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[drizzle]

thought I was posting in the other thread, sorry. :X

You know what, I've read that exact phrase countless times through the thread. I don't buy it. That shit don't fly.

Thread is clearly marked as the NO BOOK SPOILERS thread. If you have them subscribed, it's easy to tell the difference. If you don't, it's still easy and why would you be here anyway.

I'm already avoiding the thread most of the week because people can't control themselves. I won't be able to read it the day after the show aired either, it shit keeps escalating like that.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

Fellow book reader here. I would probably be hostile as well based on some of the spoilers I've seen "accidentally" posted in here.

Oh, I understand completely. Especially on this show.

But still, that guy was just saying he had been wanting to see that moment since last season... it's not like he was last week all "oh man next week's episode is gonna be great you're gonna freak out with Dany"

Ah well, I'll just shut. So far I only posted here to say who was the hottest anyways I do enjoy reading it too much to give any hint subtle as it may be.

 

[Trasher]

It's because book readers, whether they mean to or not, drop subtle hints about upcoming material.

You guys sometimes can't help yourselves. Once you have that general guideline of events it's hard not to lead people on.

This thread is for people who either haven't read the book, or people who are willing to completely separate themselves from the book and go in blind, like they would with any TV show where the source material isn't known. It's "book spoilers" vs. "no book spoilers" in terms of the threads but it's more like "book comparison thread" vs. "show-only." The problem is, even in the "show-only" thread you'll have book readers come in and offer their . informed opinion, which can sway the conversation towards spoiler and hint territory and no one really wants that.

It's not all of you, obviously. But, the reason for the split threads, and the reason for show-only peoples' discontent, are easy to understand at this point.

Your guys' biggest problem in here is people who claim to have not read the books or people who have looked up events on the internet and continue to "predict" things so they can pretend to be intelligent.

Us book readers are quite happy in the other thread, but I'm sorry if some of those people are posting vague hints or whatever in this thread. I can assure you that probably 99% of us that have read the books want to see everyone who is watching the show go unspoiled throughout this series. It's fun for us to see people's reactions as they experience the events that surprised us so much when we read them for the first time. It sort of brings us back to the good ole days!

 

[Davey Cakes]

Your guys' biggest problem in here is people who claim to have not read the books or people who have looked up events on the internet and continue to "predict" things so they can pretend to be intelligent.

I'm not even close to being like that. I barely even participate in this thread.

 

[Nose Master]

So glad the season is finally picking up. I'm allright with some quiet character moments, but that was the entirety of the first three episodes. A lot of memorable scenes in this recent ep.

EDIT: Who the fuck has Greyjoy, btw? Are we not supposed to know? Cause I don't remember him being captured in S2 at all.

 

[BobTheFork]

I don't understand the reason behind why that guy hoodwinked Theon. Did his initial plan backfire so he had to bring him back or is he just a sick fuck?

Sick as fuck, I'm sure of it. Since they have Theon on the X and are flaying him, I'm certain they are Bolton men. If your fucking house symbol is torture, you probably LOVE it.

 

[Funky Papa]

I don't understand the reason behind why that guy hoodwinked Theon. Did his initial plan backfire so he had to bring him back or is he just a sick fuck?

I'm super lost on that one.

PREVIEW SPOILERS:

Spoiler

Sick Fuck brings him back to Robb and Roose, apparently to meet the reaper. HOWEVER, I don't understand why would he need to kill a bunch of his own men just to covertly extract a confession regarding the fate of Bran and Rickon, specially considering that Theon could tell Robb right now in order to save his life (if such thing is still possible).

Also, Sick Fuck feigned surprise when the Bolton soldiers came out of the darkness. Did he really plan that out? I feel like he wanted to torture Theon and get more information just by his own, but why? Also, if that's the case I don't see the need to slip into Bolton territory. Surely he could tie Theon to a tree and torture him in the middle of the forest with a couple of rusty plyers, there's no actual need for a cross.

I feel like the show is fucking with my mind.

Edit: I'm changing his name from Creepy Douche to Sick Fuck because the actor looks so genetically predisposed to be so.

'nother edit: Aw boys, no need to run. I'm cool with book readers, I actually appreciate their corrections and insight as long as they don't go overboard. See Kilrogg's post.

 

[Trasher]

I'm not even close to being like that. I barely even participate in this thread.

I'm not calling out anyone specifically haha. I just feel like certain people's posts hit a little too close on certain things with way too little information to go on. Especially given the smaller amount of information you get in the show compared to what is given in the book.

