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Giant Bomb X | Built-In Automatic Death Thing For Secret People

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Keep it posi. Minus Alex playing the character of DebbieDowner, its a positive and fun site.
I come to GB to be entertained, I play games to be entertained. Feels to me that GB is curating entertaining podcasts and videos.
Well, the thing with being a personality driven website is that when they don't express their opinion on something, I wonder how much of the personality is a facade.

I guess if they just want to be the new G4/Adam Sessler, then fine. I suppose that's preferable to the Marcus Beer/Ben Kuchera school of journalistic antagonism.
 

Zomba13

Member
I don't get how not having an internet person say "Don't be a scumbag asshole" means they are infact ok or neutral on the whole thing.

Do we really need every person who goes on the internet and writes about games or makes videos about games to come out and say "Hey guys, don't be an asshole to other people because they are women ok?". I mean, that's fucking basic human decency.

Obviously providing coverage of it or discussing it and how fucked up it is (like Patrick and Alex do) can help bring it to a wider audience and show how hard it can be for a woman in this industry full of immature sub-humans but not specifically calling it out doesn't mean you are "neutral" on it. The "neutral" viewpoint of this is that it is fucking disgusting behaviour that no one in the industry should have to go through regardless of whether you have a vagina or a penis or whatever else.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
The problem with the GG thread thing is this. Whenever you get these threads on places like Giant Bomb, you get the posters who say, 'Why does this site only cover one side and not both?' even though several sites tried to do that in the earlier stages of this. The problem is that your moniker, your tag, your whatever has now been associated with death threats, horrible sexism, and some vile human beings. Sorry if that's what the movement wasn't originally about, but that's my point.

Start over. The tag you wanted to pursue, that may or may not have been the discussion in the first place, is now only seen as these attacks on peoples private lives. Whether it was bad eggs ruining the batch or if it was always rotten, anyone who wants to seriously discuss things like the potential for bias caused by relations of any kind between game journalists and game developers would have realized this GG isn't the way to do it anymore because the name is too evocative.
 
Alright, Giant Bomb has addressed it. Problem solved I guess. Harassment on the internet officially over.

Wait, no, that's probably not true. Matter of fact, probably just gonna keep getting worse before it gets better.

edit - If #gamersgate wants to change their image they should change their hashtag to something #arthurgiesisaterriblereviewer, that way no one could misunderstand the purpose of their crusade.
 

Zomba13

Member
Im sorry, but what is happening with giant bomb, patrick and Wu?

My understanding: Wu was on MSNBC or somethign and called out how sites like IGN or GB, run by men, are "neutral" on the subject and not reporting on it or mentioning it and therefore making it seem like they are OK with the horrible stuff going on but actually Patrick and Alex discussed the thing on the morning show and have been outspoken about it in the past (Patrick is after all the secret ringleader of the secret games industry social justice warrior cabal that the people making these death trheats are fighting against).

Alright, Giant Bomb has addressed it. Problem solved I guess. Harassment on the internet officially over.

Wait, no, that's probably not true. Matter of fact, probably just gonna keep getting worse before it gets better.

edit - If #gamersgate wants to change their image they should change their hashtag to something #arthurgiesisaterriblereviewer, that way no one could misunderstand the purpose of their crusade.

You know #arthurgiesisaterriblereviewer is a campaign I could get behind.
 

Myggen

Member
Im sorry, but what is happening with giant bomb, patrick and Wu?

Not much. Wu called out GB along with IGN for being male dominated etc. on MSNBC. Patrick and Alex talked about her harassment on Bombin' before she went on MSNBC/CNN, and Patrick wrote an article about it too. Wu then said on Twitter that she wished she knew about Patrick/Alex discussing the issue earlier today before she called GB out, and said that she believed Patrick when he said that the article wasn't a direct reaction to her calling GB out (which wouldn't really have mattered anyway, I'm guessing). So it's all good between them.
 

Seventy70

Member
The people that are idiots will be idiots. No amount of articles or discussion will change that. They won't change unless they make the choice themselves. Other than that there is nothing anyone else can do.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
But #arthurgiesisaterriblereviewer is a legitimate cause.

Donate to my 24 hour Extra Life stream of making Arthur Gies wear a dumb hat for a week.
 
She called them out for not addressing GG on news programs.
The talked about GG on the latest podcast and Patrick wrote an article.
It's all a coincidence.

Shouldn't be a surprise, she also basically called out Giant Bomb as sexist back when they didn't give Tomb Raider a slot in the GOTY list.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
The people that are idiots will be idiots. No amount of articles or discussion will change that. They won't change unless they make the choice themselves. Other than that there is nothing anyone else can do.
So when that Penny Arcade anti-trans thing happened, I think GB was mostly silent on the issue. That's their prerogative.

