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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

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Brashnir

Member
Um...lots of people don't enjoy watching sex scenes around certain company. That doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.

I'll give you an example. My mother loves Game of Thrones. Whenever I'm over, we'll watch the show. She also watches the show by herself in its entirety. As do I.

She does not however enjoy watching the brothel scenes with me.

Plenty of people shy away from such shows for reasons other than "sexual issues" or values/religion. It's just a personal taste.

My father doesn't like suspenseful, violent shows because he likes lighter, comedic fare.

And that's all fine. But there's a difference between not liking it for yourself and taking issue with someone else watching it on their own. The original question was, "Would u guys date a girl who doesn't like u watching porn or sex scenes on tv shows and movies?"

It's not about what they want to do for themselves, but imposing that upon others that is the issue.
 

Speevy

Banned
The director must be blind if he thought that looked consensual. In any case, it was an awkward scene, and kinda forgot about it by the end.

The scene that stuck out to me is how Ygritte shot that man through the head for making fun of his wife's cooking.

She was like "Yeh now nowthin' bout' tatoes, cruh."
 

Alpende

Member
I liked the episode, the scene where Darioo murders that dude was pretty cool. Simple and easy. The Onion Knight trying to get some sort of loan from the Iron Bank is interesting, I wonder how that plays out.

I'm starting to like Oberyn, he's got that smug face of his and he can say and do pretty much all he wants. Especially after Tywin needs him. Tywin straight up insulting Joffrey in front of Cercei was amazing.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Funny the conversation of watching sex scenes with parents came up. I'm visiting my folks for easter, and have only just got my mum into Game of Thrones. She's somehow remained relatively unspoiled after all this time. She's on to the last episode, last night watching the infamous Littlefinger sexposition scene. Once upon a time it might have been awkward, but eh. I think she feels it's more silly excessive than awkward or embarrassing. I had no problem being in the same room.

Today she watched Ned lose his head. I guess I kinda know how the book readers feel now.
 

Nameless

Member
The issues with the plotting of Daenerys' storyline is less relating to the logistics of it so much as it is the practicality of events. Daenerys, unlike the other majority of other characters, has little effect on any of the other primary characters right now, nor has she since the first season, where we had three extremely prominent, different characters in the form of her, Viserys, and Khal Drogo in her proximity, all with different dynamics to one another. Since then, we've had a rather one-note story, which is completely in line with her character but isn't, to me, rather compelling, and makes it feel static. Those she interacts with have similar power dynamics and interactions towards her (Daario, Selmy, Jorah, Grey Worm) even if there are some differentiating features, and there isn't enough time available to flesh out the story more thoroughly and explore different facets of her role as leader. Given her limited interaction with a wide range of other well-developed, different characters she's left to stand on the strengths of her character but she doesn't have the complexity, nor the time, to be particularly compelling alone.

If we take others such as Cersei for example, regardless of whether you are somebody who enjoys or dislikes the character, the variety of her interactions with others are quite dynamic, from her and Ned Stark, her and Jamie, her and Joffrey, and her and Robert in season one, to the current interactions with her family and the Tyrells, it's interesting to see how the character reacts to the constantly shifting power dynamics brought about by changes within the world, and this helps to develop her character further as we see these interactions. Daenerys is really missing such a variety of encounters, season one a notable exception where she had a compelling arc with Drogo and grew notably as a character. Since then she has been developing but it's all been in the same direction on the same points (and this is why I firmly believe she's going to end up with immoral eventually, given how much they're pushing her in this direction), with similar obstacles opposing her, interacting with characters who have similar viewpoints and rarely interact with each other, without having much impact on the primary cast (perhaps this is changing given how it's affected Tyrion in relation to Oberyn but I must confess it doesn't seem so unless Daenerys will head to Westeros after Meereen). Her story has more than enough material to make it compelling, but it feels like a spin-off inside the main show at the moment, and this is holding it back as it doesn't have enough time to delve into deeper topicoks to make it more engaging, for myself at least.

In short, the complaints relating to Daenerys is that her arc feels rather static, one-note, inconsequential (in the journey, I think everybody's in agreement that she will be a major player at some point in the future), and repetitive in nature, not that the actions she's doing are unnecessary, illogical or nonsensical. Perhaps others see it differently (and I know I've commented very similarly awhile back, but I just hope this better clarifies what may be the reason for such complaints, even if you disagree).

