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[DCharlie]

"I guess my point is why this hate for Sony about things that we have no *facts* about? If it was 2 hours and $400, bitch away"

while the bitching is ridiculous, so is the fact that we are 2-3 months from launch and they are still dodging the questions in regard to price and battery.

If sony truly understood what they were doing, then the battery life and price would be easy to explain to customers , surely?

So... why the delay?

I'm excited for the PSP, after TGS it was by far the highlight, but these last two questions remaining unresolved is getting stupid.

 

[P90]

Actually, a 6 megapixel camera has better image quality than a 35mm camera.

No way. I have both and shoot as a part time pro. Digital has a nice smooth contrast, but ISO 100 or slower film at 35 mm kicks digital's @ss for sharpness, rendering of water, and highly reflective surfaces.

 

[TTP]

Why are you all, and expecially DCharlie, assuming this restriction is related to the whole system performance rather than to just the optical drive usage? To me, it seems logical for Sony and useful for developers to have that "battery consumption emulator" since this is the first handheld with an optical drive, and this rises some issues. You may want to stream data from the UMD, but you need to know how to do that without draining too much energy from batteries. You need to "calibrate" the thing, so you need that emulator. I dont understand where all this hating comes from.

 

[P90]

I am here for the history lesson, prof.

Enlighten me .

P.S.: we are talking about Sony Computer Entertainment.

Here is one: Capcom prez or VP exploding at Kaz at an expo a few years back about how Sony promised him "cinema quality graphics" with the PS2. Toy Story Graphics. PS2 DVD player pooping out in unit after unit. Happened to you. Mikami had the same thing happen to him. Bad reliability is over promising and under delivering.

 

[DCharlie]

"Why are you all, and expecially DCharlie, assuming this restriction is related to the whole system performance rather than to just the optical drive usage? To me, it seems logical for Sony and useful for developers to have that "battery consumption emulator" since this is the first handheld with an optical drive, and this rises some issues. You may want to stream data from the UMD, but you need to know how to do that without draining too much energy from batteries. You need to "calibrate" the thing, so you need that emulator. I dont understand where all this hating comes from."

Well, not that i don't agree with your observation, but my sony MD player can (i should say "could", it died in a bag full of beer a year or two ago) lasts for hours and hours and hours. Whilst not an indication of how the PSP will work in that regard, i don't think it's just the drive that is going to be zapping the energy... the screen is big and fantastic, and that's definitely going to draw a fair, if not the vast bulk, of power. Obviously streaming things from the disk is going to hammer all the systems resources and reduce the game. Ontop of this is the scalable CPU. I assume it's scalable for a reason (power conservation depending on which mode it's running) and i assume that running at a full 333 hammers the power even still. So i guess the flipside arguement is : why assume that it's just the optical drive that needs all the power? There are other factors that are going to have a bearing.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wait, so... Sony's providing this powerful hardware, but because they could not provide ample battery life, they are placing limits on how much of the PSP hardware is utilized?

If they are prohibited from using, say, more than 70% of the PSP's potential, then what the hell is the point of including that extra 30% in the PSP hardware? Why not downgrade the hardware to account for that limit?

The Hardware is not the limit (as in CPU and GPU), it is the UMD's drive.

With batteries (the current one would be replaceable) that grow in capacity, Sony could relax rules even further.

If someone was kicking you in the ass and you fall on a soft mat... will you ask a softer mat or that this person stops kicking you in the ass ?

 

[P90]

If they are going to limit what you can and can't do, why make the machine that powerful in the first place? Why not get a good balance of power/battery life in the first place instead of this "its not our problem,developers can deal with it" attitude ?

If the problem is UMD, and given the rumour (i know, i know...) movies run the machine dry in 2 hours, then why bother with it in the first place? Just stick everything on memory stick (like the demo units that weren't attached to the walls at TGS...)

it's sounding more like Kutaragi designed some monster machine, was pleased with it, but somehow totally forgot that they have to power the friggin thing...

OR

they are going to plan a PSP SP which has the battery life to support the machine a year or so down the line, meaning all the early adoptors get burninated.

IAWTP

It isn't "hate", it is an objective assessment.

I think the PSP is your scenario #1.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Here is one: Capcom prez or VP exploding at Kaz at an expo a few years back about how Sony promised him "cinema quality graphics" with the PS2. Toy Story Graphics. PS2 DVD player pooping out in unit after unit. Happened to you. Mikami had the same thing happen to him. Bad reliability is over promising and under delivering.

Hahaha... Mikami...

Well, I saw Silent Hill 3, Z.O.E. 2, MGS 2 and I am seeing MGS 3, GT4, etc... maybe someone is just not as good as others in regards to PlayStation2 programming .

Are we back in 2000-2001 with the Toy Story thing ? LOL... that is kicking a dead argument over and over... SCE did not make that statement.

Also, I am sure no one complains about DREs on Xbox... ohhhh nooooo .

