LiveFromKyoto
Member
Because one was universally praised all year while the other had a mediocre reception and had spent months undergoing an autopsy of its numerous faults, including more than one segment of these podcasts.
Giant Bomb GOTY 2014 - Destiny Has Brought Us Here
- Thread starter daydream
- Start date
Because one was universally praised all year while the other had a mediocre reception and had spent months undergoing an autopsy of its numerous faults, including more than one segment of these podcasts.
Haunted
Member
That seems perfectly natural to me.
call_kotaku
Member
Witcher 3 will have to be some sort of transcendent experience to get any traction, especially with Patrick gone
Jeff isn't particularly interested in these kinds of games, it'll probably be difficult in some obtuse way so Brad won't be keen on it, it has a serious story that isn't ridiculously anime so Dan won't really get it, Drew and Vinny probably won't finish it, Alex will probably argue for it and give up half way, and Jason probably won't push too hard for it either.
That's a false equivalency.
LurkerPrime
Member
Vinny's always been the most into Witcher stuff. It's one of those series where he read all the books and lore he could get his hands on. If anyone champions the game, it will be him.
Jeff expressed some concern over how it will be at release, however... Assuming some insider knowledge, that's worrying.
Fox Mulder
Member
Made me stop listening to the goty podcasts. I just can't handle the madness. I've just watched their recap stuff since and see the winners.
As someone who thinks Kojima is a consistently shit writer, I never batted an eye at the Ground Zeroes main mission ending. The fact that the GB crew got up in arms over it is pretty bewildering(although I didn't hear what exactly they had to say about it since I skipped that section out of fear for spoilerss for other games) to me.
That part of the game never came across as 2edgy or "gross" or Kojima punching above his weight. It came across as more or less consistent from the start of that very first intro which sets the tone pretty quickly.
It also helps that there weren't any 30 minute long, horribly written, stilted monologues in Ground Zeroes about the futility of war or battle to do a disservice to that moment. It's basically just presented without comment which is incredibly restrained for Kojima.
But its the best madness. That being said. Brad should be in politics with his filibuster skills. And Saints Row 3 should have won.
ThreePiMatt
Member
The madness is the whole point of the podcasts. Hell, I didn't play a single game in Giant Bomb's Top 10, I just care about the arguments that created them. It is every petty message board argument turned into a podcast. Frankly, I didn't think they argued enough. Spots 1 and 2 barely got a discussion.
I speel my dreenk
Member
That's the main reason I enjoy them so much - less to do with the destination, and more to experience the ridiculous, turbulent journey, as it were.
And for some counter-balance to the bulk of this thread: Jazzpunk is my game of the year and I couldn't care less about Nintendo's first party stuff, so many of you guys seem crazy to me. Alex is out there doing God's work. Amen.
Nah, Jeff is the better one. He always gets what he wants and looks good while doing it.
The Metal Face
Member
I'm so glad Alex was there this year to actually pose an argument to Brad's foolishness. Last year was the worst with nobody willing to argue with Brad about putting DOTA not only on the top 10 list but as number 5 no less.
I see a lot of people on here talking about how impassioned everyone used to be on these things. I think I started listening in early 2013 so I haven't heard the others. I'm going to go back and listen to 2011's GoTY because I'm really interested in hearing that Skyrim vs Saint's Row debate since The Third is one of my favorite games ever I want to hear everyone's thoughts on it at the time.
I see a lot of people on here talking about how impassioned everyone used to be on these things. I think I started listening in early 2013 so I haven't heard the others. I'm going to go back and listen to 2011's GoTY because I'm really interested in hearing that Skyrim vs Saint's Row debate since The Third is one of my favorite games ever I want to hear everyone's thoughts on it at the time.
Witcher 3 is one of my most anticipated games, but I'm also super skeptical they can pull it off. I really liked how dense and crafted TW2 was, and I wasn't exactly looking for them sacrifice that for scale.