But Carolyn Petit (and I think Arthur Gies) spoke out about it as a representative of GS, and brought the issue to light as something that shouldn't be brushed under the rug. Ultimately it led to an apology of sorts and if nothing else, the issue is much more prevalent than if it was completely ignored.

I guess the question is what responsibility do you have to social progress if you have a platform? Are you going to be E! and just report "fun" stuff about games, or are you going to be the Daily Show and mix celebrity interviews with political news?

Shouldn't be a surprise, she also basically called out Giant Bomb as sexist back when they didn't give Tomb Raider a slot in the GOTY list.
Really? That's insane. It's really terrible when people take a sensitive issue and exploit it for their own purposes.
Now that's just crazy.

(Everyone knows that SR3 losing to that crap Skyrim is the real injustice, etc etc).
 
Well, the thing with being a personality driven website is that when they don't express their opinion on something, I wonder how much of the personality is a facade.

I guess if they just want to be the new G4/Adam Sessler, then fine. I suppose that's preferable to the Marcus Beer/Ben Kuchera school of journalistic antagonism.

Not me.

Jeff expresses plenty of opinion and almost the right amount; I know what kind of shooters he likes, how Forza taught him to like the racing genre, Brad's all or nothing gaming, Drew's love for simulators and Ryan's love for the stupid/absurd. I don't want to know about their SO, their political stance, you know, non-gaming/non entertaining stuff (food or other entertainment being the exception).
 

Sakwoff

Member
Shouldn't be a surprise, she also basically called out Giant Bomb as sexist back when they didn't give Tomb Raider a slot in the GOTY list.

Yeah, use that to denounce her now. That's what GB would want, surely.

It was a case of bad timing. If they hadn't reported on this, the callout would have been absolutely justified.

To be fair, the frontpage article was indeed kind of lttp, but I know that there are probably reasons for this. Taking a stand is not always easy when you're working under corporate overhead.
 

Zomba13

Member
So when that Penny Arcade anti-trans thing happened, I think GB was mostly silent on the issue. That's their prerogative.

But Carolyn Petit (and I think Arthur Gies) spoke out about it as a representative of GS, and brought the issue to light as something that shouldn't be brushed under the rug. Ultimately it led to an apology of sorts and if nothing else, the issue is much more prevalent than if it was completely ignored.

I guess the question is what responsibility do you have to social progress if you have a platform? Are you going to be E! and just report "fun" stuff about games, or are you going to be the Daily Show and mix celebrity interviews with political news?

In that case though it was a site that that had it's own responsibility that did the wrong doing and now a bunch of no name, random idiots on twitter. If you call out each and every one of the people doing this horrible stuff not one of them will apologise, all you will do is give them a bigger platform to spread their hate. They will know that if they keep spouting shit on twitter then maybe IGN or GS or Polygon will use their tweet in an article, maybe some other idiots will follow them and retweet their hateful speech.

It's all well and good calling out the thing collectively and reporting on these women who are affected and their side of this but trying to shame or get an apology out of the sub-humans doing this will result in nothing but more publicity for their hate speech.

Guys, I hate people. Seriously. Being in the industry must be severely depressing.

I think it's less about the game indusrty and more human beings in general. For every nice, kind and lovely person there are two hateful, nasty, disgusting people. It just so happens that gaming is the most "technologically advanced" medium and so more of the nasty people that like it are better equipped to use things like twitter or to DDOS or social engineer their way into peoples accounts or to use dirty tricks and lookup peoples personal information and spread it around.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Not me.

Jeff expresses plenty of opinion and almost the right amount; I know what kind of shooters he likes, how Forza taught him to like the racing genre, Brad's all or nothing gaming, Drew's love for simulators and Ryan's love for the stupid/absurd. I don't want to know about their SO, their political stance, you know, non-gaming/non entertaining stuff (food or other entertainment being the exception).

I'm saying the empty shirt personality is more interesting than the Bill O'Reilly/Glenn Beck stance that some other journalists take.

But there's also not much depth there either. And I'm not saying I need to hear about their opinions on everything, but there are times when issues about games come up that they could take a position on but they usually don't bring it up at all.

Like, they are almost linked to PAX and PAX East now, but I don't think I know their opinion on "Dick Wolves" or the anti-trans stuff that Mike said. I'm not asking them to boycott PAX or anything silly like that, but at least GS had an opinion on the issue even if they still went to cover the conventions.

