Support NeoGAF

[border]

Still working my way through these podcasts, and I've made it to Day Five at last!

I can't believe that the award for Best Overwatch Character went to Doom.

 

[Brandon F]

I love Stardew Valley something fierce, but man, listening to Dan clumsily defend putting it on the list was rough. Hearing him explain it reminded me that while I like him as a goof personality who blends really well with the rest of the GB crew, his ability to critically talk about games is uneven at best. His writing is better, but listening to him on podcasts always boils down to him using tautologies ("I like things because they're good, and I don't like things that are bad") or just dropping out of conversations entirely.

Though people's lazy attempts to ride the coat tails of Austin's informed, backed up stumping for Invisible Inc. last year was perhaps the greatest stumble. It was super-weird that Dan and Alex both tried to slide in their picks as "oh it's the Austin thing from last year" until Brad, I think, called them out for having to actually do the work and talk about their passion projects.

I dunno, in many ways Austin spoke more eloquently regarding his passion for Invisible Inc and why it deserved to be on the list, but was anyone convinced to actually give the game a shot afterwards? Was any discussion surrounding Invisible Inc ever brought up on a podcast or in video form following that deliberation over the entirety of the past year? Did Austin's diatribe actually succeed or was the decision to slot at #10 merely an olive branch as a measure of respect to a team member's strong passion? In that regard, I don't believe Dan or Alex made a less impressionable case here. They both made a clear case for why Thumper and Stardew left a mark on them with several examples, and that is all they really can do.

I do agree Dan's arguments can be rather tepid compared to Austin, but I also have never played Harvest Moon or Stardew and came away understanding perfectly why he felt so strongly for its inclusion no differently than how Austin spoke last year.

 

[erawsd]

I love Stardew Valley something fierce, but man, listening to Dan clumsily defend putting it on the list was rough. Hearing him explain it reminded me that while I like him as a goof personality who blends really well with the rest of the GB crew, his ability to critically talk about games is uneven at best. His writing is better, but listening to him on podcasts always boils down to him using tautologies ("I like things because they're good, and I don't like things that are bad") or just dropping out of conversations entirely.

Though people's lazy attempts to ride the coat tails of Austin's informed, backed up stumping for Invisible Inc. last year was perhaps the greatest stumble. It was super-weird that Dan and Alex both tried to slide in their picks as "oh it's the Austin thing from last year" until Brad, I think, called them out for having to actually do the work and talk about their passion projects.

And my favorite bit was Jeff's response to Dan attempting to say that Inside was "a chore" in solving puzzles while offering Stardew Valley as a refreshing, creative alternative.

Spoiler

YOU'RE LITERALLY DOING CHORES

Eh, I dont think its fair to say that people were just looking to "ride Austins coattails". The truth is that people have been getting personal picks on the list for as long as I can recall, especially Jeff and Brad. The only thing that distinguished Austin's pick was that it was a game no one else had played or even heard of. The stuff from this year was more like DOTA where multiple people played it but respected Brads "burning passion" enough to put it on the list anyway.

 

[lifetimeofnot]

They absolutely have overblown it, Brad in particular. Games vary, most just play in Pro mode with no setings to be messed with, a few have have options like higher framerate vs. 4K with lower framerate. There where like 3-4 games that ran worse that got patched within a couple weeks. Its about ad simple and straight forward as it can get, for better or worse but its in no way as confusing and weird as they made it out to be.

They are saying that it's confusing and weird because developers are not laying out %100 of what's in the pro patches in an easy to find way. I think it's dumb that it's hard to figure out what the benefits of running a game on a pro are but at the same time I only own a pro so it's not like I have a choice in the matter. So in a way the details of the pro mode don't matter at all except to gloat about them to people playing on the regular ps4.