 

[Raven.]

The issue here is that Sony is pushing too far too early. Yes, it's great that PS2 graphics are achievable portably, but there's a trade off. In order to do so, you need a large storage medium and a powerful gfx chipset. Both of these take power.

Do I think a handheld system with PS2 graphics would be cool? Yes.
Do I think NOW is the time to release such a thing? No..

Battery tech doesn't seem to be progressing at any significant rate, even waiting for a mature 65nm or 45nm process whicht'd be at the very least 2yrs away would not solve the optical drive problem, which is necessary.

.1. Wait for more efficient batteries.
2. Wait for more efficient ROM storage.
3. Back down the PSP specs.
.

Roms won't likely be as cheap, large or safe, going with a rom based weaker solution will lead quick emulation on other portable hardware.

all things considered, better designed for 3D handheld gaming for the masses than the PSP. .

Yeah RIGHT!!!! The thing looks like a deformed pda from hell, the N-gage2 or something, and for christ's sake it just has a D-PAD. A D-PAD for 3D gaming!!! My God. Nintendo doesn't learn, they lost the console wars due to the ABOMINABLE H/W design(purple cube with a handle, who TF thought of that), and they're doing a redux on the portable market....

As for battery problems.
The problem will probably be solved with battery pack (and large memory sticks later on if the psp can really play of these, the game could just copy huge chunks there and use it temporarily, hopefully)bundles. Also they should include car power adapter, and allow it to recharge while playing.

Thing is as I've said battery tech is not going anywhere fast, and rom tech will most likely not be getting cheap mass storage any time soon. This was the only choice.

 

[TTP]

Well, not that i don't agree with your observation, but my sony MD player can (i should say "could", it died in a bag full of beer a year or two ago) lasts for hours and hours and hours. Whilst not an indication of how the PSP will work in that regard, i don't think it's just the drive that is going to be zapping the energy... the screen is big and fantastic, and that's definitely going to draw a fair, if not the vast bulk, of power. Obviously streaming things from the disk is going to hammer all the systems resources and reduce the game. Ontop of this is the scalable CPU. I assume it's scalable for a reason (power conservation depending on which mode it's running) and i assume that running at a full 333 hammers the power even still. So i guess the flipside arguement is : why assume that it's just the optical drive that needs all the power? There are other factors that are going to have a bearing.

But I think those factors are so minimal Sony doesn't even care. I'm not a techie but I don't think a dozen Mhz more or less have that big of an impact on power consumption in a 10 hours time. As for the scalability, I think that's just for the different PSP functionality (movie, audio, games) not for the games pre se. But we are just speculating.

 

[Panajev2001a]

"Why are you all, and expecially DCharlie, assuming this restriction is related to the whole system performance rather than to just the optical drive usage? To me, it seems logical for Sony and useful for developers to have that "battery consumption emulator" since this is the first handheld with an optical drive, and this rises some issues. You may want to stream data from the UMD, but you need to know how to do that without draining too much energy from batteries. You need to "calibrate" the thing, so you need that emulator. I dont understand where all this hating comes from."

Well, not that i don't agree with your observation, but my sony MD player can (i should say "could", it died in a bag full of beer a year or two ago) lasts for hours and hours and hours. Whilst not an indication of how the PSP will work in that regard, i don't think it's just the drive that is going to be zapping the energy... the screen is big and fantastic, and that's definitely going to draw a fair, if not the vast bulk, of power. Obviously streaming things from the disk is going to hammer all the systems resources and reduce the game. Ontop of this is the scalable CPU. I assume it's scalable for a reason (power conservation depending on which mode it's running) and i assume that running at a full 333 hammers the power even still. So i guess the flipside arguement is : why assume that it's just the optical drive that needs all the power? There are other factors that are going to have a bearing.

Screen + UMD = battery drainers.

Let's think about this scene for a second: crime scene...

At the local pub all the beer is gone in a very quickly amount of time: four people were seen walking in the area...

1 Irish guy, 1 Italian guy and two 12 year olds.

I'd blame the lack of beer... not on the two 12 year olds (I know the comparison is not fitting too much, but it gives the idea).

 

[TTP]

I dont get you Pana

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Yeah RIGHT!!!! The thing looks a deformed pda from hell, the N-gage2 or something, and for christ's sake it just has a D-PAD. A D-PAD for 3D gaming!!! My God. Nintendo doesn't learn, they lost the console wars due to the ABOMINABLE H/W design(purple cube with a handle, who TF thought of that), and they're doing a redux on the portable market....

As for battery problems.
The problem will probably be solved with battery pack (and large memory sticks later on if the psp can really play of these, the game could just copy huge chunks there and use it temporarily, hopefully)bundles. Also they should include car power adapter, and allow it to recharge while playing.

