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Giant Bomb |OT32| I've been meaning to love a boat

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I feel like "but the shooting is good" is more of a giantbomb meme really.

I mean the joke is literally Jeff saying something bad about destiny and then Brad going "I agree with you but the shooting is sooo good."

FOR MONTHS.
 
Abby exposing how these games should probably have tutorials since you can't assume the player knows all of the mechanics right away

Mania's probably my game of the year so far but I really feel for people who are lost in playing them

should mario have a tutorial

like

do you really think people need to know what the jump button does
 

kiguel182

Member
Abby exposing how these games should probably have tutorials since you can't assume the player knows all of the mechanics right away

Mania's probably my game of the year so far but I really feel for people who are lost in playing them

Yeah but then you got Dan saying "you got to go fast" when Sonic games make you stop and start all the time. And there's a lot of moments that are more "puzzly" and with precise platforming.

I'm not saying anything new but yeah, Sonic is a bit of a mess and her confusion regarding it makes total sense.

If it lacks tutorials on top of that then well, not good.
 
should mario have a tutorial

like

do you really think people need to know what the jump button does

that's very cute, but in Mania the jump button does like four different things

hold down and mash jump and you charge up a spin dash

hold it in mid-air and you charge a spin dash that triggers when you land

hold up and jump and you get Tails to fly if you have him tagging along, and if you jump into him he can fly you around

the game tells you none of this
 

kiguel182

Member
After that Cuphead debacle with the dude missing the tutorial I read a very interesting thread about tutorials and how it's really easy to mess them up.

I had to do tutorials before and yeah, not easy at all.

If the person playing gets confused then the game clearly failed at teaching its mechanics.

And not every game can have such seamless tutoralizing as SMB. No shame in that.
 
When did the Premium sale start?

I auto-paid $49.99 on the 6th September, think I remember last time they did a sale like this that you could contact Matt and get the cheaper price even after automatically paying the higher one if the two overlapped.
 
that's very cute, but in Mania the jump button does like four different things

hold down and mash jump and you charge up a spin dash

hold it in mid-air and you charge a spin dash that triggers when you land

hold up and jump and you get Tails to fly if you have him tagging along, and if you jump into him he can fly you around

the game tells you none of this

look at the digital manual

people are so against reading these days. No wonder gb hates half the games when they don't read the basics. they want everything spoonfed to them through tutorials!!
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
When did the Premium sale start?

I auto-paid $49.99 on the 6th September, think I remember last time they did a sale like this that you could contact Matt and get the cheaper price even after automatically paying the higher one if the two overlapped.

You can still do that

Also: most renewals during a sale week will go through at the full price with the store code. If you'd prefer to get the sale price, just go ahead and extend your membership during the sale and that'll be that! If you do renew at full price, just email me at support and don't use the store code; I can cancel it and refund you the difference. It might take me a day or two to get back to you, though!

My subscription also renewed during the sale but I don't care about the ~10€ difference. I spend too much time on that dumb site, I can pay full price.
 

Hasney

Member
I was excited to maybe try Destiny but reaction is more...tepid than I thought it would be?

You can't blow peoples minds who have already played almost the same game with different content through the old Destiny.

If you've never played Destiny, 2 is a great place to try it. If you played Destiny for thousands of hours, it's more of that and those people are happy but not jizzing everywhere.
 

Stoze

Member
look at the digital manual

people are so against reading these days. No wonder gb hates half the games when they don't read the basics. they want everything spoonfed to them through tutorials!!

You know what's better than a digital manual? Teaching your players things intuitively by designing a good tutorial. A lot of good game design is about spoonfeeding the player without the player knowing or feeling like they're being spoonfed.

At the very least, lets agree Sonic Mania could've done better than this in the options:
Meuk79M.png
 
I decided to give PAX Wrestling yet another chance even though I said I was done last time.

As soon as Kenny Omega spoke and there was no direct audio I closed the window. Their production hasn't improved at all.
 

kvothe

Member
look at the digital manual

people are so against reading these days. No wonder gb hates half the games when they don't read the basics. they want everything spoonfed to them through tutorials!!

In an age where paper manuals have gone extinct, the idea of looking for instructions anywhere outside of the game itself seems absurd.
 
Just had fried egg and avocado toast

Now Im eating grapes while watching The Matrix

This was brought to you by the weekly Food Minute™
 

Harpuia

Member
Oh c'mon just read the damn instructions to a game. Google them! if experimentation or explicit tutorials don't get the point across then it only benefits you to look them up somewhere.
 

oti

Banned
I love the continued incredulity of people saying “How can you not understand Sonic? It’s a game for children!”