EDIT: Also, Jamie raping Cersei at their dead son's wake (or that's what it seemed to be, not sure what the ceremony is called in Westeros) was not something I expected given how Jamie's arc had been going. I'm curious about the motivation. Love mixed with hostility for her suggestion to kill Tyrion? Love mixed with hostility over her unwillingness to sleep with him prior to then? Or is it another aspect I'm ignoring? I'm not really clear why he did that. I can understand why he'd want to continue sleeping with her, having been returned to the family, and his love, after an ordeal, but this, in that location, had me stumped honestly.


While I agree with many of your points I disagree that they should necessarily be looked upon as negatives. True, her narrative lacks the political maneuvering, moral complexities, and much of the scamming, scheming, and underlying treachery that surrounds the main story and its players. No, her interactions usually don't lead to her engaging in the sort of rhetorical dances where viewers must parse truth from lie and gauge ulterior motives. That aspect of the story is great, I'd even argue that's where the show shines, but I don't fault those characters detached or divorced from it. Though this is a universe dominated by various shades of gray she's exists in an ever expanding vacuum of black and white. Her motives are clear and just. The characters around her are absolutely loyal and bend to her will completely. That she follows more of a traditional hero's journey is precisely what distinguishes her from everyone else in the story. It causes her, from my perspective, to come across as profoundly special and Christ like-- above the typical machinations of 'the climb'.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Just chiming in to say that I *love* Meereen. Concept artists have been doing a pretty good job with every city state, but Meereen has a very Summerian look that looks just right. It feels somewhat familiar, yet alien and incredibly ancient at the same time. Other shows would have just turned it into another moorish looking enclave and leave it at that. I also liked the details that it's not just another city state in the middle of a huge desert, but built into what looks like a somewhat fertile part of Essos, more Mediterranean than Saharian.
 

NetMapel

Guilty White Male Mods Gave Me This Tag
While I agree with many of your points I disagree that they should necessarily be looked upon as negatives. True, her narrative lacks the political maneuvering, moral complexities, and much of the scamming, scheming, and underlying treachery that surrounds the main story and its players. No, her interactions usually don't lead to her engaging in the sort of rhetorical dances where viewers must parse truth from lie and gauge ulterior motives. That aspect of the story is great, I'd even argue that's where the show shines, but I don't fault those characters detached or divorced from it. Though this is a universe dominated by various shades of gray she's exists in an ever expanding vacuum of black and white. Her motives are clear and just. The characters around her are absolutely loyal and bend to her will completely. That she follows more of a traditional hero's journey is precisely what distinguishes her from everyone else in the story. It causes her, from my perspective, to come across as profoundly special and Christ like-- above the typical machinations of 'the climb'.

I rather agree that I like the "break" from all the scheming in Westeros. When her scene comes up, it's just pure dragon epicness and so on. I rather like her contrast from all the "grey" characters in Westeros. She seems like an unstoppable force at where she is versus all the fighting going on in Westeros.
 

Nerokis

Member
Director Alex Graves

The scene he filmed looks so rapey, particularly by the end, that I'm dumbfounded by his interpretation.

It's a conflicted moment, where Jaime most definitely forces himself upon Cersei, but at the same time there are scattered moments of reciprocation (Cersei does kiss him back rather passionately, wraps her legs around him, etc. - that's not Graves' "interpretation"). And I think Graves is overreacting to the discussion surrounding it, and in doing so, underemphasizing the former thing and overemphasizing that latter thing.

Jaime is an very flawed character, and that's always been clear. That's partly what makes him and so many other characters as interesting as they are. In this case, he gave into his lust, frustration, and whatever else he's feeling after all he's been through, and we witnessed an example of how low he's capable of falling. But in the same sense the characters are nice and complex, Jaime and Cersei's relationship is also complex, and the moment itself was complex. Both Jaime and Cersei have gone through an incredible amount, and the moment that just manifested is certainly one that looks very dark and twisted, and that's precisely because it is.

And generally, it's a little harder to have a concrete conversation about rape in the context of a television show. Defining "consensual" as "both sides wanting it" doesn't really work, because there are many things that go into someone's overall willingness to engage in sexual acts, and Cersei desiring and getting pleasure from Jaime doesn't equate to consensuality. So no, I don't think the sex scene was supposed to seem consensual. However, it was definitely supposed to show the passion between them, their desire for each other, their weakness for one another, their mutual dependence. It's difficult to associate rape with nuance, because yes, rape is rape. Nuance is also a difficult thing to wave away, though, and Cersei and Jaime's situation is uniquely full of grey, along with all the dark.

