Seriously. I don't care whether or not he gave the game an 8. I disagree with his reasoning for justifying that score. Complaining that we shouldn't have interactive cinematic experiences is fucking stupid. There are people who like that kind of experience, and U2 does it better than any of them. There's a difference between "the game could have improved upon this" and "the game should have improved upon this." One is a valid complaint of a games flaws and the other is just an expression of personal distaste.Safe Bet said:
Gamereactors editor in chief "I was blasted over Uncharted 2 review" + review scores
- Thread starter darkwings
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Neuromancer
Member
I agree with him 110% about games needing to move away from these extremely linear, heavily scripted movie-like affairs. Unfortunetly it seems like the average gamer would rather just run down a corridor (whether it's inside or outside doesn't really matter) massacring a thousand dudes coming out of doorways, than play a game with actual choices and a little bit of freedom.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Nafai1123 said:
Why do you care about this.
Dogenzaka said:No I mean, Mass Effect 2 is apparently an amazing game. So is God of War 3 and Uncharted 2. If he's scoring all the best games to come out the past year as 8 and 9, then I'm convinced he's just really harsh on game critique, instead of trolling for hits or just being very weird.
Oh, ok. But I still wouldn't call scoring any of these games an 8 or 9 "harsh". Both 8 and 9 still says "those are pretty damn good games so go and play them!".
It's sad to see people crying and raigining over "8" or "9" nowadays
theignoramus said:
Yes, they did cut back lots of features from San Andreas, but it's still not a linear game that holds your hand and doesn't allow you to do anything outside following certain path. You can still spend hours and hours playing it without even touching missions (not counting constant annoying messages and phones from your cousin/girfriends/friends), so this is still not the kind of expierience Hegewall is talking about. So I can see how he could enjoy it more than MW, Uncharted or any other scripted linear game.
carbonbased
Member
if you guys are gonna rage about a review score do it about pd getting a 6. to arms!
Nafai1123 said:
Personally I think Sands of Time was far more interesting visually and thematically than Uncharted 2, but hey, that's what opinions are for
The implication from many people that that Uncharted 2 is above criticism is one of the more amusing trends to come from GAF lately.
Raist said:
It's not different - the gameplay mechanics are still the same (although without the forced co-op and better inventory and better treasure hunting and better weapon buying system and... ), but it's a lot more polished. The pacing, the atmosphere, the variations, enemies --- everything (except graphics, of course
) is much better in that game.You'll need a bigger brush to paint all those millions of SDF as batshit crazy..benita said:
Apparently, MW2 fans were angry at that petter chap too.. So, how should we label those nutterdome of extremists?bj00rn_ said:
Seriously, these posts aren't any better than the fanboy posts you guys are blasting..
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
not really, the problem is that people no longer want to read reviews that give a different angle, they want reinforcement of their -own- take on what a game should get which is why we get the various reactions on display
in Bioshock's case, there's an argument against the core gameplay. It's good, but it's hampered by it's non-patched original nature which lost a lot of the fear factor. Great atmosphere and great delivery though. So you can see, there are things to like and not like about the game, and thus no one should be surprised that the game has a range of opinions on it. Be it this game OR ANY OTHER GAME.
Now, don't get me wrong, there's a difference between a good review and a bad review. Bad reviews can be several things - they can get facts completely wrong that lead to a game getting lower than expected scores, the game may not even have been played that much or in it's entirety ... or the game makes paid a crud load for advertisements and the reviewer glosses over what is wrong with the game, inflating the score.
As long as reviewers (/people/fanboys) lay out some sort of justification as to WHY games score under and over then i don't see why anyone should be too up in arms.
Quite why people are up in arms about a 6 for PD prior to it being released is beyond me (unless i'm missing something?) Yes, it's been updated, yes, it's got the new shine and , yes, it's a "classic" at only 800 yen but until we've actually had a full hands on then i don't think we can tear down the score... and even that is the usual wanky fanboy thing :
LOOK AT THE SCORE!
hey why not read the text... ?