Thing is as I've said battery tech is not going anywhere fast, and rom tech will most likely not be getting cheap mass storage any time soon. This was the only choice.

go find that thread when the redesign surfaced. YOU are in the minority here with your view on the DS.

the solution you pitched is not workable. A mem stick can't be accessed with the speed / rapidity of a HD. If it was all portable pcs would be speedier/more power conservative if you stuck a huge cart in. That does NOT work.

I was going to comment on the dev's not being happy at SONY. Wasn't there that story THIS month about the PSP dev conference getting heated about the issue of battery life - this isn't just something for gamers to contend with.

 

[Panajev2001a]

it's sounding more like Kutaragi designed some monster machine, was pleased with it, but somehow totally forgot that they have to power the friggin thing...

Do you have the Deadmeat (tm) syndrom that says that Ken Kutaragi personally designed every chip that comes out for Sony products and he is responsible for all their flaws personally ?

 

[sonycowboy]

"I guess my point is why this hate for Sony about things that we have no *facts* about? If it was 2 hours and $400, bitch away"

while the bitching is ridiculous, so is the fact that we are 2-3 months from launch and they are still dodging the questions in regard to price and battery.

If sony truly understood what they were doing, then the battery life and price would be easy to explain to customers , surely?

So... why the delay?

I'm excited for the PSP, after TGS it was by far the highlight, but these last two questions remaining unresolved is getting stupid.

Sony's given the word about battery life. At least as much as Nintendo has. Of course, Nintendo's exempt from the conversation. And, it strikes me that Nintendo just announced the price a week ago and their US & Japan launch is just as close. So why not the hate for Nintendo to take as long as they did for the price?

I think the fact that Sony is holding off the announcement of the price is better for gamers. They're obviously trying to determine the highest price is that will allow for a great launch. To me, the longer they wait, the lower the price drops. In other words, I don't think in meetings, they come in the very next day and say, let's charge another $50.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I dont get you Pana

Well, if we take out beer and we put Barbera or for quality some nice Barbaresco by Gaia, then the example fits even better .

 

[sonycowboy]

go find that thread when the redesign surfaced. YOU are in the minority here with your view on the DS.

OK. Most previews I see regarding the DS are not real high on the design of the sucker. They might be excited at the possibilites regarding innovative uses of the Dual Screen or the the stylus, but none of them are saying those screens are gorgeous or the controls look spot on, or even it feels great in our hands.

All those things ARE said about the PSP.

You might be confusing the fact that the first demo of the DS was completely railed for it's bland and uninspired design with people's happiness to get a moderate redesign. But I don't hear alot of people hailing it as being anything great.

> Bad <> GREAT

 

[P90]

Hahaha... Mikami...

Well, I saw Silent Hill 3, Z.O.E. 2, MGS 2 and I am seeing MGS 3, GT4, etc... maybe someone is just not as good as others in regards to PlayStation2 programming .

Are we back in 2000-2001 with the Toy Story thing ? LOL... that is kicking a dead argument over and over... SCE did not make that statement.

Also, I am sure no one complains about DREs on Xbox... ohhhh nooooo .

Pana. Pana. Pana. Your fanboyism is a sight. But heck, you are the best, most readable fanboy. Keep it up. Seriously. You are an asset to the boards.

I saw REMake, RE0, FF:CC, Star Fox Adventures, RS III. I am seeing RE4 and a new Zelda. So your point is?

Toy Story quality graphics was never formally denied by SCE either. They lapped up that hype and loved it. They made their own bed with that one.

And don't get me started on Thompson Xbox's! What rubbish.

 

[Spike]

Sony's given the word about battery life. At least as much as Nintendo has. Of course, Nintendo's exempt from the conversation. And, it strikes me that Nintendo just announced the price a week ago and their US & Japan launch is just as close. So why not the hate for Nintendo to take as long as they did for the price?.

Actually, Nintendo did announce that the battery should last 6-10 hours when they announced the price/launch date.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Sony doesn't understand balance. The PS2 is weaker than the sum of its parts because they didn't balance certain aspects of the design.

Something tells me that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[DCharlie]

"Sony's given the word about battery life. At least as much as Nintendo has. Of course, Nintendo's exempt from the conversation. And, it strikes me that Nintendo just announced the price a week ago and their US & Japan launch is just as close. So why not the hate for Nintendo to take as long as they did for the price?"

We are talking about the PSP here, if it was about the DS, i'd be bitching just as much.

And as you point out, they announced the price and batter a week ago and will launch around the same time time as Sony, so... can we have a sony announcement please?
that's all i ask. I don't even care if they come out and say "Games = 2 hours" i just want to know, and for pricing , that will help me make sure i have the cash for it's launch. It's just nice knowing!

 

[Panajev2001a]

Pana. Pana. Pana. Your fanboyism is a sight. But heck, you are the best, most readable fanboy. Keep it up. Seriously. You are an asset to the boards.

I saw REMake, RE0, FF:CC, Star Fox Adventures, RS III. I am seeing RE4 and a new Zelda. So your point is?

