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[Lord Error]

i dont know a single person that uses headphones.

Well, now you know one Whenever I'm playing any, say, Lucasarts adventure game on my pocket PC, I use the headphones so that I can hear music and voices. I'm not going to annoy the people around me, or listen to the vastly inferor sound quality that gets out of that tiny speaker, or miss the spoken line as the sound gets drowned in the surrounding noise.

 

[Go Go Ackman!]

i dont know a single person that uses headphones.

Gee, are they GBA SP owners?

Anyways, has DS power consumption been addressed? Two screens, stronger processor...

 

[sprsk]

Gee, are they GBA SP owners?

Anyways, has DS power consumption been addressed? Two screens, stronger processor...

Yes, and previously as non sp owners they never wore headphones either.

And yeah they say 10 hours with the ds.

 

[The Faceless Master]

the damage control is strong in this thread...

it's funny that people are saying sony is looking out for us!

escpecially when for months now, they were all saying how the battery doesn't need to last more than 2 hours anyway since you would either be at work or at home by then with an outlet somewhere ready to recharge...

whatever happened to that explanation?

 

[Go Go Ackman!]

Well I'm glad your circle of friends accurately represents the entire population of handheld users. Maybe they'd use them more often if CD quality soundtracks were available on GBA... why the fuck am I even draggin on this argument?

 

[sprsk]

Well I'm glad your circle of friends accurately represents the entire population of handheld users. Maybe they'd use them more often if CD quality soundtracks were available on GBA... why the fuck am I even draggin on this argument?

Well its not only my friends. I've worked in the mall for like 3-4 years and ive always seen kids with gbas gbs gbasps and so on, never with headphones.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

I would use headphones, but I don't.

For the most part, the music/sound quality of GBA games is pretty low, so I don't feel like I'm missing much just using the little built-in speaker.

 

[p_xavier]

Yes, and previously as non sp owners they never wore headphones either.

And yeah they say 10 hours with the ds.

They say 6-10 hours with the DS... So power consumption for each game is a challenge, more like the PSP.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yes, and previously as non sp owners they never wore headphones either.

And yeah they say 10 hours with the ds.

Again, that is peak... add in WiFi, microphone, touch-screen (we have two "back-lit" screens), high-quality music playing (stressing the double clocked [33 MHz] ARM7 GBA CPU) and high-quality (for NDS standards) 3D graphics stressing the ARM9 CPU and the GPU.

You are not hit as hard as the screens of the NDS will likely be of lower quality compared to the PSP screen and that there is no optical-disc to spin.

 

[Firest0rm]

Again, that is peak... add in WiFi, microphone, touch-screen (we have two "back-lit" screens), high-quality music playing (stressing the double clocked [33 MHz] ARM7 GBA CPU) and high-quality (for NDS standards) 3D graphics stressing the ARM9 CPU and the GPU.

You are not hit as hard as the screens of the NDS will likely be of lower quality compared to the PSP screen and that there is no optical-disc to spin.

Peak? Wtf? I'm sorry are you working on a NDS right now? We were told to expect that length of a game, but we were not told this is the peak. I'm sure GC's 10-15 million polys was peak! This is Nintendo, not your precious Sony were talking about. The most convservative company in this industry, in every term of their operations.

 

[Deg]

Again, that is peak... add in WiFi, microphone, touch-screen (we have two "back-lit" screens), high-quality music playing (stressing the double clocked [33 MHz] ARM7 GBA CPU) and high-quality (for NDS standards) 3D graphics stressing the ARM9 CPU and the GPU.

You are not hit as hard as the screens of the NDS will likely be of lower quality compared to the PSP screen and that there is no optical-disc to spin.

DS is much more complex to 'power'.

 

[P90]

Please name more than battery and price as flaws for PSP? And both of these have not been announced yet, so it'd just be speculative flaws at best.

lol! Like those AREN'T HUGE?!?!?!

Those speculative flaws have been around for quite a while. And Sony will never directly answer them. Where there is smoke there is fire...

C'mon, the PSP screen alone must cost Sony $$$. That thing ain't gonna be at a mass market price. Use your brain. And yes, anything less than 10 hours will make the mass market bitch. So, the PSP becomes niche, at best. A handheld GC, marketsdhare-wise, best case scenario.

