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Ghost Recon Wildlands "we are judges" ring wing propaganda?

"We are judges deciding who will live and who will die"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmzo4KvRmsM

Just slap mentions of job prospects, don't mention anything about PTSD or other ways veterans are treated like dirt when they return, and that Ghost Recon Wildlands trailer could easily be branded as an army recruiting advert. In the UK, we get the Army ads (1), and more recently they've been going hard at younger people (2) (3) which postulate that joining the army means you're doing something important, make a difference, and becoming a better you. It's been catching flak, obviously, for guilt-tripping. The Royal Marines ads go for a darker and frankly creepy tone (1) (2), (3).

So they're continuing the fetish with military operatives who are beyond the law. I'm not getting a slight hint of a critical eye but more a glorifying of the kinds of things that a company like Blackwater does. Considering shooter videogames fund arm manufacturers, maybe developers can't go with an anti-foreign military intervention message at any point? Surely this game wouldn't paint a cartoonish narrative that a few agents could topple a dictator or gang or cycle of corruption/violence and it not have any negative repercussions.

Someone could make an investigative article about how Ubisoft, usually seen as the more culturally progressive types lately, have always had their right-wing fantasy side through the Tom Clancy's label that are all about the goodness of foreign military intervention and operatives working beyond the law. What do the developers think of the narratives they paint with their games? Surely these developers and writers know how their games have come across. With the examination of the right wing idealogy of Ubisoft's The Division by Kill Screen's Gareth Martin, I wouldn't be surprised if more political analysis is made of their games. Hey, I think Splinter Cell and Rainbow Six make for great games, but that doesn't stop me from thinking of the real-world implications.

Contrary to films like the recent Eye In The Sky, there are very few videogames that question foreign military intervention. There's just Spec Ops: The Line (you've ruined Dubai) and some bits of the recent Call Of Duty's are anti-PMCs (the PMCs in Advanced Warfare are the baddies), and that's about it as far as I can remember in all the decades of military videogames, which is frankly shocking. Since videogames have been tackling serious subject matter in recent years, such a massively influential and world-changing subject like military intervention should be examined more critically (not necessarily just plain negative as Eye In The Sky shows it's more complex than "drones are bad mmkay") in this medium.
 

Ran rp

Member
RingWing Bros. & Tom Clancy's Circus

Ringling-Bros.-and-Barnum-Bailey-Circus.jpg


sorry
 
"We are judges deciding who will live and who will die"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmzo4KvRmsM
No different than Splinter Cell's Fifth Freedom or James Bond's license to kill.

I'm not at all against the discussion but I'm wondering where the inflection point lies. Does it just come across as more crass when its modern bearded special forces dudes? Is it a substance issue or a style one?

The Division gets heat, and rightfully so, because it involves gunning down your own citizens, including looters, and then looting those things yourself. That rah-rah jingoism on a terrifying level. But I don't see the same tenor here - where you're put in country to take out the cartels, not subjugate the entire place or police the citizenry.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
I don't know about right wing propaganda in that I wouldn't impute motive to the developers, but I do think like a lot of shooter ads it's trashy war-worship and not really something I enjoy. Ubisoft is especially guilty of it.
 

ReaperXL7

Member
I guess my question would be if you also have a problem with things like James Bond, Borne or other special forces/secret agent fiction. Do you view those things as inherently right wing propaganda as a whole because they are tied to military operations?

The only real difference between something like James Bond (especially the modern incarnation) and this comes down to replacing a Tuxedo with Fatigues, and British secret service with American special forces.
 

Psoelberg

Member
Interesting write up, OP. It's definitely important that we're critical for these kind of products and not just use the old, unreflective argument "it's a Tom Clancy game - forget it". There are some power structures and discourses larger than that. Discussing and analyzing them is important.

I'm about to go to bed, but just leaving a comment so I can return tomorrow.
 

Disxo

Member
I still wonder why is bolivia the place the game is set.

On topic:
Tom clancy games are always like that, it is kind of sad knowing that they can exploit many themes, but just go and do the typical worshipped military stuff
 
I don't know about right wing propaganda in that I wouldn't impute motive to the developers, but I do think like a lot of shooter ads it's trashy war-worship and not really something I enjoy. Ubisoft is especially guilty of it.

