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[ISee]

Huh? Every single major pollster has them below that number. AfD is actually averaging at around 9%.

http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

Sure. This, as always, depends on the institute that is doing the poll,the day, the region etc. I'm on mobile atm and not able to access my desktop browsing history from yesterday, but AfD often enough lands above 10%.

I also don't care if it is 12% or 9% atm. My point is that AfD has a high chance to become the third strongest faction in our parliament. Which is a problem.

Further people tend to hide and don't answer truthfully when it comes to voting for extremist parties/opinions in a survey. Take the US election or the brexit as examples. Surveys were fine, the outcomes but so much. If AfD doesn't get 10%+ fine, but I fear we all will wake up with a bit rate in our mouth the day after the election.

 

[Frankfurter]

Sure. This, as always, depends on the institute that is doing the poll,the day, the region etc. I'm on mobile atm and not able to access my desktop browsing history from yesterday, but AfD often enough lands above 10%.



I also don't care if it is 12% or 9% atm. My point is that AfD has a high chance to become the third strongest faction in our parliament. Which is a problem.

Again, currently AfD polls at 11% at one of the major polling institutes. One has them at 10%, one at 9%, two at 8% and two at 7%.
It surely is a problem that the AfD will most likely make it to the Bundestag, but that was to be expected tbh. Germany is actually a beacon of non-right wing parties success, relatively speaking. See France, Switzerland, Poland, the UK, the US etc. etc.

 

[ISee]

Again, currently AfD polls at 11% at one of the major polling institutes. One has them at 10%, one at 9%, two at 8% and two at 7%.
It surely is a problem that the AfD will most likely make it to the Bundestag, but that was to be expected tbh. Germany is actually a beacon of non-right wing parties success, relatively speaking. See France, Switzerland, Poland, the UK, the US etc. etc.

Are we trying to transform our democracy into a regime like Kaczynski, Erdogan or orban? Thank God no. But we have a nationalistic, xenophobic party moving into the Bundestag by taking ~10% of the votes. But sure, there is no problem and Germany is a beacon of of non-right.

Again it doesn't matter if it is 9% our 13% in the end. They will be there, every body will downplay and ignore them. But the fact alone makes me feel bad and I only see it getting worse over time.

 

[Orniletter]

The two biggest parties in a democracy forming a coalition all the time is a huge problem. Am I the only one seeing that? It nullifies voting and 'great coalitions' are a huge problem for people who want to vote against the current ruling party. What am I supposed to vote if I don't want CDU to rule and SPD joins them again and again and again?
There is a big chance we'll see a third CDU-SPD coalition in Germany, in a row! That's a democracy going wrong.

Nah. Just nah.

Fact is, the majority of Germans votes for the SPD or CDU. Both parties are very close politically and people at large don't seem to resent our current grand coalition or else we'd have seen a huge shift either to the SPD or CDU. Or to some other party.

This is what doesn't seem to get into anyone's head who keeps talking about how the SPD should move further to the left or how we really should give the left a chance to form a progressive coaltion. This is why Schulz's empty "need for change" rhetoric falls on deaf ears:

People don't want change in these tumultuous times and are fine with how things are going, because we are indeed pretty well off as a country.

This is not "democracy going wrong", like the perverted take on democracy through first past the post or the electoral college. This is the voting population getting what it wants. To bad if you don't want the CDU in government. 39 % of the voting population wants them though.

 

[Frankfurter]

Are we trying to transform our democracy into a regime like Kaczynski, Erdogan or orban? Thank God no. But we have a nationalistic, xenophobic party moving into the Bundestag by taking ~10% of the votes. But sure, there is no problem and Germany is a beacon of of non-right.

Again it doesn't matter if it is 9% our 13% in the end. They will be there, every body will downplay and ignore them. But the fact alone makes me feel bad and I only see it getting worse over time.

Please read what I actually wrote:

Germany is actually a beacon of non-right wing parties success, RELATIVELY SPEAKING.

Plus I never said that there is no problem, don't put words into my mouth.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I have a feeling we will end up with CDU/FDP, which will increase Zeitarbeit and rents even more, because FDP are fucking assholes.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

I have a feeling we will end up with CDU/FDP, which will increase Zeitarbeit and rents even more, because FDP are fucking assholes.

I'll take GroKo over CDU/FDP all day every day.

 

[ISee]

Please read what I actually wrote:



Plus I never said that there is no problem, don't put words into my mouth.