 

[Go Go Ackman!]

the damage control is strong in this thread...

it's funny that people are saying sony is looking out for us!

escpecially when for months now, they were all saying how the battery doesn't need to last more than 2 hours anyway since you would either be at work or at home by then with an outlet somewhere ready to recharge...

whatever happened to that explanation?

The irrational distrust of sony is strong in this thread. Oh shit, someone is trying to introduce a high-quality product into market and people expect 100% perfection with it. People cried about PS2's texture quality, xbox's original controller, Gamecube's 3rd party support, GBA's dim screen, GBA's lack of sound hardware, GBA SP not having a headphone port... the list is as endless as kirby's appetite.

All you crybabies make sony out to be some sort of evil dictatorship that takes delight in subjugating our wonderful developers. You're making this news item out to be more than it is, laughing at Sony's ineptitude. It's funny how people on one hand say "pff who wants to watch movies on a handheld" and on the other say "omfg 2 hour battery life when watching movies lolz sony sucks." Sony can't win either way because you have your minds made up already. I, on the other hand, see an honest effort to expand and enrich the handheld market.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

 

[kaching]

And thus, Sony learns why you can't shove this much modern hardware into such a small space without making some sacrifices.

This level of battery performance due to pushing portable tech of the time towards the "cutting edge" is hardly unprecedented or unusual among portable devices. I'm sure Sony's been well aware of the tightrope they walk in this situation since they themselves have done it before with plenty of other portable devices.

If anyone stands to learn anything here, it's the people who behave as if they've never seen or used another portable device besides a Gameboy.

 

[sohka88]

Do you consider PS2 and GBA obselete?

no.

The DS is IMO worthless HW. I am not getting a PSP either, but I would get it before getting yet another underpowered nintendo platform with multiple re-re-re-releases of Old mario games and the likes.

 

[P90]

The irrational distrust of sony is strong in this thread.

There is quite a history of Sony overpromising and underdelivering... Once bitten, twice shy. I don't see that as "irrational".

 

[sprsk]

The irrational distrust of sony is strong in this thread. Oh shit, someone is trying to introduce a high-quality product into market and people expect 100% perfection with it. People cried about PS2's texture quality, xbox's original controller, Gamecube's 3rd party support, GBA's dim screen, GBA's lack of sound hardware, GBA SP not having a headphone port... the list is as endless as kirby's appetite.

All you crybabies make sony out to be some sort of evil dictatorship that takes delight in subjugating our wonderful developers. You're making this news item out to be more than it is, laughing at Sony's ineptitude. It's funny how people on one hand say "pff who wants to watch movies on a handheld" and on the other say "omfg 2 hour battery life when watching movies lolz sony sucks." Sony can't win either way because you have your minds made up already. I, on the other hand, see an honest effort to expand and enrich the handheld market.

The only way to really expand the handheld market is by making it more practical. Not by making it unpractical.

 

[ravingloon]

This is actually an excellent post.

No it's not. What are the odds Nintendo won't have a new handheld coming out in a couple years? That'll be it's real competetion at that point.

And christ people, if you have a GBA, buy some headphones. Not only will you not annoy the people around you, even simple games like Kuru Kuru sound significantly better through headphones.

 

[Infernodash]

The irrational distrust of sony is strong in this thread. Oh shit, someone is trying to introduce a high-quality product into market and people expect 100% perfection with it. People cried about PS2's texture quality, xbox's original controller, Gamecube's 3rd party support, GBA's dim screen, GBA's lack of sound hardware, GBA SP not having a headphone port... the list is as endless as kirby's appetite.

All you crybabies make sony out to be some sort of evil dictatorship that takes delight in subjugating our wonderful developers. You're making this news item out to be more than it is, laughing at Sony's ineptitude. It's funny how people on one hand say "pff who wants to watch movies on a handheld" and on the other say "omfg 2 hour battery life when watching movies lolz sony sucks." Sony can't win either way because you have your minds made up already. I, on the other hand, see an honest effort to expand and enrich the handheld market.