The day one video has started off great. I love how Alex is the 'forgotten' one. I don't quite agree with the assertion that MK8 is a HD MkWii. MK8 was certainly a complete change in artstyle when it was revealed when compared to a HD upscaled MKwii on Dolphin or equivalent. It was one of the highlights at Nintendo's E3 2013. I also think Alex was a tad harsh on the frame-rate argument for more than two players, but it is a slight pain when playing at 30 relative to the normal 60. I'm quite surprised Guilty Gear won that.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
People keep saying that it's bad writing
But they can't explain why, how did he 'fuck up'?
ShockingAlberto
Member
Wait, why do you think people can't explain why? People explain their reasons all the time. Are you sure you're just not deliberately ignoring what they're saying? It's one thing to disagree, but to say no one's given their reasoning why it feels totally unearned or how it reduces a character to a prop for motivation and shock value is straight up wrong.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
This is a pretty great non-answer.
If Paz was reduced to a prop, then BB wouldn't even bother with saving her life. Even as she was about to jump he tried to reach for her before being pulled back. Sure, Kaz was pissed off at her, but if you have no knowledge of what happened in Peace Walker, sure it's just 'you damn bitch' like Kaz said. Of course alot of people don't like how she seems like just a set piece, and these are the very same people who never played through Peace Walker or know exactly who she is. Hell, GZ provides access to a bunch of tapes where you can LEARN who she is. Kojima had foresight to include those because he probably realized there would be people misinterpreting her role as nothing more than a set piece.
It's not his fault you or anyone else decided to read the last chapter of a book and then say 'Wow what a bunch of drivel.'
And shock value...what, that can't ever be used as a writing technique ever again? So no movie or game can ever use shock value again? Will your criticism boil down to 'Ew it's gross'?
Well you got one of those two wishes.
Thanks.
Technosteve
Banned
Witcher 2 at launch ON PC did not have a tutorial, and was really poorly tuned, as the combat was extremely difficult, to the point of making me quit the game and rethink how I was playing because i was failing a QTE event due to the combat surrounding it. There are no in combat healing potions in this game.
Witcher 2's combat is it's weakest cog in a fine adult rpg, they need to study how the japanese designed the Souls series to have extremely difficult but fair combat mechanics.
I thought Ground Zeroes was fine and couldn't understand what Patrick and others were upset about at first. But thinking on it, I realized it was probably due to me playing Peace Walker this year. It made GZ make a lot more sense and meant that Chico and Paz were already well established characters for me.
Having GZ lean on Peace Walker was probably a mistake on Kojima's part. Hopefully Phantom Pain stands on its own and makes more sense for people. I can see playing GZ without any knowledge of what happened in Peace Walker and being a bit turned off / confused.
Having GZ lean on Peace Walker was probably a mistake on Kojima's part. Hopefully Phantom Pain stands on its own and makes more sense for people. I can see playing GZ without any knowledge of what happened in Peace Walker and being a bit turned off / confused.
Except that as they re-iterated at least 6 times during the podcast, their list is about representing what their staff loved both individually and collectively, and is not meant to reflect the entire games press or industry.
Drew has Destiny in his 2014 Top 10 (#8), so Brad wasn't the only person who liked it. For comparison, only Dan and Alex put MK8 in their Top 10 (at slots 4 and 8 respectively). Literally nobody besides Jeff put Call of Duty in their Top 10, so it's useless to pretend that that game didn't get railroaded onto the list.
What arguments did Dan really make? I'd have to go back and listen, but it seemed to me that he just falls back on "It's really fun, it's the most fun I've had all year and THIS IS THE HILL I AM GOING TO DIE ON." At which point most people just backed off.
I understand listeners' "There should be a consensus" argument but I still don't really like it because it just pushes mushy compromises and boring agreeable stuff to the top. That said, someone already did a weighted Giant Bomb GOTY list and it still showed that Destiny would have wound up in the Top 10.....ahead of Mario Kart no less.
Drew also said he didn't like that much when they were discussing it. Jason said he basically hated it and right after Drew said something along the lines of "I tried to get into it but it never clicked with me". I should also point out that Drew didn't even finish most of the games on his list so take that list for whatever its worth. The list could very well be 10 games not named metal gear that Drew played and didn't hate.
