Game Pass is hurting day one software sales on Xbox could this push publishers & devs away from Xbox Scarlett or will they wait it out?
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ResilientBanana
Member
iwannaseethereceipts.gif
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Game Pass is nice in many ways, but I am concerned that long term it can hurt the industry. I am having a very hard time believing that MS made up the development costs of Gears of War 5 alone with Gamepass. When you consider people like me who bought two years worth of cheaper 1 year Xbox-Live subscription cards and then upgraded with a $1 cost, I have a very hard time believing that they will break even any time soon.
Elenchus
Banned
Where is the link to the source?
Fbh
Member
Hard to say, specially with no concrete data.
I imagine Xbox exclusives will get less direct sales but only MS can really say if the revenue from Gamepass makes up for it.
But that only shows that games that are on (and launch on) Gamepass will sell less copies which makes sense.
For devs/publishers to boycott scarlet you'd need data that shows that games that aren't on game pass are also suffering from lower sales.
I imagine Xbox exclusives will get less direct sales but only MS can really say if the revenue from Gamepass makes up for it.
But that only shows that games that are on (and launch on) Gamepass will sell less copies which makes sense.
For devs/publishers to boycott scarlet you'd need data that shows that games that aren't on game pass are also suffering from lower sales.
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Stuart360
Member
Well Moder Warfare split is like 60 something to 30 something, so they have lost about 10% sales through Gamepass. But isnt that the whole point of putting games on Gamepass, so people sign up for it?, they dont put something like Outer Worlds onto Gamepass but are secretly hoping no one plays it.
Hinedorf
Banned
I forgot I was still paying for Gamepass after initially subscribing and getting bored with the original Gears of War. Finding out I got a brand new game through the subscription makes me feel like I will likely never cancel it now.
I have no idea how they are going to recoup the money from all the people playing through Gamepass but I think it's fantastic
I have no idea how they are going to recoup the money from all the people playing through Gamepass but I think it's fantastic
dorkimoe
Member
I wouldnt sub to gamepass if they took these day 1 releases off, its an absolute STEAL right now. They are first party games, its not like call of duty was on game pass, its Gears and a Microsoft owned Studio - outer worlds.
If a third party game does it, i am guessing they recoup money on micro transactions.
If a third party game does it, i am guessing they recoup money on micro transactions.
Mattyp
Not the YouTuber
A Microsoft studio, only reason this was day one. Dam this thread is idiotic, no triple AAA titles are going gamepass day one.
Stuart360
Member
I suppose the thinking is they offer these ridiculous cheap Gamepass deals, put regular new games on it, get people entrenched in the Gamepass system and so used to getting new games easily and cheaply thet when they put Gamepass upto $10 or $15 a month, many people will be so invested in the system that many carry on with it at the higher price.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Another onQ123 negative MS thread. What a surprise.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
how is it hurting? It's a different strategy to what's happend befor. It's a new idea and Microsoft maybe making a lot of money on games they wouldn't make money on.As you said it's the Netflix of gaming and when Netflix came out nobody thought it would take off.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
So wouldn't you say PS user are getting the worse end of the deal in having to buy the game? Also a win win for Microsoft as they getting the money from all sales
nikolino840
Member
So Is not becouse there Is more then 100mil of ps4 and about 40mil of Xbox?
ResilientBanana
Member
Yeah but the developer gets a cut based on installs, hours played and so on. So while they may not get a sale, they are making money by other means.
"Xbox Game Pass is the first time subscription is fair for developers"
Xbox Game Pass is the first time that the subscription model has made economic sense for game developers, according to …
www.gamesindustry.biz
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CyberPanda
Banned
Pretty much. Developers don't care how they make money. As long as they fill their pockets at the end of the day.
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ResilientBanana
Member
Correct, if it was a bad deal for developers, they wouldn't be on the service to begin with. I'll let them be the judge. Clearly we will see less and less support of it sucked for them.
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Dontspeakforme
Banned
Who gives a shit? Worry about your own financials instead of random video game companies and maybe one day you might make half as much as I do.