READING THE TEXT WONT CHANGE THE SCOREEEEEEEEEEEeeeeee.
in short, stop taking your own opinions so seriously. This is how ulcer specialists stay in business
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
darkwings said:
A man with good taste I see.
you are awsome, mate and agree with you.DCharlie said:
Having said that, i can never imagine anyone hating on Bioshock unless he approached it in a wrong way. The game is not an FPS and is trying to do something completely different.
as for me, i never read reviews until i play a game for x amount of hours and see if what have i missed in terms of how i initially approached it.
and you know what it bloody works and i am glad i can enjoy more games that way.
Raist said:As far as I was aware it turned the series on its head mostly because of its control scheme and over the shoulder camera.
Fine, I'll try to grab a copy and get some time to play it.
However, if I have to fight my way through countless ennemies (not infinite, since U2 doesn't have this flaw either, but I can see his point), if the game has more than 10mins of cutscenes, and if it doesn't have mind-blowing puzzles, I'll post a LTTP thread and I'll tear the game down to pieces
If there was one game that deserved a perfect 10 last gen was Resident Evil 4, one of the best games ever that plays amazing even after 5 years.
At least play it and then come and bitch about it.
And about Uncharted 2, personally I loved the game and I think that it's the perfect example of the cinematic "genre" but I kinda understand what he means by saying that is getting tired of the late trend of scripted cinematic set-pieces and lack of challenge this gen.
Mr_Zombie said:Oh, ok. But I still wouldn't call scoring any of these games an 8 or 9 "harsh". Both 8 and 9 still says "those are pretty damn good games so go and play them!".
It's sad to see people crying and raigining over "8" or "9" nowadays
Yes, they did cut back lots of features from San Andreas, but it's still not a linear game that holds your hand and doesn't allow you to do anything outside following certain path. You can still spend hours and hours playing it without even touching missions (not counting constant annoying messages and phones from your cousin/girfriends/friends), so this is still not the kind of expierience Hegewall is talking about. So I can see how he could enjoy it more than MW, Uncharted or any other scripted linear game.
You know, except that the story and missions are scripted and linear as fuck. And frankly, there isnt much to do outside of them that doesnt get old quick outside of pissing the cops off.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
nobody who watched the whole game would say this.
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
Now you know that this will never happen. I don't understand why so many people are unable to see how someone else may have not only a different opinion but a different opionion which is just as valid as their own.DCharlie said:
Warren Ellis
Banned
only 6 for perfect dark ? :lol
why halo fans must review the best fps ever.. sigh
why halo fans must review the best fps ever.. sigh
Feindflug said:If there was one game that deserved a perfect 10 last gen was Resident Evil 4, one of the best games ever that plays amazing even after 5 years.
At least play it and then come and bitch about it.
And about Uncharted 2, personally I loved the game and I think that it's the perfect example of the cinematic "genre" but I kinda understand what he means by saying that is getting tired of the late trend of scripted cinematic set-pieces and lack of challenge this gen.
Back from watching a couple of RE4 gameplay vids (not too many, don't wanna spoil myself), I absolutely do not see how you can't call RE4 a game full of "scripted cinematic set-pieces". As for the challenge, we'll see. I'm keeping my expectations very low because otherwise I'll probably send death letter to Misterinenja and Dead Man Typing
EmCeeGramr
Member
Nafai1123 said:
Why do you care if a game reviewer in Sweden doesn't like the same kinds of video games as you.
Foxtastical
Member
I tried, but I couldn't pick just one stupid ass post to quote. So much dumb in so many places.Warren Ellis said:
Pristine_Condition
Member
Rustymonke said:
Yeah, this is a bunch of bullshit.
First off, there ARE "large areas with great A.I. and could play out very differently" in Uncharted 2. Yes, there are scripted enemy waves/events, but how you play with them is up to you. If you are bored, you are probably playing the game using the same, boring pattern. Mix up your style.
