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[LurkerPrime]

I can't help but think the legend of Hideo Kojima and Metal Gear Solid as a franchise are huge factors in GB's willingness to overlook/dismiss the unfinished nature of MGSV. And yes, it is unfinished; play complete the game and you'll be unable to disagree. Contrary to their defense, it's not an issue of cut content, but cut corners that is so maddening and disappointing overall. There's simply no excuse for these mistakes, and no reason to overlook them when ultimately judging the game.

MGSV could have been a true classic, but instead it's content to simply be.

There's a lot in MGS V but most of the extra content is extremely repetitive. There is literally

Spoiler

one

real boss battle in the game and barely any new situations introduced. It's filler quest design saved by incredible mechanics and changing enemy patterns.

It's not surprising that the crew wouldn't care or notice though given their love for games like Far Cry 3 and Saints Row.

Don't forget Shadow of Mordor.

 

[OdysseusVA]

I am willing, and I think it's great that some people are getting enjoyment out of the game, but to get at least 60 hours out of the game, you're not just playing the story missions. You're playing the repetitive side-ops, and I don't like it at all.

But likes Destiny

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Stuff gets cut, but games don't usually feel like they were cobbled together at the last minute, like they were assembled from scattered pieces that don't quite fit together.
I've never played a game or seen a work of creative art (whose creators survived the creation process) that felt so much like it was pushed out the door while they were still figuring out how to make it work.

I mean, you have to assume that Konami decided on a ship date somewhere around the time they decided that they'd be getting out of AAA development.

This game's production is a fascinating disaster, and it absolutely shows in the final product. I don't see what there is to gain by pretending that it's business as usual. It's not, and that's what makes its otherwise broken structure interesting to talk about, rather than a simple design fuck up (which probably should be inexcusable if you try to judge the game as its a complete product) .

The problem for me is that people are making it out to be a big, significant problem with the game when it really kind of has almost no effect on how tight everything is and how well the game plays. Honestly a

Spoiler

third fight with Sahalanthropus

would be overkill, however grandiose it was supposed to be.

Unless there's other cut content I'm not aware of? That particular part is all I've been hearing people talk about, and I don't have the CE.

Then again I am the kind of creature that loves the fuck out of Warframe and Monster Hunter, so maybe repetitiveness is something I can jive with.

 

[Liamc723]

But likes Destiny

Hey look, someone who hasn't played The Taken King or Destiny's raids.

 

[LiK]

went back to listen to the 75% MGSV ep and it was pretty fun. Glad I was past where they were when I listened. Can't wait to finish the game and listen to the spoilercast.

 

[stump sock]

Hey look, someone who hasn't played The Taken King or Destiny's raids.

but we're talking about side missions here,

 

[Liamc723]

but we're talking about side missions here,

He put the word repetitive in bold in his reply.

 

[LiK]

but we're talking about side missions here,

TTK's quests and raids are essentially side missions. optional stuff outside of the campaign. think of the raids as the subsistence missions

 

[tryagainlater]

I may have misunderstood the context but Dan just say the MGSV trailers were spot on. They're basically the most deceptive trailers ever especially in the sense that they promised that there would actually be a story.

Also, come on guys. The game is clearly unfinished. And not because of any cut content found in the PC files, don't care about that. Just playing the game shows how unfinished it is. Never played an unfinished game with as much content though so I don't blame some people for not caring.

 

[hamchan]

MGSV is an unfinished game with still more content than the majority of games, excluding non-important side-ops too.

Completely different situation to Destiny where it felt like an extreme dearth of content at launch, and in the two following DLCs for the price you paid.

It's just the age old problem of Kojima needing an editor again to heavily cut a lot of what he wants to do, except this time it was for the amount of game rather than the cutscenes. He's a bad project manager for not being realistic with the time and budget allotted to him, even if I do think he's an amazing game designer.

 

[Jintor]

The problem for me is that people are making it out to be a big, significant problem with the game when it really kind of has almost no effect on how tight everything is and how well the game plays.

sir i disagree

 

[Chance Hale]

Most of the main missions are the same as the side ops though. Ie run and and extract a prisoner or data and then listen to the cassette tapes afterwards. There are very few story missions that have interesting scenarios presented. It took me around 33 hours to beat the game and I feel like at least 5 of that was listening to cassette tapes. I did over 50 side ops and three of the hardcore or whatever versions of missions.

