Can't trust robots.
A much better article than the previous one. Improving diversity comes slow, and at the effort of everyone.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Giant Bomb #14 | I'll Never Forget This!
- Thread starter Jimmyfenix
- Start date
- Status
Can't trust robots.
A much better article than the previous one. Improving diversity comes slow, and at the effort of everyone.
chaobreaker
Member
Honestly, I don't get why Austin had to explain that one paragraph he made on that forum post. If you got offended on behalf of the people asking why a game like Witcher 3 "should include PoC", then you're probably an asshole who won't change their attitude on topics like this.
Glitchesarecool
Member
can't trust that new hire
They could also be Polish
SatelliteOfLove
Member
There ain't been a game I've beaten that some guy in the OT woudn't go "OK IVE ALREADY BEATEN IT NOW FOR NG+/SECOND PLAYTHRU WITH A TWIST LOL" 3 days later but I've realized that's just the one guy and it centers me.
Glitchesarecool
Member
Huh, I wonder if they'll split the streams to give offices a break (east leading for time of course) or if they'll both do 24 hr streams and you'll have to decide which to give your time and/or money to.
chaobreaker
Member
You can't just hide behind an excuse like "I come from a country that's 99% white" to explain why a game like TW3 doesn't have single PoC in its huge fantasy world. It's a ridiculous attitude to have.
Why doesn't he post it on the actual site?
It's not. This is a good read on the matter.
The Witcher 3 is a Polish developed game based on the works of a Polish author. "Why should games have more minorities?" isn't a good question but "Why should The Witcher 3 have minorities characters?" is because of the unique development history of the game. The vast majority of big games come out of North America, Canada and the U.K. so we need to adjust how we examine games when they come from other regions.
To me it comes off as questioning why Bollywood movies don't have more Japanese people in them. Questioning Asian representation in media is a perfectly valid thing to do but you can't apply the same sweeping critique to all media.
I think he didn't post it on the site because it's just his initial thoughts on the matter which he wrote down over ~15 minutes as opposed to a piece he's worked on for hours/days.
Piston Hyundai
Member
tell me more about the sociopolitical landscape of poland
...why not?
chaobreaker
Member
Is it crazy to expect a AAA game developer like CD Projekt RED would develop a game in mind of the huge international audience they are going to market their game to?
it's worth discussing, and people often say things without fully thinking through the flow-on effects from their words completely
why don't more bollywood movies have more japanese people in them?
i don't see anything that makes the line of questioning invalid. certainly there's answers and nuances and things to consider and i suppose you modulate the tone and intensity (so to speak) of the questioning depending on variant factors but it's still legitimate discussion
Oh I get it, by asking all works to be multiracial (particularly through the lens of America's own view of diversity), you're actually forcing homogeneity of diversity.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
They're fine with having white ass dudes on bollywood though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRzGBHcDcho
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I'm on the weird part of this thread again
santeesioux
Member
Why doesn't the Witcher 3 have any Native Americans in it?
well you are, i guess, but also nah?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Actually the one impressively racially diverse thing I've seen recently is REC. The chinese population is miniscule in spain yet they have a chinese/japanese couple in that movie.
Sure they're primarily there to make the other racist characters suffer some weird karmic thing for their hypocrisy, but they're still there!
Sure they're primarily there to make the other racist characters suffer some weird karmic thing for their hypocrisy, but they're still there!
It's a pukey mess of words I know
yup, not even the boss can override the rest of the crew.
LurkerPrime
Member
"They don't exist" probably won't suffice, so I'll just tell it like it is: in the Witcher, the Conjunction of the Spheres destroyed North America.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
We're not getting another Vinnyvania, Old Games Show, Demo Derby, or Metal Gear Scanlon until after E3, are we?
It's been over 3 weeks since the last one of those things, and I need my fix of content about old games.
It's been over 3 weeks since the last one of those things, and I need my fix of content about old games.
Daily Destiny it is
So B-Ball will never grace The Continent. Tsk, such a shame.
pretty much. i can't wait for the E3 content but i also want the regular shows back too.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
That's it. Cancel E3. We have demos of PS1 Mary Kate and Ashley games that need covering.