 

[ElectronicOldMen]

I've started playing Doom, is it anything more than just 'Doom, but ironically'? It plays well as a self-aware nostalgic throwback, it executes on that better than anything that's tried to do that before, it is undeniably funny, but I'm already finding it a bit tiresome, just conceptually. It reminds me of the first Shadow Warrior reboot, or that Rise of the Triad reboot, or even Duke Nukem Forever, and not in a good way. Obviously it's much better than any of those, its attitude just feels a bit played out to me.

Like, someone mentioned The New Order on the last page, one of the things I loved about that was that it wasn't just an irreverent throwback to the conceit of what Wolfenstein is or was at the time, doing an ironic 'super jews vs space nazis' thing, but turned 'super jews vs space nazis' into its own fleshed-out world-building with great writing, direction, performances, characters that you care about, it isn't just played as one big nostalgic joke in the way that Doom feels like it is.

There's a version of TNO that goes for what Doom went for which I feel like GB would have been head over heels for and I wouldn't have given a fuck about. Likewise, if they had finished 'Call of Doom' and done it really well, I feel like I would've been way more into it than I am for the Doom we got. I do have a Half-Life 2 avatar though, so take that for what you will.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Pretty weak Best Game discussion this year. Top 10 barely moved, once it was in place. I feel like they buckled to Alex and Jason over Thumper and Hyperlight Drifter just so that they could move on.

I feel like Alex has the wrong mindset, he seems to only care about something he likes getting recognition rather than trying to build the best list. Thumper did not derserve to be on the top 10. They have their own personal lists for that reason.

Jeff had some weird vendetta against DOOM not winning for some reason despite praising it all year and never really seeming to care about the half baked multiplayer until now.

It all came together too smoothly this year, super tame and not all that interesting by the end.

So in other words: "come to hustle, be ready to tussle" except it was the usually pliant Alex and Jason instead of Brad Fillibustermaker and Jeff "Slip it in" Gerstmann? Alex had already failed his Boy Orbison; he wasnt about to fail again!

 

[Brandon F]

I've started playing Doom, is it anything more than just 'Doom, but ironically'? It plays well as a self-aware nostalgic throwback, it executes on that better than anything that's tried to do that before, it is undeniably funny, but I'm already finding it a bit tiresome, just conceptually. It reminds me of the first Shadow Warrior reboot, or that Rise of the Triad reboot, or even Duke Nukem Forever, and not in a good way. Obviously it's much better than any of those, its attitude just feels a bit played out to me.

Like, someone mentioned The New Order on the last page, one of the things I loved about that was that it wasn't just an irreverent throwback to the conceit of what Wolfenstein is or was at the time, doing an ironic 'super jews vs space nazis' thing, but turned 'super jews vs space nazis' into its own fleshed-out world-building with great writing, direction, performances, characters that you care about, it isn't just played as one big nostalgic joke in the way that Doom feels like it is.

There's a version of TNO that goes for what Doom went for which I feel like GB would have been head over heels for and I wouldn't have given a fuck about. Likewise, if they had finished 'Call of Doom' and done it really well, I feel like I would've been way more into it than I am for the Doom we got. I do have a Half-Life 2 avatar though, so take that for what you will.

I think(and many would agree) it does do a lot more than merely being "Doom, but ironically", but its hard to suss out in your post exactly what problems you do have outside of broad, surface-level assumptions.

On its own the game doesn't elicit a very interesting narrative, but its the subtle details, of which there are many, where it greatly succeeds. Moreso for those with reverence for the classic games, particularly through the written codecs and mannerisms of the Doom Slayer(not to mention how undeniably successful, satisfying, and balanced the core gameplay loop is). Any specifics on what exactly is giving you pause? Are games to be judged solely on the execution of its 'hero's journey' and the emotional connections with a cast of characters across its narrative arc? Given your TNO analogy, that kind of appears to be the case for you.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Holy shit Hitman did it! Oh my god. Awesome. Love Doom though.