At a certain point to get those extreme playtimes you're just straight grinding out mmo garbage.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I was so divested in the story early on due to it's disjointed structure and

Spoiler

the disconnect between the returning characters in this game and their personalities in other games in the series, that by the time they decided to throw in a 'conclusion', I wasn't so bothered by the abrupt ending or the painfully obvious loose threads the left dangling or the fact that it didn't really answer any of the continuity questions people were hoping for. If I was a big MGS fan, someone really invested in the story to this point, I can total understand the massive disappoint in this game. I'm a fan of the series but with all the previous retconning and the tangled mess of MGS4, the continuity wasn't something I was too concerned about. The story, lacked cohesion, compelling characters with understandable motives and failed to convince me that it was actually a part of the series. I enjoyed all the time I put into the game but from a pure gameplay perspective.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Yeah, Felix, your experience is what I was wondering Dan would have. I sorta half-expected it, honestly, being the die-hard fan that he is. (Yes, this is also while I expected him to love it. I adore my contradictions.)

It's an unfinished game with still more content than the majority of games, excluding non-important side-ops too.

Do I really have to wheel out the ol' "it's not the length of a game that matters" argument, in the era of Journey and Gone Home? With Giant Bomb stating the very same sentiment many times?

 

[Antiwhippy]

I mean, feel free to to disagree about someone's opinion about a game, just don't call someone obnoxious for having said opinion.

 

[infinityBCRT]

I don't get everyone saying theres only one or no real boss fights

Full game spoilers below:

Spoiler

- avoid Skulls mission in the first encounter
- Fight Skulls in the Honey Bees mission
- Fight Quiet on the way to Emmerich
- run away from Sahelanthropus in the Emmerich Mission
- Fight/Run away from Skulls in Airport Truck Mission
- Fight/Run away from the Man on Fire in the Devil's House mission
- Fight Eli in the boat thingy
- Fight Sniper Skulls in Code Talker extraction mission
- Fight Skulls in Helicopter crash mission
- Fight Sahelanthropus in Mission 31
- Fight Eli on Mother Base
- Fight the onslaught of tanks and such in Mission 45

Maybe the bosses don't have the same personality that they did in MGS1-3, but that's a different argument.

 

[hamchan]

Do I really have to wheel out the ol' "it's not the length of a game that matters" argument, in the era of Journey and Gone Home? With Giant Bomb stating the very same sentiment many times?

You can do it, and then I will just say the content was pretty good and fun to go through too, then shrug at you.

 

[tuxfool]

Fuck off with this. As Jeff said on the spoilercast, you have to look at the game outside of all the "cut content." Guess what, stuff gets cut from games all the time and this is probably the only one that people have seriously taken and run with because they're so desperate..

My issue is that they just left the holes in place. It is like no effort was made to massage the content that they had into some cogent continuity.

 

[Jintor]

I don't get everyone saying theres only one or no real boss fights

Full game spoilers below:

Spoiler

- avoid Skulls mission in the first encounter
- Fight Skulls in the Honey Bees mission
- Fight Quiet on the way to Emmerich
- run away from Sahelanthropus in the Emmerich Mission
- Fight/Run away from Skulls in Airport Truck Mission
- Fight/Run away from the Man on Fire in the Devil's House mission
- Fight Eli in the boat thingy
- Fight Sniper Skulls in Code Talker extraction mission
- Fight Skulls in Helicopter crash mission
- Fight Sahelanthropus in Mission 31
- Fight Eli on Mother Base
- Fight the onslaught of tanks and such in Mission 45

Maybe the bosses don't have the same personality that they did in MGS1-3, but that's a different argument.

They're non-traditional. In those terms, the only thing I'd count would be

Spoiler

Quiet, Man on Fire, Eli, Sahalanthropus, Eli again

. Maybe

Spoiler

Snipe Skulls kind of, but they're kind of like elite mook level to me

 

[LurkerPrime]

You can do it, and then I will just say the content was pretty good and fun to go through too, then shrug at you.

Dammit. The 'F' word!

Spoiler

Aggghhhhhhh!!!

I'm gonna call this one a draw, but if you call it a win I'll be OK with that, too.

 

[tuxfool]

Stuff gets cut, but games don't usually feel like they were cobbled together at the last minute, like they were assembled from scattered pieces that don't quite fit together.
I've never played a game or seen a work of creative art (whose creators survived the creation process) that felt so much like it was pushed out the door while they were still figuring out how to make it work.

I have. It is called Destiny.

 

[Chance Hale]

I don't get everyone saying theres only one or no real boss fights

Full game spoilers below:

Spoiler

- avoid Skulls mission in the first encounter
- Fight Skulls in the Honey Bees mission
- Fight Quiet on the way to Emmerich
- run away from Sahelanthropus in the Emmerich Mission
- Fight/Run away from Skulls in Airport Truck Mission
- Fight/Run away from the Man on Fire in the Devil's House mission
- Fight Eli in the boat thingy
- Fight Sniper Skulls in Code Talker extraction mission
- Fight Skulls in Helicopter crash mission
- Fight Sahelanthropus in Mission 31
- Fight Eli on Mother Base
- Fight the onslaught of tanks and such in Mission 45

Maybe the bosses don't have the same personality that they did in MGS1-3, but that's a different argument.