But this is an internet forum, so I guess those sorts of things are bound to happen. My only hope here is for people to not be spoiled. =/

 

[xenist]

Your guys' biggest problem in here is people who claim to have not read the books or people who have looked up events on the internet and continue to "predict" things so they can pretend to be intelligent.

Or maybe some people have read enough books and watched enough movies to be able to semi accurately see where certain character's arcs are going. It's not like Martin's stories are that unprecedented in fiction.

Until someone actually posts a proven spoiler all this witch hunting is a huge bummer.

 

[Kiraly]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

 

[Dysun]

Or maybe some people have read enough books and watched enough movies to be able to semi accurately see where certain character's arcs are going. It's not like Martin's stories are that unprecedented in fiction.

Until someone actually posts a proven spoiler all this witch hunting is a huge bummer.

Oh we've proven it in the other thread and that poster was not banned/reprimanded and has since posted here again

 

[Funky Papa]

EatChildren said that Jamie and Cersei were villains. While, as a book reader, I disagree, as a general series fan including the TV show I ESPECIALLY disagree. If you think A Song of Ice and Fire is about good guys and bad guys I have no idea what story you've been watching. Just the other week Catelyn exposes and confronts her own disdain towards an innocent boy and she's one of the "good guys".

I also hate someone calling Jamie Lannister a coward. I just do.

He's no coward, but he's a rash cunt.

Edit: And a smelly one ATM.

 

[Trasher]

I'm super lost on that one.

PREVIEW SPOILERS:

Spoiler

Sick Fuck brings him back to Robb and Roose, apparently to meet the reaper. HOWEVER, I don't understand why would he need to kill a bunch of his own men just to covertly extract a confession regarding the fate of Bran and Rickon, specially considering that Theon could tell Robb right now in order to save his life (if such thing is still possible).

Also, Sick Fuck feigned surprise when the Bolton soldiers came out of the darkness. Did he really plan that out? I feel like he wanted to torture Theon and get more information just by his own, but why? Also, if that's the case I don't see the need to slip into Bolton territory. Surely he could tie Theon to a tree and torture him in the middle of the forest with a couple of rusty plyers, there's no actual need for a cross.

I feel like the show is fucking with my mind.

Edit: I'm changing his name from Creepy Douche to Sick Fuck because the actor looks so genetically predisposed to be so.

Did anyone else think it was a bit strange at the end of the Theon scene when he's basically yelling out for Yara, and then literally seconds later the guy lights a torch and those other dudes pretty much appear out of thin air? I just thought that scene was edited or cut strangely. Felt like those guys would have had to be nearby the whole time, yet they somehow didn't hear Theon calling for his sister.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

I really feel bad for people who see GoT as a story of "good guys versus bad guys." It's such a boring way to look at the series.

 

[ultron87]

Did anyone else think it was a bit strange at the end of the Theon scene when he's basically yelling out for Yara, and then literally seconds later the guy lights a torch and those other dudes pretty much appear out of thin air? I just thought that scene was edited or cut strangely. Felt like those guys would have had to be nearby the whole time, yet they somehow didn't hear Theon calling for his sister.

You can see those guys waiting in the background shadows when Theon and the dude first get into the room.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I wouldn't call Jaime and Cersei "villains" either. I'd save that descriptor for Tywin and Joffrey.

That said, Jaime especially needed to be knocked down a peg and, you know what? He was. Big time.

Cersei is becoming more compelling as she doesn't really approve of her current situation anymore. I'll be really surprised if I actually become sympathetic towards her eventually. Just being a Lannister makes her unlikable though, considering what that family has done.

Tyrion is a HERO.

 

[Funky Papa]

Did anyone else think it was a bit strange at the end of the Theon scene when he's basically yelling out for Yara, and then literally seconds later the guy lights a torch and those other dudes pretty much appear out of thin air? I just thought that scene was edited or cut strangely. Felt like those guys would have had to be nearby the whole time, yet they somehow didn't hear Theon calling for his sister.

They were waiting for someone to appear for sure. They either hide in the shadows when they saw them around or they were just making time until they reached them. I'm not sure if that's just poor editing or deliberate plot obscurity.

 

[TheOddOne]

I'm geeking the fuck out

I like this one better

 

[Uncle]

Edit: I'm changing his name from Creepy Douche to Sick Fuck because the actor looks so genetically predisposed to be so.