You have seen them on a machine which is ~1.5 years younger (which is about 1-1.5 technological cycles... which I assure you does mean a lot fo things )...

I'll conceed Resident Evil 4 even though it is coming out quite a long time after MGS 2, Z.O.E. 2 and Silent Hill 3 came out.

Still Resident Evil 4 does not manage to trash any of those mentioned games.

It is simple for Mikami: if he can back it up, then he should do so.

So far he has not been able to trash talk PlayStation 2 with facts (even though it is a 1.5 years older architecture).

Toy Story quality graphics was never formally denied by SCE either. They lapped up that hype and loved it. They made their own bed with that one.

Ok, I get it... since they did not spend money on making sure that free pubblicity they did not start would stop making them lose money it is just like they oublically stated that their machine ws capable of toy Story like graphics.

Well, Nintendo could not possibly be worse than that... I mean, those Robotech tech demo and other material Nintendo passed us as done in real-time by the Nintendo 64 was how actually games ended up looking on Nintendo 64, right ?

I do not get it... I do not bash competition, I try to talk about technical data and suddenly I am Sony fanboys's king... lol.

And don't get me started on Thompson Xbox's! What rubbish.

You are the one that brought in PlayStation 2 problems.

Just as an aside: considering the HUGE amount of PlayStation 2 units Sony/SCE produces and ships compared to the considerably lower amount of Xbox consoles Microsoft manages to ship, isn't it natural that there are going to be more less longeve PlayStation 2 consoles than Xbox consoles on the market ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

"Sony's given the word about battery life. At least as much as Nintendo has. Of course, Nintendo's exempt from the conversation. And, it strikes me that Nintendo just announced the price a week ago and their US & Japan launch is just as close. So why not the hate for Nintendo to take as long as they did for the price?"

We are talking about the PSP here, if it was about the DS, i'd be bitching just as much.

Somehow, I doubt that as PSP is pretty much the only thing made by Sony that you like nowadays .

 

[TheGreenGiant]

OK. Most previews I see regarding the DS are not real high on the design of the sucker. They might be excited at the possibilites regarding innovative uses of the Dual Screen or the the stylus, but none of them are saying those screens are gorgeous or the controls look spot on, or even it feels great in our hands.

so previews > consumer reaction? And also; since there hasn't been any DS shows - where can these preview/reports get a handson with the new REVISED machine and games that aren't TECH DEMOS. All previews to date have been on the UGLY E3 model (Hell, even that got a huge cheer at E3 when reggie took it out) I say wait til the DS touch event before raining on the DS parade.

Because we already get info on the PSP; we can piss all over it. If the DS touch event is bollocks; I will say its bollocks.

 

[DCharlie]

"Somehow, I doubt that as PSP is pretty much the only thing made by Sony that you like nowadays ."

Damned right, it's sexy as fook!

I'm just impatient and want it STAT.

Thing is, if i'm gonna get burnt by battery life, price, or a delay - then i want to know sooner or later as i could be using the cash on something else unnecessary that i don't actually need....

 

[God's Hand]

I love reading Pana defending Sony. It's priceless material.

 

[Raven.]

he solution you pitched is not workable. A mem stick can't be accessed with the speed / rapidity of a HD. If it was all portable pcs would be speedier/more power conservative if you stuck a huge cart in. That does NOT work.

Well, at least the ability to recharge while playing (along with cables, and a car power adapter being included directly in the box free of charge), would solve most any problem IMHO.

 

[Bluemercury]

What does one's avatar (or tag for that matter) have to do with anything?

Well he as Nintendo Character in his avatar but i havent seen him saying anything nice regarding Nintendo products, quite the contrary. I was trolling him

 

[Go Go Ackman!]

Pana. Pana. Pana. Your fanboyism is a sight. But heck, you are the best, most readable fanboy. Keep it up. Seriously. You are an asset to the boards.

I saw REMake, RE0, FF:CC, Star Fox Adventures, RS III. I am seeing RE4 and a new Zelda. So your point is?

You're one to talk about fanboyism, chappy.

 

[kaching]

If they are going to limit what you can and can't do, why make the machine that powerful in the first place? Why not get a good balance of power/battery life in the first place instead of this "its not our problem,developers can deal with it" attitude ?

...

well, not really - the difference now is that they are saying you cannot go above a certain power consumption for games. So, although the machine is capable of pulling off so much more, the battery life constraint is going to act as a block on that. So, if they had this in mind from the off, then surely it would have made more sense to make a slightly less powerful machine with better battery life all round and, hell, get the suggested price down from whatever it is (250? 300? 350?), allowing them to compete better with Nintendo , but still have the tech edge.

In practical terms, no one maxes out the potential of a new hardware platform in the first generation of games anyway. Regardless of that, you still get games that are able to tap more processing power than any previous generation of hardware offered. So the sum total of the effect that this alleged policy would have on how effectively first generation PSP games utilize PSP hardware is probably negligible.

