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[Antiochus]

At least if that's what Thomas de Maiziere, interior minister of Germany, is proposing right now:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...idUSKCN0WU147?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said he is planning a new law that will require refugees to learn German and integrate into society, or else lose their permanent right of residence.

The initiative comes after voters punished Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives in regional elections earlier this month, giving a thumbs-down to her open-door refugee policy and turning in droves to the anti-immigrant party Alternative for Germany (AfD).

Around 1 million migrants arrived in Germany last year - many fleeing conflict and economic hardship in the Middle East and Africa - and de Maiziere said around 100,000 more had arrived so far this year.

Germany expected that in return for language lessons, social benefits and housing, the new arrivals made an effort to integrate, he told ARD television.

"For those who refuse to learn German, for those who refuse to allow their relatives to integrate - for instance women or girls - for those who reject job offers: for them, there cannot be an unlimited settlement permit after three years," he said.

De Maiziere, who belongs to Merkel's conservatives party, added that he wanted "a link between successful integration and the permission for how long one is allowed to stay in Germany."

Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel welcomed the draft law, which is planned for May.

"We must not only support integration but demand it," Gabriel told mass-selling daily Bild.

Gabriel's Social Democrats, the junior partner in Germany's ruling coalition with Merkel's conservatives, also suffered losses in this month's elections in three German states.

 

[Christopher]

Doesn't seem to be a negative thing at all.

 

[CrocMother]

I honestly don't know enough about the conditions for immigrants inside Germany to have an informed opinion about the policy, but this is going to be fascinating to watch unfold.

 

[Shiggy]

How to practically measure the degree of integration?

 

[Saucycarpdog]

How to practically measure the degree of integration?

Well he said in the article they need to learn German as a start.

 

[antonz]

Integration is absolutely needed for long term success. Cannot let area's build up full of people who have no desire to become apart of whatever nation they have arrived in.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

How to practically measure the degree of integration?

Lederhosen

 

[Miles X]

Good? Feel like you're fishing for negativity on this OP. No person should move to another country and not intergrate themselves and abide/respect the culture of the place.

 

[CrocMother]

Is there a policy of mandatory schooling for all children in Germany?

 

[Alavard]

For those who reject job offers?

 

[TM94]

You would've thought this would be mandatory anyway but welcome news nonetheless.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

There is a fine line between integration and assimilation.

 

[entremet]

There's a culture clash where the governing elites of Europe encouraged keeping ethnic identity traditional, yet just now changing tune.

It's a hard transition and won't happen overnight.

America has a more melting pot ethic that should be model here, but that's built into our culture.

 

[Kinyou]

Is there a policy of mandatory schooling for all children in Germany?

Yes. Homeschooling is also illegal

 

[JesseEwiak]

Ironic, going by their history in America, many German immigrants would've been kicked out of America based on these rules. There were German speaking only portions of Texas up until the early 1900's.

 

[Zipzo]

Is learning German actually necessary to get by in Germany? When I visited basically everyone spoke English, seriously, everyone.

 

[Guevara]

Sounds super reasonable to me, but I doubt Germany would actually enforce it.

 

[victreeb3l]

Cool thats reasonable. So what programs are in place to help migrants integrate? Language is definitely a huge barrier so will there by arabic translators helping the adults? The younger children should have an easier time picking things up in school.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Integration is no one way street.
Germany has to offer programs like language courses and other things and the immigrants on the other hand have to do their part, too.

 

[CrocMother]

Ironic, going by their history in America, many German immigrants would've been kicked out of America based on these rules. There were German speaking only portions of Texas up until the early 1900's.

Bit of a different scenario there. Those towns were self-sufficient rural communities and in the middle of nowhere. Also would be a decent bet that many of them could speak English.

 

[YourMaster]

Sounds really naive to me. Like the problem is the immigrants are refusing all those job offers they are getting.

 

[CrocMother]

Yes. Homeschooling is also illegal

I think one of the main road blocks is going to be that the immigrants will refuse to allow their girls to attend schools or integrate in any way.

