But Cersei admires her father (or at least admired) and loathes Tyrion.
Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
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But Cersei admires her father (or at least admired) and loathes Tyrion.
AuthenticM
Member
He hasn't really been acting like an informant though. He seems genuinely infatuated with Khaleesi. I doubt he'll betray her; especially now since Robert is dead.
yeah, I'd rather be backstabbing my father than marry Sansa too
If that ever happens it's going to break my heart.
Jorah so clearly has come to adore her. And she wouldn't be where she is now without him.
I was hoping she would come to love him too.
I hope she forgives him if it ever comes out. He did save her life multiple times.
Wow, you really missed it, then, dude. We're not talking about being an informant now.
He was an informant in the beginning, but he obviously went back on that. He was holding a congratulations on your freedom to come back type paper when Dany was about to be assassinated by that wine vendor guy. That was his big decision. Throw away his freedom or help her until the end. He tossed that freedom to come home and stopped the plot on her that he had helped even happen in the first place.
So, obviously he hasn't been acting like an informant, because he isn't anymore. He threw that away back in season 1.
I feel bad for those that missed it, because the reveal was pretty interesting, and then the decision was pretty powerful for his character, I thought. It showed him forsaking his home and going all in for her.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Excellent episode. Man, Season 3 is knocking it out of the park. It's still scattered like Season 2 (a situation that won't ever be resolved, I don't think), but it's more like Season 1 in that serious shit is happening every single episode.
Damn good television!
EDIT: I think Jorah has chosen his loyalty to Daenerys, as yeah, he had the chance to see through her assassination and buy his freedom back to the seven kingdoms and passed it up. I don't think they've dropped anymore hints of him feeding the council information either. He's probably gone dark.
Well, the series is called A Song of Ice and Fire
.
Damn good television!
EDIT: I think Jorah has chosen his loyalty to Daenerys, as yeah, he had the chance to see through her assassination and buy his freedom back to the seven kingdoms and passed it up. I don't think they've dropped anymore hints of him feeding the council information either. He's probably gone dark.
Well, the series is called A Song of Ice and Fire
.tycoonheart
Member
Does anyone believe Jamie's story though? The guy is a grade A manipulator. My first thought was that he is lying just so he can gain Brienne's sympathy.
Unreciprocated love is a bitch. Even if he didn't get to be with her he was the only one there for her. Her only councilor. Now there's Ser Barristan. And both Missandei and Grey Worm seem to be heading that way too. It won't be the first time that adoration turns into jealousy then resentment and finally betrayal.
Joel Was Right
Member
Me too but we've seen more of Jamie this season. It wouldn't surprise me if he is a more complicated character than what we originally assumed, and that his story is actually true
What do you mean by scattered?
I don't think he was in the right mental condition to spin out a story like this
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
When has Jaime shown himself to be a master manipulator? If anything he's the one constantly getting manipulated by others.
I believe it. It makes a lot of sense. The king was damned mad, and everyone else has already talked about how he wanted to burn everything. The story didn't really come out of nowhere, either. That's always kind of how I assumed it went. He had to choose between serving a mad idiot who wanted to burn everyone and the realm as a whole, which was closing in on him and his mad idiot anyway. I'm sure there was a bit more selfishness to the decision than he would realistically let on in a conversation like that, but generally that's probably about how it happened.
The thing is, too, that he doesn't need to lie to get her sympathy. He doesn't even need her sympathy. He trusts in her loyalty to her oath. He could be a giant fuckhead to her, and she's still have to try and get him to king's landing. He knows that.
I get the feeling he's genuinely sympathizing with her at points. He still can't help throwing out some stupid jabs sometimes, but he's getting there.
fifasnipe2224
Member
Is this now two episodes in a row with our Bronn? Damn it!
Also I bet Shae is going to flip out when she finds out about the marriage. Especially after Tyrion called Sansa 'a great beauty with an old name.'
Also I bet Shae is going to flip out when she finds out about the marriage. Especially after Tyrion called Sansa 'a great beauty with an old name.'
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Lots and lots of characters to follow, each on separate missions and often in separate parts of the continent. The first season, and the first book (to my knowledge), has the same tight narrative that made something like The Fellowship of the Ring so good. Very focused on a centerpiece character (eg: The Ring / Ned Stark), many characters sharing the same space, and not a lot of separation. So when the story is telling the perspective of one person, it almost always intertwines with another, and then yet another.
Now there's a greater diversity of plot threads as characters are spread out, and going on their own adventures, some of which aren't tightly tied the more significant plot threads of others.
