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Giant Bomb #15 | Just a Clip-On Tie

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Somebody explain Peace Walker to me. Thanks.

something something undercover high school spy something something big robot boss battles something something strangelove something something going on dates with kaz and undercover high school spy something something fighting monster hunter monsters
 
God, if the Quiet thing turns out to be
Chico as a trans woman, as has been widely speculated, and the whole punchline is "Haha! That sexy lady was really a boy! Bet you feel gross now, huh?"

It might just be the grossest thing Kojima has ever done, and the game would get fucking reamed for it.

If that did end up being canon, I'd hope Kojima had enough tact for it to not be a punchline.
 

zeshakag

Member
So is the reason people would find the Quiet transsexual theory being true gross because of the potential exploitation of social commentary about the game? As someone who wasn't bothered by the whole Paz thing in Ground Zeroes I think it could be very interesting plotwise.
 
If that did end up being canon, I'd hope Kojima had enough tact for it to not be a punchline.

Well, Quiet is already looking to be a badass sniper who can shoot grenades into helicopters, and who is generally kickass. Covered with blood. And she seems confident in herself.

So as far as a non-stereotypical representation of a transwoman, I think Quiet does a good job.

So is the reason people would find the Quiet transsexual theory being true gross because of the potential exploitation of social commentary about the game? As someone who wasn't bothered by the whole Paz thing in Ground Zeroes I think it could be very interesting plotwise.

I think people will think that she'll be a punchline and just joked about.
 
So is the reason people would find the Quiet transsexual theory being true gross because of the potential exploitation of social commentary about the game? As someone who wasn't bothered by the whole Paz thing in Ground Zeroes I think it could be very interesting plotwise.

It seems like a plot line that could be handled super disrespectfully and grossly very easily and I don't have faith in Kojima to do it well.
 
So is the reason people would find the Quiet transsexual theory being true gross because of the potential exploitation of social commentary about the game? As someone who wasn't bothered by the whole Paz thing in Ground Zeroes I think it could be very interesting plotwise.

Nah, I think Jim is worried that we'll get a lot of "L1 to look at Quiet's chest" moments and then have kojima make it seem like a big "gotcha!!" moment to the player at the "reveal."

Which is a totally valid thing to be worried about.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that kojima could very well pull something like that. I mean, in MGS4, when you tranq the beauties,
it turns into a super seductive kinda thing
and they're supposed to be PTSD addled women transformed by war into maniacs.

Wow Peace Walker got really good reviews.

It is, no joke, the best playing metal gear. Like, its the only one (if you play the HD version) that has good controls and a good framerate.
 
Nah, I think Jim is worried that we'll get a lot of "L1 to look at Quiet's chest" moments and then have kojima make it seem like a big "gotcha!!" moment to the player at the "reveal."

Which is a totally valid thing to be worried about.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that kojima could very well pull something like that. I mean, in MGS4, when you tranq the beauties,
it turns into a super seductive kinda thing
and they're supposed to be PTSD addled women transformed by war into maniacs.

That would really test the mettle of some people, though wouldn't it? Like if there's alot of prompts to do pervy stuff like there usually is, and then it turns out she used to be a man? I mean, if anything it'll cause people to either revolt in disgust because of their binary understanding of gender and sex, or make people think about something like that.

It'd be a good thing IMO. Make people question themselves.
 
That would really test the mettle of some people, though wouldn't it? Like if there's alot of prompts to do pervy stuff like there usually is, and then it turns out she used to be a man? I mean, if anything it'll cause people to either revolt in disgust because of their binary understanding of gender and sex, or make people think about something like that.

It'd be a good thing IMO. Make people question themselves.