In addition, the benefit of dictating such a limitation through policy/procedure as opposed to actually limiting the hardware is that you can much more easily rescind a policy-based limitation than you can a hardware-based limitation later on. They give themselves the benefit of competing more evenly on the issue of battery life during the launch period and still have the option to let devs go full throttle to then leverage the full power of the machine later on. If the hardware itself had been throttled back then you'd basically have to launch a new platform to get the level of hardware power you originally intended.

 

[Jonnyram]

OK, aside from the obvious digs, what prompted Sony to do this now? Shouldn't this have been pushed months ago, when development was still in its early days? At least then they could have shown PSPs loading software off UMD at TGS instead of fobbing us off with memory stick versions.

Didn't anyone else find it suspcious how only certain games (like Lumines) were playable on the standalone units, whereas games like Ridge Racer were only playable at the wall-stations.

 

[Spike]

Doesn't anyone else find it funny that Sony intends to include a battery emulator in the PSP toolset? Implying that the toolsets aren't finalized and out in developers hands. Shouldn't this have been out for a while now if they are serious about launching the system in this fiscal year?

 

[kaching]

So you're saying that all other game platforms have always had feature complete SDKs many months before the actual hardware launches and that these SDKs never receive updates thereafter, even if the developers ask for new features?

Get a clue, guys, or stop trying to overexamine this rumor in order to deliberately find fault.

Edit:

instead of fobbing us off with memory stick versions.

Speak for yourself, jonnyram. The possibility of playing games off memstick is one that I hope Sony takes full advantage of.

 

[Lazy8s]

High-tech for the portable space implies a good relative price/performance/power-consumption match. If a handheld's battery life isn't acceptable, it's not high-tech. What would be interesting would be a comparison of the relative physical characteristics of PSP's chips vs. a high-end MBX solution vs. BitBoy's G34 vs. a GoForce solution to see whether design for power consumption, heat, size, and/or performance is the issue here.

 

[Spike]

So you're saying that all other game platforms have always had feature complete SDKs many months before the actual hardware launches and that these SDKs never receive updates thereafter, even if the developers ask for new features?

No, actually I'm not trying to find any fault with them. My concern is genuine because I'm really looking forward to the PSP.

So the question still stands. Is there any hope that the PSP will launch this fiscal year when they are dropping this news now and haven't yet incorporated the batter emulation? More importantaly, how far along are the games and will they have to have stuff taken out in order to accomodate this?

I'm not a programmer, so if anyone can clarify, I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[kaching]

Sorry for the sarcastic response then. You can take from what I said though that SDKs typically aren't frozen in any way and continue to receive updates through course of the lifecycle of the hardware platform it supports. The fact then that they're still adding features to the PSP SDK shouldn't by itself suggest a delay.

You should also note that this is only a rumor and that, even within the context of the rumor, they're suggesting that Sony may be planning to wait to see how flagship titles perform at retail before making a concrete policy decision about how to limit hardware utilization for the sake of battery life. So, no, I don't think this implies a delay.

 

[Lord Error]

Didn't anyone else find it suspcious how only certain games (like Lumines) were playable on the standalone units, whereas games like Ridge Racer were only playable at the wall-stations.

Wasn't MG Acid playable at the standalone units?

What do you think would be the difference between those two units?

So the question still stands. Is there any hope that the PSP will launch this fiscal year when they are dropping this news now and haven't yet incorporated the batter emulation? More importantaly, how far along are the games and will they have to have stuff taken out in order to accomodate this?

Devkits are being updated all the time, that's nothing unusual. PS2, GC, Xbox devkits have went through several revisions as well, and probably still keep changing.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

You know it's funny. Maybe I got a REEL SPESHUL GBA SP, but mine runs a good twelve-fifteen hours with the light on. Shocking. I've had one since the beginning too. Play it constantly. Equally shocking is how the regular GBA managed to last almost thirty hours on two fresh AAs. Not just eighteen-twenty hours that Nintendo put on its official specs. Maybe I'm just that damned lucky. Just maybe.

It's also really funny that the people downplaying this, and mentioning something like a mobile seem to forget: even when a mobile is used "constantly" it isn't actually "in use". You can drain the best mobile in under two hours if you are constantly talking on it. However, since most people talk in fifteen to sixty second bursts, battery life doesn't really become an issue.

So, you fellas gonna be playing your PSP for fifteen to sixty second bursts too?

I also really like how Sony's MD runs like a bajillion hours off of ONE FUCKING AA BATTERY and yet, the music on PSP is merely "ten hours" and you don't even use the damned UMD drive for the music.

That's just plain sad.

Now I'm certainly interested in the PSP, but I'm not going to be picking one up for launch. I'll wait for the kinks to be "worked out" much like all other Sony products that don't come from that miraculous little dev that brings out the Sony MiniDisc.

