Support NeoGAF

[DrForester]

ASOS/ADWD

Spoiler

Edmure basically won the War of the Five Kings for the Lannisters; if he had followed directions Stannis would have almost certainly won the Battle of the Blackwater. That blunder saved the Lannisters, allowing them to continue dealing with the Starks; Catelyn released Jaime after Edmure's folly though.

The reason I'd argue she lost the war for the North is because releasing Jaime forfeited Robb's life. People focus so much on Robb's idiotic marriage but the most important factor in the betrayal was the Boltons. Lord Bolton was convinced Robb couldn't win not because of the Frey shit, but because of the Winterfell sack and the release of Jaime. It was Bolton who sent the northern army to Duskendale, falsely advertised as Robb's decree, in order to show his loyalty to Tywin. It's hard to argue Bolton would make the same decision if Jaime was still in chains and Robb was on the march to re-capture Winterfell. Likewise it's unlikely Tywin would agree to any attempt on Robb's life while Jaime was in custody; he'd be forfeiting his heir's life.

The original plan was for an errant arrow to kill Robb, but the Freys escalated the plan out of stupidity - without Bolton on their side, I don't believe the Freys would have been ballsy enough to pull the trigger; there's no evidence of them making major decisions unless they were safe, and without the Boltons any attempt on Robb would be foolish.

As I said earlier I don't think the North could have outright defeated the Lannisters/Tyrells, but if Robb had made it back north he would largely be untouchable. Winter was coming, Tywin was dead, and the south was being flanked by the Iron Born and later Aegon. It's very unlikely that Cersei, once again made Queen Reagent, would even consider sending Lannister troops out of the city to march north while Mace Tyrell's army occupied King's Landing. Robb at Winterfell wouldn't be an immediate threat to the crown.

ASOS/AFFC

Spoiler

The whole Red Wedding was shocking, because it made no sense. Walder Frey came off as a cowardly, yet calculating and careful person. He wanted his family to have more power, and a marriage to Robb would secure that power. No matter how the War went, Frey's name would survive given the number of kids he had. Betraying Robb was one thing, but the manner in which he did it just seemed off. They gained nothing, except revenge. Their family name is shit, and all they got from it was Lordship of Riverrun (which is still under the jurisdiction of Harenhall). While Riverrun is a nice prize, I can't imagine Emmon Frey's hold on it will last with the River Lords still being pissed, not to mention Edmure is still alive, and Brynden will no doubt surface at some point. Just seems like a stupid move from Walder, and that wasn't the impression I got from him in his earlier appearances.

And totally agree about Cersei. Though, especially if Jamie was still in their custody. She would have given up the North to get him back, probably more, since she has to account for Arya being "dead" and Sansa vanishing.

 

[Steelyuhas]

ASOS/ADWD

Spoiler

Edmure basically won the War of the Five Kings for the Lannisters; if he had followed directions Stannis would have almost certainly won the Battle of the Blackwater. That blunder saved the Lannisters, allowing them to continue dealing with the Starks; Catelyn released Jaime after Edmure's folly though.

The reason I'd argue she lost the war for the North is because releasing Jaime forfeited Robb's life. People focus so much on Robb's idiotic marriage but the most important factor in the betrayal was the Boltons. Lord Bolton was convinced Robb couldn't win not because of the Frey shit, but because of the Winterfell sack and the release of Jaime. It was Bolton who sent the northern army to Duskendale, falsely advertised as Robb's decree, in order to show his loyalty to Tywin. It's hard to argue Bolton would make the same decision if Jaime was still in chains and Robb was on the march to re-capture Winterfell. Likewise it's unlikely Tywin would agree to any attempt on Robb's life while Jaime was in custody; he'd be forfeiting his heir's life.

The original plan was for an errant arrow to kill Robb, but the Freys escalated the plan out of stupidity - without Bolton on their side, I don't believe the Freys would have been ballsy enough to pull the trigger; there's no evidence of them making major decisions unless they were safe, and without the Boltons any attempt on Robb would be foolish.