Example from Misfits (NSFW language): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQtqAXMRuyg

 

[Hystzen]

I wouldn't call Jaime and Cersei "villains" either. I'd save that descriptor for Tywin and Joffrey.

That said, Jaime especially needed to be knocked down a peg and, you know what? He was. Big time.

Cersei is becoming more compelling as she doesn't really approve of her current situation anymore. I'll be really surprised if I actually become sympathetic towards her eventually.

See i would debate that Joffrey is just a spoiled child acting out not a pure villain he just wants attention and he has all this power thrown on his lap. Plus he is also a kid the people around him are too busy grovelling to him to bother teach him how he should be ruling.

 

[spirity]

Yeah. I credit GRRM with having more smarts than that.

I'm toying with the idea that the warlocks are in cahoots with the slave trader, and this exchange (an exchange where Dany believes herself to have the upper hand), will not go quite to plan. The warlocks know about her dragons, they won't underestimate them again.

It's funny reading it back.

 

[spirity]

I like this one better

Thats a tad better, yeah

 

[Trasher]

You can see those guys waiting in the background shadows when Theon and the dude first get into the room.

Hmmm, I rewatched the episode a couple more times and specifically looked for them but still didn't see them. Weird.

They were waiting for someone to appear for sure. They either hide in the shadows when they saw them around or they were just making time until they reached them. I'm not sure if that's just poor editing or deliberate plot obscurity.

Yeah, I'm not sure either ha.

 

[ultron87]

Hmmm, I rewatched the episode a couple more times and specifically looked for them but still didn't see them. Weird.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure you could at least. Now you've got me doubting myself, lol. I'll need to go back and check.

 

[FeD.nL]

Guys did I miss something or does Benjen Stark not exist anymore? I thought they where heading beyond the wall to meet whatever was out there at the end of season 1 and to find Benjen but noone ever mentioned him since not even Jon.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Even Joffrey isn't a villain. He goes around idolizing his "father" who was never really there for him probably. When did we ever see a single scene with Robert and Joffrey sharing a good father and son moment? So, wielded with power, he acts out because he's the king dam it, and Robert wasn't a good king to begin with. Also Joffrey has been hinted as having psychological issues which are byproducts of incest relations.

At some point, just about every GoT is a victim of unfortunate circumstances. But to be a "villain", I think a character has to be morally reprehensible and capable of extreme cruelty. Joffrey fits that bill, Jaime doesn't.

 

[Trasher]

Hmm, I'm pretty sure you could at least. Now you've got me doubting myself, lol. I'll need to go back and check.

Haha you are probably right! I just couldn't see them for whatever reason.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Guys did I miss something or does Benjen Stark not exist anymore? I thought they where heading beyond the wall to meet whatever was out there at the end of season 1 and to find Benjen but noone ever mentioned him since not even Jon.

They haven't found any signs of him. So no, you haven't missed anything.

 

[-griffy-]

EDIT: Who the fuck has Greyjoy, btw? Are we not supposed to know? Cause I don't remember him being captured in S2 at all.

All we know is that his own men knocked him out at Winterfell while they were surrounded, some how Winterfell was burned to the ground, and now he's (re)captured by some people and being tortured. Anything beyond that is speculation, but we don't know who has him.

 

[Trasher]

Guys did I miss something or does Benjen Stark not exist anymore? I thought they where heading beyond the wall to meet whatever was out there at the end of season 1 and to find Benjen but noone ever mentioned him since not even Jon.

They haven't found any signs of him. So no, you haven't missed anything.

The last time I can remember Benjen being referred to was in Craster's Keep from season two. I believe the Bear asks Craster if he's heard from him.

 

[Funky Papa]

Even Joffrey isn't a villain.

Killing people just because he's the king? Check
Sending knights to their deaths for his own amusement? Check
Beating the shit out of prostitutes because he's a little wet dropping? Check
Relishing in the gruesome deaths of the former kings of Westeros? Check

King Joffrey is the worst.

It's funny reading it back.

Lol. You bring a good point, tho. Those warlocks will come back sooner or later (I bet sooner than later), probably while she's still in Essos. Which brings a potentially troublesome question regarding GoT's lore. Are there any book readers willing to help me out if I send a PM?

 

[Madness]

I really disagree that Theon is anything like Jamie at all.

One is trying to prove his worth to somebody, anybody and loses his mind in the process while the other is just trying to save his own skin most of the time.

The key moment to why anybody should feel sympathy and to pity Theon is the conversation he has with Maester Luwin when Theon has taken over Winterfell. Theon pretty much recognizes how ridiculous of a situation hes gotten himself into but also that there is no way out of it. Not even taking the black.