Dan's singing is the worst

 

[Iksenpets]

I wish Austin had still been around just because the whole compromise that built that top 10 would have broken down had Austin been there and had he tried to push Quadrilateral Cowboy as his passion project. The fight that would have ensued if Dan felt like Stardew was in danger because of QC would have been great.

 

[FStop7]

It's always rubbed me the wrong way the way that they blanket warn against any spoiler, any game at any time in these.

Would it be that hard to have all the naturally spoiler awards (biggest surprise, best story, best moment etc) be put into one podcast that is clearly labeled the spoiler cast? Then, should it be appropriate to discuss something in detail that is in spoiler territory in the non-spoiler cast, you give the proverbial "fast forward 2 minutes if you don't want this spoiled" statement?

I'm glad they do these, but their approach to spoilers where likely 100% of the audience has not played all the titles is poor.

no

 

[Laurentius]

There's like a 150 videos of Persona 4.

I meant out of videos released in the last year.

 

[Grisby]

Final discussion was super tepid compared to other years or, heck, even last year.

I do miss the critical eye that Austin and Patrick could bring. Hopefully new blood mc recruit person can bring some more involved discussions for next years talks.

All and all though it was some fantastic podcast content. Thumbs up to the bombers.

Although Tracer got robbed. Pharah? Really?

 

[Corran Horn]

This was a boring goty discussion. Outside of 1&2 there didn't seem to be much disagreement besides getting their passion games on which I think people caved to move on and finish the podcasts.


I don't mind the games on the list but it felt like it went quick. I kinda hope they get a Patrick/Austin type personality next to bring some more discussion.

 

[ElectronicOldMen]

I think(and many would agree) it does do a lot more than merely being "Doom, but ironically", but its hard to suss out in your post exactly what problems you do have outside of broad, surface-level assumptions.

On its own the game doesn't elicit a very interesting narrative, but its the subtle details, of which there are many, where it greatly succeeds. Moreso for those with reverence for the classic games, particularly through the written codecs and mannerisms of the Doom Slayer(not to mention how undeniably successful, satisfying, and balanced the core gameplay loop is). Any specifics on what exactly is giving you pause? Are games to be judged solely on the execution of its 'hero's journey' and the emotional connections with a cast of characters across its narrative arc? Given your TNO analogy, that kind of appears to be the case for you.

I guess what I meant by referring to TNO isn't specifically to do with the execution of its narrative in comparison to Doom, they're obviously going for two completely different things, and to compare the entire experience of each by reducing them to their narrative arc would be dumb, it's more of a difference in the attitudes they take towards their entire conception. Tonally, attitudinally, the overarching thing that Doom feels like is one big nostalgic oh-you-had-to-be-there, back-in-my-day joke, everything you mention reinforces this. It all feels like self-aware reverence for how dumb the original games were, for the butt-metal, pentagram, breakneck power fantasy ridiculousness of it all.

This all what the subtle details in the writing and world-building do, I mean you could make the argument that this what the entire loop of the combat serves to achieve as well, in the service of making Doomguy, and by extension the player, feel like a take-no-bullshit unstoppable god in the way that the original games did. It's hugely satisfying, it builds modern conveniences into it but goes for a pace which is completely unlike other modern FPS's, which is kinda the point, it's all in service of nostalgically eliciting the feeling that the old games did rather than trying to do its own new thing, if you get what I mean. Obviously this tone absolutely does it for a lot of people, hell, that it's funny and well-written enough to not send your eyes rolling into space is a pretty big achievement, no? It just fundamentally, conceptually, bores me.

 

[j-wood]

Jeff's argument against doom made a ton of sense IMO.

You are looking at best game. That includes the entire package. There are separate categories for individual aspects. Look no further than best story for a good example. Uncharted 4 had an amazing story, but they hated the actual game play, so it won the category. You wouldn't then say Uncharted 4 wins game of the year because it's story is just SO GOOD and better than everything else that you can ignore the game play.

The total package of DOOM is not good, but the single player is absolutely amazing. That doesn't erase the other terrible aspects of the game.