IAWTP.. I tell you, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. There is no way to please these people.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Peak? Wtf? I'm sorry are you working on a NDS right now? We were told to expect that length of a game, but we were not told this is the peak. I'm sure GC's 10-15 million polys was peak! This is Nintendo, not your precious Sony were talking about. The most convservative company in this industry, in every term of their operations.

Hahhaha....

The peak of Flipper in terms of polygon-count is ~33 MVertices/s, not too far from those promised 15 MVertices (care to list me those GCN gams which push 15 MPolygons/s ?).

Second, even they said about 6-to-10 hours for the DS.

You are trying to make me believe that, since Nintendo is this awesomly conservative company who would chivarly refuse to hype things in even the slightest misleading way, when they say 6-10 hours for the NDS really mean 12-15 hours ?

Sure, but if you let me I'd put this under the category "you do not know, the Dreamcast could have pushed 34 Gazillion polygons per second, SEGA was just WAY too conservative".

I still remember the time in which SEGA and Nintendo fought each other with a bunch of bullet-point crap under the name of "exclusive features" and people seems to have forgotten those times and heralded SEGA and Nintendo as champions of conservativism.

 

[ravingloon]

no.

The DS is IMO worthless HW. I am not getting a PSP either, but I would get it before getting yet another underpowered nintendo platform with multiple re-re-re-releases of Old mario games and the likes.

And I think you're bitching about the wrong platform. The idiotic Mario 4*4 aside, this is the only thing the DS has going for it. It requires originality, something the handheld market requires... cause what's the point otherwise?

 

[Infernodash]

The only way to really expand the handheld market is by making it more practical. Not by making it unpractical.

Technology is ever changing, what is unpractical today, is practical tomorrow. Who would of thunk there would be portable dvd players?

 

[Lord Error]

And yes, anything less than 10 hours will make the mass market bitch.

That's very misleading thinking, IMO. Many very mass market devices, like cellphones or photo cameras, or music players, can't achieve ten hours of active use.

 

[Panajev2001a]

There is quite a history of Sony overpromising and underdelivering... Once bitten, twice shy. I don't see that as "irrational".

I am here for the history lesson, prof.

Enlighten me .

P.S.: we are talking about Sony Computer Entertainment.

 

[CrisKre]

Panajev, that's exactly how nintendo operates. One example, look at the wavebird: it actaully works from a MUCH larger distance than what was stated. SP's battery, for reference, works longer in most cases than what its said to be. And I know, I work for Nintendo distributers and we test this products.

 

[Deg]

That's very misleading thinking, IMO. Many very mass market devices, like cellphones or photo cameras, or music players, can't achieve ten hours of active use.

This is a gaming machine we are talking about. Not a handheld toaster.

no.

The DS is IMO worthless HW.

Well of course

 

[Go Go Ackman!]

The only way to really expand the handheld market is by making it more practical. Not by making it unpractical.

Right, so release a slightly-more-powerful-than-gba into the market, that'll sell millions...

There is quite a history of Sony overpromising and underdelivering... Once bitten, twice shy.

Yeah, something only sony is guilty of...

 

[Kiriku]

Well its not only my friends. I've worked in the mall for like 3-4 years and ive always seen kids with gbas gbs gbasps and so on, never with headphones.

To be fair, using headphones in a mall doesn't sound like a great idea to me so I can understand them.
I often used headphones when playing handhelds, so did my friends. But I think headphones are more often used when you're travelling, longer distances. I really enjoyed playing GBA with headphones when going by train for a few hours. It doesn't disturb nearby passengers, and it makes you more involved and focused on the game.

 

[kaching]

There is quite a history of Sony overpromising and underdelivering... Once bitten, twice shy.

There's actually much more history around people misunderstanding what Sony is promising and then jumping to conclusions, establishing expectations out of synch with what they have offered. Not unlike what we're seeing occur throughout this thread. Look as too many people rush to fill in the blanks based on personal bias rather than objective observation.

 

[Shogmaster]

I personally would be quite happy if a modern 3D handheld gave me a minumum of 4 hours per charge of gaming time. That'd be plenty for me, since I can't foresee playing more than that per day (sure, you have your plane/train automobile day long trips, but then you have chance of plugging in a portable charger while playing).