 

[DCharlie]

"In practical terms, no one maxes out the potential of a new hardware platform in the first generation of games anyway. Regardless of that, you still get games that are able to tap more processing power than any previous generation of hardware offered. So the sum total of the effect that this alleged policy would have on how effectively first generation PSP games utilize PSP hardware is probably negligible."

I agree that they are going to be able to tap more power - in fact, you allude to the point i'm making. The current launch titles are more than a big enough step up and are probably not pushing the PSP to the brink. HOWEVER, if this rumour is true that Sony are capping you based on power consumption then they are also to some extent limiting the peek that the hardware can do by extension. The the question would be : why not make a cheaper until in the first place that doesn't have the full range of power but is capable of knocking the stuffing out of the GBA? I'm pretty sure that the PSP's ability to make a dent in the market will be to do with attracting 3rd party support - support they would have gotten no matter what machine they put out.

You also make a good point about Mem stick games - why bother with a 1gig+ capacity UMD if you are (potentially) then going to stop people accessing it too often? (again based on baseless rumours, but hell... there aren't anyother decent threads and both side of this arguement are pretty intellegent (IMO)). UMD , i guess is for playing movies too ... or should that be Movie? Although it's hard to critize, 2 hours basically equals 1 movie and you've drained the machine (alledged). Perhaps Anime is going to be the way to go.

"In addition, the benefit of dictating such a limitation through policy/procedure as opposed to actually limiting the hardware is that you can much more easily rescind a policy-based limitation than you can a hardware-based limitation later on. They give themselves the benefit of competing more evenly on the issue of battery life during the launch period and still have the option to let devs go full throttle to then leverage the full power of the machine later on. If the hardware itself had been throttled back then you'd basically have to launch a new platform to get the level of hardware power you originally intended."

I agree with you on a policy based limitation, but i don't see how this helps resolve the base issue (if it exists) of battery consumption. If they are doing it just for launch, then i'd consider it slightly fishy if they start claiming "6 hours battery life!*" (* for puzzle bobble) , then when GT4 comes out and spanks the machine in 2 hours (yes, not proven), then is that not an attempt to decieve consumers into the machines capabilites? As you say though, a) no one knows the truth yet (which is annoying) b) it's all about options, and until we know a) we are just waving knobs in the air trying to guess.

Howay sony man, tell us what we need to know!

 

[Lord Error]

It's also really funny that the people downplaying this, and mentioning something like a mobile seem to forget: even when a mobile is used "constantly" it isn't actually "in use". You can drain the best mobile in under two hours if you are constantly talking on it. However, since most people talk in fifteen to sixty second bursts, battery life doesn't really become an issue.

In reality, though, I have to recharge that phone every 2-3 days, so no matter how I use it, I do have to recharge it all the time.

So, you fellas gonna be playing your PSP for fifteen to sixty second bursts too?

Noone is listening to iPod, and other such devices, in short bursts either, but they are considered to have good battery life (even though the most popular models last less than ten hours)

 

[Yusaku]

Wait for PSP SP....stronger battery, better screen.....

I don't think you could make the screen much better if you tried.

I'll wait for PSP DS.

 

[Jonnyram]

Speak for yourself, jonnyram. The possibility of playing games off memstick is one that I hope Sony takes full advantage of.

That's not what I meant. That is a cool idea, but when I went to TGS, I expected to play a finished PSP with the game loading from disc, so I could see how it would play when I actually buy one. I didn't come away with an accurate feel for how it will be. Still noone can say whether there will be much vibration from the disc spinning, or heat generation, or anything like that.

 

[Incognito]

don't fret, guys. just strap on the optional battery pack and you'll be set for another 4 hours of gaming bliss:

:lol

credit to morphix for joke and picture..

 

[Dragona Akehi]

In reality, though, I have to recharge that phone every 2-3 days, so no matter how I use it, I do have to recharge it all the time.

See that's the thing, I don't mind charging often. See below.

Noone is listening to iPod, and other such devices, in short bursts either, but they are considered to have good battery life (even though the most popular models last less than ten hours)

The thing I'm driving at is that, the iPod while having six-eight hours for battery life will play ALL MP3s irregardless of how they're encoded. Not just play [insert your least favourite band] three times longer than your absolute fab faves, of which it will only go for half an hour. If the PSP drains out at two hours after popping GT PSP into the system, that's BAD. That is really really bad.

With a mobile, you don't have to worry about that so much. You aren't going to drain it by talking to people for a few minutes over the course of the day. You can't directly compare such a thing: which is why I made the cute little remark.

If you can play a game full off (like GT PSP) for over four hours, that's reasonable. However, anything else is bullshit. I'm sorry, I have gaming sessions with my SP that have been almost thrice that without an available outlet. Bubble fucking Bobble for six hours is terrible, if that report is true.

