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Giant Bomb #16 | DO... DONK...
- Thread starter Myggen
- Start date
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TheMrPliskin
Member
I shouldn't have looked as I've now lessened the hilarity of it.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Meh, I saw the tweets and they were pretty whiny of her. And it's also fucked up she's spoiling her followers.
But Kojima said when we found out the reason we would feel ashamed.
Good thing I no longer follow her then. I also expect it to be super dumb and might be worth discussing, but maybe after the game is out and people actually played it? Seems kinda shitty to just spout it out on Twitter.
For'real. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I felt ashamed that I had to see Cara's unfunny tweets.
Is it really spoilery to say that Kojima is mildly sexist and can't write female characters for shit?
HappenstanceUK
Member
Glad I stopped following Cara a while ago. Trying to stay as spoiler free as possible.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Can't write female characters
Has probably written better female characters than any other game developer
The Boss
Meryl
Sniper Wolf
Eva/Big Mama.(Bond trope, she's a spy. That's why she's sexy.)
Yeah, he can write pretty damn awesome female characters. Sexist? Different culture. Looking at another countries culture and how things are treated there through a western lense is ignorant in itself. So I'd have to say I disagree with your assertion.
I take it you don't believe in cultural relativism?
When it comes to writing female characters Kojima doesn't come anywhere close to Ragnar Tørnquist.
Pourquoi?
Except for The Boss none of these are particularly great characters, and no he is totally sexist.
Female characters in video games are quite terrible in general in video games and Kojima is certainly not exempt from that.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Never heard of him
Meryl is pretty damn great because she's a strong character who depends on herself. Eva/Big Mama goes from being a spy to growing in a boss/motherly role and being strong. Sniper Wolf don't give no shit about no advances from a nerd, and only cares about her wolves.
I'd say they're pretty great characters.
And sexist...yeah he likes the pretty ladies, but most females you meet in the game are strong and subvert tropes. Hell, the fact that one of MGS' main enemies are fully-suited Female soldiers called 'FROGS' is pretty damn progressive.(Which the notion of 'female enemies' was criticized because there was a lack of it before), in a way MGS4 was progressive with a strong group of mercenary females
Never heard of him
Writer of Dreamfall.
Never heard of him
He wrote The Longest Journey and Dreamfall games which have some pretty big problems with puzzle/combat but contain the best written female characters especially Zoe Castillo.
Never heard of him
Dreamfall/Longest Journey series. Absolutely fantastic and my favourite games of all time, but the focus is relatively narrow, so I don't think it's a fair comparison regardless of where you stand in the debate.
Agreed, except Sniper Wolf was kind of alright even if she was only alright through that dumb drawn out death scene. When he kills them off before he has a chance to be super fucking gross he can almost write a decent female character.
Mister Negative
Member
it was worth the graphics card update, I can tell you that much
How pretty much all of these interactions with women also involve violence is weird as well.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yeah just like how pretty much all of the interactions with men involve violence too
Except Otacon, he's a pansy.
Oh yeah Mei Ling! Commander in the Navy.
One of the very few devs we Norwegians can be proud of.
But we are told it is because she had sex with a superior just like Meryl only got her position because of her father.
stump sock
Member
Except Paz, who is supposed to be a teenager but he spends the entire game sexualizing. Then he does the weak-ass twist that "Wait! She's actually an adult so it's ok to want to fuck her!"
That's abysmal writing. I love MGS, I love Kojima's work, but he's a fucking hack in so many respects. Especially in dealing with women.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Rumor on Mei Lings part! And Meryl hates her dad because of it, and she constantly goes against his wishes.
ratcliffja
Member
I think he genuinely wants to create strong female characters, but he's so caught up in their sexual side that he loses focus.
funkystudent
Member
Until Dawn looks fun.
A much better style of story for that format then the Metal Gear levels of stupid Quantic Dream can get up to.
If it wasnt released right next to MGSV I might have got it. Maybe during the holiday sales.