Shifty
Member
I dunno if anti-MS sentiment is at play, but the usual pattern of needing to badger OP to actually post evidence is in present and accounted for.
I predict a drawn-out affair in which the thread attempts to extract an actual argument, only to find that it is in fact wild speculation.
joe_zazen
Member
We'll see how it plays out once MS wants to actually make money on gamepass. Right now, it is like epic game store, where it is being subsidised to get market share and hurt competition, so everyone on gamepass is happy because of microsoft money.
in the past, it has been proven that when rich players enter a market and use their money to distort that market in order to hurt competition, consumers suffer in the long run. Healthy markets require everyone to have to make money in fair competition. Also, there is the danger of training your audience to not pay premium money for premium games, as in the mobile space.
in the past, it has been proven that when rich players enter a market and use their money to distort that market in order to hurt competition, consumers suffer in the long run. Healthy markets require everyone to have to make money in fair competition. Also, there is the danger of training your audience to not pay premium money for premium games, as in the mobile space.
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xrnzaaas
Member
The problem is Microsoft have put themselves in this position. If they'll back off now and delay Game Pass inclusion by a month or two there's going to be a huge backlash and tons of unsubs.
Elenchus
Banned
This only for the UK, ignores PS4's console lead, and there is no data to establish a causal relationship so the "because" in that sentence is an assumption by definition.
Also, same article states as follows (which is also an assumption by the way):
"The Outer Worlds from Obsidian debuted at No.4. This is an interesting game, because the media and certain consumers may have expected more from the title's performance (it must be noted that this is just physical sales -- digital is not included and will likely make up a significant part of the sales). This new IP has been compared to the Fallout series, reviews were decent overall, and with a (comparative) lack of significant releases this Christmas, The Outer Worlds had been earmarked as a breakout hit."
Bottom line. You just don't have enough data and I would stop worrying about running businesses you aren't paid to run.
Safe to say we can rely on the self-interests of the developers and MS to make sure this model makes sense for all concerned. That's how capitalism works my friend.
New Yorks Finest
Banned
All off his MS hate threads always backfires and full of holes..what a sad Fanatic Pony warrior, proud Phd in certified clown status .
It is simple math, a steady flow of money vs direct sales. Which one is better.
It always depends on the situation. With things like gamepass the publisher/developer can make money even with older titles without any additional cost (well if there aren't any licenses that cost them money). Subscription-models are a goldmine because over time the publisher gets more money than with single sales. Don't forget prices of games decrease very fast in recent years. And the best is, publisher/developers can even sell more DLCs than before. And sometimes customers buy a game after it vanishes from the pass.
btw, subscription models work quite well. E.g. I just played WoW Classic the last two month, and this is a 15 year old game and is still making money
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ResilientBanana
Member
Well yeah, all we are are computer chair quarter backs trying to tell the players how to play. Meanwhile, they don't listen and the industry keeps growing.
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DynamiteCop!
Banned
The goal isn't front loaded sales, it's long term engagement of the service which pays these costs off over time. They've still no doubt sold a few million copies of Gears 5 which helps take a brunt of that cost down.
It's doing exactly what they want it to, it's getting more people on the service.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Interesting question, how much does a retailer make per game? How much of a cut do they take in a full price game. With game pass there is no cost for the disc pressing or the cost of the disc or the case and artwork print for the case. I know it's only pennies but how much does Microsoft make on a game sold at retail?
DynamiteCop!
Banned
A $59.99 retail games gross revenue return is about $37 before platform fees. So roughly $11 per game to the platform holder (MS) and $26 to the publisher. The $23 remainder goes to taking care of the pressing, material costs, shipping, retailer fees etc.