Yeah I really, really dislike Ubisoft's marketing department.

They glorify the killing aspect of their games waaaaaaaaay too much.
 
I still wonder why is bolivia the place the game is set.

On topic:
Tom clancy games are always like that, it is kind of sad knowing that they can exploit many themes, but just go and do the typical worshipped military stuff

They probably looked at South America and picked whichever place Ubisoft games sold the least that people might have heard of.
 

dex3108

Member
I still wonder why is bolivia the place the game is set.

On topic:
Tom clancy games are always like that, it is kind of sad knowing that they can exploit many themes, but just go and do the typical worshipped military stuff


Maybe because Bolivia is huge hub for narcotics cartels? Add to that different types of terrain that can help make game varied and there you have your answer.
 
I think calling it "Propaganda" is giving too much credit to how much thought is put into how these games are marketed. They're not trying to push an agenda by saying those things or influence people to think a certain way about actual world issues. They're just trying to advertise and convey the feeling of being an action hero in a war setting.

The issue just boils down to most video game writing being an uncreative generic mess that doesn't go any deeper than "You're a good guy, shoot the bad guy." It's not sinister, it's just low quality.
 
I still wonder why is bolivia the place the game is set.
Likely the best fit in terms of actual drug presence and geographical variety... Chile would work for the latter but not the former. Anything much farther north would lose that variety. Also, it's probably the smallest market they may offend. E.g. It could have been set in Mexico but probably safer in terms of PR to run around going Blackwater in Bolivia than Mexico -- the latter, especially with the States, is a bigger consumer market. Some consumers in the US (or even Mexico) may be turned off by it. Farther south in South America though, that's more safe, and of those Bolivia makes a lot of sense for the first stated reasons.

As for the propaganda... propaganda is about intent. There needs to be an intention to support a perspective. If gamers already think that perspective is cool -- for a game -- it's not really propaganda. It's just 'war is cool.' It may act in the same way as propaganda but unless you can show the purpose of the game is to promote that perspective -- opposed to making a cool gamer, making profit, appealing to what gamers think is cool -- then it's not really propaganda. Maybe coincidentally at best, but consider this: would Ubisoft still develop the game if they knew it wouldn't sell and make profit? If the answer is no, it's probably not propaganda.
 

Disxo

Member
Well, that makes sense.
Maybe will get the game for the location, always been interested in visiting the country.

Hope the game is not offensive to them.
 
Tom Clancy himself was a famous conservative Republican. His books reflected his political viewpoint. At the beginning, the Tom Clancy's video games were based on characters in his books, and are still set in a world which is based off his imagination. So expecting a Tom Clancy's video game to not at least vaguely follow from and reflect his world view is a bit strange?
 

120v

Member
i wish these games were marketed like, say, Battlefield 1, where there's no semper fi pretenses, it's just "yeah you gonna shoot shit" *dubstep bass*

but adverts of this ilk are nowhere near progpaganda... the ad campaigns for man of seel, independence day, ect. thats propaganda
 

Uthred

Member
Yeah I really, really dislike Ubisoft's marketing department.

They glorify the killing aspect of their games waaaaaaaaay too much.

Considering the majority of their games are power fantasies where you play a hyper-competent killer what exactly do you expect them to glorify? Criticism for making the games seems fair enough, but when the marketing department advertises a series called Assassins Creed or Tom Clancy's: The Shootening by focusing on the violence thats them a) doing their job and b) giving an accurate representation of the games content.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
If it were liberal would there be a thread? Everything can have a perspective. A war videogame might side a certain way...

This. If you feel strongly about it don't buy it. Simple as that.

Those damn ring wingers are allowed to make videogames too.
 
Tom Clancy, Call of Duty, Battlefield. All of those games have that 24-style, "We've got to do what needs to be done, rules be damned" feel to them. Very jingoistic.

The line seems to be the setting and subject matter for many. Battlefield: Hardline was a bit too close to home for me, but I'm fine with something like COD: Advanced Warfare or Battlefield 1. Everyone has different tastes.

This. If you feel strongly about it don't buy it. Simple as that.

Those damn ring wingers are allowed to make videogames too.