I just finished playing Uncharted 2 with a bunch of total noobs, and I played the game completely differently then they do, and the battles then play out completely differently.
I used a lot of stealth to set up firefights. These guys would go in guns blazing or grenade throwing. I stealth kill, melee, and run-and-gun a lot and I use blindfire under cover a lot. I use the verticality of levels to my advantage. I hang-and-shoot a lot. These guys never run-and-gun, tend to stay on the ground using cover, and almost always zoom the rifle and aim for headshots. So the battles, even though they are from the same construction and scripted elements, play completely differently once the game's A.I. takes over.
The reason I play differently is partly because I play a lot of stealth games, less FPSs than they do, and I played through Crushing in Uncharted. When you play the different difficulties, especially Crushing in Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, you MUST learn to run-and-gun and blindfire. So that learned mechanic comes naturally to me, while a noob who's coming from playing 100 hrs of MW or GoW to Uncharted 2 will bring their old habits into the game, which changes the A.I.'s approach to killing you, especially in harder difficulties.
So, if you want a new challenge with the game, change difficulties, which forces you to learn new skills, or change the way you tend to play the game. If you are a "Gears-type" or FPS player primarily, and you finish Uncharted 2 kinda sticking to that style, learn to use stealth. Learn to melee. Learn to run-and-shoot. Look for vertical traversal elements to climb to get the high ground or hang-and-shoot.
Doing this completely changes the gameplay and how the A.I. reacts to you.
Yeah, if you play the game the same way every time, it'll play the same way. But if you mix it up and have FUN instead of just sticking to your safe, learned and practiced pattern, (what's the fun of that anyway?) you'll have more fun...because the A.I. will still try to kick your ass.
ShockingAlberto
Member
No one's calling you a fanboy.Nafai1123 said:
Just crazy.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Nafai1123 said:Why do any of us care about talking about video games?
Because we're discussing games and things about games that we like or that interest us.
Not getting upset and calling people and their opinions "fucking stupid" when they say they don't like a game's direction.
RE4 didn't change the control scheme, just the camera. It also took the series away from a mystery/adventure game to pure action. There are very few puzzles in RE4. All of them are easy and some of them are optional. It's certainly a great game, but don't go in expecting anything like the older games in a the series.Raist said:As far as I was aware it turned the series on its head mostly because of its control scheme and over the shoulder camera.
Fine, I'll try to grab a copy and get some time to play it.
However, if I have to fight my way through countless ennemies (not infinite, since U2 doesn't have this flaw either, but I can see his point), if the game has more than 10mins of cutscenes, and if it doesn't have mind-blowing puzzles, I'll post a LTTP thread and I'll tear the game down to pieces
Comparing RE4 to Uncharted 2 is more than valid as far as I'm concerned. They're both 3rd person shooters with protagonists that don't have any sort of super powers at their disposal. Just a great arsenal of weapons and some melee attacks. RE4 is plenty cinematic and can be credited with popularizing the QTE (that knife fight remains one of my favorite video game moments).
Hellsing321
Member
A very fine score for a very fine game. Anyone who bitches about a game getting an 8 needs to be shot.
MrPing1000
Member
Darklord said:
Thats basically it, game journalism is a joke and it's not entirely their fault, mass appeal means giving high scores to any hyped game. It happens over and over and over.
bonesmccoy
Banned
I actually get my recommendations from Gaf. If I want to know if a game is actually worthwhile, I'll head over here and read everyone's opinions. I will use a 'professional' site if I just want to get a quick peek at a specific game because of time constraints, i.e. as I scarf down breakfast before heading to work.
Now having said that, the problem with these reviewers is that they attempt to use an scale system, when they should just say 'Recommend/Don't Recommend' and just list the pros and cons they picked noticed during their time with the game. Thus, as much as I hate Kotaku, I do think that they'll approached reviews the best out of the bigger gaming sites.