Theon isn't what he's trying to be and I think GRRM wants us to see that while Jamie actually is what he is.

I don't get how that's not the same thing? Jamie is now a grown man. But he was once a young man too. Theon has now just started down this path, Jamie has been there a long time.

We've seen Tywin and what kind of person he is. Now imagine Jamie having to grow up under him. Just like Theon was corrupted to 'take what is his', Jamie was probably brainwashed into believing honor and legacy are all that matters.

It's all very grey. I don't know, I think both characters are pretty villainous, but you can see how they became that way. The difference is, after seeing how he stood up for Brienne and now having lost his sword hand, how Jamie moves forward, as opposed to Theon.

I hope Theon is rescued by his sister. And I hope he turns his back on Balon and decides to atone for his mistakes.

 

[Kiraly]

Fuck Joffrey, I hope he dies a painful death soon.

Tywin was awesome as fuck this episode, such a cold-blooded man, I love him.

 

[Funky Papa]

BTW, was I the only one who fully expected Yara to be tied to the cross as soon as Sick Fuck lit up his torch?

It's all very grey. I don't know, I think both characters are pretty villainous, but you can see how they became that way. The difference is, after seeing how he stood up for Brienne and now having lost his sword hand, how Jamie moves forward, as opposed to Theon.

I hope Theon is rescued by his sister. And I hope he turns his back on Balon and decides to atone for his mistakes.

I think Theon is a whole lot more villanous than Jaime. He invaded his own, actual hometown, slaughtered a good number of its citizens and then went on to order or allow the death of at least two small children. He's crossed the line.

 

[Hystzen]

Killing people just because he's the king? Check
Sending knights to their deaths for his own amusement? Check
Beating the shit out of prostitutes because he's a little wet dropping? Check
Relishing in the gruesome deaths of the former kings of Westeros? Check

King Joffrey is the worst.

He has never been taught right from wrong just been told you be king have shit loads of power. Nobody around him stops to tell him what is right (apart from Tyrion) they just grovel or manipulate him for hope they get power later. Even Cersei is manipulative of him and gives him bad advice just so she keeps in power instead of trying to teach him.

Also the idea of psychological issues due to his parentage is an issue.

He is just being a kid playing King from what he read in books or horror stories from other people with pressure of his family name to be better then everybody else.

I'm not denying he is a lil shit (brilliant acting) but his reasons are understandable

 

[Davey Cakes]

At some point, just about every GoT is a victim of unfortunate circumstances. But to be a "villain", I think a character has to be morally reprehensible and capable of extreme cruelty. Joffrey fits that bill, Jaime doesn't.

This was kind of my line of thinking as well. Joffrey, if not "full villain" is certainly "villainous" because of his psychological issues. The kid is a sick little fucker and I don't know what he's capable of.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Well considering dragons don't have to abide by human ageing you can't really judge that.

And even then, look at Sansa then and now.

Actually in a lot of movies and fiction, Dragon grow very slowly. They live thousands of year and are very wise. But this is a different fiction in a different universe.

 

[Tacitus_]

Killing people just because he's the king? Check
Sending knights to their deaths for his own amusement? Check
Beating the shit out of prostitutes because he's a little wet dropping? Check
Relishing in the gruesome deaths of the former kings of Westeros? Check

King Joffrey is the worst.


Lol. You bring a good point, tho. Those warlocks will come back sooner or later (I bet sooner than later), probably while she's still in Essos. Which brings a potentially troublesome question regarding GoT's lore. Are there any book readers willing to help me out if I send a PM?

The thing is, Joffrey is not evil for the sake of being evil. He's a victim of the circumstances, or more to the point, of his horrible parents. Robert spent more time whoring and making bastards than raising him, while Cersei whispered all sorts of nonsense to his ears which led him to believe he's untouchable.

And you can PM me your question.

 

[-griffy-]

Hmmm, I rewatched the episode a couple more times and specifically looked for them but still didn't see them. Weird.
.

Pardon the crappy screengrab, but HBOGO wasn't cooperating. They are in the shadows in this shot, on the right of the frame. You can see their hands better than anything else. On HBO proper it was quite clear there was someone there:

They were obviously just waiting until creep dude lit the torch to ambush Theon.

 

[AuthenticM]

I really feel bad for people who see GoT as a story of "good guys versus bad guys." It's such a boring way to look at the series.