I don't know. I really don't. It depends how it's handled. With Kojima, I don't think there's gonna be a gray area. It's either "oh this was handled really well" or "uugghhhh"

Edit: with the first person stuff with Eva in a vacuum in MGS3, it almost feels like it's okay, because Kojima is playing with the James Bond style trope of a bond girl, and you sorta get it. But the Rose stuff...
 

jgminto

Member
Yeah. Basically, I'm wondering what story gaps Phantom Pain will be filling in or not. Does PW explain how Big Boss transforms from the guy in Snake Eater to Metal Gear 1 dude?

Kinda, yes. It's probably one of the stupidest sequences in the series. I mean MGS4 is the most convoluted mess in the series. But the first ending of Peace Walker is fucking DUUUUUUUUUUUUMB! It's one of the reasons I really want to see a Drew/Dan story playthrough.
 
Okay so,


Big Boss, after help found the Patriots with the other MGS3 people, gets increasingly frustrated with Zero and how he's being used as a political symbol. The final straw is when he discovers that they're cloning him. He leaves the US and forms a mercenary company, and meets a young Master Miller (named Kazuhira Miller, the explanation being that he's half-Japanese) on the opposite side of a fight. Together they run Militaires Sans Frontieres, (Soldiers Without Borders), though they have very little money or equipment.

One day in 1974, a Costa Rican professor and a young student of his named Paz show up and claim that mysterious soldiers are being sighted in Costa Rica. Costa Rica's constitution prevents any standing army, and thus if something is wrong they have no defenses. Big Boss soon realizes that the "professor" is a KGB operative named Zadornov, and the troops in question are probably American backed. However, Paz produces a tape that appears to have recorded The Boss's voice in Costa Rica. Big Boss takes the mission, and MSF moves to a derelict oil rig off of South America.

Big Boss soons meets up with Sandinistas driven from Nicaragua, and learns that the troops are actually CIA black ops, and they're backed by mysterious advanced armored vehicles that sing. Eventually he learns that these mechs have crude artificial intelligence, prototypes for something called "Peace Walker." Two scientists work on Peace Walker: a programmer known by the alias of Strangelove, who had an infatuation with The Boss when she was alive, and a disabled engineer named "Huey" (it's Otacon's dad). Both of these scientists leave the project and join MSF, where they start work on a new project.

The CIA operative running the Peace Walker project is named Hot Coldman, and he was the one who planned Operation Snake Eater in MGS3. Politics saw him ousted from the head of the CIA and demoted to a backwater, and he intends to use Peace Walker to demonstrate his ideology: deterrence at any cost.

Huey explains what Peace Walker is: using the technology developed by Granin in MGS3, Peace Walker is the first culmination of the "Metal Gear" concept: a walking nuclear vehicle. However, to ensure no human hesitation in a nuclear war scenario, Peace Walker is equipped with an advanced AI that mimics the human brain. This AI is patterned after the greatest soldier ever known: The Boss. Coldman intends to use Peace Walker's nuclear launch as a demonstration of power, which he feels is necessary for MAD to be a viable strategy.

Big Boss eventually fights Peace Walker, in an attempt to finally understand why The Boss was able to accept her mission to die in MGS3. Peace Walker, influenced by The Boss's mind, actually destroys itself to prevent its launch from occurring. Big Boss realizes that The Boss wanted to put away her life of war, and feels betrayed; he only knows how to fight, and considers The Boss's actions to have been a rejection of him as well. He vows that he'll create a world where soldiers will never be rejected and always have a place to fight. [this is the first ending]


With all that settled, it seems that MSF has grown into a successful mercenary business, with Big Boss's legendary skill and reputation and Kaz Miller's business acumen. They're even building their own Metal Gear, Metal Gear ZEKE, with Huey and Strangelove's help. However, Zadornov, who was captured for interfering with their plans, keeps managing to escape somehow. On the final escape attempt, Big Boss discovers that he was covering for Paz, who has hijacked ZEKE and is planning to launch a nuclear attack to frame MSF for terrorism.