Hitman still has flaws yeah. You can say it's level creator sucks. But the total package of hitman can still be better than the total package of doom.

 

[killroy87]

Jeff's argument of DOOM was sound, but it's still super hypocritical considering the same argument could have been used against Super Mario Maker last year, where certain aspects of sharing and discovering levels were incredibly lacking.

 

[EdReedFan20]

Did anyone find Brad downplaying the importance of the volume of Hitman videos odd? I mean, it won, so it's a moot issue, but there's a reason why there are so many Hitman videos.

Jeff's argument against doom made a ton of sense IMO.

You are looking at best game. That includes the entire package. There are separate categories for individual aspects. Look no further than best story for a good example. Uncharted 4 had an amazing story, but they hated the actual game play, so it won the category. You wouldn't then say Uncharted 4 wins game of the year because it's story is just SO GOOD and better than everything else that you can ignore the game play.

The total package of DOOM is not good, but the single player is absolutely amazing. That doesn't erase the other terrible aspects of the game.

Hitman still has flaws yeah. You can say it's level creator sucks. But the total package of hitman can still be better than the total package of doom.

I do find it odd that they didn't even bring up Uncharted's multiplayer. That's a massive chunk of the game. The same thing happened with The Last of Us (despite that winning GOTY) and when they actually took time to play the multiplayer (when the PS4 version hit), they were shocked how good it was. I wonder, had the Survival Mode (aka horde mode) was there earlier, if they would've given the multiplayer a bigger look. From what I've seen, the multiplayer mode is quite popular.

 

[Nameless]

Jeff's argument against doom made a ton of sense IMO.

You are looking at best game. That includes the entire package. There are separate categories for individual aspects. Look no further than best story for a good example. Uncharted 4 had an amazing story, but they hated the actual game play, so it won the category. You wouldn't then say Uncharted 4 wins game of the year because it's story is just SO GOOD and better than everything else that you can ignore the game play.

The total package of DOOM is not good, but the single player is absolutely amazing. That doesn't erase the other terrible aspects of the game.

Hitman still has flaws yeah. You can say it's level creator sucks. But the total package of hitman can still be better than the total package of doom.

Agreed. That's why even as a Battlefield fan I find Titanfall 2 tough deny as the most complete shooter and one of the most complete packages released this year, period:

-stellar core mechanics
-top tier, innovative campaign
-incredible multiplayer
-all the QoL features you look in a shooter from snappy load times, easily accessible customization/loadout/stat menus, harsh rage quit penalities,robust aim config, daily exp bonuses..
-free DLC

It's my GOTY precisely because it stacks up against anything I played, online or offline, single or multiplayer. That's quite an achievement, and definitely should have been more of a factor in its placing.

 

[robinsxe]

I love Stardew Valley something fierce, but man, listening to Dan clumsily defend putting it on the list was rough. Hearing him explain it reminded me that while I like him as a goof personality who blends really well with the rest of the GB crew, his ability to critically talk about games is uneven at best. His writing is better, but listening to him on podcasts always boils down to him using tautologies ("I like things because they're good, and I don't like things that are bad") or just dropping out of conversations entirely.

Though people's lazy attempts to ride the coat tails of Austin's informed, backed up stumping for Invisible Inc. last year was perhaps the greatest stumble. It was super-weird that Dan and Alex both tried to slide in their picks as "oh it's the Austin thing from last year" until Brad, I think, called them out for having to actually do the work and talk about their passion projects.

And my favorite bit was Jeff's response to Dan attempting to say that Inside was "a chore" in solving puzzles while offering Stardew Valley as a refreshing, creative alternative.

Spoiler

YOU'RE LITERALLY DOING CHORES

My thoughts exactly, well put sir.

 

[OkayRene]

Jeff's argument against doom made a ton of sense IMO.