Something tells me though, PSP will be struggling to give me over 2 hours of gameplay, hense this edict from Sony.

 

[Firest0rm]

Hahhaha....

The peak of Flipper in terms of polygon-count is ~33 MVertices/s, not too far from those promised 15 MVertices (care to list me those GCN gams which push 15 MPolygons/s ?).

Second, even they said about 6-to-10 hours for the DS.

You are trying to make me believe that, since Nintendo is this awesomly conservative company who would chivarly refuse to hype things in even the slightest misleading way, when they say 6-10 hours for the NDS really mean 12-15 hours ?

Sure, but if you let me I'd put this under the category "you do not know, the Dreamcast could have pushed 34 Gazillion polygons per second, SEGA was just WAY too conservative".

I still remember the time in which SEGA and Nintendo fought each other with a bunch of bullet-point crap under the name of "exclusive features" and people seems to have forgotten those times and heralded SEGA and Nintendo as champions of conservativism.

Actually let me correct my statment, they said GC could do 6 Million to 12 Million Polygons/second. And we know that number was broken the day that GC came out in NA.

And this has nothing to do with Sega, we're talking about Nintendo. The truth remains that through out this whole generation they're the most conservative company. In terms of what it can do in actual hours, I can't put a figure because I really don't work with one in order to be capable to make such an estimate. But I am willing to be that it won't peak at 10 hours.

 

[Infernodash]

There's actually much more history around people misunderstanding what Sony is promising and then jumping to conclusions, establishing expectations out of synch with what they have offered. Not unlike what we're seeing occur throughout this thread. Look as too many people rush to fill in the blanks based on personal bias rather than objective observation.

preach on my brother

 

[Deg]

There's actually much more history around people misunderstanding what Sony is promising and then jumping to conclusions, establishing expectations out of synch with what they have offered. Not unlike what we're seeing occur throughout this thread. Look as too many people rush to fill in the blanks based on personal bias rather than objective observation.

Yeah true. Sony have been downplaying PSP since day one

Not.

 

[Lord Error]

This is a gaming machine we are talking about. Not a handheld toaster.

According to many people here, an iPod-like device is used "All the time" (thus it's perceived value being greater because of that). Gaming handheld is apparently not used "all the time". However, an iPod itself, a device "used all the time", has a battery life that is less than 10 hours. How many people complain about that again? I know noone who does.

 

[Infernodash]

Ipod's inferior audio capabilities, and lackluster battery life is accepted because of the media/advertisement hype, and because of its "cool" design.

 

[Deg]

According to many people here, an iPod-like device is used "All the time" (thus it's perceived value being greater because of that). Gaming handheld is apparently not used "all the time". However, an iPod itself, a device "used all the time", has a battery life that is less than 10 hours. How many people complain about that again? I know noone who does.

And how many ipod users are there in total compared to GBA owners? Ipod is no mobile phone or GB. If PSP sells what Ipod does it will be regarded as a failiure. There are more Dc's around than ipods.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Technology is ever changing, what is unpractical today, is practical tomorrow.

Yes... so let's wait until tomorrow.

 

[Go Go Ackman!]

Yes... so let's wait until tomorrow.

Good attitude for a company who makes it's money by creating new technologies.

 

[deadhorse32]

Technology is ever changing, what is unpractical today, is practical tomorrow.

When i buy a $250/300 piece of hardware I expect it to be practical today, not tomorrow

 

[Firest0rm]

When i buy a $250/300 piece of hardware I expect it to be practical today, not tomorrow

Yes, because tomorrow you will want that new impractical product for after tomorrow.

 

[Saint Cornelius]

Ipod's inferior audio capabilities, and lackluster battery life is accepted because of the media/advertisement hype, and because of its "cool" design.

Not to threadjack but it might have something to do with the iPod's ease-of-use, as well?

 

[akascream]

In the end, even with infinite battery life, this platform brings nothing new to the market. It's just another machine we gamers have to shell out for if we wish to play all the games. You take away its portibility with lackluster battery performance and you might as well own a PS2.

 

[Lord Error]

And how many ipod users are there in total compared to GBA owners?

