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Gears of War 3 |OT| BROTHERS TO THE END

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reggie

Banned
2San said:
Yeah, but from what I understand you don't really use shotty's. I really don't understand why you care about this subject? You seem to be obnoxious about this subject just for the sake of being obnoxious.
I use shotguns (specifically the Gnasher) all the time. Like I use the Lancer and the Retro all the time. All the weapons are situational. The shotguns are SITUTATIONAL. You can not expect to fit the shotgun in every situation, this is where the big problem lies with SOS whiners.

I care about the subject just like you do, where as you seem to think the game needs fixing, I think it's fine the way it is.

2San said:
How so? The whole point for choosing the SOS over the gnasher is the bullet spread so you don't have to aim
It could be said that if you fall into a SOS users trap that you are just as bad as them. It's extremely easy to avoid and counter.
 

2San

Member
reggie said:
I use shotguns (specifically the Gnasher) all the time. Like I use the Lancer and the Retro all the time. All the weapons are situational. The shotguns are SITUTATIONAL. You can not expect to fit the shotgun in every situation, this is where the big problem lies with SOS whiners.

I care about the subject just like you do, where as you seem to think the game needs fixing, I think it's fine the way it is.
Here's the problem Gnasher is the go to weapon in the Gears franchise. Here we have weapon(the SOS) that overlaps with Gnasher(close range) and the only real difference is the insane bullet spread. So it's really just a weapon for people who dislike learning the game like everyone else. Can I deal with it? Sure, but it's pretty annoying to get killed by something where I know that the other player just did a kamikaze shot where he didn't even need to aim. It's just feels incredibly cheap. Epic punished the veteran players that took time to learn the game, but rewards newcomers(who hated the Gnasher). Which is weird, since they already balanced the rifles to properly counter the Gnasher(which is fine, but the SOS is just an annoyance). It screws up certain gametypes like KOTH as well.

reggie said:
It could be said that if you fall into the SOS users trap that you are just as bad as them. It's extremely easy to avoid and counter.
Why are arguing something else? I told you why the SOS promotes sloppy play. Seeing as you changed the argument. I'm going to assume you agree with me.

edit: Seems the point isn't coming across. I'll put in really simple terms. I have more fun with Gears 3 when none of the opposing team are using the SOS. I'm even fine with all lancers teams.
 

Arjen

Member
reggie said:
I use shotguns (specifically the Gnasher) all the time. Like I use the Lancer and the Retro all the time. All the weapons are situational. The shotguns are SITUTATIONAL. You can not expect to fit the shotgun in every situation, this is where the big problem lies with SOS whiners.

Seriously, where are you reading that we want to use the shotgun ALL the time?
In close combat, where you used to have shotgun battles, it's been dumbed down and imho more boring.
I know how to counter the damn thing, i just wish they didn't put it in the game.
 

reggie

Banned
2San said:
Here's the problem Gnasher is the go to weapon in the Gears franchise. Here we have weapon(the SOS) that overlaps with Gnasher(close range) and the only real difference is the insane bullet spread. So it's really just a weapon for people who dislike learning the game like everyone else. Can I deal with it? Sure, but it's pretty annoying to get killed by something where I know that the other player just did a kamikaze shot where he didn't even need to aim. The design decision from Epic is just a incredibly stupid. They punished the veteran players that took time to learn the game, but rewards newcomers(who hated the Gnasher). Which is weird, since they already balanced the rifles to properly counter the Gnasher(which is fine, but the SOS is just an annoyance). It screws up certain gametypes like KOTH as well.
It was the go to weapon in Gears 1/2. Now the game is actually balanced. Every weapon has a counter. You sit here bitching about how the SOS is broken, yet probably haven't even considered that the Gnasher was broken originally (Gears 1/2) and has now been fixed.

2San said:
Why are arguing something else? I told you why the SOS promotes sloppy play. Seeing as you changed the argument. I'm going to assume you agree with me.
You are the one who brought it up. And I don't see how I changed the argument?

2San said:
Seems the point isn't coming across. I'll put in really simple terms. I have more fun with Gears 3 when none of the opposing team are using the SOS. I'm even fine with all lancers teams.

I get your point - that it's easy to camp and get kills with. At the same time if you're falling into that same trap you're just as bad as he is.

Arjen said:
Seriously, where are you reading that we want to use the shotgun ALL the time?
In close combat, where you used to have shotgun battles, it's been dumbed down and imho more boring.
I know how to counter the damn thing, i just wish they didn't put it in the game.
You're the one trying to get shotgun battles out of SOS users.