As I said earlier I don't think the North could have outright defeated the Lannisters/Tyrells, but if Robb had made it back north he would largely be untouchable. Winter was coming, Tywin was dead, and the south was being flanked by the Iron Born and later Aegon. It's very unlikely that Cersei, once again made Queen Reagent, would even consider sending Lannister troops out of the city to march north while Mace Tyrell's army occupied King's Landing. Robb at Winterfell wouldn't be an immediate threat to the crown.

Agreed

Series

Spoiler

And yeah, the release of Jaime had a huge outcome, but I think people underestimate Edmure's actions. He changed the face of the war on multiple fronts with his actions.

 

[Fuzzy]

Yeah thats true. I just really love thinking about this stuff and how differently things might have turned out. Also I just finished rereading THK last night and I wanted to talk about it. It's really interesting and impressive to me how all of these tiny events hundreds of years prior to the first book tie into what eventually goes down in the main series.

The real thing that kicked everything off was [THK]

Spoiler

Arlan Pennytree taking Duncan as a squire in the first place. He should've left him in Flea Bottom and the realm would've been better off.

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

ASOS/AFFC

Spoiler

The whole Red Wedding was shocking, because it made no sense. Walder Frey came off as a cowardly, yet calculating and careful person. He wanted his family to have more power, and a marriage to Robb would secure that power. No matter how the War went, Frey's name would survive given the number of kids he had. Betraying Robb was one thing, but the manner in which he did it just seemed off. They gained nothing, except revenge. Their family name is shit, and all they got from it was Lordship of Riverrun (which is still under the jurisdiction of Harenhall). While Riverrun is a nice prize, I can't imagine Emmon Frey's hold on it will last with the River Lords still being pissed, not to mention Edmure is still alive, and Brynden will no doubt surface at some point. Just seems like a stupid move from Walder, and that wasn't the impression I got from him in his earlier appearances.

And totally agree about Cersei. Though, especially if Jamie was still in their custody. She would have given up the North to get him back, probably more, since she has to account for Arya being "dead" and Sansa vanishing.

ASOS

Spoiler

He also came of as extremely vain and easy to annoy. Add that to the fact that he's almost 100 years old and about to die, and you have someone who would want violent revenge. For me it wasn't shocking because it made no sense, it was shocking because I never thought both Robb and Catelyn would get killed off at the same time, subsequently destroying the north. Also because I didn't want to believe it would happen, what with Arya finally about to meet up with her family.

 

[DrForester]

ASOS

Spoiler

He also came of as extremely vain and easy to annoy. Add that to the fact that he's almost 100 years old and about to die, and you have someone who would want violent revenge. For me it wasn't shocking because it made no sense, it was shocking because I never thought both Robb and Catelyn would get killed off at the same time, subsequently destroying the north. Also because I didn't want to believe it would happen, what with Arya finally about to meet up with her family.

This actually brings up a fear about the show I have...

Series

Spoiler

Could the Red Wedding kill the ratings? Could it be seen as a "Jump the Shark" moment and scare people off. The Starks have really been portrayed as "The Good Guys". They've made Robb far more prominent than in the books, they've added stuff to make Cate more Sympathetic. People were shocked when Ned was killed, how will they react when "The Good Guys" are basically wiped out? The Starks are out of the game. Littlefinger controls Sansa, Arya is well removed of events. I just wonder if some people are just going to say "fuck this" when the characters built up as the heroes, are all gone.

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

This actually brings up a fear about the show I have...

Series

Spoiler

Could the Red Wedding kill the ratings? Could it be seen as a "Jump the Shark" moment and scare people off. The Starks have really been portrayed as "The Good Guys". They've made Robb far more prominent than in the books, they've added stuff to make Cate more Sympathetic. People were shocked when Ned was killed, how will they react when "The Good Guys" are basically wiped out? The Starks are out of the game. Littlefinger controls Sansa, Arya is well removed of events. I just wonder if some people are just going to say "fuck this" when the characters built up as the heroes, are all gone.