I did and I wasn't putting words into your mouth, relatively speaking.

 

[Maedre]

I'll take GroKo over CDU/FDP all day every day.

The problem with Groko is that the second large party is dying in it. The need time in the opposition to regain their profile. You cant fight against the CDU if you are technically a part of it.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I'll take GroKo over CDU/FDP all day every day.

Yep, too bad CDU wouldn't.

 

[Oersted]

I have a feeling we will end up with CDU/FDP, which will increase Zeitarbeit and rents even more, because FDP are fucking assholes.

Germany is afraid of foreigners, ain't nobody got time for that stuff.

They are all the same anyway. /s

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Germany is afraid of foreigners, ain't nobody got time for that stuff.

They are all the same anyway. /s

I really wonder why they are still in panic mode over the AFD and feel like pandering to that base is still top priority after AFD already hit 10% and lower. The media as well. Get to issues that actually cause these things.

Someone in Zeitarbeit for a decade will search for reasons like foreigners to blame his shitty life on. Maybe make his life better so he doesn't feel the need to blame anyone for anything. Nah, pandering to landlords and employers is the better option.

I once thought that maybe being a landlord might be tricky because I've never been in that situation but after I met multiple of these people always whining how there's barely any money left for them after taxes and whatnot and they have like 7k per month on top of their property I find pandering to these useless ticks on society appalling

 

[Muffin1611]

Why are AfD, CSU and FDP now peddling some bullshit about nitrogen dioxide in offices? Is this supposed to downplay the Diesel-stuff?

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Why are AfD, CSU and FDP now peddling some bullshit about nitrogen dioxide in offices? Is this supposed to downplay the Diesel-stuff?

Of course.

 

[Muffin1611]

Of course.

It seems that this is a few days old already, just now noticed it. Apparently Söder and Lindner both took it from the AfD and just went with it without checking it.

 

[AmFreak]

Currently running on ZDF: "Schlagabtausch - Der TV-Dreikampf von Linken, Grünen und CSU"

How random can you get?

 

[Staf]

As an outsider with no stake in the outcome, i'm from Sweden, i hope Merkel wins. The world could use some stability right about now.

 

[kingkaiser]

If you can decrypt the flowery euphemism of "more democracy in the economy", it is quite obvious what kind of economic paradigm the Linke is proposing in its program, and history does not cast a favourable light on past and contemporary attempts in that direction. To say that this is just like the SPD of the 70ties is ignorant.

The only thing quite obvious with their "euphemism" is that they want strong Unions back in Germany, to fight for fair wage agreements and against employers who exploit their workforce.

Quite horrible for people rooting for neoliberalism and predatory capitalism, I know.

 

[oti]

Fünfkampf Live Now!

Linke, Grüne, CSU, FDP, AFD

I feel like this could be a VERY good Trinkspiel.



http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/livestreams/livestream3/index.html

 

[Shiggy]

The studio looks a tad bit small.

 

[ElTorro]

The only thing quite obvious with their "euphemism" is that they want strong Unions back in Germany, to fight for fair wage agreements and against employers who exploit their workforce.

Right. You have never read their program, right?

Quite horrible for people rooting for neoliberalism and predatory capitalism, I know.

A good first step out of your political illiteracy would be to actually read and compare political programs before making absurd statements, not to throw around vacuous fighting words.

 

[kingkaiser]

Man, Lindner is furious when Wagenknecht spilled it in to his face how much privatization of core industries was and still is screwing up our country.

 

[Oersted]

Why are AfD, CSU and FDP now peddling some bullshit about nitrogen dioxide in offices? Is this supposed to downplay the Diesel-stuff?

AfD bullshit, based on focus.de, Germany's bottom of journalism.


There are indeed less tough emission restrictions at certain working places because at some places, like nuclear power plants ... well you get the point.

The streets aka outside aka were elderly, kids, pregnant women etc run around should be of course less dangerous than a fucking nuclear power plant.

More here

http://faktenfinder.tagesschau.de/stickstoffdioxid-grenzwerte-arbeitsplatz-101.html

The kind of shit happens when journalists to dumb to breathe are discovered by wanna be politicians, who are to dumb to breath.

 

[oti]

The moderator slapping Wagenknecht was pretty great.

 

[kingkaiser]

A good first step out of your political illiteracy would be to actually read and compare political programs before making absurd statements, not to throw around vacuous fighting words.