Seriously I really want a PSP, but due to being burned on Sony Products especially concerning battery life (other than the awesome little MiniDisc), I'm going to sit back and wait.

 

[kaching]

You know it's funny. Maybe I got a REEL SPESHUL GBA SP, but mine runs a good twelve-fifteen hours with the light on. Shocking. I've had one since the beginning too. Play it constantly. Equally shocking is how the regular GBA managed to last almost thirty hours on two fresh AAs. Not just eighteen-twenty hours that Nintendo put on its official specs. Maybe I'm just that damned lucky. Just maybe.

Your customer testimonial about your GBA battery life is fascinating, but it doesn't change the fact that battery life estimates for BOTH nextgen handhelds are down from what the GBA offered. Even if we accept that Nintendo is oh so conservative, their DS battery life estimate is still less than their GBA/SP battery life estimates. If you're among the crowd who claims that battery life >>>>>>> hardware power for handheld gaming, both PSP and DS should be equally condemned.

It's also really funny that the people downplaying this, and mentioning something like a mobile seem to forget: even when a mobile is used "constantly" it isn't actually "in use". You can drain the best mobile in under two hours if you are constantly talking on it. However, since most people talk in fifteen to sixty second bursts, battery life doesn't really become an issue.

Well, it's not just mentioning "something like a mobile" its mentioning that there's a whole marketplace of portable devices out there BESIDES GBA. Show me that the PSP sports battery life that is abnormally short for that marketplace, and you might be onto something.

I've managed to get significant value out of a variety of portable devices over the years that have sported battery life that is only a mere fraction of the GBA battery life estimates you claimed. It's possible maybe that people you claim are downplaying this just have a different perspective.

HOWEVER, if this rumour is true that Sony are capping you based on power consumption then they are also to some extent limiting the peek that the hardware can do by extension. The the question would be : why not make a cheaper until in the first place that doesn't have the full range of power but is capable of knocking the stuffing out of the GBA?

As I alluded to, one could basically say the same for any game platform...how long have we had to wait into the lifecycle of earlier game platforms to see the hardware truly utilized to its full potential? Years? Why not just slash the hardware capabilities like you say? Of course, then we'd be in position where 1st gen software STILL wouldn't be able to max out the hardware capabilities until devs become fully acquainted with the SDKs and the hardware...so maybe we should keep cutting the hardware? Where does this vicious cycle end?!?!?

I agree with you on a policy based limitation, but i don't see how this helps resolve the base issue (if it exists) of battery consumption.

Some possibilities how it can help: Better software optimization methods could be discovered as devs gain familiarity with the hardware, learn better techniques for maximizing each data access from the UMD, perhaps Sony wants to wait and see how receptive people are to an external battery pack waiting for significant sell through of those before giving the greenlight for devs to push the hardware as hard as they want. Etc.

If they are doing it just for launch, then i'd consider it slightly fishy if they start claiming "6 hours battery life!*" (* for puzzle bobble) , then when GT4 comes out and spanks the machine in 2 hours (yes, not proven), then is that not an attempt to decieve consumers into the machines capabilites?

Since the battery life is greatly dependent on what software you use, what's the non-deceptive thing for Sony to do here? Offer a range from the absolute minimum battery life to the absolute maximum? Hey, guess what? THEY ALREADY DID THAT. And yet, people are still accusing them of witholding info and/or being deceptive.

 

[Fafalada]

I can't really be bothered to read through all this bickering, but I'll mention this.

The rough specs already exist - for performance targets / usage that we can expect from the machine, including what may be dictated by other factors such as battery life.
It's not like anyone is driving blind here, or that TGS demos were designed without any knowledge of what is being targeted.

Would you really class a cell phone or a laptop as dedicated handheld/portable entertainment devices?

Who cares what you classify them as? Most people use cell phones All the time - and yet there's no way most units get more then 3hours of active use on one charge (as in, the time you actualy spent talking), usually it's less then that.
And the high end models that somehow manage to sell great often go for 300$+ and their battery lives are only getting worse with the newer additions like video phoning, 3d gaming etc.

Besides, when the highend PPCs(700$+) can't muster more then 6hours of MP3 playback with screen disabled, it makes me think that PSP battery projections are actually great as a multipurpose device...

The the question would be : why not make a cheaper until in the first place that doesn't have the full range of power but is capable of knocking the stuffing out of the GBA? I'm pretty sure that the PSP's ability to make a dent in the market will be to do with attracting 3rd party support - support they would have gotten no matter what machine they put out.

The handheld market is not just GBA anymore - the onslaught of 3d phones and other devices has only just started - and most of them are likely gonna wipe the floor with stuff like DS in terms of capabilities. They'll likely all have crap battery life too, and obviously nothing is gonna have the 3rd party support of PSP or DS, but the sheer volume of competition is bound to leave a mark.

 

[krypt0nian]

I want to hear not a range of times for gaming but the official battery life for playing a processor/UMD intensive game like GT4 or GTASP.