Series spoilers

Spoiler

After Robb dies, there are a series of events that give back some hope GRRM so mercilessly crushes, like Joff dying and Jon becoming the new commander of the nights watch. Also Dany continues to kick ass, and I can imagine she's now a viewer favorite after that spectacular last episode. I'm more afraid of AFFC/ADWD destroying the viewership, but I have faith.

 

[Dysun]

Spoiler

The show is gaining ratings week to week, the shock of the RW and the solid material next year will keep the ratings on an upward trajectory. If Dany spends 3 years in Meeren that will be the tipping point I imagine

 

[Fuzzy]

Posted?

 

[Steelyuhas]

This actually brings up a fear about the show I have...

Series

Spoiler

Could the Red Wedding kill the ratings? Could it be seen as a "Jump the Shark" moment and scare people off. The Starks have really been portrayed as "The Good Guys". They've made Robb far more prominent than in the books, they've added stuff to make Cate more Sympathetic. People were shocked when Ned was killed, how will they react when "The Good Guys" are basically wiped out? The Starks are out of the game. Littlefinger controls Sansa, Arya is well removed of events. I just wonder if some people are just going to say "fuck this" when the characters built up as the heroes, are all gone.

Series

Spoiler

Certainly not right away, but I feel that as the series dives into AFFC and ADWD material, the lack of Starks being a faction in the conflict (combined with the material having characters continue to be farther apart/more independent storylines) could hurt the ratings of the show.

The show and books have an interesting contrast of having character and plot arcs come to an abrupt end, given the illusion of things being "fast paced", but the overall plot and some of the character arcs are very much a long haul type scenario. It will be interesting to see how TV audiences react to that as we shift beyond ASOS material. I think it's possible that you see a situation similar to LOST, with diminishing ratings, but a healthy even hardcore audience remains extremely faithful to the show.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Posted?

Ha, that's pretty damn good.

 

[Brashnir]

This actually brings up a fear about the show I have...

Series

Spoiler

Could the Red Wedding kill the ratings? Could it be seen as a "Jump the Shark" moment and scare people off. The Starks have really been portrayed as "The Good Guys". They've made Robb far more prominent than in the books, they've added stuff to make Cate more Sympathetic. People were shocked when Ned was killed, how will they react when "The Good Guys" are basically wiped out? The Starks are out of the game. Littlefinger controls Sansa, Arya is well removed of events. I just wonder if some people are just going to say "fuck this" when the characters built up as the heroes, are all gone.

ASOS

Spoiler

Having that at the end of a season is going to be tough, sure. But I don't think most people will give up on the show immediately due to it, and the events that follow it in ASOS are some of the most inspiring in the series. Season 4 will be a huge positive Rally after the crushing end of Season 3

 

[Morrigan Stark]

One of the big reasons I also hate Catelyn is how judgemental she is of others. Other characters are, but Catelyn takes the cake. How she judged Robert's bastard at the Eyrie?

How did she?

She sounded so cocky that Catelyn had to smile. “Do you have a name, child?”
“Mya Stone, if it please you, my lady,” the girl said.
It did not please her; it was an effort for Catelyn to keep the smile on her face. Stone was a bastard’s name in the Vale, as Snow was in the north, and Flowers in Highgarden; in each of the Seven Kingdoms, custom had fashioned a surname for children born with no names of their own. Catelyn had nothing against this girl, but suddenly she could not help but think of Ned’s bastard on the Wall, and the thought made her angry and guilty, both at once. She struggled to find words for a reply.
Lord Nestor filled the silence. “Mya’s a clever girl, and if she vows she will bring you safely to the Lady Lysa, I believe her. She has not failed me yet.”
“Then I put myself in your hands, Mya Stone,” Catelyn said.
[...]
“You mentioned Mychel before,” Catelyn said. The mules set the pace, slow but steady. She was perfectly content with that.
“Mychel’s my love,” Mya explained. “Mychel Redfort. He’s squire to Ser Lyn Corbray. We’re to wed as soon as he becomes a knight, next year or the year after.”
She sounded so like Sansa, so happy and innocent with her dreams. Catelyn smiled, but the smile was tinged with sadness. The Redforts were an old name in the Vale, she knew, with the blood of the First Men in their veins. His love she might be, but no Redfort would ever wed a bastard. His family would arrange a more suitable match for him, to a Corbray or a Waynwood or a Royce, or perhaps a daughter of some greater house outside the Vale.

