Jimmyfenix
Member
dude would be drunk before the ms e3 show starts tho
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Giant Bomb #14 | I'll Never Forget This!
- Thread starter Jimmyfenix
- Start date
- Status
dude would be drunk before the ms e3 show starts tho
You people can bring any topic back to anime, can't you?
GOOD
Twin Tails
Member
Glitchesarecool
Member
So I get to watch these guys do their commentary live, and then the SBF commentary a few days later. Oh man, so much E3.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Austin wrote a little thing about this Witcher 3 race stuff. I've nothing to add here, except the dude in the comments section who starts off with "with respect" and then goes on to imply Austin's an idiot and pulled a figure "out of his ass" made me laugh. And cringe.
Incandenza
Banned
But my Saturday morning cartoons!
If this is what Walker considers a "quick response" I'm excited to see the meatier pieces he puts out in the future.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I thought that's what the whole thing about Zerrakania was about. As in, yeah, the Witcher universe isn't just Slavic dudes, there is minor diversity there, as there is in Poland, however slim it is.
Eh, maybe, but the way the games handle Zerrikanian is identical to how the books handle Zerrakania: hardly at all.
Yep.
Sure, but the option's there to explore it further if they wanted to. I do however feel that Witcher 3 isn't a very good game to have discussion around both because of the cultural context and because of the source material being very, very white. There's plenty of gender and race problems in games, but I honestly can't fault the devs of Witcher 3 too much.
Hot Coldman
Banned
You could probably then say the original books have the same problem, right? It's easy to throw one's hands up and claim fealty to source material, but it's just as easy to then apply your criticism across both the adaptation and the source material.
On top of that, the nature of games as a medium means you see more of the wider world than in a book or a film. There's no director's intent about what parts of the world you're seeing, or a constant tracking eye on certain characters; you have to build that world, and everything you build is available for consumption and then criticism.
I've no real side here, having experienced literally none of the Witcher side, that's just my two cents. The Witcher seems like a fairly well-realised world, politically speaking, so I don't want to bag on it too much for the one thing it never really tries to tackle. But for those that do, the source material isn't an iron-clad defence.
Felix Lighter
Member
As someone who absolutely adores the Witcher 3, the criticism about the lack of diversity is 100% valid. I would have loved to have seen some travelers from far off lands coming to the Northern Kingdoms. There's a massive war going on, so even if you argue that in this fantasy world the area is dominated by white races, I'd expect mercenaries and profiteers from around the world coming to take advantage.
The 3 main arguments arguing against it that I disagree with the most are:
1. The insufferable "don't tell the artist what to create" argument that has been oh so common when anyone dare criticize a game about diversity or representation. Strangely, you rarely ever see the same argument when it comes to game play mechanic and other design decision criticisms. I know the source of this argument's new popularity, which makes it that much more irritating.
2. The "it wouldn't make sense for other races to be represented," which seems to be a desire to perpetuate the whitewashing of history. It's all the more absurd when it's a fictional fantasy world.
3. "Don't add diversity for diversity's sake." Like any non-white race character needs to justify their existence. This one I understand the least. How about diversity for the sake of realism. How about don't alienate for no good reason?
The 3 main arguments arguing against it that I disagree with the most are:
1. The insufferable "don't tell the artist what to create" argument that has been oh so common when anyone dare criticize a game about diversity or representation. Strangely, you rarely ever see the same argument when it comes to game play mechanic and other design decision criticisms. I know the source of this argument's new popularity, which makes it that much more irritating.
2. The "it wouldn't make sense for other races to be represented," which seems to be a desire to perpetuate the whitewashing of history. It's all the more absurd when it's a fictional fantasy world.
3. "Don't add diversity for diversity's sake." Like any non-white race character needs to justify their existence. This one I understand the least. How about diversity for the sake of realism. How about don't alienate for no good reason?
MadLaughter
Member
Having read a few articles about the issue with Witcher 3, I'll agree that it's a little weird that there aren't even a couple people of color somewhere in there. I don't think CDPR deserves to be raked over the coals for it, because it probably wasn't malicious. But I definitely think it's fair to be disappointed, and to point it out to them, and hope that they do better in the future with an increased awareness.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
This whole thing feels completely out or proportion to me, thanks to the friendly folks who run around screaming "YOU CAN'T CRITICISE THEM FOR THAT". Yes you can. It's actually pretty easy.
People need to realise that criticising something isn't the same as hating it. It is absolutely fair to say "Hey, CDP please think about making your next game more diverse". There is nothing wrong with it. CDP can handle themselves, they are big boys. They can deal with a little criticism.
I read the books, I don't remember a line like "And there were absolutely no black people around anywhere. The end"
So saying "but the books!" is a weak excuse.
Also
at the end of the books, so I feel like they already took some artistic liberty. People don't need to make excuses for CDP, they can deal with it.
*COUGH*Mass Effect 3 ending *COUGH*
People need to realise that criticising something isn't the same as hating it. It is absolutely fair to say "Hey, CDP please think about making your next game more diverse". There is nothing wrong with it. CDP can handle themselves, they are big boys. They can deal with a little criticism.
I read the books, I don't remember a line like "And there were absolutely no black people around anywhere. The end"
So saying "but the books!" is a weak excuse.
Also
GERALT FUCKING DIES
*COUGH*Mass Effect 3 ending *COUGH*
Piston Hyundai
Member
where are the black people in sleeping dogs
why isn't anyone else as upset about this as me
stump sock
Member
the elder scrolls games should be a model example to follow because they do diversity well and relatively effortlessly
for all the other problems that series has, at least you can say that much about it
for all the other problems that series has, at least you can say that much about it
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
There is a rumor going around that Fallout 4 will only let you play as a male, and I see people being excited about this because "it will piss off the SJWs!!"