It's not a bad thing mind you, just an observation, especially in how a story is told through cinema/television. You get a "scattered" quality where a character and their will only show up and develop briefly in a single episode, or may not show up at all, as the series tries to cover so much ground.
Season 2 I felt was not only like this, but also a little less interesting. I still loved it, but the pacing was slower, mostly building up towards Blackwater Bay. Season 3, so far, is a bit more like Season 1 mixed with Season 2's scattering. Everyone is still separated, as expected, but each episode is a bit more punchy in what it delivers. Season 2 seemed a lot more about exposition and fleshing out a bit more of what we already know, with some drip fed core narrative here and there. Season 3 seems to be more about actually moving characters forward in significant ways, whether it be through their accomplishments, or simply personal struggles.
I don't think she will. Okay, maybe initially. But I also think she has a desire to protect Sansa, and would ultimately see the potential benefits of Tyrion acting as her husband/caretaker.
Grade A manipulator? He's tricked maybe 2 people
I see. Obviously I can't go into details on what's to come here, but it kinda ebbs and flows. S3 should prove to be very dense, though with scattered storylines like you said.
We were shown the massive caches of wildfire under the city last season. Tyrion had some of it used at the Battle of the Blackwater.
tycoonheart
Member
True, I shouldn't have said masterful manipulator. Still, I don't put it past Jamie to lie to gain someone's trust.
Definitely. But they were all stored in one location. Jamie said the king had wildfire under the city in numerous locations.
Plus the pyromancer that Tyrion visited said he had made all those at his sister's request, no?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Cersei was obv a bad influence on jaimie. Being around her does nobody any favours.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The issue to me with Jamie isn't that I think he's lying, it's where his loyalty and devotion really sits. I think his retelling of the overthrowing of the Mad King was completely accurate, and honest from his perspective. The Batshit Insane King was going to burn an entire city and all its civilians to the ground in some sick, warped climax to however many years worth of murderous paranoia. He was insane and for the good of everybody everywhere needed to go, and Jamie saw that.
But Jamie is also fiercely loyal to House Lannister. It's not always black and white, he has other loyalties and duties he respects and honours, but when under pressure or when left with only two options, where will his loyalty fall? Even with his recount of the Mad King, there's that variable of his father and House Lannister rebelling. And he did, ultimately, side with them.
So no, I don't think he was manipulating Brienne, and I don't think he was recounting events via lies. But if Brienne got in the way of him and House Lannister, things may...change.
But Jamie is also fiercely loyal to House Lannister. It's not always black and white, he has other loyalties and duties he respects and honours, but when under pressure or when left with only two options, where will his loyalty fall? Even with his recount of the Mad King, there's that variable of his father and House Lannister rebelling. And he did, ultimately, side with them.
So no, I don't think he was manipulating Brienne, and I don't think he was recounting events via lies. But if Brienne got in the way of him and House Lannister, things may...change.
Good observation. The source material is the same in that regard.
I hope that he's not lying. I think it's good we gain more sympathy and respect for characters that were once thought villains, it makes them more interesting.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
They didn't cover two of the major twists last week! The nightswatch going Cray and theon! Also what's going on with Bren!
Well I finally managed to marathon every episode up through 5 and thus far season 3 has been fucking great. It's funny, I've never read the books but once Rob captured Jamie I'd always just thought to myself "Why doesn't he just cut off Jamie's sword hand? He's still alive and wouldn't be able to fight back nearly as well." Of course, Rob probably didn't want to risk the Lannisters harming Sansa - which they likely would have if they'd discovered that he'd mutilated Jamie. So that was a pretty big surprise when it happened.
By the way, all of the child actors are starting to hit puberty at once and it's weirding me out, Bran in particular. Sansa also looks like she's about seven feet tall now.
By the way, all of the child actors are starting to hit puberty at once and it's weirding me out, Bran in particular. Sansa also looks like she's about seven feet tall now.
blainethemono
Member
Re: the Jaime conversation - Go back and check out some of Jaime's scenes from season 1 and 2, especially this one about vows
http://youtu.be/DpD47mmlei4
And the one from season 1 where Robert and Barristan are talking about their first kills. Can't find the clip, but Robert basically asks Jaime what the Mad King said before Jaime stabbed him in the back and Jaime replies "The same thing he'd been saying for hours - 'Burn them all.'"
edit - https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=q6GW03WsFgU#t=224s
http://youtu.be/DpD47mmlei4
And the one from season 1 where Robert and Barristan are talking about their first kills. Can't find the clip, but Robert basically asks Jaime what the Mad King said before Jaime stabbed him in the back and Jaime replies "The same thing he'd been saying for hours - 'Burn them all.'"
edit - https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=q6GW03WsFgU#t=224s
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Robb gave Harrenhal to Roose Bolton to occupy while they went to Riverrun.