So... where and how did she judge Mya? She grunted inwardly at being reminded of Ned's bastard, felt guilty about it, and then treated the girl kindly and courteously. She feels some sadness that this girl's dreams of marrying her love will probably not happen. The horror. That bitch!!

She treats Tyrion like shit just because his last name starts with L.

Or... because she thinks he's responsible for the assassination attempt on Bran and herself? -___-

What I'm talking has nothing to do with her grief but her actual dialogue and monologues in her head. She still doesn't trust a thing Tyrion says

And why should she? How would it make sense or be remotely believable for her to trust him? Hell, pretty much no one trusts Tyrion, except Jon Snow. She has zero reason to trust him, none.

She is judgmental, though. It's part of her character. I have no qualms with her decisions as a desperate mother, but in the second book

Spoiler

she goes on and on about how unfortunate Brienne is for being so ugly.

It may make sense based on her upbringing, or the events of her life, but having good reasoning does not make it any less true.

I don't understand this. How is she judgmental of Brienne? She has pity for her. That's not the same thing as being judgmental. And that pity is just a first impression she gets. She then becomes impressed by Brienne and accepts her into her service. Again: the horror! That bitch!...

There is no amount of Professionally lighthning and Photoshopery can make this woman look good.

Let me explain to you
* face features all out of proportion. Chin too tiny, nose too long, too close to mouth etc etc
* Not a sweet face. She look old,like 28-30, and she act even older, like a 35 old woman. I haven't checked imdb but I wouldn't be surprised if she is 35.
* Wrong actress for the part. Margaery is supposed to be a a very innocent and young maiden, at least from the outside. She look all kind of calculating and manipulating just from her neck up. This severely undermind that "surprise" thing and also the incoming conflict between her and Cersei.

edit: this is supposed to be a cheese cake Equire Magazine shoot? And she still can't smile properly.

...Wow. xD

 

[Brashnir]

How did she?


So... where and how did she judge Mya? She grunted inwardly at being reminded of Ned's bastard, felt guilty about it, and then treated the girl kindly and courteously. She feels some sadness that this girl's dreams of marrying her love will probably not happen. The horror. That bitch!!

Weren't people crucifying the showrunners a couple weeks ago for her showing guilt about her treatment of Jon with no justification in the book? That excerpt could be interpreted as guilt for that as well.

 

[Fuzzy]

Weren't people crucifying the showrunners a couple weeks ago for her showing guilt about her treatment of Jon with no justification in the book? That excerpt could be interpreted as guilt for that as well.

Nah, she was angry that Mya reminded her of Jon and that made her feel guilty because she had nothing against her.

 

[DrForester]

Nah, she was angry that Mya reminded her of Jon and that made her feel guilty because she had nothing against her.

yeah, not to mention...

ASOS

Spoiler

Didn't Robb toss out the idea about legitimizing Jon and that pissed her off?

 

[Brashnir]

Nah, she was angry that Mya reminded her of Jon and that made her feel guilty because she had nothing against her.

She never really had anything against Jon either, only his mother. Series

Spoiler

which, depending on your reading of the books, is entirely misplaced anyway, since he's not really Ned's bastard.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

yeah, not to mention...

ASOS

Spoiler

Didn't Robb toss out the idea about legitimizing Jon and that pissed her off?

It did, understandably so. But Jon's a fan favourite so SHE'S SUCH A BITCH LYNCH HER

 

[Brashnir]

Are you trying to tell me that a person who tells a guy who was practically her son, saying farewell never to see him again, should die, ISN'T a bitch? You're acting like Car is all innocent here.

Not to put words in his mouth, but I don't think anyone is either innocent or guilty in all of this. Everyone has an agenda, and when those agendas come in conflict bad things happen. Every character in the books/show have positive and negative traits (with the possible exception of Joffrey and Cersei) and the conflict between these traits and influence is what makes the story good.