You need to stop trying to fight SOS users in close quarters unless it's to your advantage.
 

2San

Member
reggie said:
You are the one who brought it up. And I don't see how I changed the argument?
This
reggie said:
BTW this idea of the SOS rewarding 'sloppy' gameplay is laughable. What's sloppy is if you get caught by their tactic. YOU are sloppy.
then
2San said:
How so? The whole point for choosing the SOS over the gnasher is the bullet spread so you don't have to aim.
reggie said:
It could be said that if you fall into a SOS users trap that you are just as bad as them. It's extremely easy to avoid and counter.
See how you fail to reply to the argument of the bullet spread?
reggie said:
It was the go to weapon in Gears 1/2. Now the game is actually balanced. Every weapon has a counter. You sit here bitching about how the SOS is broken, yet probably haven't even considered that the Gnasher was broken originally (Gears 1/2) and has now been fixed.
And Gears 1 and 2 where more fun if you actually managed to find a match that worked with minimal lag. The Gnasher was broken, but that was mostly due to the rifles being underpowered. Which have gotten their much needed damage boost. The lancer is the strongest weapon in the game which is fine.

I never said the SOS is broken. The problem is the weapon is cheap. People who use it go for cheap kills. You don't even need to aim the weapon. It took away the whole fun of close range combat.
reggie said:
I get your point - that it's easy to camp and get kills with. At the same time if you're falling into that same trap you're just as bad as he is.
I don't fall for SOS most of the time, but the problem here is. To properly counter a SOS player. You are spending a lot of time for one guy who probably isn't even that good. If have to take my time with a skilled player that's fine, but for every one and every nut just takes away a lot of speed and fun out of the game.
 

reggie

Banned
Guess who brought up the sloppy argument first:

2San said:
Is it really that hard to understand that while the SOS isn't OPed it kills a lot of fun and it rewards sloppy gameplay.

I didn't change the argument, I was responding to your argument.

You said it's sloppy and I didn't disagree, but I did say that it could be argued that you too are sloppy if you fall in to the same old traps.
 

2San

Member
reggie said:
Guess who brought up the sloppy argument first:

I didn't change the argument, I was responding to your argument.
I'm talking about that the SOS is essentially a Gnasher with increased bullet spread so you don't need to aim 'thus' promotes sloppy play. You failed to address the whole bullet spread part.
 

reggie

Banned
2San said:
I'm talking about that the SOS is essentially a Gnasher with increased bullet spread so you don't need to aim 'thus' promotes sloppy play. You failed to address the whole bullet spread part.
What do you want me to say? The SOS is easy to use, I never once said otherwise. My point has always been that it is easy to counter and avoid to where it's not even the tiniest problem.
 

2San

Member
reggie said:
What do you want me to say? The SOS is easy to use, I never once said otherwise. My point has always been that it is easy to counter and avoid to where it's not even the tiniest problem.
Yeah, by the ease of use it promotes sloppy play. Playing in a way where you don't even need to aim is sloppy to me.
 

reggie

Banned
2San said:
Yeah, by the ease of use it promotes sloppy play. Playing in a way where you don't even need to aim is sloppy to me.
The only way this can be a problem is if you get caught in to their traps. Like I've said ad nauseum, avoid falling in to their traps and problem solved.

These so called 'sloppy' players were never going to give you a good fight anyway. Removing the SOS does not solve this.
 

zlatko

Banned
Robot Pants said:

Never made sense they didn't put this in 2 or 3. It's THE best part of Gears for me. This song got my nips hard. My online buddies and I always sound out the duna na na na na part when one of us comes back from AFK or just signs on to jump into party chat. :p

As for the the first subject of dedicated servers I see discussed I think I've just come to the conclusion that the reason I get this bad of an experience is thanks to my location of being in central USA. It's often like this with games that my competition found in matches from the states around me is just the worst of the worst, and the internet available to people in this section of the USA is awful. In Street Fighter 4 when I get my laggy matches I'll look at locations and it's always surprising to me that most of them are from people living near me rather than people on either coast. Their play style is always the absolute worst too. No combos, jump back fireball, always uppercut on wake up, etc.

This is probably the reason when the dedi's are down it's so bad for me. They are almost ALL SOS users to begin with, and if dedi's go down then their trash connections might get snatched up as host, which just turns the game to crap. My friend from Alaska always pointed this out to me in other games, and I think he might be right.

Is there a dedicated server for the central states, the west coast, and east coast?