I get the feeling this one is going to be a slow-burner.
The guy who led him in a loop back to captivity seems like a nutter. I can't see any way out for Theon since no one on the show seems to give two shits about him.
I assume they didn't show him this week because any more torture scenes and they'd start to lose their weight. It could become gratuitous seeing him being abused every episode.
Good scene. Goes hand in hand with the bath scene.
Possibly Varys, since he does everything for the realm. If my side was for the realm I'd have him there. Baelish is a guy who would stab you in the back at some point for his own gain. At least if Varys stabbed you in the back it would be for the good of everyone, so you could at least kind of predict when he might do that.
I'd rather have Varys om my side. First, he's not likely to backstab me. At least less likely than certain. Second, Varys and Baelish go for different types of power. Varys for soft, discreet power. Baelish for titles, lands and armies.
Varys, easily. As for who is more powerful, I'd say both are at about the same level
Varys - definitely.
He's infinitely more likeable than Baelish.
Whilst Varys obviously has shady dealings (as does Baelish), I feel he does what he does with good intent.
Baelish just seems like a mischief maker who would kill his best friend for personal gain.
I read that as 'titties' and wasn't going to correct you.
I have to agree with the choice of Varys. The reason I asked was that I posed the question in the office and most people picked Baelish since many of my co-workers thought Varys was more evil and gross.
Whatever happened to Pycelle? It was intriguing in the previous seasons to watch him interact with Baelish and Varys.
Whatever happened to Pycelle? It was intriguing in the previous seasons to watch him interact with Baelish and Varys.
?
so far only Carcetti was portrayed as an evil, backstabbing (but nonetheless likeable!) bastard
You must work with some pretty shady people.
I'm pretty sure Robb hurt his hand while killing Rickard Karstark...
Two takes focus on his hand right after he killed him. Would that be the Curse? Get his hand screwed up so he can't fight?
I found it strange that we didn't get anything about it on the next scene with the Foreign Lady.
I wonder if the hand zooming was supposed to have other effect that I didn't get, for instance, to show his anger...
Two takes focus on his hand right after he killed him. Would that be the Curse? Get his hand screwed up so he can't fight?
I found it strange that we didn't get anything about it on the next scene with the Foreign Lady.
I wonder if the hand zooming was supposed to have other effect that I didn't get, for instance, to show his anger...
Varys for sure. Baelish screwed the Iron Throne over when he was the Master of Coin, he just ran up debts to keep everyone happy and planning his escape before the Iron Bank came calling.
Hah! I think Varys probably is disgusting to them since he had his manbits cut off, often never reveals his true motivations (at one point he tells llyrio Mopatis that he supports civil war so Khal Drogo can invade and then goes to Robert to support killing Dany) and is more mysterious than Baelish. Baelish's motivations are often easier to figure out and understand.
I didn't notice any strange focus on his hand beyond natural editing for the moment. I think you are over-reading the scene.
Forsaken82
Member
He is referring to a moment where Robb rubs his hand following the beheading.
But I agree about over-reading the scene. I think it was more nerves/adrenaline than anything else. The entire ordeal shook him up.
Exactly, it didn't seem like a focus on his hand being injured, but what you describe.
I liked the cut to Dany and her army as the little girl was telling Devos about the Targarian lineage. It conveyed a sense that she's really the only true hope they all have for survival.. what with her dragons and all.
Maybe one of you meddlesome book readers could answer this. Before the mad king, were the people of Westeros happy with the Targaryans? The show implies, quite strongly, that times were good, and they were loved.
Maybe one of you meddlesome book readers could answer this. Before the mad king, were the people of Westeros happy with the Targaryans? The show implies, quite strongly, that times were good, and they were loved.
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
Generally yeah, but mostly, the common folk couldn't care less about who is on the throne as long as there's peace.
(I didn't think that was a spoiler but if people want I'll tag it)
Things were alright. There will always be strife, such as the (spoilers for something that is only mentioned in the main books but something that occurs during the prequel Dunk & Egg novellas)
Blackfyre rebellions
I'm not a book reader, but I remember some of the extras on Season 2 went into this. I'm pretty sure before the mad king they were pretty much loved by all, and times were pretty good.
That may have been stated during one of the things focusing on the Tyrells, though, so there could be a bit of bias since they were so favored by the Targaryens.
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