Edit - despite her mistakes, I've always found Cat to be a very sympathetic character through all of this. Much moreso than Robb, who is just a walking disaster who has never done anything right outside the battlefield.

 

[golem]

This actually brings up a fear about the show I have...

Series

Spoiler

Could the Red Wedding kill the ratings? Could it be seen as a "Jump the Shark" moment and scare people off. The Starks have really been portrayed as "The Good Guys". They've made Robb far more prominent than in the books, they've added stuff to make Cate more Sympathetic. People were shocked when Ned was killed, how will they react when "The Good Guys" are basically wiped out? The Starks are out of the game. Littlefinger controls Sansa, Arya is well removed of events. I just wonder if some people are just going to say "fuck this" when the characters built up as the heroes, are all gone.

Ehh im not worried.. it seems that ASOS

Spoiler

Robb isnt really a super fan favorite.. Dany and to a lesser extent Jon seem to be capturing more of the audience's interest (and of course Tyrion)

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Are you trying to tell me that a person who tells a guy who was practically her son,

lol wat

"Practically her son"? No. Not even close. Maybe by 21st century standard. Not by Westerosi society standards.

saying farewell never to see him again, should die, ISN'T a bitch? You're acting like Car is all innocent here.

I don't know who "Car" is.

But yes, Catelyn was mean to Jon. Is that what you want to hear? She said something mean to Jon. The horror! She was also very upset and grieving. People can say nasty things when they're upset and grieving. It's called being human.

Using this moment of weakness with Jon to define her entire character is beyond absurd. People are fond of Jaime and think he's "becoming a good guy" but he attempted murder on an innocent boy. People are fond of Tyrion, but he's done way worse things than Catelyn too. Hell, people are fond of Ned, and he coldly beheaded a man who was really just frightened. (They invoke the laws and customs about deserters, yet ignore all the laws and customs about bastards when it comes to Catelyn and Jon...) And so on.

It's amazing how some characters can get away with all sorts of awful behaviour because they're "cool". But a grieving mother says one mean line in a moment of despair, and she's tainted forever. Reminds me of people who still root for [Breaking Bad]

Spoiler

Walter White and call Skyler the worst bitch ever. Such warped priorities. But that's probably for another thread.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

There is no amount of Professionally lighthning and Photoshopery can make this woman look good.

Let me explain to you
* face features all out of proportion. Chin too tiny, nose too long, too close to mouth etc etc
* Not a sweet face. She look old,like 28-30, and she act even older, like a 35 old woman. I haven't checked imdb but I wouldn't be surprised if she is 35.
* Wrong actress for the part. Margaery is supposed to be a a very innocent and young maiden, at least from the outside. She look all kind of calculating and manipulating just from her neck up. This severely undermind that "surprise" thing and also the incoming conflict between her and Cersei.

edit: this is supposed to be a cheese cake Equire Magazine shoot? And she still can't smile properly.

Gee, thanks for explaining that to me.

No, really. I mean it.

 

[Brashnir]

I'm sick of the grieving mother excuses as if to suggest women are weak and ruled by emotions so it makes it okay to act like a tight ass.

ASOS/AFFC

Spoiler

I definitely want to hear your defense of Cersei's actions post purple wedding. She's another grieving mother too. Should we go along with her idiotic actions?

And it is obvious I meant Cat when I typed Car if you have ever posted on a forum via cell phone. But if course you have to continue to be as pedantic as possible.

I think I explained my thoughts above. Cat, in addition to most characters in the world, makes a lot of poor decisions based on her mindset at the moment, but I think her choices rarely come from a place of malice, and generally come from a place or moral ambiguity at worst.

Cersei is often overtly malicious, which is an entirely different type of person.

Everyone has an agenda. Almost none fall into the "right" category, and almost none fall into the "wrong" category. It's all shades of grey.

 

[Brashnir]

I realize it comes from a poi t of ambiguity. I understand WHY Catelyn feels the way she does. I never said she is a bad character. I'm just explaining why I don't like her. Well, the book version. I find the TV version to be more sympathetic and more humane.

fair enough. I don't think any of the TV portrayals have been substantially different than how I felt about the characters from the books.