A much better style of story for that format then the Metal Gear levels of stupid Quantic Dream can get up to.
If it wasnt released right next to MGSV I might have got it. Maybe during the holiday sales.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I was surprised to hear that the story in Until Dawn is completely dynamic, including who the killer is and other stuff that goes in it
It definitely looks great
It definitely looks great
stump sock
Member
that's cool. I had Heavy Rain spoiled by some asshat, and it actually managed to ruin the game because knowing in advance who the killer was just made it all the more obvious how stupid the game was
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Never heard of him
Meryl is pretty damn great because she's a strong character who depends on herself. Eva/Big Mama goes from being a spy to growing in a boss/motherly role and being strong. Sniper Wolf don't give no shit about no advances from a nerd, and only cares about her wolves.
I'd say they're pretty great characters.
And sexist...yeah he likes the pretty ladies, but most females you meet in the game are strong and subvert tropes. Hell, the fact that one of MGS' main enemies are fully-suited Female soldiers called 'FROGS' is pretty damn progressive.(Which the notion of 'female enemies' was criticized because there was a lack of it before), in a way MGS4 was progressive with a strong group of mercenary females
I went through this before during the MGS4 Scanlon playthrough.
Not a single woman in MGS4 is done well. they are all either objectified or reliant on men to be successful. the three strongest women are, what, Meryl, Mei Ling, and Eva?
Meryl has daddy issues and falls in love with shitboy because she can't just be a tough woman, Mei Ling rose to prominence in the armed forces because someone high up really took a perverted liking to her and of course Kojima makes her ass hang in the air for like a minute for no reason, and Big Mama's unending love for a guy she once had sex with in the 60's was so stupidly strong that she was willing to give birth to his clones and throw her body on a rando flaming clone because she had to keep kafaybay or whatever marks call it.
and that's not getting into the constant boob and ass shots in MGS4. Nor does it answer the whole bra mystery regarding Naomi or just about all the mysteries regarding Naomi's bipolar nature in the game. but that's just another nickpick
Probably the only decently written female character he's done in MGS was Sniper Wolf because she didn't give a shit about any dudes except for Big Boss which i suppose is fine since everyone has a hard-on for BB in the MGS universe. She wasn't objectified and was decently developed in MGS1.
but cmon now, dude just fucking sucks at writing women.
So, in a post MGS4-constant raping of paz and vagina bomb world, well, i'm not going to be shocked when the Quiet wears whatever the fuck she wears because it reminds her to always be a sexy woman no matter the circumstances and that she only speaks in the game to declare her endless devotion to Punished Snake. because that's all kojima knows what to write when it comes to women in MGS anymore
I've only jumped on board the MGS train in the last year, but I'm surprised this isn't the accepted consensus and it's still debated. MGS is outstanding trashy fun - trying to hold up his representations in any positive or considered light seems like a non-starter.
TheMrPliskin
Member
I think every character you've named has been involved in a dumb pervy scene at least once. The Boss is great but a lot of Kojimas other female characters feel like walking excuses for Kojima to get his creep on.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I think Meryl is done great in MGS4, *shrug*. Sure the love story with Johnny is contrived, but it's still her taking control by making him marry her, and making her dad walk her down the aisle. And the game has always had butt shots. And crotch shots. And half-naked Raidens, half-naked Snakes, a sexualized male character in Vamp who is very suggestive in his fights, a cyborg ninja that wears heels.
He does more for equalizing the sexuality presented by men and females in the series than many other developers who just sexualize women.
He does more for equalizing the sexuality presented by men and females in the series than many other developers who just sexualize women.
NumberThree
Member
Meryl actually looking like a soldier in her wedding dress was pretty cool.
The only interaction I ever had with her on twitter was a screenshot of GB when an article about the new hire happened to show up right next to a picture of her (from a different story in the sidebar) so I did a "Follow the money" joke lol.
And to add to that, pre-MGS4 she was a damsel in distress.
holyyyyyyyyyy shit that is good
I additionally like that the image is the reverse of usual DMX x Goomba.
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