Nikodemos
Member
I'm not a Kit hater, but he isn't one who can uplift a subpar script or scene-setting (mind you, few actors are). He needs something decent to build on.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
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SpaceShark
Member
I keep thinking about Tywin lecturing Tommen, and how everyone keeps talking about how he is "verbally kidnapping" the young future king (which I have no doubt he is), but the funny thing is is that he's right. It's actually really good advice. A good and wise king is aware of what he knows and doesn't know, and does listen to his advisors. It might all be very convenient for Tywin, but he speaks the truth. If Tommen actually has the chance to grow up to rule himself (lol), and is able to take the lessons learnt from his clever uncle while not being subservient to him (double lol) then he could actually be a good king.
I take the director at face value when he says that it was supposed to look forced at first, then consensual, but I assume they just missed the mark.
You know, I was about to disagree with you - after reading the quote from the director, and reading opinions about the complicated relationship between Jaime and Cersei and the bizarre context of the scene - but I just rewatched the scene with fresh eyes. Damn, it really feels like people are stretching to see the consent. I don't disagree that it could be consensual, but there's very little given to actually indicate it.
I take the director at face value when he says that it was supposed to look forced at first, then consensual, but I assume they just missed the mark.
I think he's just stuck in hero mode after shooting that Pompeii movie. That would've probably shot inbetween this season and the last one, right?
Ultimadrago
Member
Something something "real thirst".
This guy is bad at his job.
If "doesn't like" just means you have to watch GoT by yourself, then sure. Not every person has to enjoy watching people fucking.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
That was probably the case.
Maybe GoT's producers need to find Kit some epic/heroic side projects to keep him in character between seasons.
Missed an important letter in that quote.
I don't think Robb's men would commit the act in plain sight for him... Robb and Ned were law and order. You get caught breaking their rules, they came down on you. Emphasis on the word caught and the starks wouldn't go on crazy witch hunts under the presumption that most of their men are criminals. As rigid as they were, the starks clearly weren't of the mind for "guilty until proven innocent." Robb in particular displayed his intolerance for any overt funny busines from his men. He told Bolton "No torture... not even a little." Then he took karstark's head even though it would have been a much better idea to flex a little bit by keeping him dettained.
Hey man, that's what safe-words are for.
Hardly. The rest of the episode was great, and so was Joffrey's wedding.
I agree, but it seems the writers were equally at fault here for trying to make things more interesting
Source
I don't really see what the difference is. Does it matter if after he began raping her, she got into it or not? He still raped her, that came across as intended.
I don't understand that about the people saying the director 'ruined Jaime's character' because he didn't communicate his intent accurately. Does it make Jaime's act somehow better if she eventually enjoyed it?
I don't understand that about the people saying the director 'ruined Jaime's character' because he didn't communicate his intent accurately. Does it make Jaime's act somehow better if she eventually enjoyed it?
If it been conveyed as a token resistance that Cersei dropped quickly then the tenor of the whole scene changes completely. That's definitely not what comes across on screen.
Nameless
Member
This was a very very strong scene. Tywin is so blatantly calculating, sinking his talons in the future king while Cersei is too ensconced in grief to position her own influence. Still, you get a sense he genuinely cares for this blank canvass with which he has to work; his excitement is palpable when Tommen aces the impromptu quiz. You so rarely see Tywin showing any positive emotions that it's actually a bit jarring . Cersei is incredible in this scene as well without saying a word. She knows exactly what Tywin's doing and you see her struggling between helplessly watching her father assume agency over her son, while at the same time being proud of Tommen's cleverness, maturity, and overall disposition which couldn't be more different than Joffrey's.
That was never the intent.
The showrunner:
The director:
Jaime's crime is no less if she eventually gives in or not.
Some dickward in the other thread put rape between quotes.
chicko1983
Member
The scene felt rapey to me, I didn't think cersei enjoyed it one bit and repeditly said no or stop.
But Jamie is a known murderer (the mad king) so I don't think rape is out of character for him.
But Jamie is a known murderer (the mad king) so I don't think rape is out of character for him.
I was talking to a friend about the rape scene and he insisted that Cersei 'got into it' by the end, as if that stops it from being rape. I honestly don't know how anyone could see that as a consensual act tbh.
Imagine you're staying with your girlfriend at her parents house. You are sleeping in the same room as her, across the hall from her parents room. You pull her close and kiss her, and try to start taking off her clothes. She tells you she doesn't want to, that her parents could hear and she's not comfortable with it. "Not here", she says. You disregard that and completely force yourself on her anyway.
How the fuck is this not rape? He continued to argue the point and said that wasn't a good analogy.
Imagine you're staying with your girlfriend at her parents house. You are sleeping in the same room as her, across the hall from her parents room. You pull her close and kiss her, and try to start taking off her clothes. She tells you she doesn't want to, that her parents could hear and she's not comfortable with it. "Not here", she says. You disregard that and completely force yourself on her anyway.
How the fuck is this not rape? He continued to argue the point and said that wasn't a good analogy.
It's not, not after he bashed his cousin's face in in the prison cell. It just seems like some funeral incest (funcest) would have been creepy and shocking enough.
I think next year when I get the Blu-Ray I will go straight to this scene to listen to the commentary, hopefully from the show runners.
Nameless
Member
Denzelboom.gif
Rape doesn't retroactively become not-rape if the victim begins to enjoy, submit to, or forgive the act.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Funcest
I'm keeping that.
I'm keeping that.