Now on to the SOS. It's easy to counter? ON PAPER SURE! I mean everything is easy to counter on paper, but the fact is your ideal situation is NOT going to be what plays out. The situation that caused me to chuck a controller yesterday was this:

I'm at the place where nades spawn at Trashball. I'm where the nades pop, he's down one of the hallways with a SOS. He rushes me, so I start unloading Lancer as he just side rolls towards me and I'm backing up. He pops to another wall and shoots at that wall, and I'm basically 270 degrees the other way behind him and he gets the kill.

What did I do wrong? I used my rifle. I backed off. What did he do right? Nothing. He rushed a rifle user down a hallway for easy bullets to hit him, he wall hopped to the wrong wall not close to me, and he did NOT aim in the right direction. Yet what was the result? He got rewarded for hitting the right trigger.

Let's look at a map like Hotel. TDM, 5 SOS users on the other team. Where should you go? The answer is outside. If you go inside you will probably lose the fight for the torque, and the digger/boom will help you a lot more to flush out corner campers. However, can you count all the corners they can camp in there? It's a lot. So what does this do to movement? Cripples it. I am now forced to check EVERY corner. ALL of them. Even then if they get a good corner position you can't see them sticking out or their shadow, and then you going around results in death. Someone camping around a corner like that with Gnasher is NOT a guaranteed kill like the SOS is. In old Gears games if someone camped a corner with Gnasher you guys were at a 50-50. The person willing to engage the camper wasn't auto screwed, because with a good angle wall slide, it could result in the camper missing their shot, and BOOM you have a shotgun battle to tackle. With the SOS you don't get this, your good angle slides won't matter due to it's arc, range, and insta kill powers.

Simply put, a SOS user around a corner results in you having to give up on him and going to a different part of the map. No other weapon you spawn with can do this. Power weapons should have this kind of effect. You should be afraid of boomers, torque, diggers, etc near you, but spawn weapons being able to control map space like that is idiotic.

Let me guess, you want to say, go with a buddy? You both run the risk of dying thanks to its arc. Or one of you will die and the other lives. What happens then? The SOS user will shoot and run. With so much cover he can make his daring escape more often than not.

What has this changed to the overall flow of combat? Encouraged a shit ton of campers. People with their buffed up rifles now on Gridlock willingly go up to towers to camp so they can avoid SOS users. Too many games boil down to people around corners, and people moving not far from spawn with rifles. An entire team holding down the top of Thrashball is a fight you cannot win.

If this is the future of Gears of War, then count me out. The last 5 years was not about corners and cowering like a bitch, nor was it about shooting 1 shot, then running away. Don't get me wrong though, I still stand by this game being one of the best console experiences out there, if not the best, but my luck for finding fun games is shitty it seems.

Also, to those defending the SOS. Let's hear some examples of what it ADDS to the game. What is it about this weapon that makes this game funner to play ? I'd love to hear this.
 

razu

Member
@Arjen - You could always... grow some balls! :) :) :) If you fear the SOS then yes, the pace of play changes. However, I don't feel I die more from the SOS now than I used to die from being one shot killed from the Gnasher before. Pile in and take your chances! I mean really, active gnasher at zero range has always been deadly. So, if you assume the opponent can aim, then SOS is not much different to the Gnasher. And fuck it, use the SOS from time to time, if only because it sounds so awesome! It's not that cheap, you have to get in range, and that's where the skill lies with that weapon. Arguably it requires more skill than sitting half the map away with a zoomed in sniper rifle...

I love killing people with the Gnasher, and this version of the game hasn't broken that for me. I play Warzone and TDM. My K/D and W/L hover around 1.0, which seems pretty good for someone who plays solely with randoms, and who suffers from the Rambo gene :)


BTW, are all community threads this dire? Dominated by someone who wants to "win" the thread? Only, ignored posts interrupt the flow of the page, and you still get their quotes when people fall into their traps...
 

reggie

Banned
razu said:
BTW, are all community threads this dire? Dominated by someone who wants to "win" the thread? Only, ignored posts interrupt the flow of the page, and you still get their quotes when people fall into their traps...
Who is this aimed at?
 

Arjen

Member
razu said:
@Arjen - You could always... grow some balls! :) :) :) If you fear the SOS then yes, the pace of play changes. However, I don't feel I die more from the SOS now than I used to die from being one shot killed from the Gnasher before. Pile in and take your chances! I mean really, active gnasher at zero range has always been deadly. So, if you assume the opponent can aim, then SOS is not much different to the Gnasher. And fuck it, use the SOS from time to time, if only because it sounds so awesome! It's not that cheap, you have to get in range, and that's where the skill lies with that weapon. Arguably it requires more skill than sitting half the map away with a zoomed in sniper rifle...