This idea of feeling like you’re playing Sonic wrong is absolutely a thing that a lot of people experience. I have it myself, in a way that no other game makes me feel. Brad and Jeff even mentioned it on the Bombcast a few weeks ago.

It's ok. Some of us have just forgotten how to play bad games. Or were lucky enough to never have to learn how to play bad games because we had good games. Like not-Sonic.
 
I never understood the "rhythm" of Sonic, even as a kid (and I played pretty much every other platformer of the era). Never got into it because of that.
 

bigkrev

Member
I love the continued incredulity of people saying “How can you not understand Sonic? It’s a game for children!”

This idea of feeling like you’re playing Sonic wrong is absolutely a thing that a lot of people experience. I have it myself, in a way that no other game makes me feel. Brad and Jeff even mentioned it on the Bombcast a few weeks ago.

I think a big part of it is that Sonic does not seem to teach its mechanics through level design like Mario tends to. You just blindly go right until something gets in your way and stops your momentum. Then you get the feeling “Did I do something wrong?” I started playing Sonic Mania (finally) a few days ago and it still has that feeling that I got when I was a kid. I run really fast and get in a groove that’s feeling good and then suddenly I smash into an enemy or a bumper that takes away all momentum and all sense of fun.

I think Jeremy Parrish did an awesome job explaining how well 1-1 in Mario tutorialized the game in his anatomy of a game series http://www.anatomyofgames.com/2013/08/08/anatomy-of-super-mario-xi-learning-the-ropes/

But even if you don’t wait for the attract mode to kick in, the goals make themselves manifest immediately after you start. The game begins in an unusually low-stress fashion with Mario at the far left edge of the screen, facing right, with nothing else in sight. This calls back to Donkey Kong, which began with Mario at the bottom left of the girder course; placing his back to a proverbial wall coaxes the player to move forward
....
Once you move to the right far enough, you’ll cause the screen to scroll forward. At this point, you may try to backtrack, at which point you’ll discover the scrolling is “ratchet” style — it moves forward at the player’s discretion, but it won’t double back. This is a more expansive game than Mario Bros. by far, but it’s still limited. You still have a singular focus: Get to the other end of the stage before time runs out. The one-way progression allows for some tough choices and nasty tricks along the way as well. But for now, it simply keeps you on track.
....
Once you begin scrolling the screen ahead, you find your first few details in the world: Some floating bricks, and a small mushroom-like enemy that walks slowly toward you. Mixed in with the bricks are a number of blocks featuring flashing question marks. A Mario Bros. player should be drawn, instinctively, to act here: Punch the Question Blocks, just like they did the POW Block in the previous game. But for the newcomer, the enemy — a Goomba — provides a clue, and incentive. It’s timed to catch up to Mario right around the time the player should have guided Mario to a point right beneath the first Question Block. Like the fireball in Donkey Kong and Hadoukens in Street Fighter, the Goomba becomes a catalyst forcing the player to react. If you don’t jump the Goomba, Mario will die.

Chances are that for the first-time player, Mario will die anyway. If you don’t time the jump right, or if you smack Mario’s head against the Question Block and kill the arc of his jump, the Goomba will walk right into him. But hey, lesson learned either way, right? Punch the Question Block and a coin pops out; smoosh the Goomba by jumping on top of it and a point tally floats up. In both cases, you’re given an indication of a reward — though unlike the Goomba, the coin increments both your score and a separate coin counter, with a cash register chime to indicate some sort of greater value than mere points.

...

With the Goomba dead or avoided and the “hit me” essentiality of Question Blocks confirmed, the player moves on to the second portion of the block formation. The bricks do nothing but bounce when struck, but the leftmost Question Block — the first you’ll hit — yields a new prize, a Mushroom. It slides to the right along the bricks, drops to the ground, rebounds off the pipe, and slides to the left along the ground.

You can snag the mushroom at any time before it slides off the screen, but you can also screw it up. If you get overly zealous and immediately hit the lower-right Question Block, there’s a pretty good chance the upward motion of the reacting Question Block will glancingly strike the mushroom and send it bounding immediately to the left. This placement is surely not accidental; you can survive the loss of a mushroom here, so bouncing it away offers another of those Super Mario hard life lessons.

Whether or not you manage to snag the mushroom, this block formation also clues you into the fact that despite Super Mario‘s emphasis on horizontal movement through the stage it still retains some elements of Mario Bros.: To hit that upper block, you have to use the lower blocks as a platform. (Hence the genre’s name.)
 
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