Human Trashcan
Banned
I'm not sure you know how opinions work
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Giant Bomb |OT28| Welcome to the Penis Farm
- Thread starter BreezyLimbo
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I'm not sure you know how opinions work
It's more like 7-8, and that's me being generous. Even when things "kick off" you're still sitting around doing nothing besides climbing the Tower of Boredom and waiting for the sweet release of death I mean the next plot point to happen
nishitani hype trainnnnnnn
Hot Coldman
Banned
I think if 4 hadn't used that concept there'd be less of a sense of deja vu. It makes for a more awkward fit in 4 than it does here. Ironic, because
4 spends more time setting up the turn into fighting despair than 5 does, which pretty much leaves it until the very last moment. But at least in 5 you've got months of public unrest and pettiness to back up that turn, whereas P4 is kind of just "hey, this fog sure sucks!".
Or you could give me the benefit of the doubt and assume I do. 5 does a lot of stuff hands down better than 3 or 4. 4 did stuff better than 3 too, but the evolution of systems between 5 and 4 is far larger than from 4 to 3. I like 3 better than 4 but I'm not going to argue 3 plays better. Likewise, anyone prepared to argue 5 plays worse than 3 or 4 is going to have a wild perspective to explain. But if they just like 5 less than the others because the themes and characters don't work as well for them, that's not something anyone can question.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Also the teacher romance in 3 is slightly better than 5.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Do we get more cabaret management?
Death Metalist
Member
Motherfucker, I run a Cabaret club.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I think that works though? Like the Phantom Thieves are a real rag-tag group of idiots clumsily just doing whatever seems like the right idea at the time. And the game punishes them for that a lot later on. It feels like each Persona game's team gets less and less organised with each new entry, ha.
Human Trashcan
Banned
That's the thing, that's what you come to a Persona game for, right? It's just so shallow. It has nothing to say other than adults are shitty and the powerful abuse the weak, but there's no systemic critique of any kind, it just presents these cartoon villains. I might not be so hard on it if it didn't take a fucking hundred hours, literally, to go absolutely nowhere. Or if any of the characters felt like they had more depth than a scooby doo character. Or if it didn't constantly undermine its core themes in the confidant storylines, everyone's constant sexualization of Ann (even the cat gets in on it), and those gay stereotypes. I resent it.
Well, I kinda mean more like
It also doesn't help that imho each dungeon is paced about 20 minutes longer than I would like.
It also doesn't help that it came on the heels of Nier (localisation troubles for P5 aside even). A saturday morning cartoon level of moralising was always a rough sell, but after something so... thoughtful as Nier, my brain was not in the mood to straight-up applaud P5's often clumsy attempts at trying to put across a message. I mean, I know that's what Persona is, but still.
the way dungeons in P5 aren't necessarily hooked to the personal journeys of your main characters? Or if they are, it's done in a way that feels a lot less... personal than in P4. I mean, it was unavoidable probably since the Dungeons in P4 are the mindscapes of the party members themselves, so obviously they reflect their own journeys a lot better, but stuff like Madarame and Flydude, while still being 'linked' to each party member's personal journey, never reach the heights of Kamoshida or Futaba's Tomb I think.
It also doesn't help that imho each dungeon is paced about 20 minutes longer than I would like.
It also doesn't help that it came on the heels of Nier (localisation troubles for P5 aside even). A saturday morning cartoon level of moralising was always a rough sell, but after something so... thoughtful as Nier, my brain was not in the mood to straight-up applaud P5's often clumsy attempts at trying to put across a message. I mean, I know that's what Persona is, but still.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Not sure what to think of the P5 plot yet. I haven't finished the game yet (on 10/28 atm), but I wish I didn't feel like I already figured out the big "twists" pretty early on in the game. No idea if it's actually true or not, but so far everything seems extremely telegraphed. For a game that relies so much on its mysteries, it isn't a good feeling when I feel like I'm a step ahead of our main characters at all times.
I do hope I'm supposed to feel these things so the game can do a swerve later on, but I'm not so sure...
I do hope I'm supposed to feel these things so the game can do a swerve later on, but I'm not so sure...
Hot Coldman
Banned
Besides the political riffing that clearly won't make sense for anyone not following IRL Japanese political scandals (i.e.: me), I'm not impressed too much by P5's messaging and morals, nah. My brain sort of puts it in a totally different place than something like a Nier or Night in the Woods, but it doesn't deliver as well as P3 did for sure.
But as a hero's journey/hero's revenge sort of story, I think it's awfully effective. Like the "twists" aren't terribly surprising, but damn if what happens there isn't satisfying and frequently shocking. Seeing the MC get his justice is pretty compelling, honestly: that opening does a LOT of great work to carry through your motivation all the way to hour 100.
But as a hero's journey/hero's revenge sort of story, I think it's awfully effective. Like the "twists" aren't terribly surprising, but damn if what happens there isn't satisfying and frequently shocking. Seeing the MC get his justice is pretty compelling, honestly: that opening does a LOT of great work to carry through your motivation all the way to hour 100.
this is the run
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Serioisly though, they need to continue BitE past 0 just so that vinny can learn that kiryu is cool and badass and had a hard life.
GB never played past the first Shenmue or Dragon Quest either.
Human Trashcan
Banned
lmao Alex just killed me with the A Song of Ice and Fire joke. Dude always cracks me up with his references
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Wait.
Dragon quest?
Dragon quest?
Not on the site. more like they aren't familiar with >=2
I've been thinking about this. I think the game does indeed have a core message, it just comes across shoddily because either;
1) The localisation.
2) It sort of lacks the courage of its convictions, bit of hypocrisy with Ann's sexualisation, gay panic, etc
3) Endgame spoilers;
that message is being delivered by a non-human God cup who sort of waffles philosophy.
