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Giant Bomb #17 | Baby Dan Wyckert

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D

danm999

Member
Black Flag was a squandered opportunity.

It gave Ubisoft the chance to realign the meta-narrative of the entire series after the Desmond shit. The working-for-Ubisoft stuff was a fine palette cleanser after the super serious arc of 1-3, but only if you filled the void 3 created with something.

Seriously, every major character from AC1 was dead at that point. You needed fucking something to give me a reason to care about why I was in the Animus.

They really should have introduced a new protagonist in Unity to refocus the series. Instead we got, shit I'm not even sure what the out of Animus story of Unity was.
 
J

Jeevesmeister

Banned
danm999 said:
Black Flag was a squandered opportunity.

It gave Ubisoft the chance to realign the meta-narrative of the entire series after the Desmond shit. The working-for-Ubisoft stuff was a fine palette cleanser after the super serious arc of 1-3, but only if you filled the void 3 created with something.

Seriously, every major character from AC1 was dead at that point. You needed fucking something to give me a reason to care about why I was in the Animus.

They really should have introduced a new protagonist in Unity to refocus the series. Instead we got, shit I'm not even sure what the out of Animus story of Unity was.
Click to expand...

I have to give them credit, I at least liked the idea of Desmond just being straight up dismembered and dumped into bags.

But yeah, I felt like I was super waiting for them to ditch all the historical stuff and have that huge open future cyberpunk parkour assassination game to close the loop, even if Desmond wasn't the best character, it was enough of a hook to keep me invested until I realized they didn't care about anything except that obnoxious ass ancient aliens bullshit.
 
N

Noray

Unconfirmed Member
Jeevesmeister said:
I have to give them credit, I at least liked the idea of Desmond just being straight up dismembered and dumped into bags.

But yeah, I felt like I was super waiting for them to ditch all the historical stuff and have that huge open future cyberpunk parkour assassination game to close the loop, even if Desmond wasn't the best character, it was enough of a hook to keep me invested until I realized they didn't care about anything except that obnoxious ass ancient aliens bullshit.
Click to expand...

I feel the exact opposite, I don't mind the future stuff but I'm there for the historical settings! That's something that's just so rare in games, especially big AAA games. Look to Watch Dogs to see what a modern AC would be, essentially.

It's just weird to me that some people want modern-day AC games when the whole hook of that series has always been the historical settings. I don't give a hoot if they drop the frame narratives entirely and just focus on the historical settings with some underlying Assassins vs Templar story binding all the games together loosely. That said I thought the framing device for Black Flag was really interesting and not too overbearing, even though I wish they'd just drop the Minerva/Juno/precursor race stuff entirely. That's always been the weakest part of the story. It worked great as a mindfuck AC2 ending, but that was about all there was to them.
 
G

Gnome

Member
I actually have no interest in futuristic Assassins Creed. At one point aren't you just kind of playing Splinter Cell? I think the whole idea of the Animus should just be dumped entirely in favor of making the games simply historical fiction stories.
 
D

danm999

Member
The ancient aliens stuff was so strange and off putting in that its now the central conflict of the series.

It would have been better left as an excuse for magic to exist in that world and occasionally cause wacky stuff to happen. Like why Ezio has a pistol in the 1400s.

But now its the be all and end all of the series, even in the present day story-line. It made Assassin's Creed like every other semi sci fi franchise with prophecies and precursor aliens and artifacts and that.

I get enough of that from Mass Effect/Halo/Metroid/Starcraft/Borderlands
 
T

tryagainlater

Member
The historical settings is the only interesting thing AC has. I'm glad the series has done so many unique time periods and cities that we haven't seen in a lot of games. There's enough games set in modern day. Then again, I haven't had much interest in the series in a couple years so it doesn't really matter.
 
G

Gnome

Member
Is Dan Brown still involved in the series? Was he ever, maybe I'm misremembering something, but if I'm not, all the ancient alien bullshit I'm blaming on him.
 