I love killing people with the Gnasher, and this version of the game hasn't broken that for me. I play Warzone and TDM. My K/D and W/L hover around 1.0, which seems pretty good for someone who plays solely with randoms, and who suffers from the Rambo gene :)


BTW, are all community threads this dire? Dominated by someone who wants to "win" the thread? Only, ignored posts interrupt the flow of the page, and you still get their quotes when people fall into their traps...

Again, i've been trying to explain it before, and i think Zlatko said it best a couple of posts up. It's not the problem i'm having 1on1 with a SoS user, it's how the gun affected the gameplay and the flow of the game.
 

zlatko

Banned
reggie said:
Who is this aimed at?

Who cares? Just speak what's on your mind without being offensive is the point of NeoGAF right?

It's a shame that the SOS is hogging up this much of the discussion sure, but it's something worth discussing in hopes it might lead to better understanding of its issues and probable ways to handle it.

It's a flavor of the month discussion. Most community threads go in cycles. SC2 GAF cycle is balance whine -> hate on X player -> Yoshi broke a keyboard -> Ponies -> back to balance whine. :p

So Gears 3 will probably be SOS sucks -> Are Dedi's up? -> DLC - > trade codes -> who wants to play together -> back to SOS sucks.
 

razu

Member
Arjen said:
Again, i've been trying to explain it before, and i think Zlatko said it best a couple of posts up. It's not the problem i'm having 1on1 with a SoS user, it's how the gun affected the gameplay and the flow of the game.

Right, yeah. He makes some good points.

I've not found it that much of a problem, but maybe it's the game modes I play?

Although I have run into some Retro teams. They lobbed in some smokes and all came charging through it with their bayonet things. It was hilarious... the first time it happened. Wore pretty thin, pretty quick ;)
 

zlatko

Banned
razu said:
Right, yeah. He makes some good points.

I've not found it that much of a problem, but maybe it's the game modes I play?

Although I have run into some Retro teams. They lobbed in some smokes and all came charging through it with their bayonet things. It was hilarious... the first time it happened. Wore pretty thin, pretty quick ;)

Reminds me of the beta when my buddies and I played KOTH and all we did was smoke tosses and chainsaws. None of us had a kill outside of chainsawing, and we WON. It was hilarious. xD
 

Addnan

Member
Exe/War 5 rounds this weekend!

and gnasher only playlist, should be interesting.

Can't wait for the SOS playlist, i'm sure the battles will be very fun.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
The lag has been pretty brutal lately. I've also been stuck in the Matrix-esque double cover jump.

I wish we could just get some answers. Are dedicated servers ever coming back? If so, when?
 

TRios Zen

Member
Addnan said:
Exe/War 5 rounds this weekend!

and gnasher only playlist, should be interesting.

Can't wait for the SOS playlist, i'm sure the battles will be very fun.

So the "Hardcore" playlist - gnasher only? Interesting. I've grown so accustomed to using my lancer....I'll feel naked without it! HAHA
 
Addnan said:
Exe/War 5 rounds this weekend!

and gnasher only playlist, should be interesting.
Really? :eek: Who confirmed this?

EDIT: nvm, just saw it's on the event calendar. Wtf could that impossible mission thing be?
 

Addnan

Member
_dementia said:
They're really going to do a gnasher-only playlist?
Yep, this weekend. Details of it are on the calendar.

T8Kt9.jpg
 

2San

Member
_dementia said:
They're really going to do a gnasher-only playlist?
As much as I love the Gnasher. Gnasher-only seems a bit extreme. Why not just classic playlist? :eek: Either way should be fun. :D Hopefully the 5 rounds stay.
 

sajj316

Member
_dementia said:
They're really going to do a gnasher-only playlist?

Time to separate the men from the boys ... gentlemen!

For all those new to Gears .. shotgun battle. Here is how to initiate.

1. You look at me, I look at you
2. We both back up a little bit
3. Strafe left, Strafe right
4. Melee
5. Strafe right, Strafe left
6. Melee
7. Let's get it on ...
 
2San said:
As much as I love the Gnasher. Gnasher-only seems a bit extreme. Why not just classic playlist? :eek: Either way should be fun. :D Hopefully the 5 rounds stay.
Agreed. Gnasher only will be strange but interesting to play - more like nostalgic, haha. And I also can't help but feel they're intentionally dancing around the old school/classic playlist idea for some reason...
 