 

[Gvaz]

Theon is one of my favorite characters.

As a book reader, I thought what happened to theon was sad, horrible shit. He didn't deserve that.

I like alfie allen's actor too <_<

 

[Nuklear]

Cat also killed Ned in the book. She tells him he must go to King's Landing to be hand. She sealed his fate.

I hate the woman.

 

[Trasher]

There is no amount of Professionally lighthning and Photoshopery can make this woman look good.

Let me explain to you
* face features all out of proportion. Chin too tiny, nose too long, too close to mouth etc etc
* Not a sweet face. She look old,like 28-30, and she act even older, like a 35 old woman. I haven't checked imdb but I wouldn't be surprised if she is 35.
* Wrong actress for the part. Margaery is supposed to be a a very innocent and young maiden, at least from the outside. She look all kind of calculating and manipulating just from her neck up. This severely undermind that "surprise" thing and also the incoming conflict between her and Cersei.

edit: this is supposed to be a cheese cake Equire Magazine shoot? And she still can't smile properly.

This post is amazing!

Tino: Highest Standards Ever

 

[Chuckie]

This post is amazing!

Tino: Highest Standards Ever

It truly is a masterpiece.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Cat also killed Ned in the book. She tells him he must go to King's Landing to be hand. She sealed his fate.

I hate the woman.

Nah...Ned sealed his own fate by refusing Renly's help, trusting Littlefinger, and most of all telling his entire plan to Cersei.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I'm sick of the grieving mother excuses as if to suggest women are weak and ruled by emotions so it makes it okay to act like a tight ass.

ASOS/AFFC

Spoiler

I definitely want to hear your defense of Cersei's actions post purple wedding. She's another grieving mother too. Should we go along with her idiotic actions?

And it is obvious I meant Cat when I typed Car if you have ever posted on a forum via cell phone. But of course you have to continue to be as pedantic as possible.

But to be fair to you I probably am too hard on Catelyn to begin with because Jon is my favorite character. It has nothing to do with being "cool" or "uncool" as you describe as Catelyn does give good counsel. However I can't get past what she says to Jon when he leaves Winterfell as a fan of his character.

It's a little ironic that you make these claims about being weak and ruled by emotion, and then admit that you hate Cat just because you're a blind Jon fanboy. You behave in exactly the same way you claim you despise. xD

You're also shifting the goalposts now. You mentioned Cat being mean to Jon, I explain she said something nasty in a moment of despair, then you talk about "stupid decisions", which is a different thing entirely. And this isn't a "weak woman" thing, plenty of characters people say (or do!) awful things in moments of weakness that they later regret. STORM OF SWORDS spoiler (probably season 4 material):

Spoiler

Do you think Tyrion is an awful misogynistic woman-beater/murderer because of Shae? Is his entire character defined on that one moment where he slaps her, or when he murders her?

Cersei's decisions are not based on her grief, by the way, but her paranoia and her malice. Completely different thing.

And yes the spelling this was just a jab, no need to get that pissy, lol.

Cat also killed Ned in the book. She tells him he must go to King's Landing to be hand. She sealed his fate.

I hate the woman.

I guess she mind-controlled Ned and he's not at all responsible for his actions. I guess she also knew well in advance what would happen and should have predicted everything (Ned is exempt of this, of course). And Ned should have let his mentor's assassination go unresolved and stayed home while vipers threaten his friend Robert. Because it's the right thing to do and Ned never does the right thing. And it's not like Ned had anything to do with his own downfall, right?

The double standards for moral compass and personal responsibility are very fascinating, I have to admit.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

Some damn HUGE unmarked spoilers up in here.

 

[Trasher]

Defending Cat is serious business.

 

[Fidelis Hodie]

Some damn HUGE unmarked spoilers up in here.

Jesus, seriously. The hell happened? Is this not the tagged spoiler thread?

On another note, why are monday-saturday so terrible?

Oh, that's right. Because I'm not watching GOT. Lame.

