stump sock
Member
it's funny watching these demos how fast the framerates are on these games
what has happened to video games
what has happened to video games
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Giant Bomb #14 | I'll Never Forget This!
- Thread starter Jimmyfenix
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Jimmyfenix
Member
when you get someone like insomniac dismissing framerate i would tend to believe the majority of other devs have the same viewpoint
stump sock
Member
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
It's what happens when development gets extremely expensive and everyone shifts over to a middleware that is basically capped at 30 fps on consoles (UE3). The real (and dickish) answer is that 60 fps never left the PC realm so it's not as if there wasn't a means of enjoying gameplay at that level during the last couple of generations.
It's only going to get worse with the fact that this generation's machines were a half step tech-wise. You're probably only going to get 60 fps consistently in AAA games from COD and maybe the Battlefield games while other developers are content with just trying to hit 1080p with a consistent framerate. I suppose indie games, too, but those games tend to not push any machine that hard.
Glitchesarecool
Member
Does Nintendo not count as AAA now?
They became things people look at rather than things people play.
Jimmyfenix
Member
Well with missing content in games and hiding dlc in amiibos i would say they are AAA now
Glitchesarecool
Member
I'm not sure what you're talking about with that first point, and to the second, isn't Hyrule Warriors the only game that actually locks any mechanics away? I thought everything else was cosmetic and optional.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
AAA is purely about budget.
Jimmyfenix
Member
splatoon is the perfect example of nintendo acting like a typical AAA publisher.
Glitchesarecool
Member
Can you stop being vague and actually describe what you're talking about, as I'm someone who hasn't been paying attention to Splatoon news in anticipation of trying to play it cold.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Well, I just assumed that he/she was referencing the last couple of xbox/playstation generations given their comments about the demo derby videos so i was only speaking about those machines.
Nintendo does 60 fps with what, mario kart and their mainline mario games? And even with the mario games, Super mario 3d land was 30 fps and mario kart hasn't always been a 60 fps franchise either. They hit 60 when they can but aren't exactly shying away from 30 when needed, either.
and this. I'm not disparaging nintendo by excluding them, just that they're not known for making hugely expensive games.
Developers stopped giving a shit about the playing a video game part of playing video games, so things like framerate that actually affect your enjoyment of playing the game are unimportant.
Glitchesarecool
Member
Ah.
Bayo and Smash were both 60fps pretty consistently unless you played online over a crappy connection. Apparently Splatoon is too. I think most in house aim for that 60fps mark.
To be fair there are other console games that do the 60fps, notably Killer Instinct, mostly out of principle of making a good fighting game.
Felix Lighter
Member
Targeting 60 fps on consoles is a gamble at this point. It's a big investment of resources and it's still hard to market. Your screenshots and videos are still going to be compared to the better looking 30 fps games your competing against. Even with 60 fps video, you can't showcase the biggest advantage, improved responsiveness of controls. Hell, some people have become so used to 30 fps games that a 60 fps video actually looks weird to them. You just have to hope that the better feel results in a better reception or there are enough informed users that recognize the higher framerate advantages to justify the investment. It's easier to throw your hands up and target 30 out of the gate.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Bayo isn't really a nintendo game, though. It's a Platinum game that was published by Nintendo. That just reminds me, what i would give for a 60 fps version of Vanquish. Might be my favorite game out of them.
And i forgot about smash, but smash would be an exception in the fighting game genre and dismissed by the community if it wasn't 60 fps. Not to say that their effort isn't worth acknowledging but people would be crushing Nintendo if they fucked up and made a 30 fps Smash game.
Jimmyfenix
Member
The lack of multiplayer modes at launch
only 5 maps
basic features such as voice chat and friend matchmaking missing which the latter will be patched in august.
They are giving away free dlc though but this game is just reminding me of titanfall.
I am not saying it will be bad but splatoon is the first game i look at and think Nintendo is just like any other AAA publisher patching in core stuff months after release.
shadyspace
Banned
Dan sounds like a real hipster during this Napoleon Dynamite section of Demo Derby.
stump sock
Member
I saw it before knowing anything about it. A local arthouse theater got it when it was still in super limited release, and I genuinely liked it.
It didn't take too long before it got out there and I was overexposed to it to the point of resenting it. nothing quite like running jokes so far into the ground that they come out the other side of the planet and shoot into orbit
Jimmyfenix
Member
american "biscuits" look like scones to me
Hipster is the most misused word in the English language right now.
Not being able to really separate people's reaction to something with the thing itself is pretty common. But that's not what hipster means. Borat is an example of something that got way less funny to me the second time I watched it because the internet had just killed so many of those jokes.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
American biscuits aren't really like scones. More flaky, less fluffy.
Jimmyfenix
Member
better than the fries and chips discussion!