That you can't easily read the scene, that there isn't an obvious takeaway, or even that it looks "rapey" doesn't really strike me as a failure of the show. It's supposed to be uncomfortable. It's supposed to be conflicted.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
In what way? Trying to contain yourself and not giving everything away? Or waiting in giddy anticipation over what's coming and checking to see your mom's reactions?

The latter. I've watched all of season one again with her. Great seeing how the story is connected in retrospect, the little hints dropped that are tied up in later seasons. The series as a whole is just so dense. She really liked Ned. She knew he was in a rough spot and expected something bad was going to happen, but didn't expect him to die. She wasn't too happy when he did :p.
 
I converted a new fan today. She watched season 1 over the weekend and loved it. Bawled like a baby when Ned died, she said. The same for Drogo. Hates Joffrey (but she does know he dies, not sure if she knows about the Red Wedding thoguh). Likes Arya and Bran. Doesn't really like Catelyn from some of her decisions. Didn't find it confusing at all with the thick lore, but her husband probably helped out (he was the one trying to convince her to watch the show and a few workmates and I put her over the edge).
 

Vashetti

Banned
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see that Jaime/Cersei scene modified for the Blu-ray release, a "director's cut", if you will.
 

demolitio

Member
Just chiming in to say that I *love* Meereen. Concept artists have been doing a pretty good job with every city state, but Meereen has a very Summerian look that looks just right. It feels somewhat familiar, yet alien and incredibly ancient at the same time. Other shows would have just turned it into another moorish looking enclave and leave it at that. I also liked the details that it's not just another city state in the middle of a huge desert, but built into what looks like a somewhat fertile part of Essos, more Mediterranean than Saharian.

Yea, the scenery there is pretty impressive with the CG being really surprising for a show. It's a shame we probably won't see the inside of it or if we do, it will be in a state of chaos.

Speaking of which, I can't wait until we see Braavos since they made it sound so impressive. I'm assuming we'll see it at some point, whether it be the Iron Bank plotline with Stannis or Arya seeking out Jaqen(?). Hell, maybe Dany goes there eventually whenever she's close to crossing back to Westeros.

It just sounds too awesome not to be seen at some point.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Yea, the scenery there is pretty impressive with the CG being really surprising for a show. It's a shame we probably won't see the inside of it or if we do, it will be in a state of chaos.

Speaking of which, I can't wait until we see Braavos since they made it sound so impressive. I'm assuming we'll see it at some point, whether it be the Iron Bank plotline with Stannis or Arya seeking out Jaqen(?). Hell, maybe Dany goes there eventually whenever she's close to crossing back to Westeros.

It just sounds too awesome not to be seen at some point.

Hey, not related to your post; but I'm not sure if you caught my apology in the thread earlier regarding me being rude to you.

So I'm sorry and take back what I said, you were right about Littlefinger's involvement :)
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
My GF isn't really invested in GoT as I am and I was forced to explain the Jaime-Cersei scene to her, which was awkward as fuck. Yes, he's raping her next to the table where Joffrey is lying dead. No he's not her husband, he's her brother. No, fullblood, same father, same mother. Yes, Joffrey is her son. And his son as well. Well, all things considered, Tyrion is the least fucked up one.
 

Alpende

Member
My GF isn't really invested in GoT as I am and I was forced to explain the Jaime-Cersei scene to her, which was awkward as fuck. Yes, he's raping her next to the table where Joffrey is lying dead. No he's not her husband, he's her brother. No, fullblood, same father, same mother. Yes, Joffrey is her son. And his son as well. Well, all things considered, Tyrion is the least fucked up one.

According to the director(?) of the episode, Jaime wasn't raping her but it was consensual. Didn't look consesual to me though.
 

demolitio

Member
Hey, not related to your post; but I'm not sure if you caught my apology in the thread earlier regarding me being rude to you.

So I'm sorry and take back what I said, you were right about Littlefinger's involvement :)

No problem.