You are looking at best game. That includes the entire package. There are separate categories for individual aspects. Look no further than best story for a good example. Uncharted 4 had an amazing story, but they hated the actual game play, so it won the category. You wouldn't then say Uncharted 4 wins game of the year because it's story is just SO GOOD and better than everything else that you can ignore the game play.

The total package of DOOM is not good, but the single player is absolutely amazing. That doesn't erase the other terrible aspects of the game.

Hitman still has flaws yeah. You can say it's level creator sucks. But the total package of hitman can still be better than the total package of doom.

I was on the other side, but when you frame it that way I can agree.

 

[soundscream]

Jeff's argument against doom made a ton of sense IMO.

You are looking at best game. That includes the entire package. There are separate categories for individual aspects. Look no further than best story for a good example. Uncharted 4 had an amazing story, but they hated the actual game play, so it won the category. You wouldn't then say Uncharted 4 wins game of the year because it's story is just SO GOOD and better than everything else that you can ignore the game play.

The total package of DOOM is not good, but the single player is absolutely amazing. That doesn't erase the other terrible aspects of the game.

Hitman still has flaws yeah. You can say it's level creator sucks. But the total package of hitman can still be better than the total package of doom.

Its also funny that Alex used the multiplayer wasnt great argument for Forza Horizon 3 as a reason it shouldnt be top 10 but didnt want to apply the same argument to Doom when arguing it should be #1.

 

[Dangansona]

The more I listen the more I'm thankful for Alex and Vinny. Beastcast is best cast.

 

[chillybright]

Dan didn't discover a single environmental puzzle in The Witness.

Still list it on his personal TOP 10.

He must like those panel puzzles so much.

 

[Curufinwe]

Jeff's argument against doom made a ton of sense IMO.

You are looking at best game. That includes the entire package. There are separate categories for individual aspects. Look no further than best story for a good example. Uncharted 4 had an amazing story, but they hated the actual game play, so it won the category. You wouldn't then say Uncharted 4 wins game of the year because it's story is just SO GOOD and better than everything else that you can ignore the game play.

The total package of DOOM is not good, but the single player is absolutely amazing. That doesn't erase the other terrible aspects of the game.

Hitman still has flaws yeah. You can say it's level creator sucks. But the total package of hitman can still be better than the total package of doom.

Jeffs the only one who hated the gameplay.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

At first I was petrified.

I thought Dan would be awkward about getting SV into the top 10 and that it would make for a painful listen.
But the solution of getting all three into the Top 10 really worked.

I kind of wish there was more debate about the ordering of the 10, but either way, it was an enjoyable listen.

 

[thepotatoman]

I kind of wish there was more debate about the ordering of the 10, but either way, it was an enjoyable listen.

Only thing that really bugged me is alex starting the argument for thumper at 9 over stardew valley, and no one caring to challenge him on it, simply because Dan doesn't care at all about ordering.

But ordering doesn't really matter that much anyway outside of the top 3 so I get it, but alex's sole argument about him loving thumper more than dan loved stardew valley gets destroyed just on the fact that thumper is 2 on alex's list and stardew valley is dan's GotY.

 

[deleted]

Dan didn't discover a single environmental puzzle in The Witness.

Still list it on his personal TOP 10.

He must like those panel puzzles so much.

I 'just' started the game and my mind is blown how he could miss them all.

You are guided towards the first one about 5 minutes into the game..

BTW which day was Breads spoiler talk about the Witness? Skipped it, but I want to listen to that now that I'm playing the game...

 

[Bacon]

What goty video should I watch besides hitman and the gamespot one because I already saw those?

 

[Tubobutts]

What goty video should I watch besides hitman and the gamespot one because I already saw those?

Rock Band.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Only thing that really bugged me is alex starting the argument for thumper at 9 over stardew valley, and no one caring to challenge him on it, simply because Dan doesn't care at all about ordering.