Steering away from the rape/not rape thing (it was totes rape the way it was conveyed though), I think I liked the Tywin/Tommen scene the most from this episode. It was clear that the only thing Tywin cares about is the survival of his family, not the kingdom. But the fact is that the survival of his family is linked to the prosperity of the kingdom, so it kind of works out.
afternoon delight
Member
Out of all the things to object to, people are pointing towards the angry sex? I thought we'd all be discussing the fantastic manipulation Tywin pulled off this episode.
You people are weak and won't survive til winter. Dead men don't need opinions.
You people are weak and won't survive til winter. Dead men don't need opinions.
My SO and I were discussing it last night and we both agreed that some of our sexual encounters would be categorized as rape by GoTGAF.
Whatchu gunna do tho.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Please make a thread.
I talk about my sex life way too much as it is on GAF. I just wanted to weigh in on the controversy in the most delicate way possible. The control in that relationship is obvious, though the director totally botched it true.
Don't forget Ygrette and crew massacring a village of innocent, defenseless people. I know she was never a "good" character, but any good will she may have obtained last season was wiped away in that scene.
I felt so bad for the kid. And then that freaky bald wildling had to tell him he was going to eat them. As if them being dead wasn't bad enough.
Speaking of that kid, when he was under the table and the camera was focusing on Ygritte as if we were looking from the kid's eyes... I had a feeling that this kid might kill her when they reach Castle Black. You know... just jumping on her from behind with a knife and backstabbing her while she is isn't paying attention, something like that. If not... why bother showing that?
afternoon delight
Member
That scene actually made me realize how sharp the writing is this season so far. Not that the series generally has problems, but almost every scene this episode was highly involving, basically making filler content non-filler content. The Thenn's warning was wonderful.
Keep on hard fucking like Heyseuess intended.
Nameless
Member
I wonder if people felt the same sense of betrayal from the Hound, who was somewhat made more likable in the last few scenes he was in, with Arya warming up to him etc etc.. and then having him rob the farmer.
Nose Master
Member
Even before this thread, I assumed it was rape. They did a pretty poor job of showing it was consensual. A single "yes" would have done the job better than "uh, she didn't bite his tongue off, so!"
Even consensual that scene was pretty gross. They're fucking within' like 2 feet of their fresh incest-born sons corpse.
Even consensual that scene was pretty gross. They're fucking within' like 2 feet of their fresh incest-born sons corpse.
It was meant to be gross, consensual or not.
It was rape.. please stop defending it. At the same time, it was a scene in a television series where there is killing and all types of other debauchery. Lets all stop acting like we were watching Curb Your Enthusiasm and a rape scene happened. experience the feels and move on.
CitizenVectron
Member
Well there's not much "game" going on.
The Lannisters have the throne, Stannis is just pissing about in Dragonstone completely oblivious to the warning from the Wall in episode 10 of last season, the Stark rebellion is crushed.
FreddieQuell
Member
Has there been any mention of the Iron Bank from Dany's storyline? Or are you saying the bank will reach out to Dany?
It would be funny if instead of inspiring the Iron Bank to back Stannis, it makes them consider the other viable candidates and reach out to Dany.
She's the obvious leading candidate for taking the throne as of now.
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
Unless the Lannisters tell the Iron Bank to do one, I don't see why they'd fund Stannis at all.
Tywin spilt the tea when he said the kingdoms would need to be united to have a chance against Dany and now the North, the Riverlands, The Tyrells and the Lannisters are all pretty tight together not only would he need to overcome their alliance he would have to make new ones, and unlike the Lannisters Stannis only has one child he can marry off, who is a deformed girl.
Thats not even considering the fact he and Melisandre would press a new religion on the people. Stannis' throne claim is over. The iron bank would either be fools or utterly desperate to back him (only way I can see that happening is if Tywin told them to fuck off and Dany picked a fight with them because of slavery and such)
He and Melisandre need to tot off to the wall like they said they would a few episodes back because hes not getting his ass near that throne ever.
Tywin spilt the tea when he said the kingdoms would need to be united to have a chance against Dany and now the North, the Riverlands, The Tyrells and the Lannisters are all pretty tight together not only would he need to overcome their alliance he would have to make new ones, and unlike the Lannisters Stannis only has one child he can marry off, who is a deformed girl.
Thats not even considering the fact he and Melisandre would press a new religion on the people. Stannis' throne claim is over. The iron bank would either be fools or utterly desperate to back him (only way I can see that happening is if Tywin told them to fuck off and Dany picked a fight with them because of slavery and such)
He and Melisandre need to tot off to the wall like they said they would a few episodes back because hes not getting his ass near that throne ever.
Portugeezer
Member
Don't know if I should take this too seriously, but I see a lot of Game of Thrones actors in other movies/shows, does this mean they will die this season in GoT? No spoilers, don't answer, but still a bit worrying to see them lol.
Nah. With each actor only getting like an hour tops of screen time a season, they have lots of spare time. They've all got side jobs.
Nameless
Member
The most interesting player in the game at this moment is Littlefinger. He has
-Harrenhal
-Power and influence in King's Landing
-Direct ties to the the Iron Bank of Braavos
-The "Key to the North" Sansa
- An opportunity to secure Lordship over The Vale
If anyone is poised to flip the board completely on its head it's him. You could argue he already kinda did that being at the center of a conspiracy that just assassinated out the king.
On a related note, we might actually get some sorta Stark reunion now that both Arya and Sansa are en route to The Vale.
-Harrenhal
-Power and influence in King's Landing
-Direct ties to the the Iron Bank of Braavos
-The "Key to the North" Sansa
- An opportunity to secure Lordship over The Vale
If anyone is poised to flip the board completely on its head it's him. You could argue he already kinda did that being at the center of a conspiracy that just assassinated out the king.
On a related note, we might actually get some sorta Stark reunion now that both Arya and Sansa are en route to The Vale.
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