I like to analyze the show not just from the plots in the show's universe, but also from a story-telling perspective and with those two combined, I REALLY thought Littlefinger was involved. The scenes in the past about what his goals were and how he plays the game, recent events, plus his absence from the show just made me feel like he had to be involved in some way. If I was wrong, oh well as it wouldn't be the first time (Red Wedding anyone?). I just like trying to pick up on the hints the show gives you and picking them apart.

Actually, I've been occasionally mentioning a character who I think dies soon for both foreshadowing reasons and story-telling reasons, especially after the wedding episode but I was a little put off by the book reader comments so I've been afraid to dive too deep into it.

I just like discussing this show and trying to figure things out for better or worse and it helps that I have a lot of time on my hands and a very analytical brain. Didn't mean to get a little heated either as the book reader comment annoyed me seeing as we were just talking about why some of us didn't read the books a few pages earlier and I don't plan to read them as I'm too invested in the show now and love trying to pick up on the clues they give us. To me, that's what the show has impressed me the most over as I never expected to see so many clues when re-watching old seasons basically making me pay attention to each scene now in every episode I watch.

So far, I only know one spoiler thanks to a friend and it's something I'll never discuss or act like it's a great discovery (hell, I don't think I could pull that off) and I don't know the timeframe for it, but I'm pissed to know it and would never do it to anyone else. I love speculating and wouldn't want to ruin it for other people.

No hard feelings either way. We both clearly enjoy the show. Like I said above, I'm actually afraid of my other prediction simply because if it does turn out to be true, I'd probably have a few people looking at me funny but I'm pretty sure it's something that will happen, just don't know the details.
 

UrbanRats

Member
Just chiming in to say that I *love* Meereen. Concept artists have been doing a pretty good job with every city state, but Meereen has a very Summerian look that looks just right. It feels somewhat familiar, yet alien and incredibly ancient at the same time. Other shows would have just turned it into another moorish looking enclave and leave it at that. I also liked the details that it's not just another city state in the middle of a huge desert, but built into what looks like a somewhat fertile part of Essos, more Mediterranean than Saharian.

I agree.
When there's the shot of her on the horse in front of it, i wished the whole show would take place there, instead of King's Landing.
 

Steiner84

All 26 hours. Multiple times.
can we get the fuck over the sex Scene allready?
And yes, sex Scene. not rape Scene.
Ist obvious she wants it
 

Vashetti

Banned
can we get the fuck over the sex Scene allready?
And yes, sex Scene. not rape Scene.
Ist obvious she wants it

Uh oh

mp5RmrI.gif
 
I'm a little late in regards to the whole 'rape' scene but figured I would just post my thoughts.

For me personally I took the scene as the director intended when watching it and saw it as just another example of the twisted relationship of Jaime-Cersei.

Think of what's happened in the last season, Jamie gets kidnapped, has his hand cut off and then finally manages to get back to Kings landing. Now because of his injury he is treated like crap from not only his father but also his sister/lover who has really treated him horribly and even recoils in disgust at his gold hand. She no longer saw him as a man and lost all interest in him, funnily enough until she realised that Brienne has feelings for Jaime and suddenly became jealous.

Now what I took from the scene was that Jaime was basically showing Cersai that he is still a man and that she can't just force him away from her. He was trying to be there for her in a tragic time but since being back she has dismissed him outright. Now of course the scene does start of looking very much like rape but as some have said Cersai's choice of words is key "Not here" meaning the problem wasn’t them having sex but because they were right next to their dead child. Now before anyone goes mad this is in no way me saying 'no means yes' or anything like that, just that in the confines of this show's world and Jaime and Cersai's twisted relationship and the power games they play this isn't as cut and dry as it would be for any normal person.

I think what would really have helped the scene get this across to all the people who took it as a straight up rape scene would to have cersai audibly show she was reciprocating his advances to help show that she was actually into it by the end. Of course I'm sure that would still have not been enough for some who would have taken the scene badly and people would have still pointed out that she told him no at first which means anything beyond is rape but this is Game of Thrones where the same rules of morality and relationships don’t apply to our own.
 

kubus

Member
Can anyone recap what happened to Gendry? I remember that someone sent him off on a boat after the leeches thing but was it ever mentioned where he was headed?

Because I could swear I saw him as one of the slaves in that city where Dany is now (Mereen? Can't remember the name). I'm afraid of googling his name/comparison pictures because of spoilers but my boyfriend and I immediately exclaimed "omg it's Gendry!" when they showed those slaves. Might just be a random actor who looks like him, though.