But ordering doesn't really matter that much anyway outside of the top 3 so I get it, but alex's sole argument about him loving thumper more than dan loved stardew valley gets destroyed just on the fact that thumper is 2 on alex's list and stardew valley is dan's GotY.

Dan was just happy to get Stardew in the top 10. And at a certain point, outside the top 3, order doesnt really matter.

 

[TheYanger]

I 'just' started the game and my mind is blown how he could miss them all.

You are guided towards the first one about 5 minutes into the game..

BTW which day was Breads spoiler talk about the Witness? Skipped it, but I want to listen to that now that I'm playing the game...

I mean, you're at the first one literally 10 seconds into the game, which ones are obvious for people are going to heavily depend on your observational skills and just personal biases. And also, besides the WTF THATS AWESOME moment of finding them, the puzzles are still the better part of the game in terms of gameplay so it's not surprising there.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Only thing that really bugged me is alex starting the argument for thumper at 9 over stardew valley, and no one caring to challenge him on it, simply because Dan doesn't care at all about ordering.

But ordering doesn't really matter that much anyway outside of the top 3 so I get it, but alex's sole argument about him loving thumper more than dan loved stardew valley gets destroyed just on the fact that thumper is 2 on alex's list and stardew valley is dan's GotY.

There was more / at least more enthusiastic support for Thumper than Stardew iirc, so it felt like a logical thing to go with.

 

[chillybright]

I 'just' started the game and my mind is blown how he could miss them all.

You are guided towards the first one about 5 minutes into the game..

BTW which day was Breads spoiler talk about the Witness? Skipped it, but I want to listen to that now that I'm playing the game...

I think it is the best moment on day 4.

 

[Aselith]

Still working my way through these podcasts, and I've made it to Day Five at last!

I can't believe that the award for Best Overwatch Character went to Doom.

His name is Reaper

 

[stryker1138]

Jeff's argument against doom made a ton of sense IMO.

You are looking at best game. That includes the entire package. There are separate categories for individual aspects. Look no further than best story for a good example. Uncharted 4 had an amazing story, but they hated the actual game play, so it won the category. You wouldn't then say Uncharted 4 wins game of the year because it's story is just SO GOOD and better than everything else that you can ignore the game play.

The total package of DOOM is not good, but the single player is absolutely amazing. That doesn't erase the other terrible aspects of the game.

Hitman still has flaws yeah. You can say it's level creator sucks. But the total package of hitman can still be better than the total package of doom.

I just can't agree with this at all. To me, game packages are cumulative, not zero sum. The existence of modes I will never touch does not impact my enjoyment of unrelated activities in any way. I don't have a problem with Hitman winning because it's a great game, but I can't wrap my head around the idea that Doom's thoroughly satisfying, completely economically justified campaign is in any way lessened because the developers also included a mediocre multiplayer mode in the box.

So yeah, listening to that last podcast where nobody had the guts to really challenge Jeff on that perspective was frustrating.

 

[Chumley]

Jeff's argument against doom made a ton of sense IMO.

You are looking at best game. That includes the entire package. There are separate categories for individual aspects. Look no further than best story for a good example. Uncharted 4 had an amazing story, but they hated the actual game play, so it won the category. You wouldn't then say Uncharted 4 wins game of the year because it's story is just SO GOOD and better than everything else that you can ignore the game play.

The total package of DOOM is not good, but the single player is absolutely amazing. That doesn't erase the other terrible aspects of the game.

Hitman still has flaws yeah. You can say it's level creator sucks. But the total package of hitman can still be better than the total package of doom.

Games are not zero sum. Full stop. If id literally just removed MP and suddenly Doom becomes GOTY, the argument falls apart, since MP has no effect on SP. Not even remotely the same as UC4's story since that's directly a part of its campaign while Doom's campaign has no flaws. They also never mentioned the Hitman user generated content so they didn't even stick to their own logic of assessing the "full package".

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I just started listening to giant bomb this year.