Funny that of all the people it's the conservative and neoliberal parties who want to keep poeple illiterate. Voting for parties like CDU/CSU/FDP means to vote for the big capitalists, nothing more.

 

[Muffin1611]

A good first step out of your political illiteracy would be to actually read and compare political programs before making absurd statements, not to throw around vacuous fighting words.

As much as I don't like some of the economic politics of Die Linke, CDU/CSU and FDP especially are quite neoliberal. As you say, people should look at political programs and their plans. One look at both parties job politics can tell you as much.

 

[ElTorro]

As much as I don't like some of the economic politics of Die Linke, CDU/CSU and FDP especially are quite neoliberal. As you say, people should look at political programs and their plans. One look at both parties job politics can tell you as much.

Neoliberalism nowadays is literally a fighting word. It's not a term used in the economic sciences, and its original meaning has little to do with its contemporary use. None of the parties that you mentioned describes itself as "neoliberal".

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Neoliberalism nowadays is literally a fighting word. It's not a term used in the economic sciences, and its original meaning has little to do with its contemporary use. None of the parties that you mentioned describes itself as "neoliberal".

It'a basically as stupid as calling every Linke voter "Antifa".

 

[Muffin1611]

Neoliberalism nowadays is literally a fighting word. It's not a term used in the economic sciences, and its original meaning has little to do with its contemporary use. None of the parties that you mentioned describes itself as "neoliberal".

Semantics. I guess capitalism with little governmental restriction then? I thought it's pretty clear what I meant, but if there's a better word for it, sure.

It'a basically as stupid as calling every Linke voter "Antifa".

One of the two terms has or had actual political meaning, so no.

I mean, yeah, I've seen it used just as fighting words, but not as just that. Didn't know that it's original meaning isn't that prominent anymore.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Right. You have never read their program, right?



A good first step out of your political illiteracy would be to actually read and compare political programs before making absurd statements, not to throw around vacuous fighting words.

I know for a fact that FDP is completely ok with how Zeit/Leiharbeit is handled right now, reasoning with bullshit like: "These jobs are a great starting point for careers." Fucking lol.

And we all know how FDP views Mietpreisbremsen. Those poor poor landlords are stripped off the right to charge double the rent whenever they feel like it.
You don't want them to get called neoliberal? How about they are scum then? Plain and simple. There was a reason nobody but employers and the Hotel-sector voted for them anymore and the only reason that has changed is Lindner.

The fact that this guy said "Hey, I'm totally not giving a fuck about NRW, if you vote me I'm still going to go to Berlin." and actually won is hilarious and sad.

 

[ElTorro]

Semantics. I guess capitalism with little governmental restriction then? I thought it's pretty clear what I meant, but if there's a better word for it, sure.

Usually, it's not clear at all what people really mean when they talk about "neoliberalism", precisely because it's a fighting word; ambiguous, noncommittal, easy to use; not used to describe a specific policy, but to crudely name a group of perceived adversaries. For instance, a lot of people do not even distinguish between economic policies and social policies when they talk about it.

It's similar to the derogatory use of "socialist" or "marxist" by the American right, only that these words at least have a meaningful economic/social-scientifc definition.

 

[Oersted]

I really wonder why they are still in panic mode over the AFD and feel like pandering to that base is still top priority after AFD already hit 10% and lower. The media as well. Get to issues that actually cause these things.

Someone in Zeitarbeit for a decade will search for reasons like foreigners to blame his shitty life on. Maybe make his life better so he doesn't feel the need to blame anyone for anything. Nah, pandering to landlords and employers is the better option.

I once thought that maybe being a landlord might be tricky because I've never been in that situation but after I met multiple of these people always whining how there's barely any money left for them after taxes and whatnot and they have like 7k per month on top of their property I find pandering to these useless ticks on society appalling

Less panic, more laziness and greed.

Many groups which deserve more attention are too busy getting trough the day or are simply shamed into silence.

Any single group of immigrants(except turkish people*), single parents, disabled people, the poor, you name it, they might as well not exist based on the national discourse. Its muslims, muslims, muslims, insert pathetic CSU filler like tolls, muslims, muslims. And sometimes some progress like open marriage.

Barely anyone poor has time and courage to speak up, most migrant groups don't have lobbies and since SPD has largely abandoned unions, the discourse has largely abandoned the needs of germans and fully embraced their fears. Its a easy sell, needs barely any research(coverage comes from smartphones around the world) and provides black and white moral, which makes it ideal for storytelling. They need a baddie and who is the baddie when it comes to the lack of nurses?