J

Jeevesmeister

Banned
tryagainlater said:
The historical settings is the only interesting thing AC has. I'm glad the series has done so many unique time periods and cities that we haven't seen in a lot of games. There's enough games set in modern day. Then again, I haven't had much interest in the series in a couple years so it doesn't really matter.
Click to expand...

No, no, the whole point was, nearly a fuckin' decade ago, before it all went completely off the damn rails, there was Assassin's Creed 1 which set up and framed this whole narrative within a tight context that was building to this inevitably. Ancient societies surviving to the modern day, the Knights Templar wanted to recover some ancient artifact, genetic memories, blah blah blah - and the Assassins had to stop them.

Then Assassin's Creed 2 came out, and the entire plot of that was literally the Assassins wanted Desmond to run around as Ezio so he would become a master Assassin stabber person through bleeding effect and take on the Templars head on.

The problem is that all the "unique settings" you interact with in the exact same dry manner of auto-parkour that is just exhausting at this point. Like who fucking cares anymore? It needed to get the modern day cyberpunk Assassin shit out of its system and put a nip in the bud by 3, and that was the worst one until Unity came out because they kept dragging this shit out.

Antiwhippy said:
Wait, what.
Click to expand...

What, you don't believe me?
 
C

Chance Hale

Member
I did actually think it was kind of amusing that the (spoilers for the end of AC3)
main character of the franchise got unceremoniously killed off and then torn apart via autopsy.
Cold shit.

I liked 3 more than most but it's definitely the one that showed they had no idea what the fuck to do with the main plot of the game.
 
S

stump sock

Member
the real AC3 should have been Desmond in present day, but that was logistically complicated and would also have screwed up ubisoft's ability to just put out the same game every year until the oceans swallow the earth
 
T

tryagainlater

Member
Jeevesmeister said:
No, no, the whole point was, nearly a fuckin' decade ago, before it all went completely off the damn rails, there was Assassin's Creed 1 which set up and framed this whole narrative within a tight context that was building to this inevitably. Ancient societies surviving to the modern day, the Knights Templar wanted to recover some ancient artifact, genetic memories, blah blah blah - and the Assassins had to stop them.

Then Assassin's Creed 2 came out, and the entire plot of that was literally the Assassins wanted Desmond to run around as Ezio so he would become a master Assassin stabber person through bleeding effect and take on the Templars head on.

The problem is that all the "unique settings" you interact with in the exact same dry manner of auto-parkour that is just exhausting at this point. Like who fucking cares anymore? It needed to get the modern day cyberpunk Assassin shit out of its system and put a nip in the bud by 3, and that was the worst one until Unity came out because they kept dragging this shit out.
Click to expand...

I certainly agree with the who fucking cares anymore. But even when I was into the series, I didn't want a boring modern day or sci-fi setting regardless of it heading there the whole time. But yea, the series is dry so the historical settings I like so much are not a draw anymore but it's still the best thing the series has going for it relatively speaking.

ricochetguro said:
I did actually think it was kind of amusing that the (spoilers for the end of AC3)
main character of the franchise got unceremoniously killed off and then torn apart via autopsy.
Cold shit.

I liked 3 more than most but it's definitely the one that showed they had no idea what the fuck to do with the main plot of the game.
Click to expand...
I think they showed that a long time before 3 :p
 
C

Chance Hale

Member
The historical settings are still as big a draw for me as they ever were, especially given no other series replicates such cities on a similar scale. If anything they've only gotten more realistic and better looking so I always look forward to that even if the franchise is no longer as ambitious as it once was.
 
D

daydream

Banned
stump sock said:
the real AC3 should have been Desmond in present day, but that was logistically complicated and would also have screwed up ubisoft's ability to just put out the same game every year until the oceans swallow the earth
Click to expand...

ubisoft presents 'life is quaint'

starring desmond taking cooking classes and getting real good with that knife

it's time for him to become an everyday hero

"this is a tasty plasma. maybe i could sneak in and watch 'rabbids'.i don't care what anybody says, that's one of the best animated films ever made."
 