 

[Pkaz01]

One mention of the Lord of Light by Beric and everything else he says about defending the smallfolk goes out the window.

ASOS

Spoiler

I think they really need to establish how much the everyday folk rely on the brotherhood and what they are really up against. They still have time to do that but right now it seems like everyone that hasn't read the books assumes they are just loonies for the lord of light when in reality it really takes a backdoor and they never really do anything to sacrifice for the red god like Mel would. For some reason I got a more agnostic vibe from Beric after his revivals, sure he believed in the magic and all that but I don't think he truly believed in the lord of light itself and all the bullshit they spew about him or her. He seemed to just want to do whats best for the smallfolk.

 

[Chuckie]

Some damn HUGE unmarked spoilers up in here.

Holy shit indeed :O

 

[Chuckie]

I don't think so. Everything I've mentioned at least aside from Mya Stone - which is in the first book anyways - has showed up in the TV show already.

I don't think she meant you.

 

[FStop7]

Cat's a jerk. Deal with it. She is self-centered, impulsive, and rash. She never pauses to think about the broader implications of her actions and how they might very well wipe out any immediate gains and then some. And when called out on it she retreats to the "my children" defense, even though her actions usually further endanger her children. For example - taking Tyrion Lannister hostage at the beginning of the series. That one cost thousands of lives for no good reason.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

I don't think so. Everything I've mentioned at least aside from Mya Stone - which is in the first book anyways - has showed up in the TV show already.

Morrigan Targaryen used certain major (and I mean major) event that hasn't appeared on the show yet, and of course not foreshadowed, just to make a comparison and say people are more lenient with characters they like than with Cat.

I mean, I agree, I think people are unfair, but still. You don't spoil something like that, with no tags or anything, without even saying anything. ESPECIALLY because it comes completely out of the blue and someone who was interested in discussing Cat but hadn't read the books is in for a nasty surprise.

Also Margaery is hot. 'fuck is wrong with y'all

 

[exYle]

I don't think so. Everything I've mentioned at least aside from Mya Stone - which is in the first book anyways - has showed up in the TV show already.

SoS

Spoiler

Shae's death at the hand of Tyrion has been left unmarked by Morrigan Targaryen

 

[Chuckie]

Also Margaery is hot. 'fuck is wrong with y'all

Fuck yeah! I knew we'd be cool again AM.

I sent Morrigan a PM, so hopefully it will be spoilertagged soon.

 

[Trasher]

Morrigan Targaryen used certain major (and I mean major) event that hasn't appeared on the show yet, and of course not foreshadowed, just to make a comparison and say people are more lenient with characters they like than with Cat.

lolol

It's still just out there. Morrigan needs to take a chill pill and proof read that shit before she submits her posts. She's letting the heat of the argument get to her!

 

[Chris R]

Just takes a few careless posters to ruin a good thing :< There is a thread where there are no spoilers, just post there if you can't keep your stuff straight or are too lazy to wrap stuff in tags.

 

[TCRS]

And Now His Tweet is Twar… ted?

I think this is the best so far haha! Love to see the reactions.

 

[Yonafunu]

And Now His Tweet is Twar… ted?

I think this is the best so far haha! Love to see the reactions.

Twitter is filled with spoilers though. Dayum.

 

[Hystzen]

Did we get any Mance casting news at all don't remember it odd seeing the small council without Mance around. They have to have him show up sometime

 

[Chuckie]

Did we get any Mance casting news at all don't remember it odd seeing the small council without Mance around. They have to have him show up sometime

Mance? Mance Rayder?

Shown above: Mance Rayder

 

[ReadingRambo]

Did we get any Mance casting news at all don't remember it odd seeing the small council without Mance around. They have to have him show up sometime

Mace (Mayce?)? As in Tyrell?

 

[Hystzen]

Yup brain fart MACE TYRELL

*goddamn I need something to eat*

 

[Raist]

She look old,like 28-30,

wtf dude.

 

[jett]

wtf dude.

She's supposed to be 15-16 in the books.

 

[Brashnir]

She's supposed to be 15-16 in the books.

Everyone is younger in the books.