Yeah, the same people who scream bloody murder every time they see an argument being made in favour of more diversity in a game, against the rape scene in Hotline Miami 2 etc. probably didn't have ANY problem with Bioware "changing" that ending based on the massive outrage.
The internet really needs to learn the difference between criticism and trying to get something changed/banned. They're not the same.
The original casting was supposed to be both male and female, at least according to the documents Kotaku obtained in 2013 or whatever. Seems weird if they've changed it.
stump sock
Member
that would kind of bum me out if true because I play as women 100% of the time* when the option is available
*except Mass Effect because femshep just always seemed too serious and playing as the male Space Douchebag was too funny to me. something about that guy's voice and intonation always cracked me up
funkystudent
Member
Speaking of Fallout 4.
I really hope you can pick voices for the main character because I really dont want to have my MC for a 100 hour game be Troy Baker. Nothing against him but enough is enough already.
Or ya know. Maybe I make a lady if they only have 1 voice per gender.
I really hope you can pick voices for the main character because I really dont want to have my MC for a 100 hour game be Troy Baker. Nothing against him but enough is enough already.
Or ya know. Maybe I make a lady if they only have 1 voice per gender.
I think the Witcher handles a fuckton of issues with a lot of grace that video games either handle badly, or don't even bother touching. I'm specifically thinking of racism and racial tension, homophobia, domestic violence, trans identity and eugenics.
So when I read an article like that one that spawned the gaming side discussion a few days ago that says CPDR probably forgot black people exist hence no representation my eyes roll pretty far back in my head.
I agree with the article's core point; you could pretty easily represent racial diversity in the Witcher without compromising the game or the lore (shit I'd love to learn more about Zerrakania and it's culture). I just think that failing to do so is not such a terrible flaw given that the Witcher is clearly interested in allegorising the discrimination of racial minorities in our own world with a lot of stuff in that game's lore.
It's a popular current release so I get why it's receiving that scrutiny. I just suppose I want to say to CDPR "you did great, but here's how you can do even better" rather than the "you fucked up" tone.
So when I read an article like that one that spawned the gaming side discussion a few days ago that says CPDR probably forgot black people exist hence no representation my eyes roll pretty far back in my head.
I agree with the article's core point; you could pretty easily represent racial diversity in the Witcher without compromising the game or the lore (shit I'd love to learn more about Zerrakania and it's culture). I just think that failing to do so is not such a terrible flaw given that the Witcher is clearly interested in allegorising the discrimination of racial minorities in our own world with a lot of stuff in that game's lore.
It's a popular current release so I get why it's receiving that scrutiny. I just suppose I want to say to CDPR "you did great, but here's how you can do even better" rather than the "you fucked up" tone.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Yeah, this whole brouhahahahaha takes the eyes off the elephants in the room, but ALOT of people have shoved their chips into shaky bets that ain't looking too good due to the heated arguments.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
So apparently theres a danswers shirt
Why was I not informed about this
Why was I not informed about this
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The dude really shouldn't have started of with saying that there was no such thing as slavic mythology though.
Glitchesarecool
Member
Also considering that Fallout 3 let you play as whatever gender, as do most open world games, I don't think they'll go male only.
Likely it's just wishful thinking of that distrusting, puss-filled tumor that sits on the corner of the gaming internet.
Where?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
What if troy baker voices the lady?
Glitchesarecool
Member
But Renegade femshep is the best possible Shepard
Renegade Femshep is the only way to play ME.
TheMrPliskin
Member
It was a real dumb point my gut tells me was born from reading the Slavic mythology page on Wikipedia and misunderstanding what "no first hand records" means when it comes to folklore rather than anything more insidious.
stump sock
Member
I played through all of Saint's Row 2/3/4 with a blue-haired anime looking chick with the male cockney voice
I will go ahead and say that those games probably have my favorite character creation systems as a result
I will go ahead and say that those games probably have my favorite character creation systems as a result
Glitchesarecool
Member
The zombie voice option in Saints Row is the best.
Witcher 3 (of as much as I've played of it) always seemed like a deeply considered world. Almost everything was placed with intention with respect to lore and world events. That doesn't mean that PoC couldn't be seamlessly integrated in though through an involved sidequest (or even part of the main quest ala Witcher 1). CPR could've run out of time, or maybe they never intended to put them in in the first place (considering the Northern Kingdoms in a warzone and Zerrikania is even further away from it than Nilfgaard), but the absence of PoC never felt out of place to me, not in the way an open world game set in relatively modern times would.
stump sock
Member
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Oh I agree that it wasn't anything insidious, but you really shouldn't put misinformation that can be easily used to dismiss your argument.
nckillthegrimace
Member
I played through those games as the Grimace. He's even Saints' color!
Yeah pretty much. As I said in that thread, it's kind of hypocritical to call out something for being regressive in terms of representation and then call a cultural mythology we don't usually see represented in games somehow unworthy.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Quick question: Are you two referring to Austin, or the writer of that Polygon piece?
funkystudent
Member
Banner contest is churning out some winners
Incandenza
Banned
Yo jimmyfenix is your avatar the result of an avatar bet? I'm suddenly noticing a lot of people in OT with the same one.
Banner contest is churning out some winners
Fantastic.
razgriz417
Member
NumberThree
Member
Beastcast is so fucking good. I don't mind them having guests but it seems to work really well with just Vinny, Alex and Austin; they're a great combination. The Hearthstone bit in this week's episode had me struggling to not make weird noises on the train.
I like this one:
Banner contest is churning out some winners
I like this one:
Hot Coldman
Banned
I wonder what Alex's Game of the Week will be this week
- Status