*not a jab against turkish people, the opposite in fact

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Usually, it's not clear at all what people really mean when they talk about "neoliberalism", precisely because it's a fighting word; ambiguous, noncommittal, easy to use; not used to describe a specific policy, but to crudely name a group of perceived adversaries. For instance, a lot of people do not even distinguish between economic policies and social policies when they talk about it.

It's similar to the derogatory use of "socialist" or "marxist" by the American right, only that these words at least have a meaningful economic/social-scientifc definition.

It's pretty clear what they mean by that. Favouring employers over employees, landlords over the renter and so on and so forth. Give these corporations the freedom to make as much money as possible, do away with unions, Mietpreisbremsen and everything that hinders them to do whatever they want, as long it's good for the economy.

Maybe they don't distinguish between the two because they go hand in hand? Naaah, can't be. Also wondering why you ignore me but hey, you do you.

Less panic, more laziness and greed.

Many groups which deserve more attention are too busy getting trough the day or are simply shamed into silence.

Any single group of immigrants(except turkish people*), single parents, disabled people, the poor, you name it, they might as well not exist based on the national discourse. Its muslims, muslims, muslims, insert pathetic CSU filler like tolls, muslims, muslims. And sometimes some progress like open marriage.

Barely anyone poor has time and courage to speak up, most migrant groups don't have lobbies and since SPD has largely abandoned unions, the discourse has largely abandoned the needs of germans and fully embraced their fears. Its a easy sell, needs barely any research(coverage comes from smartphones around the world) and provides black and white moral, which makes it ideal for storytelling. They need a baddie and who is the baddie when it comes to the lack of nurses?

But these fears pander mostly to the people that vote CDU/CSU and AFD, so I don't get why the media is still going at it so hard. I understand why CDU/CSU and AFD are going for it.

 

[kingkaiser]

Every party that is against the minimum wage is a henchman of the neoliberalism, call it what you want, the big businesses only wanting to maximum profits without giving anything back to their employees.

I remember how two years ago my former employer, a very vocal CDU voter, started to axe jobs...ehm rationalize workplaces despite stable revenue and profits.
Turns out he wasn't satisfied with stability, it's always more, more and more for those people and they are willing to achieve this at any cost.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Every party that is against the minimum wage is a henchman of the neoliberalism, call it what you want, the big businesses only wanting to maximum profits without giving anything back to their employees.

I remember how two years ago my former employer, a very vocal CDU voter, started to axe jobs...ehm rationalize workplaces despite stable revenue and profits.
Turns out he wasn't satisfied with stability, it's always more, more and more for those people and they are willing to achieve this at any cost.

This exactly.
I did Zeitarbeit once out of curiosity because I still had to wait a few months for my next job, and since then I want to punch everyone who thinks those are good jobs and that nothing is wrong with them in their lying face, which includes the entirety of the FDP. Shit was modern slavery.

 

[Oersted]

It's pretty clear what they mean by that. Favouring employers over employees, landlords over the renter and so on and so forth. Give these corporations the freedom to make as much money as possible, do away with unions, Mietpreisbremsen and everything that hinders them to do whatever they want, as long it's good for the economy.

Maybe they don't distinguish between the two because they go hand in hand? Naaah, can't be. Also wondering why you ignore me but hey, you do you.



But these fears pander mostly to the people that vote CDU/CSU and AFD, so I don't get why the media is still going at it so hard. I understand why CDU/CSU and AFD are going for it.

The "Lügenpresse" accusation makes it a bit forgotten, but parts of the media are partly the problem. Bild, Sat1, Focus.de etc

 

[Wamb0wneD]

The "Lügenpresse" accusation makes it a bit forgotten, but parts of the media are partly the problem. Bild, Sat1, Focus.de etc

Oh for sure, but if I look at the TV duel yesterday none of those were part of the moderation table. That's what surprised me so much. It's as if BILD and co were part of it.

 

[Oersted]

Oh for sure, but if I look at the TV duel yesterday none of those were part of the moderation table. That's what surprised me so much. It's as if BILD and co were part of it.

Strunz was there. Leading man of Sat1; producer of the "Frühstücksfernsehen", the biggest pile of shit in german TV(parts QVC, parts AfD TV, parts AstroTV) and yes, he ran Bild a few years ago.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Strunz was there. Leading man of Sat1; producer of the "Frühstücksfernsehen", the biggest pile of shit in german TV(parts QVC, parts AfD TV, parts AstroTV) and yes, he ran Bild a few years ago.