Paz reveals that she is actually an adult woman named Pacifica Ocean, and that she was recruited by "Cipher" (the prototypical form of the Patriots) and forced to destroy Big Boss and MSF for refusing to return to their control. Big Boss disables ZEKE and Paz falls into the ocean. Miller then reveals that he was aware of who Paz was all along: he had been trying to use Cipher's funding to help build MSF into a successful business. Big Boss remarks that now the whole world will be after them, and makes a speech to his troops about how they are now a part of Outer Heaven.
 
my fingers hurt

I thought that

Big Boss wasn't an initial founder of the patriots, but joined up with them after some convincing from Zero? Like, they both go their separate ways, and Zero founds the patriots, then Big Boss joins, then gets mad when they start cloning him? Like, Big Boss has three faction changes or something like that.

Also, all that stuff is covered in portable ops,right?
 

robotrock

Banned
That would really test the mettle of some people, though wouldn't it? Like if there's alot of prompts to do pervy stuff like there usually is, and then it turns out she used to be a man? I mean, if anything it'll cause people to either revolt in disgust because of their binary understanding of gender and sex, or make people think about something like that.

It'd be a good thing IMO. Make people question themselves.

I think the problem would be Kojima's famous tweet, "You will be ashamed of your words and deeds." Like, fuck man. What the fuck Kojima? Is it less cool that I masturbated while thinking of her because after I ejaculated, I found out she was born a boy? The fuck? And if I don't think that's less cool, does Kojima think that's less cool? If so, what the fuck Kojima? Fuck dude, man. Shit. I'm feeling uneasy about this game's launch. Seriously uneasy. Kojima man, please don't make it hard for me to love your game.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I really don't see "You will be ashamed of your deeds and words." as trans-shaming. Like, I really don't see it. Unless I'm missing some other context for it.
 
I thought that

Big Boss wasn't an initial founder of the patriots, but joined up with them after some convincing from Zero? Like, they both go their separate ways, and Zero founds the patriots, then Big Boss joins, then gets mad when they start cloning him? Like, Big Boss has three faction changes or something like that.

Also, all that stuff is covered in portable ops,right?

Sorta? The initial part doesn't really matter too much.

Portable Ops is in a really funky place canon-wise. Kojima didn't write it, but Konami promoted it as this "missing link" between MGS3 and Metal Gear 1 when it... really isn't. Furthermore, the only reference to the events of Portable Ops at all is at the very beginning of PW, when Miller says something like "glad to leave all that crap behind" (Miller wasn't even there). There's also a lot of weird incongruities where major things that happen in PoOps are pretty contradictory with events in PW, or are at least major enough to mention (but aren't) when a related subject comes in conversations.

Kojima's last statement on the game was that "it happened" but the details of what happened are completely up to being changed at any time if they want something else for the main games.
 

robotrock

Banned
I really don't see "You will be ashamed of your deeds and words." as trans-shaming. Like, I really don't see it. Unless I'm missing some other context for it.
It's the big question. I don't know what he's going to do with Quiet or who she is. Basically everything is speculation at this point.

We're all missing all the context.
 

hamchan

Member
Even Dan has to comment on Drew using grenades on these FROGS instead of just shooting them.

Haha Dan grimacing and shaking his head when Drew pulls them out again vs Laughing Octopus.
 

jgminto

Member
I'd avatar bet with someone that Quiet isn't Chico. It seems like another one of those dumb things that MGS fans think is "so crazy whoa!" and then turns out to be completely wrong when the game releases. The instances of that seem to have reached critical mass with TPP too.
 

valeo

Member
God, if the Quiet thing turns out to be
Chico as a trans woman, as has been widely speculated, and the whole punchline is "Haha! That sexy lady was really a boy! Bet you feel gross now, huh?"

It might just be the grossest thing Kojima has ever done, and the game would get fucking reamed for it.

Of course that will happen. Kojima is gross and always has been.
 

justjim89

Member
my fingers hurt

Well now your back's gonna hurt, cause you just pulled landscaping duty.

tumblr_ly63ddiYtu1r7uivno1_400.gif


I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.
 