What I think the game is ultimately saying is that the public are the ones who are fucked up, the individuals you deal with are just symptoms of the disease. I think there's enough connective tissue on that one throughout the game.
Everyone knows Kamoshida is dirty, but society tends to be rather unconcerned with rape and sexual abuse if the accused has some sort of contribution elsewhere (Penn State, Cosby, etc).
The process to get the MC exonerated even after Shido confesses is absurd. Law and order and the idea of justice is pushed often to the extreme and innocent people are targeted for breaking up rapes. Once someone has the stigma of guilt it's extremely hard to remove. Initially I thought this one was extremely Japan specific but you only need to think about something like the Central Park five and you can see how pervasive it is.
Okamura; society is complicit in looking the other way on labor abuse and poor safety practices if we get our cheap food, cheap clothes, cheap phones and yes, our cheap video games.
We're also extremely bad at stopping what are basically shallow conmen from exploiting us politically like Shido tries to. We seek simple, evocative answers to complex problems and then expect individual figures to sort it out. I'm surprised Shido never said he was going to make Japan Great Again.
Everyone knows Kamoshida is dirty, but society tends to be rather unconcerned with rape and sexual abuse if the accused has some sort of contribution elsewhere (Penn State, Cosby, etc).
The process to get the MC exonerated even after Shido confesses is absurd. Law and order and the idea of justice is pushed often to the extreme and innocent people are targeted for breaking up rapes. Once someone has the stigma of guilt it's extremely hard to remove. Initially I thought this one was extremely Japan specific but you only need to think about something like the Central Park five and you can see how pervasive it is.
Okamura; society is complicit in looking the other way on labor abuse and poor safety practices if we get our cheap food, cheap clothes, cheap phones and yes, our cheap video games.
We're also extremely bad at stopping what are basically shallow conmen from exploiting us politically like Shido tries to. We seek simple, evocative answers to complex problems and then expect individual figures to sort it out. I'm surprised Shido never said he was going to make Japan Great Again.
The game sort of struggles to tie any of that together (or maybe I'm reading into this way, way too much) and in the end that's why you sort of get your typical anime themed ending. I also don't think the emancipation stuff really ties in well at all beyond being a theme for how the Velvet Room is set out.
Spoilers for the entirety of Persona 5: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=234985984&postcount=1807
Very unlikely to be the case.
thats a dunk
Jeff feels the same way about P5 fans but he doesn't want to lose all his sub money.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I do enjoy that they basically make you play as literal SJWs for a series enjoyed by people who would unironically use the term SJW.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Right who woulda thunk society is the real enemy in p5 and you fight against it.
Human Trashcan
Banned
That doesn't exactly change my mind. Only in games would such a ham-fisted message be considered good writing.
and yet there's still fucking idiots on the internet who are like "PHANTOM THIEVES WOULD SUPPORT GAMERGATE"
it's like, dumbasses, can you even read
The intention isn't to change your mind, but the statement "it has nothing to say" is pretty wrong. You can find it shallow, but there is an obvious throughline from the beginning of the game to the end.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
They probably would tho
Cause fighting the system can be construed both ways. The system changes depending on who runs it.
Their thieves not crusaders
Human Trashcan
Banned
Fine, I'll change it to "what it has to say is painfully shallow and doesn't hold up to a lot of scrutiny"
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Though it is also disappointing to see that kind of game also spout some of the same bullshit rhetoric of that side in regards to gay representation.
broncobuster
Banned
"Where would you get shot if you had to get shot?"
i can't even parse this breezy, you'll have to explain it to me
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
For real tho, what are the chances of them announcing the new hires today? I doubt it would be in the "Murder Island" stream, would it?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Corruption isnt exclusive to one side. Im sure those on the eiher side can cherrypick examples to make it seem like p5 is pro this or pro that.
And yeah go to the damn spoiler thread or I start talking spoilers about this game that came out last year in JP without tags.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
(this is pure speculation but if true these are ENDGAME P5 SPOILERS, so I'm marking just in case)
The bald Hideki Kamiya looking dude is obvious the or one of the main villains. This has been pretty much spelled out at this point so I don't think the game is trying to make it a big reveal. No big issues there.
The main thing is I fully expect Akechi to be the black mask dude. I thought so pretty early on (pretty much as soon as you first hear about him) so I really hope that isn't true and the game doesn't treat it as some "TOP 10 ANIME BETRAYALS" moment because I won't be surprised by any of it. I'm sure there's more going on beyond that. Persona always brings out some ancient God shit at the last moment, but so far the story has entirely focused on the things I mentioned. So at the moment I'm just constantly anticipating these reveals so we can move on to more interesting things.
The main thing is I fully expect Akechi to be the black mask dude. I thought so pretty early on (pretty much as soon as you first hear about him) so I really hope that isn't true and the game doesn't treat it as some "TOP 10 ANIME BETRAYALS" moment because I won't be surprised by any of it. I'm sure there's more going on beyond that. Persona always brings out some ancient God shit at the last moment, but so far the story has entirely focused on the things I mentioned. So at the moment I'm just constantly anticipating these reveals so we can move on to more interesting things.
I could be completely wrong, and I hope I am. The story will become much more interesting that way.
Hot Coldman
Banned
100%.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Seriously, while i do want there to be new hires to get West kickstarted sooner, but the fallout if there aren't any today would be pretty funny.
I for one will be making multiple posts in this thread expressing my disappointment
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
What if the new hire is a new customer service rep and rorie is the new editor.
Best outcome for me personally.
Best outcome for me personally.
But Rorie doesn't play games.
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