X

Xater

Member
danm999 said:
The ancient aliens stuff was so strange and off putting in that its now the central conflict of the series.

It would have been better left as an excuse for magic to exist in that world and occasionally cause wacky stuff to happen. Like why Ezio has a pistol in the 1400s.

But now its the be all and end all of the series, even in the present day story-line. It made Assassin's Creed like every other semi sci fi franchise with prophecies and precursor aliens and artifacts and that.

I get enough of that from Mass Effect/Halo/Metroid/Starcraft/Borderlands
Click to expand...

It should have never introduced all that shit. It would have been better if it was just conspiracy stuff of humans that want to take control over the world for centuries.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Jeevesmeister said:
I have to give them credit, I at least liked the idea of Desmond just being straight up dismembered and dumped into bags.
Click to expand...
That was pretty savage, yeah.

Xater said:
It should have never introduced all that shit. It would have been better if it was just conspiracy stuff of humans that want to take control over the world for centuries.
Click to expand...
That said, I think my favourite moment across all of the Assassin's Creed games is the cutscene in which that hologram woman suddenly looks past Ezio, directly facing the screen and starts talking to you while Ezio is still in the room, being all

hell-are-you-talking-about.gif



That scene had me legit shook back then.


But you don't really need ancient aliens for that and I also hated the direction that overarching plot took in subsequent games. I suppose the mystery is almost always more fun than the eventual answer.
 
D

danm999

Member
Xater said:
It should have never introduced all that shit. It would have been better if it was just conspiracy stuff of humans that want to take control over the world for centuries.
Click to expand...

I dunno, I feel every sci fi series needs an x factor that excuses crazy shit. Whether it be ancient aliens, or nanomachines, or the Force, or whatever.
 
X

Xater

Member
Haunted said:
That was pretty savage, yeah.


That said, I think my favourite moment across all of the Assassin's Creed games is the cutscene in which that hologram woman suddenly looks past Ezio, directly facing the screen and starts talking to you while Ezio is still in the room, being all

hell-are-you-talking-about.gif



That scene had me legit shook back then.


But you don't really need ancient aliens for that and I also hated the direction that overarching plot took in subsequent games. I suppose the mystery is almost always more fun than the eventual answer.
Click to expand...

It was only fun for how dumb it was, but because they take their shit so super serious it all turned into awful nonsense. That's why I think just human conspiracy would have served the series better, but that actually requires writing talent and aliens and shit are an easy out.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Xater said:
It was only fun for how dumb it was, but because they take their shit so super serious it all turned into awful nonsense. That's why I think just human conspiracy would have served the series better, but that actually requires writing talent and aliens and shit are an easy out.
Click to expand...
I think that was a legitimately inspired moment of surprising the player by rewriting the rules of how the Animus worked in a great twist at a key moment towards the end of one of the best games in the series.

Too bad they never did anything with that setup or managed to reach those heights again.
 
R

repeater

Member
Thanks to the thread for reminding me what utter bullshit the Assassin's Creed series is. And it's not even anime for god's sake!
 
D

Death Metalist

Member
danm999 said:
Black Flag was a squandered opportunity.

It gave Ubisoft the chance to realign the meta-narrative of the entire series after the Desmond shit. The working-for-Ubisoft stuff was a fine palette cleanser after the super serious arc of 1-3, but only if you filled the void 3 created with something.

Seriously, every major character from AC1 was dead at that point. You needed fucking something to give me a reason to care about why I was in the Animus.

They really should have introduced a new protagonist in Unity to refocus the series. Instead we got, shit I'm not even sure what the out of Animus story of Unity was.
Click to expand...