Listened to the Day 5 podcast while (finally) trying Desert Golfing. Kind of crazy that Brad got Destiny on the list when everyone else actively dislikes it. I almost got the impression they let him have it out of pity. Some of his arguments in Destiny's favor were pretty weak, to someone who's never played Destiny. Co-op loot games aren't exactly a revelation at this point, and the way he talked about Diablo made me question whether he's ever actually played Diablo (no named unique drops? what?).
dragonfart28
Banned
I'm so glad Mario Kart made it in there.
The sequelitis argument was such bullshit.
The sequelitis argument was such bullshit.
Yup. I've yet to hear Dan make an intelligent, interesting or informed argument about anything. His contribution always boils down to "it's fun and awesome" or "it's for nerds and I'm a cool guy." It's like having a middle school child on the podcast.
dragonfart28
Banned
Yea, Dan really should have pointed out the gameplay advantages this one had over its predecessors. It's in a league of its own.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Seeing that Jeff's and Brad's argument is "a kart racer in 2014?" I'd say that he is in good company.
Yeah, their "argument" against MK8 was embarrassing, and I say that as someone who hasn't even played it.
Basileus777
Member
I remember when GB had Banjo Kazooie N&B high in their GOTY list and some great debates about it. It's the sort of thing that would never happen anymore.
If you're going to disregard Drew's picks because he didn't finish games or play enough games, then his advocacy of Mario Kart 8 doesn't count either. Which would mean that Dan is the only one that legitimately wanted the MK8 to make the Top 10.
ScottSullivan
Member
what about mordor is clunky? It seems to be winning so many rewards specofocally because it is so polished
Not discounting it, just saying that he hasn't finished a lot of games so take the list for whatever its worth. It was the same thing last year where he didn't finish a lot of games that ended up in his top 10. Also Alex wanted MK on the list as well. I believe Alex had in 6th on his personal list so Dan wouldn't have been by himself.
Basileus777
Member
Mario Kart isn't really a game you "finish."
But Alex also expressed very early on his willingness to sacrifice MK8 for, well, whatever else really.
A lot of their arguments came down to falsities or people just plain being stubborn about things. Intelligent discussion seemed to come mainly from Patrick, occasionally from Alex, and we know those two barely have any power in these GotY casts.
Rodney McKay
Member
OK, haven't played this game quite yet but have kept up with the whole discussion around it, and I just wanted to comment about some of your statements. So before you comment about a "non-answer" again, I'm aware I'm not making an argument about Ground Zeroes (there's plenty of that out there from when the game came out), I'm just explaining how people MIGHT disagree with you and why that's OK.
As for your first point about her not being a prop because the main character wanted to save her life: Prop characters are used all the time as the "goal" of the hero. Their existence is the story is to give the main character his motivation, rather than them being their own character, they are reduced to an object. I can't say if I feel this way, but some people certainly did.
The second part I highlighted is a big assumption on your part. And even IF everyone who felt she was a prop hadn't played PW (a game that came out almost 5 years ago that lacks indication that it's part of the number sequel series) or played every (optional) audiolog, it is still absolutely a flaw for many people in a story if the writer didn't bother to humanize a character during the course of the main story of the sequel.
And you're comment on shock value: of course shocks can be used as a writing technique, what matters is the context of the "shock" and whether people think it's done well. "Ew, it's gross" is a comment on what people think of the maturity (or lack thereof) of this particular twist. Unfortunately I've had this "shock" spoiled for me, but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that there are people out there who consider
a bomb in a vagina
So yeah, people have opinions they've been explained, (I know since I've read them or listened to them in the past back when the game first released), and frankly they seem no less valid than any of the points or opinions you've shared.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
For the first part, Snakes motivation is to...
To rescue both Chico and Paz is because he's afraid they'll reveal secrets behind his MSF, and Paz because she can be used as a bargaining chip against Cipher. To Snake, she's simply a pawn to be used at this point in the story.
As for your second part, GZ is very well a demo/preview. If we treat it as being in its own vacuum, then all the characters are shallow, hollow representations that are all horribly written. But we aren't. It bridges Peace Walker with Phantom Pain. We have to treat them as 3 parts of a whole, since they all take place relatively close(With Phantom Pain doing the time leap into...9 years? into the future.)