I think the problem would be Kojima's famous tweet, "You will be ashamed of your words and deeds."

Like, fuck man. What the fuck Kojima? Is it less cool that I masturbated while thinking of her because after I ejaculated, I found out she was born a boy? The fuck?

And if I don't think that's less cool, does Kojima think that's less cool? If so, what the fuck Kojima? Fuck dude, man. Shit. I'm feeling uneasy about this game's launch. Seriously uneasy. Kojima man, please don't make it hard for me to love your game.

? She's a womans. Why would you have a problem with the fact that she was born a man? If you thought it was less cool, than that's on you. Not Kojima.

It'd be pretty biting commentary into how people react when they find someone they like(physically) is trans
 

robotrock

Banned
What could be some ways that Quiet could make you ashamed of your words and deeds?

Is she a secret Big Boss daughter, and it ends up being some kind of Oldboy situation where you feel bad after you found her attractive, if you're roleplaying as Big Boss?
 

jgminto

Member
Big Boss eventually fights Peace Walker, in an attempt to finally understand why The Boss was able to accept her mission to die in MGS3. Peace Walker, influenced by The Boss's mind, actually destroys itself to prevent its launch from occurring. Big Boss realizes that The Boss wanted to put away her life of war, and feels betrayed; he only knows how to fight, and considers The Boss's actions to have been a rejection of him as well. He vows that he'll create a world where soldiers will never be rejected and always have a place to fight. [this is the first ending]

This right here...ugh! The logic used in that entire scene was so completely flawed in so many ways I'm getting stress build up just thinking about it.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I always took the "You'll be ashamed of your words and deeds." as kojima's way of defending the character design which people are saying is sexist, not necessarily that they'll be ashamed for thinking she's hot.
 

justjim89

Member
I always took the "You'll be ashamed of your words and deeds." as kojima's way of defending the character design which people are saying is sexist, not necessarily that they'll be ashamed for thinking she's hot.

That's a valid thought, too. Like people will be ashamed of dismissing Quiet as a character for showing T&A.

In which case it'll probably be something silly like "Her magic powers come from the sun so she has to show as much skin as possible! See! It's not just sexy, it's functional!"
 

jgminto

Member
There's no possible way for Kojima to justify his choice for Quiet's outfit. It will always be a terrible outfit and whatever statement he tries to make with her character would work just fine even if she wasn't wearing fishnets and a bikini.

edit: Quiet's outfit will be justified for me personally if I can wear it as Snake though.
 

Zebetite

Banned
the whole quiet =
chico
is just a dumb memetic example of certain segments of the metal gear fanbase being capable of notorious and incredible acts of stupidity and having stupid conspiracy theories for every little thing. raiden happened well over a decade ago, people. he pulled exactly one promotional stunt with MGS5 and people literally saw through it on day one. konami employees were wearing fucking moby dick studios shirts.

the fact that it actually got picked up by vice is actually kind of blowing my mind



seriously, remember that head transplant shit? those are the people who are expecting something like this.

I'm pretty sure it's going to be Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

this comparison works better than i ever would have expected it to
 

jgminto

Member
the whole quiet =
chico
is just a dumb memetic example of certain segments of the metal gear fanbase being capable of notorious and incredible acts of stupidity and having stupid conspiracy theories for every little thing. raiden happened well over a decade ago, people. he pulled exactly one promotional stunt with MGS5 and people literally saw through it on day one. konami employees were wearing fucking moby dick studios shirts.

the fact that it actually got picked up by vice is actually kind of blowing my mind



seriously, remember that head transplant shit? those are the people who are expecting something like this.

They also still think Hayter will appear as Snake.
 

Zekes!

Member
Watching the latest Metal Gear Scanlon

Snake: "Dog, I'm on a mission here, can you just send me an email or leave a voicemail, I ain't got time for this shit"
 
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