Yup, I'm in the same boat. I loved AC because of my interest in how they are going to tie in Desmond with all the ancestor DNA shit, like it felt it was all going to lead into something to help overthrow futuristic Templars. Unfortunately, it all went to shit. The first two are my favorite because of how interesting both stories were, the past and the future with Desmond felt intertwined that made you care about the characters. For the record I just played 1, 2, 3 and never cared for the rest. I don't think I'll even get Syndicate unless it plays really good.
 
D

danm999

Member
Maybe they should just jump Assassin's Creed hundreds of years into the future and have crazy technology. I mean why not? Tethering themselves to present day clearly isn't doing anything for them. You could play 21st century stuff through the Animus or whatever they have in the future if they need to resolve those threads.

And regarding the basic combat of the series; if you jump into the future you can do a KOTOR 1 and make all sorts of in universe justifications as to why guns aren't the be all and end all (ie; personal shielding is so good its resistant to all but melee attacks).
 
G

Glitchesarecool

Member
danm999 said:
And regarding the basic combat of the series; if you jump into the future you can do a KOTOR 1 and make all sorts of in universe justifications as to why guns aren't the be all and end all (ie; personal shielding is so good its resistant to all but melee attacks).
Click to expand...

Cyborg-powered stabbing or energy blades would be fine to allow for guns, faster traversal, and face-shanking in the far future. Actually the introduction of real guns might make for a more interesting game.
 
D

danm999

Member
Glitchesarecool said:
Cyborg-powered stabbing or energy blades would be fine to allow for guns, faster traversal, and face-shanking in the far future. Actually the introduction of real guns might make for a more interesting game.
Click to expand...

I'm just assuming Ubisoft is run like turf wars in a gang controlled city and if the Assassin's Creed team goes too far into the shooter territory the Far Cry team fucks them up.
 
D

daydream

Banned
Xater said:
What it is now sounds more interesting to me, but there is the problem of bad gameplay and mission design.
Click to expand...

i dunno, it seems to me to be exactly the other way around - the nonsensical elements got turned up to eleven with 3 whereas before they more or less framed the historical setting which was the meat of the game

at least that's why i'm not interested in those games anymore (although i did think the self-reflexive moments of 4 were an interesting idea, at least)

that first game was pretty neat and (partly due to repetition, of course) very mechanical in a way
 
A

Archaix

Drunky McMurder
Assassin's Creed 1 was the only one with a compelling story, then 2 had you fistfight the pope and Bloodlines ended with that hilarious stupidity of the future past alien talking to you through your oculus headset in tron world, and then they dropped the ball. Black Flag's present day stuff was just bullshit and a waste of time. It wasn't fun, it wasn't a good story, it was just "Fuck it, you can't stab dudes for a while". Now the games are just boring, which is the absolute worst you can do.
 
X

Xater

Member
daydream said:
man, watch dogs

talk about a complete waste of millions (incl. the inevitable sequel)
Click to expand...

Problem of Ubisoft games these days. They come up with a great hook that then somehow actually has to be turned into gameplay which then disappoints.

daydream said:
i dunno, it seems to me to be exactly the other way around - the nonsensical elements got turned up to eleven with 3 whereas before they more or less framed the historical setting which was the meat of the game

at least that's why i'm not interested in those games anymore (although i did think the self-reflexive moments of 4 were an interesting idea, at least)

that first game was pretty neat and (partly due to repetition, of course) very mechanical in a way
Click to expand...

I'm not saying I agree with him, just that I think historical stuff sounds more interesting to me. We get all kinds of sci-fi and war story stuff, but historical scenarios are a rarity, which is why what the AC games turned into is such a shame.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
That's the problem with annualising massive games. Because the studios have to leap-frog each other's release there's no time for vitally important pre-production with a small team. No time to gauge the response to the previous game and the current temperature of your franchise.

I imagine Ubisoft had no idea Black Flag would be so well received and act as the palate cleanser the series needed. And when they did realise? Unity was in feature lock and Rogue was their B-game.
 
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