What is there to argue? So what if it's "right wing propaganda", should it just not exist because OP disagrees with it?

Seeing as these arguments never came into question, perhaps you could engage with the content of the thread instead of the argument you have in your head.

Yeah I really, really dislike Ubisoft's marketing department.

They glorify the killing aspect of their games waaaaaaaaay too much.
It is pretty much what the game is about.
 

Mikǝ

Neo Member
Deciding who will live and who will die is what military combat arms people do every day. In that moment, they have to decide whether to pull the trigger or not. I think that's all the quote meant, maybe you are looking a bit too deeply into it.
 

chugen

Member
remind me of the old "video games will turn your child into a killer"

im sure some people will play a game and then think, hey these guys can do whatever they want, maybe they are right, we should topple more foreign government, yeah i wanna do that to.
 
How exactly do you make an anti-military military shooter though? You can do the Spec Ops thing of having a swerve at the end, but I always felt like that was the developers wanting to have their cake and eat it. Having five hours of visceral, unabashed gunning down of brown people and half an hour of lightly-interactive musings on the horrors of war at the end seems like a bit of a cop out. And in any case, it's not really something you can pull off more than once.
 
Well, it's a shooter. You are the one who judge and shoot people in the face in those, usually.

Of course the whole "judge" thing is silly, the bad guys are bad guys, and will be indicated as such by their weapons on hand, their custom of shooting you on sight, the red icons on top of their head once they are marked...
 
All these posts not taking the OP seriously are very telling at how successful games like these are at desensitizing their players to possible political influence.

A piece of media doesn't have to set out to exemplify an agenda to possibly carry themes and messages that support one. Virtually all AAA war games on the market right now are rah-rah semper fi and glorify war as a hero's game. This is a reasonable enough basis for discussion. OP did a great job with a very thorough post with lots of comparable media, and instead of considering the perspective and contributing to the discussion, you're posting memes and throwing your hands in the air as if there is zero value at taking a closer look at the media you are consuming.

I'm especially upset at the implication that NeoGAF, of all places, is not the right place to have serious discussion about a video game.
 

Skux

Member
These games cost millions to make and have to have mass appeal. Sure you can make a shooter that tells you all about how war is awful, but how many copies would that sell?
 
All these posts not taking the OP seriously are very telling at how successful games like these are at desensitizing their players to possible political influence.

A piece of media doesn't have to set out to exemplify an agenda to possibly carry themes and messages that support one. Virtually all AAA war games on the market right now are rah-rah semper fi and glorify war as a hero's game. This is a reasonable enough basis for discussion. OP did a great job with a very thorough OP with lots of comparable media, and instead of considering the perspective and contributing to the discussion, you're posting memes and throwing your hands in the air as if there is zero value at taking a closer look at the media you are consuming.

I'm just going to speak on my own behalf on this one, but I take whatever game I play with a grain of salt. The number one priority for me when I play a video game is always going to be "I want to be entertained". I hardly doubt that the average gamer plays a video game and thinks about what political ramifications or influences were present in said video game. If I wanted to find that message, I'll watch it in a movie. But in a video game, I just want to be entertained for an hour before I do something else.
 

ironcreed

Banned
I try not to read too much into it. It's a video game with what looks to be military contractors or mercenaries that are trying to take out a drug cartel in gorgeous open world Bolivia with fun things to do. Neato, can't wait to play it.
 

Zolo

Member
........... >.< Took me way too long to notice the mispelling in the title.

And yeah. I guess an interview with the developers would be good. I'd expect an answer similar to the Nathan Drake being a mass murderer though from Naughty Dog.
 

mclem

Member
I don't know about right wing propaganda in that I wouldn't impute motive to the developers, but I do think like a lot of shooter ads it's trashy war-worship and not really something I enjoy. Ubisoft is especially guilty of it.

I'm playing Just Cause 2 at the moment, and I'm feeling similarly about that; if you take what it represents seriously then I find it a bit uncomfortable (jingoistic regime change with various wacky foreigner villains). I suspect it's not meant to be taken particularly seriously, but it's not really silly enough to quite manage that in the way that, say, Saints Row manages.