How many cellphone users (again, a device used 'all the time') are there compared to GBA owners, and how many of those cellphones allows for more than ten hours of active use? How many laptos are there, and what battery life do they have?

If it's (evidently) acceptable to have someting used all the time have a rather weak battery life, why should a gaming device, not used all the time, be held to a higher standard than those? Just because there's another gaming device, targeted at a completely different crowd, and with vastly inferior technical specs? (talking about GBA, of course)

If PSP sells what Ipod does it will be regarded as a failiure. There are more Dc's around than ipods.

The only way to tell a console hardware is a failure is if it continuously makes it's manufacture losses, and if it makes no money to it's developers. Will that happen with PSP I don't know.

 

[Infernodash]

When i buy a $250/300 piece of hardware I expect it to be practical today, not tomorrow

If you can afford to buy it, then it should be practical for you. Many of the people that bought the first portable dvd players were paying $999+, which was practical for them, others who could not afford it viewed it as impractical. Now that the technology is cheaper, it is even more widely practical. Impractical today, practical tomorrow.

 

[kaching]

Yeah true. Sony have been downplaying PSP since day one

Not.

Where did I say anything about them downplaying, Deg?

Another problem you guys struggle with daily - everything's always one extreme or another, no inbetween. If I said that Sony doesn't overpromise, I must have meant they downplay. Couldn't possibly mean anything else... *rolleyes*

 

[Firest0rm]

If you can afford to buy it, then it should be practical for you. Many of the people that bought the first portable dvd players were paying $999+, which was practical for them, others who could not afford it viewed it as impractical. Now that the technology is cheaper, it is even more widely practical. Impractical today, practical tomorrow.

How the hell is it practical? Being able to afford something does not mean its practical. Its called throwing away money.

 

[drohne]

i don't really understand the hysteria over the psp's battery life. in what context would you play your gameboy for hours at a time, away from a power outlet? perhaps long-haul flights, or long car trips as a passenger? i don't think i've ever done so, and i travel a fair bit.

i can see how short battery life would introduce some hassles -- recharging every couple days rather than once a week, plugging in when an outlet is available -- but i don't see how it's a crippling defecit. seems like a fair trade-off for the first decent piece of portable gaming hardware since the lynx. and unlike the lynx or nomad or turbo express, the psp isn't at all bulky.

so is the fixation on battery life just nintendo advocates going after a perceived weakness? or would it meaningfully interfere with the way you play portable games?

 

[deadhorse32]

Infernodash
Through the miracle of the Internet, I can make ludicrous claims and be unable to prove anything!

nice tag

 

[Deg]

If you can afford to buy it, then it should be practical for you. Many of the people that bought the first portable dvd players were paying $999+, which was practical for them, others who could not afford it viewed it as impractical. Now that the technology is cheaper, it is even more widely practical. Impractical today, practical tomorrow.

you dont see those old dvd players on sale anymore. New models dominate the market. Better quality and design for the price as well.

How many cellphone users (again, a device used 'all the time') are there compared to GBA owners, and how many of those cellphones allows for more than ten hours of active use? How many laptos are there, and what battery life do they have?

If it's (evidently) acceptable to have someting used all the time have a rather weak battery life, why should a gaming device, not used all the time, be held to a higher standard than those? Just because there's another gaming device, targeted at a completely different crowd, and with vastly inferior technical specs? (talking about GBA, of course)

Would you really class a cell phone or a laptop as dedicated handheld/portable entertainment devices?

The only way to tell a console hardware is a failure is if it continuously makes it's manufacture losses, and if it makes no money to it's developers. Will that happen with PSP I don't know.

Yes of course there's no such thing as failiure. Either way there have been many things pointed out about PSP that will prevent from being the next GBA. If PSP fails to catch up to GBA what do you think people will say? PSP was perfect and Sony did no wrong?

Where did I say anything about them downplaying, Deg?

Another problem you guys struggle with daily - everything's always one extreme or another, no inbetween. If I said that Sony doesn't overpromise, I must have meant they downplay. Couldn't possibly mean anything else... *rolleyes*

Yeah its true it was the press who made up the 21st century walkman comment.