If the high end of the estimation truly is for puzzle games, then they are handing us crap. Most games would pull more power and make that high end estimation worthless.

Give us the gamer's truth, SONY. We'll buy it anyway. We're that crazy.

 

[BeOnEdge]

 

[DCharlie]

"Your customer testimonial about your GBA battery life is fascinating, but it doesn't change the fact that battery life estimates for BOTH nextgen handhelds are down from what the GBA offered."

Indeed - it'll be hard going from the GBA life to the next one. I also concur that my GBA is averaging around 14 hours off one charge...

"Even if we accept that Nintendo is oh so conservative, their DS battery life estimate is still less than their GBA/SP battery life estimates. If you're among the crowd who claims that battery life >>>>>>> hardware power for handheld gaming, both PSP and DS should be equally condemned."

Well, it depends on what the ranges end up being. There is a world of difference between, say, 6-10 hours and 2-4 hours. However, neither camp have gone on record as saying "this is our absolute range" yet (or did i miss something?)

"Well, it's not just mentioning "something like a mobile" its mentioning that there's a whole marketplace of portable devices out there BESIDES GBA. Show me that the PSP sports battery life that is abnormally short for that marketplace, and you might be onto something."

The most similar device is a PPC i'd say. Large screen, plays movies (albeit from a mem stick), plays *some* games (emu, dedicated stuff), has multifunctions, and plays MP3s. That battery mark is around 4 hours of solid use, more if you dim the back light a bit.

"I've managed to get significant value out of a variety of portable devices over the years that have sported battery life that is only a mere fraction of the GBA battery life estimates you claimed. It's possible maybe that people you claim are downplaying this just have a different perspective. "

Then you have nothing to worry about - different needs for different people. And i'm sure you undestand why for some people a 2 hour to 4 hour battery range would be a let down.

"As I alluded to, one could basically say the same for any game platform...how long have we had to wait into the lifecycle of earlier game platforms to see the hardware truly utilized to its full potential? Years?"

That's a totally different situation! that comes from experience with a machines capabilities NOT from an impossed performance cap.

"Why not just slash the hardware capabilities like you say? Of course, then we'd be in position where 1st gen software STILL wouldn't be able to max out the hardware capabilities until devs become fully acquainted with the SDKs and the hardware...so maybe we should keep cutting the hardware? Where does this vicious cycle end?!?!?"

.... what? 1st gen software can still be good and push a system - look at Tekken Tag for instance. This is a totally different situation, this isn't programmer limitations, this is impossed limitations from the HW makers where the suspicion is that they want games specifically with lower power consumption in order to meet consumer battery life expectations.

To me, IF TRUE it just sounds like a mistake on Sonys part (too ambitious i'd say) and now they are having to reel some developers in from making the game they thought they could. Given that (IF TRUE) the devs are only getting SDKs with battery meters, then this to me says Sony fucked up and simply didn't think about this issue well enough. I'm sure they'll learn from the mistake.


"Some possibilities how it can help: Better software optimization methods could be discovered as devs gain familiarity with the hardware, learn better techniques for maximizing each data access from the UMD, perhaps Sony wants to wait and see how receptive people are to an external battery pack waiting for significant sell through of those before giving the greenlight for devs to push the hardware as hard as they want. Etc."

acceptance of an external battery would certainly help, but it is only likely if that pack is cheap.

"Since the battery life is greatly dependent on what software you use, what's the non-deceptive thing for Sony to do here? Offer a range from the absolute minimum battery life to the absolute maximum? Hey, guess what? THEY ALREADY DID THAT. And yet, people are still accusing them of witholding info and/or being deceptive."

Okay , so what is that range? 2-4 hours? Wasn't this just alluded too? I've yet to see them come out and SPECIFICALLY say "You can play GAMES for (this many hours range)" - of course, i may have missed something.... what doesn't help their case is things like TGS where the units that they are showing still aren't using the UMD. I think we need to see a final unit, running a UMD, out in the open... and with a price tag attached. Then we can all get ready for the launch.

 

[Jonnyram]

Since the battery life is greatly dependent on what software you use, what's the non-deceptive thing for Sony to do here? Offer a range from the absolute minimum battery life to the absolute maximum? Hey, guess what? THEY ALREADY DID THAT. And yet, people are still accusing them of witholding info and/or being deceptive.

But if they'd promote the PSP with games like Lumines, TOE, Puzzle Bobble, etc. noone would give a rat's ass. Instead, it is a handheld revolution because it runs 3D games without blinking. We can now play games like Ridge, GT, (probably GTA too) on the move. So the average battery time should be based on what people believe the PSP is for, rather than what it can achieve at most, with a non-scrolling, non-loading puzzle game.

If they say "Up to 10 hours of gaming", and 3 million people buy GT with only 5,000 people buying Lumines, don't you expect a few raised eyebrows?