As for opinions, I'm fine with other people thinking it's gross. it is a gross ending to a sad, confused character. But then they also pair it with 'bad writing', I ask why, and what do they say? They were a prop character because they're seeing the game as being in a vacuum? That's when I call them out for it. As for the V-Bomb, it's an interesting thing to do, but seeing that MGS5 as a whole has a peculiar fascination with anything 'V', it's an odd piece that fits into the larger puzzle of why 'V' is being treated as a symbol.
Tl;dr- It's fine if you think it's gross what happened to Paz, but when you try to use that as a criticism whilst calling it 'bad writing' and you can't explain why...then that's not criticism.
True, but he would've taken it over Destiny and did make some arguments supporting it. Think he said something along the lines of "its the most enjoyable Mario Kart I've played in years" or something like that.
The Witcher shouldnt be like Souls. Too slow and weighty. Geralt is suppose to attack like lightning.
Back when I played Witcher 2, Geralt was way slower than a typical Souls character. Attack like lightning is the opposite of how fast he was.
Should they mention it? Brad was the only one that brought up GTA for PS4/XB1 last year and he was shut down. OOT 3D was virtually a remaster with a different coat of paint and MM will probably be the same.
For me, I have bought and loved Donkey Kong Country TF, Mario Kart 8 and 3D World. However, the issue isn't that there's been too many of these games, like Jeff says for MK8, but that these awesome games are way too close to the game before them.
Mario Kart 7 was a huge step up from Mario Kart on the Wii, and had some cool gimmicks - underwater, gliding, coin collecting, vehicle choosing and tricks and stuff. Mario Kart 8 is a huge graphical upgrade, but the only real "new" gimmick is really the gravity stuff which is only on about half of the tracks out there, otherwise it's a suped up 7.
DKCTF, while great, is basically Returns with new levels and the addition of Dixie and Cranky. 3D World, while great, is a really nice expansion of Mario 3D Land on the 3DS. Multiplayer and a Cat Suit and more levels.
And they've been doing this double rehash thing for a while now. Kirby Triple Deluxe on 3DS uses a lot of what was made on Kirby Return to Dreamland on the Wii. Super Mario Bros U uses the same damn sounds and animations used in NSMBWii.
While I love all these games, the amount of "new" pouring out of them isn't much outside of looking real pretty. Compared to games like Yoshi's Wooly World and Kirby Rainbow Curse this year, which have similarities to Epic Yarn and Canvas Curse, they've appeared to start from scratch with them. At this point Splatoon is, like, the first game they've made that didn't start as a different game on a different system.
Mario Kart 7 was a huge step up from Mario Kart on the Wii, and had some cool gimmicks - underwater, gliding, coin collecting, vehicle choosing and tricks and stuff. Mario Kart 8 is a huge graphical upgrade, but the only real "new" gimmick is really the gravity stuff which is only on about half of the tracks out there, otherwise it's a suped up 7.
DKCTF, while great, is basically Returns with new levels and the addition of Dixie and Cranky. 3D World, while great, is a really nice expansion of Mario 3D Land on the 3DS. Multiplayer and a Cat Suit and more levels.
And they've been doing this double rehash thing for a while now. Kirby Triple Deluxe on 3DS uses a lot of what was made on Kirby Return to Dreamland on the Wii. Super Mario Bros U uses the same damn sounds and animations used in NSMBWii.
While I love all these games, the amount of "new" pouring out of them isn't much outside of looking real pretty. Compared to games like Yoshi's Wooly World and Kirby Rainbow Curse this year, which have similarities to Epic Yarn and Canvas Curse, they've appeared to start from scratch with them. At this point Splatoon is, like, the first game they've made that didn't start as a different game on a different system.
avengers23
Banned
Next time Brad pulls this filibuster act, Alex should go with the nuclear option: I'll sacrifice one of my sponsored games to keep his off.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
This is some fucked up logic. So in your eyes Majora's Mask, A Link Between Worlds, Super Mario Galaxy 2, pretty much all of Pokemon, etc. are just more of the same so why bother giving them attention despite their incredible design.