It's hard not to when the Starks (and Daenerys) are portrayed as heroic, noble and just while the Lannisters are bloodthirsty backstabbing power-hungry assholes. It's basically House Atreides vs House Harkonnen all over again.

Don't pretend the book is one big grey area; there are good characters and bad characters.

 

[Madness]

The thing is, Joffrey is not evil for the sake of being evil. He's a victim of the circumstances, or more to the point, of his horrible parents. Robert spent more time whoring and making bastards than raising him, while Cersei whispered all sorts of nonsense to his ears which led him to believe he's untouchable.

And you can PM me your question.

The argument falls flat because his other siblings aren't like it. Joffrey is like a serial killer from a small age. How is Cersei a horrible parent? From what I've seen, she is the exact opposite of Tywin when it comes to kids. She's given her love to them and cares for them.

What nonsense did Cersei whisper? That he's a king and he should be strong and fierce?

Joffrey is cruel, he takes delight in the pain of others, he doesn't feel remorse for his actions. He was going to kill Arya with a sword, he beheaded Ned Stark, he had Sansa beat in front of everyone, he didn't care if she was raped, he ordered his kingsguard to kill all the citizens because they flung dung at him etc.

No grey area for Joffrey, he's a monster, not a victim.
Look how he made those those prostitutes abuse each other while he watched. Just sickening.

 

[MBison]

Thanks for "calling out" my spontaneously happy reaction that I wanted to share, pal. I didn't say anything about the books. Obviously I would never discuss any plot stuff in this thread.

From my understanding, this thread should be treated as if this story is completely an original tv production.

 

[Trasher]

Pardon the crappy screengrab, but HBOGO wasn't cooperating. They are in the shadows in this shot, on the right of the frame. You can see their hands better than anything else. On HBO proper it was quite clear there was someone there:


They were obviously just waiting until creep dude lit the torch to ambush Theon.

lol I still can't see anything!

 

[sammyCYBORG]

Pardon the crappy screengrab, but HBOGO wasn't cooperating. They are in the shadows in this shot, on the right of the frame. You can see their hands better than anything else. On HBO proper it was quite clear there was someone there:

They were obviously just waiting until creep dude lit the torch to ambush Theon.

Yup, I noticed them too, the were really clear behind Theon. When the touture cross was shown again it was so dramatic. Wonderful execution.

 

[Violet_0]

I think Theon is a whole lot more villanous than Jaime. He invaded his own, actual hometown, slaughtered a good number of its citizens and then went on to order or allow the death of at least two small children. He's crossed the line.

he's only directly responsible for 3 deaths - the knight that just wouldn't should up, and the two children (which wasn't his idea to begin with, iirc). And he always immediately regretted it afterwards. I always said he's really a nice guy in his heart when everyone else was screaming for his death in the season 2 thread

 

[Funky Papa]

Pardon the crappy screengrab, but HBOGO wasn't cooperating. They are in the shadows in this shot, on the right of the frame. You can see their hands better than anything else. On HBO proper it was quite clear there was someone there:


They were obviously just waiting until creep dude lit the torch to ambush Theon.

I increased the brightness to make it more clear.

Dat HBO macroblocking.

 

[Vashetti]

Just rewatching the episode now and realised that all Tywin has done this season has sat down, wrote and stamped letters, and berated everyone.

It's been great.

 

[Madness]

Just rewatching the episode now and realised that all Tywin has done this season has sat down, wrote and stamped letters, and berated everyone.

It's been great.

And last season he sat down, discussed battle tactics and berated his council and discussed Westerosi intricacies with Arya and it was amazing.

He's such a great actor. I can't believe I'll remember him forever as Tywin and not the villain from golden child or Last Action Hero.

I hope he puts Joffrey in his place. I can't wait for it, after he said he will stop him from doing what he likes. If anyone can it's Tywin.

 

[MBison]

One of the cornerstones of WHY ASOIAF is so popular is because it characterizes in greys. Right now on the show we have North men who have characterized as "the good guys" about to rape and kill an innocent woman, as well as being needlessly cruel to the point of disgust to Jamie. Not all people are honorable . Catelyn for instance hates Tyrion BECAUSE he's a Lannister. He's a Lannister and a dwarf so he MUST be evil and a villain. Right?

Good job missing the point of the story Eat Children. You're better than that.

Why are you lecturing tv only viewers how they should enjoy a tv show?

 

[spirity]

I loved the scene where he was skinning a deer, talking to Jamie. Series 2?