Spoiler

Skulls are just bullet sponges and none of the mechanics in the game make the two sniper battles interesting. Tanks are just futoned away. Eli just runs around while you tranq him. Every Man on Fire encounter literally involves you running away or splashing him with water and then running away.

Sahelanthdsadasdasdasdasd is the only real boss fight in the game with actual patterns and even than it's a Peace Walker boss rather than anything up to snuff with the other games in the series.

Like, people remember bosses had multiple ways to defeat them in the older games right? And actual patterns?

Don't get me wrong, I really think MGS V is grand game overall but it has so many issues that I can't believe are getting called out by the press at large. Which is a terrible shame if only because the flaws would be interesting to actually, I don't know, investigate instead of just saying people are sad the series is ending.

 

[hamchan]

Dammit. The 'F' word!

Spoiler

Aggghhhhhhh!!!

I'm gonna call this one a draw, but if you call it a win I'll be OK with that, too.

Thing is I don't even care that much if people dislike the game. Anyone can feel free to do so, it's just opinions. Same way I think Destiny and Shadow of Mordor aren't great games either, but people on the Giant Bomb staff obviously think differently.

What I do care about is people calling Dan "obnoxious" just because he likes a game a lot. That's pretty fucked up.

 

[Jintor]

he hasn't even really been that annoying in this vid so far, it's just his standard dan "i'm not being hyperbolic but [is hyperbolic]" thing

I really appreciate the new pixel dimensions for the screen with the reaction images not covering the actual game anymore.

 

[infinityBCRT]

They're non-traditional. In those terms, the only thing I'd count would be

Spoiler

Quiet, Man on Fire, Eli, Sahalanthropus, Eli again

. Maybe

Spoiler

Snipe Skulls kind of, but they're kind of like elite mook level to me

But clearly, those were the intended moments of the game. The only difference between this game and previous games is that they don't put the health bars explicitly on the screen except for one of those fights. I think that's messing with some people's perception of the boss fights in this game.

 

[tryagainlater]

The singing robots from Peace Walker had more personality than anything in MGSV. I wonder if that will bother Drew since he said on the podcast that bosses having unique personalities was why he liked Metal Gear.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

I think i said this before but at some point MGSV could've ended with kojima just shitting on the screen for the last 20 hours and i'd still give it GOTY over everything.

Even when i want to punch it in the face, like when (chapter 2)

Spoiler

i just found out i couldn't unlock episode 46 because i hadn't listened to the yellow tapes yet

shit like that seems so arbitrary yet i ended up playing some of those redone missions to try to unlock it and still, even when the game is being a total craphead about its progression i was having a good time.

 

[stump sock]

TTK's quests and raids are essentially side missions. optional stuff outside of the campaign. think of the raids as the subsistence missions

the subsistence missions are hilariously easy in this one. and there's not enough of them.

the one where you have to take out the radar dish, there's a grenade on the table next to the comms panel. come in from the back, over the mountain and you're gone before they know what happened.

the hardest part is not getting killed by the wild dogs

 

[54-46!]

Good for Dan that he loved the game so much. But to be calling MGSV one of the very greatest games of all time when:

1. The story is super dumb.
2. It's the most blatantly unfinished AAA game in recent memory.
3. There are two women with on screen speaking parts in the game. Neither wears any clothes.
4. There are 2.5 compelling characters in the game, one of whom is a dog.
5. The villain is dreadful in every respect: design, voice acting, story motivations, etc.
6. The protagonist never speaks, leaving him mute in the silliest, least compelling ways. There's a drawn out story moment near the end of chapter 1 that is among the most awkward in recent memory because Keifer just won't open his mouth.
7. It somehow makes Ocelot boring.

I feel like 2-4 and 6-7 are very difficult to disagree with. And I adored the mechanics and I'll have no complaints if it's game of the year. But, man, what if this game was actually finished? What would Dan's praise be like then?

2. Fucking nope. Have you played Battlefield 4, Assassins Creed Unity or Arkham Knight? MGS V actually works.

 

[stump sock]

I've said it before, but a game that polished can in no way be considered "unfinished."

just because you think the story sucks/doesn't conclude well doesn't mean they didn't finish the game.

 

[Kelas]

The

Spoiler

sniper skulls

stand out as one of the best boss encounters of the game for me. It could have been a lot better, maybe if it was

Spoiler

less linear, utilised a larger portion of that area, and took more ideas from the end battle from 3

, but I really liked sneaking through that environment.

 

[Renpatsu]

MGSV for BEST EARLY ACCESS EXPERIENCE 2015

 

[Liamc723]

I've said it before, but a game that polished can in no way be considered "unfinished."

just because you think the story sucks/doesn't conclude well doesn't mean they didn't finish the game.

Are you serious? The developers literally tell us on the collectors edition that mission 51 was meant to be in the game. You are factually wrong. It is unfinished.