In that case though it was a site that that had it's own responsibility that did the wrong doing and now a bunch of no name, random idiots on twitter. If you call out each and every one of the people doing this horrible stuff not one of them will apologise, all you will do is give them a bigger platform to spread their hate. They will know that if they keep spouting shit on twitter then maybe IGN or GS or Polygon will use their tweet in an article, maybe some other idiots will follow them and retweet their hateful speech.

It's all well and good calling out the thing collectively and reporting on these women who are affected and their side of this but trying to shame or get an apology out of the sub-humans doing this will result in nothing but more publicity for their hate speech.
Well, they obviously can't address every single person directly, but they also could at least acknowledge that this is an event happening in the gaming industry right?
 

Zomba13

Member
Well, they obviously can't address every single person directly, but they also could at least acknowledge that this is an event happening in the gaming industry right?

And they have via Patrick. Patrick is a GB employee and the one they hired to focus on news and current events.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
And they have via Patrick. Patrick is a GB employee and the one they hired to focus on news and current events.
Sure, but he's also in a position where he seems like he is alone, because he is literally physically working in a location that is isolated from the rest of the crew.

All they need to do is say on a live show or a podcast "We agree with Patrick on the latest news" and acknowledge that they are aware that the events exist and that they have an opinion on the issue. It's a 3+ hour show... so a 1 minute line shouldn't be too much, I would hope.
 

sixghost

Member
Originally started as a games journalism ethics argument (some game dev girl slept with some guy who writes for Kotaku. He wrote articles about said girl's game, etc). Articles written by the press claiming "gamers" over, due to some gamers' reactions to said story. Dumbasses co-opted it and use it to harass people who agree with said article, etc.

The Leigh Alexander article is the most confusing part. What does gamers being over even mean, and why are people mad about it.
 
I'm saying the empty shirt personality is more interesting than the Bill O'Reilly/Glenn Beck stance that some other journalists take.

But there's also not much depth there either. And I'm not saying I need to hear about their opinions on everything, but there are times when issues about games come up that they could take a position on but they usually don't bring it up at all.

Like, they are almost linked to PAX and PAX East now, but I don't think I know their opinion on "Dick Wolves" or the anti-trans stuff that Mike said. I'm not asking them to boycott PAX or anything silly like that, but at least GS had an opinion on the issue even if they still went to cover the conventions.


Well, they obviously can't address every single person directly, but they also could at least acknowledge that this is an event happening in the gaming industry right?

Because its none of our business. We don't need to know their opinion on this stuff. GG is a mess of poopy people being poopy. Thats all I can parse from it. Announcing that poo is smelly isn't exactly the coverage I want on an entertainment site. Unless Lang makes a fighting game involved throwing poop (using the Yoshi shoot mechanic)
 

Myggen

Member
Sure, but he's also in a position where he seems like he is alone, because he is literally physically working in a location that is isolated from the rest of the crew.

All they need to do is say on a live show or a podcast "We agree with Patrick on the latest news" and acknowledge that they are aware that the events exist and that they have an opinion on the issue. It's a 3+ hour show... so a 1 minute line shouldn't be too much, I would hope.

But does his physical location matter? They're an editorial team, he doesn't publish an article like that without running it by at least Jeff. I think it's pretty much implied that the others stand behind an article about a subject like that without them having to write "by the Giant Bomb staff" instead of "by Patrick Klepek". But again, I agree that it would be nice for it to be mentioned on the Bombcast.
 
I'm saying the empty shirt personality is more interesting than the Bill O'Reilly/Glenn Beck stance that some other journalists take.

But there's also not much depth there either. And I'm not saying I need to hear about their opinions on everything, but there are times when issues about games come up that they could take a position on but they usually don't bring it up at all.

Like, they are almost linked to PAX and PAX East now, but I don't think I know their opinion on "Dick Wolves" or the anti-trans stuff that Mike said. I'm not asking them to boycott PAX or anything silly like that, but at least GS had an opinion on the issue even if they still went to cover the conventions.


Well, they obviously can't address every single person directly, but they also could at least acknowledge that this is an event happening in the gaming industry right?

Giant Bomb is not that site, though. Jeff and co. barely consider themselves journalists. I can only speak for myself, but I visit the site to watch entertaining content driven by their personalities. Frankly, I don't want Giant Bomb to become a site that focuses on things like GG, the PAX stuff, etc. I have a ton of sites I can and do visit for that.
 

bender

What time is it?
Sure, but he's also in a position where he seems like he is alone, because he is literally physically working in a location that is isolated from the rest of the crew.