 

[yanipheonu]

I look forward to how they decide to empirically measure "integration".

Or how they plan to somehow plan to stifle the numerous cultures that are crossing their border.

In general, this seems to misunderstand how culture works.

 

[ElTorro]

Good.

I do not see how anyone can be against this after giving this issue some thought. The language aspect is a good example. There are communities here where especially the elder women cannot speak German, even after having lived here for some decades. Not only do their children sometimes speak broken German as a result, the women are completely dependent on the males in their family to do any basic business outside of their communities. They have no change of find a job on their own, of making friends outside of their communities, or even go to the doctors on their own. Long-term, this leads to isolationism with all kinds of negative consequences, including disadvantages in education and jobs for the entire community.

If you cannot accept the fundamental values of a society and are not willing to learn the language to be able to interact with the whole of society, then you are making that society a worse place.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Easy to say hard to do

 

[Linkyn]

I look forward to how they decide to empirically measure "integration".

Or how they plan to somehow plan to stifle the numerous cultures that are crossing their border.

In general, this seems to misunderstand how culture works.

The way I understand it, it's mostly about whether people participate in language classes and look for work or accept jobs / training they are offered.

 

[haxamin]

Im ok with this.

Spoiler

Watch as this thread spirals out of control

 

[ISOM]

I think one of the main road blocks is going to be that the immigrants will refuse to allow their girls to attend schools or integrate in any way.

Well they can go back to their war torn countries then. I don't think such repressive cultural ideas should be allowed.

 

[Christopher]

Ironic, going by their history in America, many German immigrants would've been kicked out of America based on these rules. There were German speaking only portions of Texas up until the early 1900's.

This is 2016 what's your point?

 

[Kenshin001]

So the husband gets a job, learns German. Keeps his wife at home, doesn't let her get a job. What happens after 3 years? Do they revoke the visas of the whole family?

 

[AYF 001]

Is learning German actually necessary to get by in Germany? When I visited basically everyone spoke English, seriously, everyone.

Off the top of my head, I believe German is the national language. But like most of Europe, people there almost have to be multilingual due to the proximity the UK, France, Spain, and Germany all have to one another. Not to mention all the U.S. business and tourism. Same with Northern Europe too.

 

[Mrmartel]

The very least the migrants can do. Smart words/thoughts from a German minister.

 

[| Praxis |]

Learning the language of your new home country should be the absolute least mandatory expectation for every immigrant.

 

[Deserted Maniac Island]

I think one of the main road blocks is going to be that the immigrants will refuse to allow their girls to attend schools or integrate in any way.

I don't this is the case for the majority of Syrian refugees, I think it's more of Afghani migrants, and maybe some from North Africa. Even in Saudi Arabia women go to university more than men.

 

[Linkyn]

Is learning German actually necessary to get by in Germany? When I visited basically everyone spoke English, seriously, everyone.

Most people can speak English because it is also taught at school, but German is the official language. People speaking English around you is more a courtesy than anything else (and maybe them wanting to whip out a different language).

Edit: This is mostly an issue when dealing with people that aren't as comfortable using a foreign language, people living in more rural areas, older citizens. Unless someone has had a decent education and uses or hears it fairly regularly, I wouldn't expect them to be able to speak any foreign language.

 

[Stumpokapow]

What if the migrants fluently speak English or French (or Italian or Spanish) but not German?

 

[ElTorro]

Learning the language of your new home country should be the absolute least mandatory expectation for every immigrant.

Especially because Germany needs highly skilled immigrant workers to compensate for our shitty birth rates. But language, integration, and education are fundamental requirements to become such a skilled worker. Without them, we will only make our situation worse.

All of this assumes that a significant number of refugees will stay permanently, which I believe will be the case. The situation would be different if we were talking about people who just need to stay temporarily until the situation in their home countries becomes tolerable again. But I do not think that countries like Syria will become truly peaceful anytime soon. Especially many children of refugees will grow up here and see Germany as their home. Many of those will want to stay, and it would be nonsensical and unethical to send them away.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

I look forward to how they decide to empirically measure "integration".