Getting back to Wildlands, taking that quote in the OP directly:

"We are judges deciding who will live and who will die"

...is pretty much directly the ethos of the universe of Judge Dredd. And that's satire. Is Wildlands? We'll have to see.
 
All these posts not taking the OP seriously are very telling at how successful games like these are at desensitizing their players to possible political influence.

A piece of media doesn't have to set out to exemplify an agenda to possibly carry themes and messages that support one. Virtually all AAA war games on the market right now are rah-rah semper fi and glorify war as a hero's game. This is a reasonable enough basis for discussion. OP did a great job with a very thorough post with lots of comparable media, and instead of considering the perspective and contributing to the discussion, you're posting memes and throwing your hands in the air as if there is zero value at taking a closer look at the media you are consuming.

I'm especially upset at the implication that NeoGAF, of all places, is not the right place to have serious discussion about a video game.

This.

I'm just going to speak on my own behalf on this one, but I take whatever game I play with a grain of salt. The number one priority for me when I play a video game is always going to be "I want to be entertained". I hardly doubt that the average gamer plays a video game and thinks about what political ramifications or influences were present in said video game. If I wanted to find that message, I'll watch it in a movie. But in a video game, I just want to be entertained for an hour before I do something else.

Says a lot about where games are culturally.
 
I'm just going to speak on my own behalf on this one, but I take whatever game I play with a grain of salt. The number one priority for me when I play a video game is always going to be "I want to be entertained". I hardly doubt that the average gamer plays a video game and thinks about what political ramifications or influences were present in said video game. If I wanted to find that message, I'll watch it in a movie. But in a video game, I just want to be entertained for an hour before I do something else.

But this is all the more reason to actually take a look at the games you are playing, and that the average person is playing. Because media has an affect on you. All media, whether you're there for a story or messages or not, has an affect on you. This is literally the entire basis for all of advertising and, yes, propaganda. Something as simple as a poster or a slogan becomes a reference point for which you both consciously and subconsciously interpret your life.

Actual gangsters started dressing in suits and enforcing honor codes after the success of The Godfather. The entire cultural concept of a designated driver was established via a cooperation between Harvard and Hollywood to begin representing it in media. You can either let things affect you and influence you without ever thinking about it, for better and for worse, or you can take a closer look at the constant conditions that contextualize your life. This includes everything you qualify as "entertainment."

If you ignore a piece of media's potential influence and shut your brain off, it is all the more likely you will not be aware of the kind of affects it is having on you.
 

Honey Bunny

Member
This.



Says a lot about where games are culturally.

Culturally? Give me a break. Says a lot about the poster. The legion of comic movie fans that only demand bigger CG fight scenes and a bigger number after the title don't reflect where movies are either.

As for the OP, propaganda is a ridiculous word for this. There's no conspiracy, it's just another military power fantasy game because that's what appeals to young males.
 

galdevo

Member
Maybe there could be a 20 minutes QTE scene where you debate and push through a foreign aid bill or some form of soft-power diplomatic outreach. Or when you first start playing they could have an option where congress chooses to to not fund your military actions and then you win.
 
Maybe there could be a 20 minutes QTE scene where you debate and push through a foreign aid bill or some form of soft-power diplomatic outreach. Or when you first start playing they could have an option where congress chooses to to not fund your military actions and then you win.

Hahahaha ^^^^^^
 
Maybe there could be a 20 minutes QTE scene where you debate and push through a foreign aid bill or some form of soft-power diplomatic outreach. Or when you first start playing they could have an option where congress chooses to to not fund your military actions and then you win.

This is like how you can just stand there at the start of Far Cry 4 to win the game and get the secret ending
 

BedBison

Neo Member
Seeing as these arguments never came into question, perhaps you could engage with the content of the thread instead of the argument you have in your head.

OP calling it "propaganda" is just ridiculous. It implies that Ubisoft is trying to influence the minds of people to for some agenda, when it's just a video game that's not suposed to be taken seriously story-wise, the same way Transformers and Paul Blart: Mall Cop isn't supposed to be taken seriously. But again, even if the story was supposed to be taken seriously, why should what the message is matter?

All these posts not taking the OP seriously are very telling at how successful games like these are at desensitizing their players to possible political influence.

So if I don't take everything super seriously all the time it'll brainwash me into believing something?
 
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