Seriously though, I'm looking forward to the E3 content too, and understand why it might cut into the time to make their other shows. I guess I'll just watch the old Doom 2 Breaking Brad or Backflips and Bioforge again.
personally, i want to see more fantasy universe set in messed up real universe. It's one of the reasons I love Shadowrun, a Dragon was briefly elected President of the USA (what remained of it)
I always wait until the season is over to watch tv shows, but the reaction to this episode has me excited.
Agreed. And I'm happy that the discussion in the comments was pretty much as level-headed as I've seen in regards to this topic. Some assholes, but a huge improvement over how this discussion would've gone if this was a year ago. I guess banning a bunch of bigots really can make a difference.
the worst (relative worst) comment in the thread is a guy being super nitpicky about grammar lol
if that's the worst, then gb community and/or troll protection has come a long way
If I can't attack your points I CAN AT LEAST ATTACK YOUR GRAMMAR!
I have to agree. And dare I say, if Hitman turns up, I might be more intrigued about the next Hitman than the new Deus Ex. For both, it's because we've seen virtually no footage of the games. Because of the disappointment of Absolution, I hope it gets back to its roots.
Also, wow, the D Pad thread has quite the vicious argument.
I'm waiting till something like that hits the front page before reading much into it.
Same here, I am totally going to play a new Fallout, but I am more curious about Doom. I still have this old school love for id and a good demon blasting FPS would be awesome.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I defenitely want to see Doom more. I love Fallout but guess what. It's more Fallout.
I don't expect Bethesda will make any drastic changes to the "Elder Scrolls" formula so F4 will most likely be like F3.
Doom though. I have no idea what to expect. Is it just a shooter where you kill demons from Mars and/or Hell? Or will it be something more? Do I even want it to be something more? I have no idea.
Hmmm...see I think this is a valid explanation how this happened, not necessarily an excuse. I highly doubt CDP are racist in any way (hell, just look at how they portray racists in their games) but if you come from a country where you basically only see and work with white people it is easy to just forget to put PoC in your game. You just don't think about it.
In the Iwata asks for the Wii they said this happened when creating miis that they didn't include darker skin tones until it was pointed out by NOA, because it just never occurred to them.
Hot Coldman
Banned
ding ding ding
this conversation gets so much easier when we stop inferring the hows or whys about why
this sort of thing happens, and just focus on a) that it happened and b) the impact that has on players, world building and c) future diversity in games
Jeevesmeister
Banned
PoC exist in The Witcher universe and have appeared in the games previously. Wild Hunt is essentially centered around the conflict of the Northern Crusades
Also its really weird that a developer in a country that has been brutally oppressed by tyrannical regimes for hundreds of years (including the Nazis and Stalin) that went out of their way to try and destroy the Slavic identity, including the destruction of ancient manuscripts and other historical and cultural items of note, is having demands placed on it by critics in one of the most imperialistic countries of all time. Not even mentioning the fact Witcher as a franchise is largely a cultural work of preserving and breathing new life into original Slavic folklore.
Dr Duncan Steel
Member
That's like saying that Final Fantasy is preserving and breathing new life into original Indian folklore by making Shiva a hot chick with ice powers.
Well a lot more people know that Shiva exists now =_=
Right? She's so hot AND cold. I'd convert to Hinduism just for her. ♥_♥
Jeevesmeister
Banned
You tried this argument in the dedicated thread (now locked) and fell flat on your face. Again, to reiterate:
Poland itself only recently gained independence in 1989, after decades of Soviet oppression (rapes, mass executions, etc) in the wake of World War 2 and the Nazi occupation, including the establishment of Auschwitz on Polish soil. This isn't even talking about the modern bigotry Slavic people face across Europe to this day.
It's half the reason Witcher has been so successful on the level of Lord of the Rings, because while Tolkien was largely influenced by the horrors of World War 1, Witcher is dealing with the Polish identity and issues they as a people have faced going back centuries - the core conflict of Wild Hunt is the Northern Crusades, for example. Elves and Dwarves aren't a stand in for PoC, but instead minorities Poland has dealt with in its past, including the Roma peoples.
"bu-but dragons and magic!! duhhhooiii" is only selling the power of fantasy literature short, cheapening it to be nothing more than generic hero's journeys and depressingly meaningless nonsense.
- Status