I found myself agreeing with alex alot, and he wouldnt really throw a fit if something he liked wasnt going to make the cut he would just say what he wanted about it and move on.

The only time i thought jeff was being unreasonable was on inside, it was literally the entire room against him and he still took a while before he finally let it go.

I listened to all 5 days and enjoyed it, will definitely listen again next year.

 

[sgjackson]

I think Jeff's argument for Doom makes sense if you read it as being disappointed that an id game has bad multiplayer and mods, and not just that a AAA game had bad multiplayer. Those aspects of id shooters were a huge hook for a shitload of people, and the grand return of id as a marquee dev fucking those up is definitely noteworthy and I can totally see someone dying on that hill in a GotY discussion. In this light, I also think it gets nailed if it totally lacks MP/mods.

He probably did a poor job of conveying this, but I recall him mentioning it a few times.

 

[EdReedFan20]

I think Jeff's argument for Doom makes sense if you read it as being disappointed that an id game has bad multiplayer and mods, and not just that a AAA had bad multiplayer. Those aspects of id shooters were a huge hook for a shitload of people, and the grand return of id as a marquee dev fucking those up is definitely noteworthy and I can totally see someone dying on that hill in a GotY discussion.

id didn't do the multiplayer alone. Certain Affinity co-developed it. Not sure if that makes things better of worse, in terms of the game's multiplayer mode. I wonder what the multiplayer would've looked like if id actually made it by themselves.

 

[Hey_Blinkin]

It really says something about the guys' personalities and chemistry when I continue to listen and support the site when their tastes are so far off from my own lol. As someone who primarily plays RPGs and a ton of JRPGS I rarely align with their choices. It was nice to hear Alex speak up for Tokyo Mirage Sessions though.

Anyone else feel the tension between Jeff and Jason? It seems their personalities don't quite gel sometimes. The final discussion did feel much more tame this year though.

 

[Laurentius]

Anyone else feel the tension between Jeff and Jason? It seems their personalities don't quite gel sometimes.

Nope, not really. I think you're reading into things too much.

 

[ScientificPizza]

Nope, not really. I think you're reading into things too much.

I heard Jeff and Brad can't stand each other

 

[KarmaCow]

Dan didn't discover a single environmental puzzle in The Witness.

Still list it on his personal TOP 10.

He must like those panel puzzles so much.

Eh, the environment puzzles are good moment to stumble upon but the puzzles themselves kinda suck. There are a few good ones that genuinely require careful observation of the environment but most are about find the specific spot you need to stand in, getting the right angle, and then making tiny movements to get things lined up properly. It's the opposite of what makes the panel puzzles genius in that the puzzle panels makes actually inputing the solution you already know trivial instead of that fairly inconsequential bit being a roadblock. They also clearly defined the rules and boundries for the solution, even in the case where the outside environment comes into play.

 

[mnz]

Nah, didn't hear that. Only thing I noticed this year was how often they shut down Dan, even contradicting themselves in the process.

 

[sgjackson]

id didn't do the multiplayer alone. Certain Affinity co-developed it. Not sure if that makes things better of worse, in terms of the game's multiplayer mode. I wonder what the multiplayer would've looked like if id actually made it by themselves.

Yeah, I know, but I also don't think it matters - in a game called Doom it's perfectly valid to expect MP to be a certain level of quality/type of experience, and if it misses the mark it's a slight on the experience.

TBH (as someone with zero nostalgia for id software) I think the weirdness of SnapMap probably matters more and Quake Champions has much bigger expectations with regard to multiplayer.

I think it's cool that Hitman won, though. Doom was a brilliant distillation of the past, whereas Hitman feels like a glimpse into the future. Being episodic actively improved the experience, and it felt like there was finally powerful enough hardware and design knowhow to make the clockwork maps inviting for newbies while still providing crazy enough options and tools for hardcore stealth and Hitman fans. I enjoyed my time with Doom more, but I had so much fun both watching and playing Hitman this year I don't really give a shit.