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There's lots of different ways to pick winners and losers for game pass ultimately our system set on how much money did a thing make and I don't know if Sony strategy is good but I've bought every first party game that's come out( passing on death stranding) and for my Xbox I have tried some games on Game Pass so I save money there but I give it to Sony in the other way
And there's no doubt about Sony quality its just been hands-down better while Xbox has came to terms finally realizing that it takes some time to put high-end games out and next year will start to see some of those things but I'll just try for a buck xbox has not given me a reason to buy their games for full price
And for the third party games that are on Game Pass I don't even play them most of them are old games and just not interested in 4 year old games that I would have not tried before
And there's no doubt about Sony quality its just been hands-down better while Xbox has came to terms finally realizing that it takes some time to put high-end games out and next year will start to see some of those things but I'll just try for a buck xbox has not given me a reason to buy their games for full price
And for the third party games that are on Game Pass I don't even play them most of them are old games and just not interested in 4 year old games that I would have not tried before
joe_zazen
Member
but it isnt. If one company, say epic or ms, is competing in a particular market but does not have to make money in it while their competitors do, that is market distortion. You need to call it something else. people are ok with it now, but it can lead to bad outcomes for consumers if history is any guide.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
So Microsoft ain't loosing that much money if any by putting game on gamepass
DynamiteCop!
Banned
There's obviously an initial hit, but the thing is with continued subscription the cost gets spread out. Everything will all get paid for the same, profit will be generated, it will simply happen in a different form and over time.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Sony already has it with PS Now. Lots of games. And you can download it.
The only thing missing from PS Now is first party games getting added on launch date. They've already added lots of first party games, but they are a year out, which makes the sub service more like EA Access which have the latest games coming out 8-10 months after launch.
If PS Now or EA Access ever get launch games on the service as day one access, it's basically Game Pass.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Yeah agree with that, I think in the long run game pass will make a ton for them
Fake
Member
But Game Pass already have a huge library, don't?
LostDonkey
Member
I dont think obsidian care as they're now swimming in money and bitches.
01011001
Banned
uhm... can someone explain to me how a service that developers can OPT IN to could keep them away from Xbox Scarlett?
"OH NO! THEY HAVE AN OPTION FOR OUR GAME THAT'S COMPLETELY OPTIONAL FOR US TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF! NOOOOOOOO!" -Publisher X
like, the thread title alone is just such nonsense that I'm surprised anyone here actually tries to make arguments...
not to mention that Sony has the exact same service but worse... it's called PSnow
"OH NO! THEY HAVE AN OPTION FOR OUR GAME THAT'S COMPLETELY OPTIONAL FOR US TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF! NOOOOOOOO!" -Publisher X
like, the thread title alone is just such nonsense that I'm surprised anyone here actually tries to make arguments...
not to mention that Sony has the exact same service but worse... it's called PSnow
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DynamiteCop!
Banned
Yeah the title is pretty shit bait.
xrnzaaas
Member
That's not relevant, people are getting brand new games on day1, they will be expecting to keep getting them even if they didn't finish the earlier ones.
Elenchus
Banned
Sony has been around since the 1940s and uses it's name recognition and movie assets to get a leg up and MS uses its money. Who's to say what's fair? It's business.
Most businesses don't break even for their first 5 years because they have to discount their goods or services until they gain consumer confidence and enough market share to sustain themselves.
EGS is a new platform. Game Pass is a new platform. So is Mixer by the way. Them running in the red early would be neither surprising nor novel (assuming that's the case because we don't know).
No one would be able to break into a new market if there was a requirement to be profitable on day one.
Hell Uber and Lyft are still not profitable last time I checked. This is an accepted and expected part of the normal business cycle.
Game Pass subscription fees will rise over time just like Netflix's fees did.
The history of Netflix price increases in a single chart
Subscribers will now pay between $9 and $16 per month, depending on the service.
www.vox.com
zeorhymer
Member
The article cited has nothing to do with "hurting day one sales." What I find is weird with:
"Perhaps unsurprisingly because of Game Pass, The Outer Worlds sales are 78% on PS4 and 22% on Xbox One. "
Why are they lumping GP with XOne? Gamepass is also on PC which is where I'm playing the game.
"Perhaps unsurprisingly because of Game Pass, The Outer Worlds sales are 78% on PS4 and 22% on Xbox One. "
Why are they lumping GP with XOne? Gamepass is also on PC which is where I'm playing the game.
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