Talking about this shot.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Can anyone recap what happened to Gendry? I remember that someone sent him off on a boat after the leeches thing but was it ever mentioned where he was headed?

Because I could swear I saw him as one of the slaves in that city where Dany is now (Mereen? Can't remember the name). I'm afraid of googling his name because of spoilers but my boyfriend and I immediately exclaimed "omg it's Gendry!" when they showed those slaves. Might just be a random actor who looks like him, though.

Talking about this shot.

That isn't Gendry.

Davos freed him, put him in a boat and told him to head for King's Landing.
 

kubus

Member
That isn't Gendry.

Davos freed him, put him in a boat and told him to head for King's Landing.
Lol ok. That basically rules him out then.

Aww, too bad. I was excited for a moment, I liked Gendry. Hope he's still alive and we'll see him again.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Lol ok. That basically rules him out then.

Aww, too bad. I was excited for a moment, I liked Gendry. Hope he's still alive and we'll see him again.

We also have to remember that Gendry has never been in a boat before and doesn't know how to swim, lol
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Another Old Daario stan here.

I'm not familiar with the book character, but he had a smarmy quality that made him different from everybody else in Danny's entourage. Nu Daario is just another hunk of meat.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Another Old Daario stan here.

I'm not familiar with the book character, but he had a smarmy quality that made him different from everybody else in Danny's entourage. Nu Daario is just another hunk of meat.

Agreed.

I am growing to like NewDaario though.

I imagine OldDaario would have slayed that pissing on the floor scene.
 
The latter. I've watched all of season one again with her. Great seeing how the story is connected in retrospect, the little hints dropped that are tied up in later seasons. The series as a whole is just so dense. She really liked Ned. She knew he was in a rough spot and expected something bad was going to happen, but didn't expect him to die. She wasn't too happy when he did :p.

How do you think she will take the red wedding?
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
BTW, did anybody else notice that Kit Harington *gasp* tried his best to act instead of just looking pretty and staying there? I'm enjoying the new and improved Jon Snow considerably more than in the previous seasons. Seems like the poor guy just needed to moist his noodle.
 

Vashetti

Banned
BTW, did anybody else notice that Kit Harington *gasp* tried his best to act instead of just looking pretty and staying there? I'm enjoying the new and improved Jon Snow considerably more than in the previous seasons. Seems like the poor guy just needed to moist his noodle.

The writing for his character and his acting is much tighter this season. It's very noticeable.
 

Akainu

Member
can we get the fuck over the sex Scene allready?
And yes, sex Scene. not rape Scene.
Ist obvious she wants it

I have to agree there are parts where she is clearly holding his face close but then she keeps remembering her dead son so it's weird even for her.
 

Ovid

Member
BTW, did anybody else notice that Kit Harington *gasp* tried his best to act instead of just looking pretty and staying there? I'm enjoying the new and improved Jon Snow considerably more than in the previous seasons. Seems like the poor guy just needed to moist his noodle.
Me too. He looks like a leader that gives no fucks now.

Lol ok. That basically rules him out then.

Aww, too bad. I was excited for a moment, I liked Gendry. Hope he's still alive and we'll see him again.
I wonder. Ser Davos mentioned something about spilling "bastard blood" to Stanis. Does that mean he's dead?
 
Okay I'll just go by Graves' comments. I am actually glad that he's standing by the scene. He does highlight that there enough going on that makes the sex consensual (in his opinion) if you read every single action that happens on screen. He does highlight the psychological element, and the element of danger and aggression in their relationship. And that works for me. My initial reading of the scene was an awkward, disturbing (but consensual) moment between two damaged, complex characters. Yeah they're fucked up, and how they express their feelings toward each other is just as twisted.

The last thing I would want is for the show to start censoring itself to appease political sensibilities. This show has always featured acts of depravity, inhumanity and ruthlessness, and frequently skirts moral grey areas. It's what makes it interesting.

It's not about political sensibilities. Seriously? Have you watched the rest if the show? Come on. She was saying no over and over. It looked like she got raped.
 

Dabanton

Member
Would u guys date a girl who doesn't like u watching porn or sex scenes on tv shows and movies? Including game of thrones?

Nope. It would tell me she's a bit of a prude and probably boring sexually.

The sexposition stuff in GoT is hilariously OTT me and and my wife enjoy how silly it is. If someones going to get uptight about that that would say a lot to me.
 
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