Or how they plan to somehow plan to stifle the numerous cultures that are crossing their border.

In general, this seems to misunderstand how culture works.

"For those who refuse to learn German, for those who refuse to allow their relatives to integrate - for instance women or girls - for those who reject job offers: for them, there cannot be an unlimited settlement permit after three years," he said.

I think it won't be too hard to see if someone tried to integrate or deliberately tried not to.


But keep in mind that we can't send people back to war zones. They will at least stay until its safe to send them back and so far it doesn't look like that'll be anytime soon.

 

[Mrmartel]

What if the migrants fluently speak English or French (or Italian or Spanish) but not German?

Send them to Calais? .... jk

 

[CrocMother]

I don't this is the case for the majority of Syrian refugees, I think it's more of Afghani migrants, and maybe some from North Africa. Even in Saudi Arabia women go to university more than men.

Right, but aren't the schools for women very tightly controlled?

In New York the Hacidic Jews have their own (gender separated) schools and even buses. It wouldn't surprise me if many of them didn't speak English, especially the women. I wonder if that kind of situation would be accepted in German society.

 

[EMT0]

What if the migrants fluently speak English or French (or Italian or Spanish) but not German?

If I move to Germany, I should learn German. Just as I learned English when I first moved to the US, no?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

This is 2016 what's your point?

Go to Miami, and tell all the Spanish only Cuban to learn English. They'll laugh at you, then tell you that you should know Spanish if you're there..

 

[Condom]

I think one of the main road blocks is going to be that the immigrants will refuse to allow their girls to attend schools or integrate in any way.

What makes you think that? Those migrant girls living in Europe right now are doing great at school last time I checked.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Learn the language, get/accept a job, and the implication that kids have to go to school and the disbar girls from schools/jobs is not going to be really accepted in Germany.

This all seems fairly reasonable.

 

[Clott]

I think one of the main road blocks is going to be that the immigrants will refuse to allow their girls to attend schools or integrate in any way.

They might need to find a new home.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

What if the migrants fluently speak English or French (or Italian or Spanish) but not German?

Then they shouldn't end up in Germany in the first place.
This is why Merkel and others are trying to establish a huge refugee camp in Turkey with passable conditions where refugees can stay and be processed and then be sent to a european country. In this processing stage you can consider qualifications like language or whether they have family living in a european country.

Unfortunately many european countries rather ignore the problem than think about solutions.

 

[Darren870]

Ironic, going by their history in America, many German immigrants would've been kicked out of America based on these rules. There were German speaking only portions of Texas up until the early 1900's.

Up until the early 1900's. Before cars and transport were readily available. Before areas were densely populated. In a time where schooling was probably pretty rubbish...

Its now 2016.

All my grandparents moved from Germany to the USA before and after the war. They all left German behind them and never even taught their kids German. My dad only learned German because thats what he learned in school as one of the languages he could pick. None of my grandparents on either side spoke German to their kids.

Its pretty easy to integrate if you want to.

 

[ElTorro]

What if the migrants fluently speak English or French (or Italian or Spanish) but not German?

We do have a growing population of highly skilled people without German skills who went here to university and chose to stay after graduation. For instance, I know tech companies that have hired a lot of Indian/Pakistani graduates and have switched to English internally as a consequence.

However, German is still a requirement if you want to have a career. While English is a required language skill in many industries, you cannot assume that everybody speaks it sufficiently; especially not when it comes to your customers. So all of those students that I know are taking German classes.

 

[injurai]

I thought this was already how it worked in most places.

Germany has to get a handle on this immigration crisis one way or the other.

 

[CrocMother]

What makes you think that? Those migrant girls living in Europe right now are doing great at school last time I checked.

"For those who refuse to learn German, for those who refuse to allow their relatives to integrate - for instance women or girls - for those who reject job offers: for them, there cannot be an unlimited settlement permit after three years," he said.

That