Ooooh I knew about the Sat.1 thing but not that he led BILD. Alright, point taken.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Strunz was a disgrace, might as well let Gauleiter ask the questions for SAT1.

 

[hanspampel]

AfD bullshit, based on focus.de, Germany's bottom of journalism.


There are indeed less tough emission restrictions at certain working places because at some places, like nuclear power plants ... well you get the point.

The streets aka outside aka were elderly, kids, pregnant women etc run around should be of course less dangerous than a fucking nuclear power plant.

More here

http://faktenfinder.tagesschau.de/stickstoffdioxid-grenzwerte-arbeitsplatz-101.html

The kind of shit happens when journalists to dumb to breathe are discovered by wanna be politicians, who are to dumb to breath.

why the hell do you bring up nuclear power plants?
those have lower nitrogen dioxide than most other regular workplaces

snip.

bro i get your point, it's just that a nuclear power plant is one of the worst possible examples you could've used to prove your point
it even makes you look like someone supporting the green party, or at least their views on this matter, and thus being biased

motor car mechanic or anything with welding
steelworks

those would've been way more fitting examples

 

[Oersted]

Ooooh I knew about the Sat.1 thing but not that he led BILD. Alright, point taken.

The better question is" how do we get out of this" anyway.

why the hell do you bring up nuclear power plants?
those have lower nitrogen dioxide than most other regular workplaces

Why the hell didn't I make it clear enough that I was talking about limits in general and not exclusively about nitrogen dioxide?

Good question hanspambel, good question. To talk exclusively about nitrogen dioxide limits.

Working places are areas for grownups, visiting the place for a limited time. Due to that are many limits less strict. When grownups go out, they are supposed to able to regenerate in a world, which elderly, pregnant women and children also inhabit. Of course there are tougher limits on that area.

Now you might wonder, what about pregnant women who are still working? Or elderly? Might the limits not be strict enough? Well the WHO thinks so and the EU will likely follow suit.

 

[c0de]

Strunz was there. Leading man of Sat1; producer of the "Frühstücksfernsehen", the biggest pile of shit in german TV(parts QVC, parts AfD TV, parts AstroTV) and yes, he ran Bild a few years ago.

What? He is neither the leading man of Sat1, nor the producer of the "Frühstücksfernsehen".
edit: well, he is somehow responsible for the Frühstücksfernsehen but not the leading man of Sat1. And he didn't run Bild but had a crucial role for BamS.

 

[Xando]

Strunz was a disgrace, might as well let Gauleiter ask the questions for SAT1.

All the moderators were shit.

Get back stefan raab or get Böhmermann to do it

 

[Oersted]

What? He is neither the leading man of Sat1, nor the producer of the "Frühstücksfernsehen".
edit: well, he is somehow responsible for the Frühstücksfernsehen but not the leading man of Sat1. And he didn't run Bild but had a crucial role for BamS.

Leading man as in figurehead for anything politics.

He runs Maz & More TV Produktion which produces Frühstücksfernsehen.

But yes, I wasn't precise enough. He was "only" second in command chief editor at Welt, "only" ran the Sunday version of Bild, ran "only" the video section of Springer and now runs the Springer company Maz & More TV Produktion.
I think its still fair to call him a Bild/Springer guy.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...del-verlaesst-vorzeitig-ZDF-Live-Sendung.html


Poor Alice, couldn't handle the truth. (Höcke being a storybook Neonazi).

 

[Bedameister]

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...del-verlaesst-vorzeitig-ZDF-Live-Sendung.html


Poor Alice, couldn't handle the truth. (Höcke being a storybook Neonazi).

You know you're a nazi if someone from the CSU
calls you a nazi

 

[Muffin1611]

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...del-verlaesst-vorzeitig-ZDF-Live-Sendung.html


Poor Alice, couldn't handle the truth. (Höcke being a storybook Neonazi).

Just came in to post this. So good.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Just came in to post this. So good.

Quite evident that this was staged by the AfD from the very beginning of the show, now everyone will talk about this and they can show "proof" that ÖRR is part of the fake news.

 

[Muffin1611]

Quite evident that this was staged by the AfD from the very beginning of the show, now everyone will talk about this and they can show "proof" that ÖRR is part of the fake news.

Yeah, no surprise there. Comments under every report of this are full of these guys already.