Now having said that, the problem with these reviewers is that they attempt to use an scale system, when they should just say 'Recommend/Don't Recommend' and just list the pros and cons they picked noticed during their time with the game. Thus, as much as I hate Kotaku, I do think that they'll approached reviews the best out of the bigger gaming sites.
abstract alien
Member
Although I would rate it higher due to its outstanding polish in most areas, I agree with what he is saying. Although enjoyable(insanely enjoyable), the main gripe I had with it was the fact that it was guided as hell for most of the adventure. You almost always knew exactly what to do, and never had any problems at all accomplishing it. I get that this may have been the goal of it all(which it most certainly succeeded in delivering in a great package), but in all honesty, even Tomb Raider had a more adventurous feel. Of course, I'm not saying Tomb Raider is a better game, but it did accomplish the feel of adventuring more so than Uncharted did, which only feels adventurous in theme and presentation. Even still, I think an 8 is a perfect understandable score for it, and it isn't as if an 8 is bad to begin with. I personally would have given it an 8.5 - 9 due to it being mostly polished and well represented in what it set out to achieve, but an 8 is a fitting score as well.
Remove all numbered scores from reviews and the world would be a happier place.
Still, over 100 media outlets gave U2 GOTY, 40 gave it a perfect score on Metacritic. Giving a game an 8 when the vast majority of critical comment puts a median at well over 9 means your comments are close to being an outlier. When you back it up with personal opinion that you are against this type of game means you are critiquing the style of game rather than how the particular game executes. No one is interested in that sort of review when it becomes a discussion of your preferred game genre.
He uses phrases like "I know today that I want something else" and "Is it the right path for the action genre to go? I dont believe so" to emphasise his particular opinion on the game genre rather than the game itself.
Crap review is crap and he should have been lampooned over it no matter what score he gave.
Still, over 100 media outlets gave U2 GOTY, 40 gave it a perfect score on Metacritic. Giving a game an 8 when the vast majority of critical comment puts a median at well over 9 means your comments are close to being an outlier. When you back it up with personal opinion that you are against this type of game means you are critiquing the style of game rather than how the particular game executes. No one is interested in that sort of review when it becomes a discussion of your preferred game genre.
He uses phrases like "I know today that I want something else" and "Is it the right path for the action genre to go? I dont believe so" to emphasise his particular opinion on the game genre rather than the game itself.
Crap review is crap and he should have been lampooned over it no matter what score he gave.
abstract alien
Member
Pretty much. The problem here though is that most people don't like to read and only have an attention span for bullet-point like descriptions. Most just skip to the number, check as see if its high enough for their tastes, and assume they know every thing there is to know about it.Grooski said:
theignoramus
Member
uh huh. and how did Hegewall feel about Saint's Row 2?Mr_Zombie said:Oh, ok. But I still wouldn't call scoring any of these games an 8 or 9 "harsh". Both 8 and 9 still says "those are pretty damn good games so go and play them!".
It's sad to see people crying and raigining over "8" or "9" nowadays
Yes, they did cut back lots of features from San Andreas, but it's still not a linear game that holds your hand and doesn't allow you to do anything outside following certain path. You can still spend hours and hours playing it without even touching missions (not counting constant annoying messages and phones from your cousin/girfriends/friends), so this is still not the kind of expierience Hegewall is talking about. So I can see how he could enjoy it more than MW, Uncharted or any other scripted linear game.
Foxtastical
Member
Jesus. You're why we can't have nice things.Grooski said:
"Well, man, I love FF12, great game, and so far it looks like MW2/U2 is getting amazing reviews, all 10s and 9s. I better get that game."
Why can't we have a review out there for that man? Every damn review nowadays is just a fan of the genre writing a review for the newest game in his favorite genre. Wow, so interesting...
I have a feeling what your response could be!
EmCeeGramr
Member
Grooski said:
So you're angry that he thought Uncharted 2 was an 8.
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