GiantBomb broke my brain though. I watched them be goofy and fuck up so many times I went into Hitman really enjoying trying to be quiet and professional instead of doing the craziest thing possible.

 

[EdReedFan20]

Yeah, I know, but I also don't think it matters - in a game called Doom it's perfectly valid to expect MP to be a certain level of quality/type of experience, and if it misses the mark it's a slight on the experience.

TBH (as someone with zero nostalgia for id software) I think the weirdness of SnapMap probably matters more and Quake Champions has much bigger expectations with regard to multiplayer.

I think it's cool that Hitman won, though. Doom was a brilliant distillation of the past, whereas Hitman feels like a glimpse into the future. Being episodic actively improved the experience, and it felt like there was finally powerful enough hardware and design knowhow to make the clockwork maps inviting for newbies while still providing crazy enough options and tools for hardcore stealth and Hitman fans. I enjoyed my time with Doom more, but I had so much fun both watching and playing Hitman this year I don't really give a shit.

GiantBomb broke my brain though. I watched them be goofy and fuck up so many times I went into Hitman really enjoying trying to be quiet and professional instead of doing the craziest thing possible.

I said this in the main thread, but I really want to see a Giant Bomb Makes Doom series, where Brad, Jeff (maybe Drew) and chat make a deathmatch map in SnapMap and then start a match in said map.

 

[sgjackson]

I said this in the main thread, but I really want to see a Giant Bomb Makes Doom series, where Brad, Jeff (maybe Drew) and chat make a deathmatch map in SnapMap and then start a match in said map.

i haven't engaged with snapmap at all and if it's actually cool it's a noteworthy oversight

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Dan has written and talked about Stardew all year. Obviously it seems cheap to rely on past discussion for a new debate, but I never felt like I was confused about where Dan was coming from.

Perhaps he should have been forced to argue more convincingly and and at more length, but his comments seemed like a clear continuation of the things he's been saying all year, and I feel like the rest of the crew might have felt that way too. If anything, there wasn't much of a convincing argument made for keeping it off.

 

[ElectronicOldMen]

I love Stardew Valley something fierce, but man, listening to Dan clumsily defend putting it on the list was rough. Hearing him explain it reminded me that while I like him as a goof personality who blends really well with the rest of the GB crew, his ability to critically talk about games is uneven at best. His writing is better, but listening to him on podcasts always boils down to him using tautologies ("I like things because they're good, and I don't like things that are bad") or just dropping out of conversations entirely.

Though people's lazy attempts to ride the coat tails of Austin's informed, backed up stumping for Invisible Inc. last year was perhaps the greatest stumble. It was super-weird that Dan and Alex both tried to slide in their picks as "oh it's the Austin thing from last year" until Brad, I think, called them out for having to actually do the work and talk about their passion projects.

And my favorite bit was Jeff's response to Dan attempting to say that Inside was "a chore" in solving puzzles while offering Stardew Valley as a refreshing, creative alternative.

Spoiler

YOU'RE LITERALLY DOING CHORES

Yeah, definitely. I haven't played Stardew Valley and I imagine it's pretty great based on how many people I've heard rave about it, but what Dan described every time he tried to fight for it sounds like the opposite of anything enjoyable. Every time he tried to argue for it on the basis of 'there's just so much to do' or 'it's got so much stuff in it', and how oppressive he made the time cycle mechanic sound, it completely works against what he's arguing for. In the post-Skyrim, post-NMS, post-Ur-Game world advertising something based on how much content it has is kinda offputting.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

id didn't do the multiplayer alone. Certain Affinity co-developed it. Not sure if that makes things better of worse, in terms of the game's multiplayer mode. I wonder what the multiplayer would've looked like if id actually made it by themselves.

Yeah but to some extent this leads to things like Eidos Montreal saying the bosses in Deus Ex Human Revolution weren't their fault because they outsourced them, you know?