 

[Santar]

I enjoyed the first episode of MGScanlon V.
Interesting to hear Drew speculate so much about the main characters identity.
At the time I thought Big Boss changed his face in the beginning but still saw himself as his old self either for our enjoyment or because of the shrapnel.

To me MGS V didn't seem incomplete.
The reveal at the end gave the game the omph it needed for an ending to me.
If someone didn't know anything about the problems at Konami or that cut mission I don't think they'd scream out and call the game incomplete.
Spoilers for the cut content

Spoiler

Personally I didn't care about the Eli escaping and not being seen again part. His entire character acme off as waaay to fanservicey and he was an annoying whiney asshole the entire time. The story also just drifted away from that part as it went along so it didn't make it that jarring when that thread wasn't taken up again.

I'm not saying the story was great all the time, but it was engaging and kept you interested to find out more throughout. And the gameplay, the most important part of a game for me, was just superb.
The dynamic world and all the different ways you can approach any situation kept it from getting repetitive.

As others have said content gets cut from games all the time, the difference here is we know about some of it and that there were problems during development. Usually we don't know these things and just accept that the game we got is complete.

 

[Zombie James]

"He could have been talking to different people."
"Yes, that's possible."

What? The doctor was looking right at you and talking directly to you the entire time.

 

[2 Slice Toaster]

Any game with cut content makes it unfinished?

 

[Patryn]

Giant Bomb #17 | All the Beard Hair is Real Pubey

Metal Gear Solid #17 | With occasional discussion of Giant Bomb

 

[stump sock]

The

Spoiler

sniper skulls

stand out as one of the best boss encounters of the game for me. It could have been a lot better, maybe if it was

Spoiler

less linear, utilised a larger portion of that area, and took more ideas from the end battle from 3

, but I really liked sneaking through that environment.

haha, I accidentally found a route on my first try in which they never even sort of see you, I guess I trivialized some peoples' favorite part of the game

Any game with cut content makes it unfinished?

because, boy do I have news for you...

 

[tuxfool]

Any game with cut content makes it unfinished?

That isn't at all what people (including myself) are saying.

 

[TheMrPliskin]

That isn't at all what people (including myself) are saying.

There's post above literally saying the game is unfinished because of cut content

 

[stump sock]

haha, I accidentally found a route on my first try in which they never even sort of see you, I guess I trivialized some peoples' favorite part of the game

found a video, this guy takes the same route. you basically walk completely around that entire encounter. I love that that option even exists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tESThCX6-I

 

[tuxfool]

There's post above literally saying the game is unfinished because of cut content

Ah yes. I kinda tuned it out, when Destiny had the distinction of being different. It is very much a similar result. A disjointed story poorly assembled from scraps. The causes are probably different and one is much worse than the other.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

So i need to know: Is Episode 46 the last true mission in MGSV? Or is there like a true ending of some sort after that?

I kinda want to wrap it up but not because i'm not enjoying it so much as I want to see what the hell people are up in arms about.

 

[tuxfool]

So i need to know: Is Episode 46 the last true mission in MGSV? Or is there like a true ending of some sort after that?

I kinda want to wrap it up but not because i'm enjoying it so much as I want to see what the hell people are up in arms about.

Yes (if you have already done 45). But then you have some lengthy tapes to listen to afterwards.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Yes (if you have already done 45). But then you have some lengthy tapes to listen to afterwards.

alright so there isn't a Peace Walker-like grind to the final ending then? I only ask because im getting mixed signals regarding the final final ending.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Anybody else going to play SOMA? Amnesia is the only horror game I've ever played that I would describe as "scary," so I can't wait to finally play another Frictional Games joint.

 

[Myggen]

Metal Gear Solid #17 | With occasional discussion of Giant Bomb

Seriously.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Anybody else going to play SOMA? Amnesia is the only horror game I've ever played that I would describe as "scary," so I can't wait to finally play another Frictional Games joint.

I like to, but my month budget for games was eaten by MGSV.

Seriously.

This happens with every major game release and you know it. It's just extra fueled by the content on GB being very MGSV focused.

 

[Patryn]

This happens with every major game release and you know it. It's just extra fueled by the content on GB being very MGSV focused.

I think the problem is that because of Metal Gear Scanlon, this thread has been probably at least 40 percent talk about Metal Gear for over a year now. And lately that percentage is higher than ever.

 

[TheMrPliskin]

Anybody else going to play SOMA? Amnesia is the only horror game I've ever played that I would describe as "scary," so I can't wait to finally play another Frictional Games joint.

Yep for sure, looks really interesting and I'm looking forward to playing it

I think the problem is that because of Metal Gear Scanlon, this thread has been probably at least 40 percent talk about Metal Gear for over a year now.

I hope you're ready for another year of it.