Yeah I agree with Jeff that you need to separate your feelings on the thing from how people react to the thing, but I can also sympathize with Dan's point that people running something into the ground can really impact your enjoyment of that thing because everytime you see it, you remember all those shitty references. Like how when you smell something it's close to the part of your brain that contains memory.
All true sadly. Sacrifices are being made to fit the hardware and business model.
If you want 60 FPS on modern AAA games, you pretty much need to go PC. While these new consoles are the most powerful yet, it feels like we skipped the step this generation where the consoles were out in front for a little while whilst PC gaming caught up.
stump sock
Member
"People will ruin anything if you give them the chance." 
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I mean giantbomb is not the best at separating public feelings from the actual piece.
Remember how brad said that the response on Jeff's view on yoshi island made him not like the game?
Remember how brad said that the response on Jeff's view on yoshi island made him not like the game?
Backfoggen
Banned
BREMBO!
Glitchesarecool
Member
The cost of production of a "pc style" console is fascinating to me. I feel like we should be at that point in this generation, but so far this has been a mild upgrade from the previous one on all fronts.
shadyspace
Banned
I don't especially like the term either but changing your opinion on something/basing your opinion on something based on the fact that it is widely enjoyed is what hipsters have always been classically denigrated for.
TheMrPliskin
Member
You need to weigh in on this heavy issue Myggen.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Both console makers took a page from Nintendo's book in regards to hardware and decided to do a half measure's worth of an upgrade instead of a full-on new powerhouse machine with the reasoning being that neither could afford to take huge losses on their machines for years anymore. And, as much as people bitch about these machines being underpowered compared to what their expectations were, just look at the glut of HD remasters and lack of full on AAA games. If publishers are still being incredibly risk adverse even with these half step machines how likely would it have been that the situation wouldve been even worse if sony and microsoft went all in on expensive and powerful consoles?
With that in mind, the smart thing to do for everyone is to not have pushed the tech boundaries too hard with these machines. So many developers and publishers were lost in the transition to the last gen partly due to exponentially rising costs of production and a market that seemingly rejected midrange productions. When even the EAs and Activisions of the world are down to a handful of games a year you know that the industry couldn't handle machines that were full generational steps forward.
There's a key difference here: He never said that people liking something like Borat made him enjoy the movie less, it was because people just running the jokes into the ground by repeating them over and over and over and over again. Which is the same thing that happened to Napoleon Dynamite. The classic "hipster" is someone who begins to dislike something just because it becomes popular, which isn't the case here. This is a lot more specific than that.
And I agree with Dan to some degree, especially with comedies I have a hard time separating the movie from people's reaction to it if it becomes extreme like with Borat. It's not that I stop respecting the film because it's popular, but stuff like that just destroys jokes and bits for me.
Nah, I'm good!
I'm gonna sit this one out and wait for the trunk/boot hood/bonnet truck/lorry discussion.
scone chips hmmm
stump sock
Member
I think boot is a better name, but bonnet sounds stupid. I'm torn!
Glitchesarecool
Member
I only worry that this sort of mentality will lead to continual half steps and disappointments. I can't take another generation of HD re-releases and inconsequential sequels.
You can have some chips in the mean time. Then we can root for our favourite team.
Also, fanny.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
If there's a continual rise in the cost of developement without an increase in the returns it will only get worse.
TheMrPliskin
Member
Sounds like you have a bee in your bonnet.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
i'd say prepare yourself because that's pretty much what we're in for. unless some sort of revolutionary technique comes out in the next few years that allows for high quality assets to be produced at a faster and more affordable rate, there's 0 incentive to keep making leaps in gaming related tech. The limitations that publishers and developers are facing these days are more associated with how expensive and time consuming it is to produced a fully fleshed out AAA game. And even those that are coming out are trying to find alternate revenue streams to avoid charging more at retail, with season passes, microtransactions, and more F2P-like systems being put in place to help mitigate the cost of production.
so the options seem to be the ones i just listed, or to raise the price of retail games. If consumers find neither of those palatable, then publishers/developers will become even more risk adverse and you'll basically have a version of what's already happening in Japan happen in the west: Huge publishers abandoning expensive and risky productions and putting their resources instead into dozens and dozens of low-to-medium cost mobile productions, hoping that one of their investment darts hits bullseye and they make an absurdly stupid amount of money with little to no risk involved. It's a lot easier and less riskier to chase Puzzle and Dragons than it is to chase Call of Duty, for example
Personally, I feel that we've been slowing seeing the death of both consoles and AAA productions over the last 5 years or so and it wouldn't shock me if what we see happening over at Konami isn't just a symptom of what is the eventual end of the glut of AAA productions as we know it, with maybe a handful of decent releases a year and that's that.
stump sock
Member
not to put too fine a point on it...
Glitchesarecool
Member
It will be interesting to experience a significant change in the gaming market ala the gaming crash, I guess that's what I can say. Thankfully PC development seems lush still.
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