Lima

Member
sajj316 said:
Time to separate the men from the boys ... gentlemen!

For all those new to Gears .. shotgun battle. Here is how to initiate.

1. You look at me, I look at you
2. We both back up a little bit
3. Strafe left, Strafe right
4. Melee
5. Strafe right, Strafe left
6. Melee
7. Let's get it on ...


Good times....good times.
 

TRios Zen

Member
sajj316 said:
Time to separate the men from the boys ... gentlemen!

For all those new to Gears .. shotgun battle. Here is how to initiate.

1. You look at me, I look at you
2. We both back up a little bit
3. Strafe left, Strafe right
4. Melee
5. Strafe right, Strafe left
6. Melee
7. Let's get it on ...

Seriously? I just melee a couple times (in the open obviously) to initiate, I had no idea there was a dance to it. Never noticed that when opposing players did it either.

Is there a rule book for this stuff?? HAHA.
 

2San

Member
sajj316 said:
Time to separate the men from the boys ... gentlemen!

For all those new to Gears .. shotgun battle. Here is how to initiate.

1. You look at me, I look at you
2. We both back up a little bit
3. Strafe left, Strafe right
4. Melee
5. Strafe right, Strafe left
6. Melee
7. Let's get it on ...
I know this dance, but sometimes people grab the snub pistol and blindfire it on the ground. Why is that?
Seth Balmore said:
Agreed. Gnasher only will be strange but interesting to play - more like nostalgic, haha. And I also can't help but feel they're intentionally dancing around the old school/classic playlist idea for some reason...
It seems they want to test popularity before actually implementing changes.
 

zlatko

Banned
2San said:
I know this dance, but sometimes people grab the snub pistol and blindfire it on the ground. Why is that?

That's the fighting area.

Edit: I think I get why they are doing just a Gnasher only playlist. No one will play it, then when people ask for the classic playlist they can use this as a reasoning to not give it. I hope I'm wrong though and that this Gnash only list is just a SOS-less list.
 

2San

Member
zlatko said:
That's the fighting area.
Ah it all makes sense, I think I always interpreted that correctly.
zlatko said:
Edit: I think I get why they are doing just a Gnasher only playlist. No one will play it, then when people ask for the classic playlist they can use this as a reasoning to not give it. I hope I'm wrong though and that this Gnash only list is just a SOS-less list.
I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to say anything. Since I'm getting pretty critical and suspicious of Epic lately.
 
mickcenary said:
Just hit 50. 75 is going to take forever. Also, I wish it was possible to do the 12 waves of Beast by myself. No mates :(.
Huh? There is nothing stopping you from doing Beast on your own. Unless you mean doing it on Insane without failing.
 
RSTEIN said:
The lag has been pretty brutal lately. I've also been stuck in the Matrix-esque double cover jump.

I wish we could just get some answers. Are dedicated servers ever coming back? If so, when?
Surprisingly, the servers seemed to iron themselves out after you two left last night. We ended up playing for quite a bit with little to no problems. I think the game was punishing you for stealing kills. D;
 

Lima

Member
AndyMoogle said:
Huh? There is nothing stopping you from doing Beast on your own. Unless you mean doing it on Insane without failing.

I did it on insane by myself once just to try it out. Took me 2 hours to get through all the waves. Shit is serious alone.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
ThirdEngine said:
Surprisingly, the servers seemed to iron themselves out after you two left last night. We ended up playing for quite a bit with little to no problems. I think the game was punishing you for stealing kills. D;

tango down
 
zlatko said:
When they say Gnasher only does it mean, nothing else at all? That is too extreme. How about just SOS-less playlist ?

I imagine it will be just like the Torque Bow Only list, all Torque Bows and a starting pistol.
 

zlatko

Banned
Host retro is a nightmare. I also hate that from the beta they changed how now you only need 1 second(not even) of holding down B with it to be considered in a charge. The two piece is back and it's with the Retro. :/

Also, fuck people going afk in KOTH.
 

zlatko

Banned
Alienshogun said:
Keep it comin'!

What I can't speak plainly? You can two piece with retro. They changed how fast the charge is from the beta with it that you just need to move 2 feet during it for it to count as a stab.

People going AFK in KOTH sucks.

Did I come in with a salty opinion? The truth is the truth, unless you think people going AFK on your team during KOTH matches is a good thing.
 
Mikasangelos said:
oh man this weekend? Gotta finish Batman
Gotta go fast.

Heh, If I ever get that game, I'll probably just bee too tempted to go around and do batman shit instead of progressing the story missions.
 
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