All they need to do is say on a live show or a podcast "We agree with Patrick on the latest news" and acknowledge that they are aware that the events exist and that they have an opinion on the issue. It's a 3+ hour show... so a 1 minute line shouldn't be too much, I would hope.

It's probably not the best platform since it is a subscriber only feature but maybe someone could ask Jeff his thoughts for one of the Jar Time episodes.
 

Zomba13

Member
Sure, but he's also in a position where he seems like he is alone, because he is literally physically working in a location that is isolated from the rest of the crew.

All they need to do is say on a live show or a podcast "We agree with Patrick on the latest news" and acknowledge that they are aware that the events exist and that they have an opinion on the issue. It's a 3+ hour show... so a 1 minute line shouldn't be too much, I would hope.

Sure it wouldn't be too much and wouldn't alter or affect the show or podcast at all but does it really need to be said? I mean, of course they aren't ok with it and are aware of it. Jeff and the West Coast team aren't heartless monsters (well, I mean, apart from Brad. He likes DOTA and he made Jeff to the Destiny Raid so I dunno about him).

I just think that the "neutral" stance on this isn't one of acceptance but of derision. No normal, sane human being thinks this stuff is ok and pointing it out just seems pointless. It'd be like them taking a minute out on a podcast to say "Yo guys, Jeff here, racism and homophobia is straight up bullshit. Don't do it. It's bad.".
 
The Leigh Alexander article is the most confusing part. What does gamers being over even mean, and why are people mad about it.

Typical attempt to re-define a term that has a certain meaning and connotation as a form of branding anyone you don't like with a sweeping generalization. Didn't help that one of the main complaints of GG is the seeming echo chamber amongst the news sites, and then several articles with the same exact argument pop up in a short period of time. Alexander's just had the most incendiary language.
 

bonercop

Member
I don't want to know about their SO, their political stance, you know, non-gaming/non entertaining stuff (food or other entertainment being the exception).

Neither do I, really. Bur I don't see how speaking out against gamergate is non-gaming related. They've covered similar stories in the past.
It shows she has a history of unfairly calling out Giant Bomb.

This time wasn't unfair, though. yeah, the tomb raider comment was dumb, but it has nothing to do with the point she made this time around.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
This feels strange because at least I've always felt that Patrick has been speaking out about this for a long time. I guess people think it's not enough? I just read someone on twitter accuse Jeff and CBSi of holding Patrick back from talking about this whole situation.
 
Yes. But don't see how that matters here.

If someone has a history of stretching to make an accusation against a particular party, it absolutely casts a shadow on future critique. I'm re-reading the piece right now (https://medium.com/the-magazine/goty-2013-badass-girls-need-not-apply-1b56d8c8a1fb) and she takes 2 lines from the GOTY deliberations, misinterpets the meaning of "Most Surprising" (which she later clarified at the bottom) and turns it into an entire piece of about how problematic it is that video gaming is a boys club.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Sure it wouldn't be too much and wouldn't alter or affect the show or podcast at all but does it really need to be said? I mean, of course they aren't ok with it and are aware of it. Jeff and the West Coast team aren't heartless monsters (well, I mean, apart from Brad. He likes DOTA and he made Jeff to the Destiny Raid so I dunno about him).

I just think that the "neutral" stance on this isn't one of acceptance but of derision. No normal, sane human being thinks this stuff is ok and pointing it out just seems pointless. It'd be like them taking a minute out on a podcast to say "Yo guys, Jeff here, racism and homophobia is straight up bullshit. Don't do it. It's bad.".
Well, Ryan literally did just that when he used a slur during a live stream.

It's probably not the best platform since it is a subscriber only feature but maybe someone could ask Jeff his thoughts for one of the Jar Time episodes.
I guess that's true. I never think to send in a question for that though.

Giant Bomb is not that site, though. Jeff and co. barely consider themselves journalists. I can only speak for myself, but I visit the site to watch entertaining content driven by their personalities. Frankly, I don't want Giant Bomb to become a site that focuses on things like GG, the PAX stuff, etc. I have a ton of sites I can and do visit for that.
I just think GG probably deserves as much coverage as AC:U being 900p. I think GB is the only game site I care about now since GS let people go last month, so I would actually want to know what they think about some of these issues that are in the news.

But does his physical location matter? They're an editorial team, he doesn't publish an article like that without running it by at least Jeff. I think it's pretty much implied that the others stand behind an article about a subject like that without them having to write "by the Giant Bomb staff" instead of "by Patrick Klepek". But again, I agree that it would be nice for it to be mentioned on the Bombcast.
I think it does inasmuch as there is a sort of silo between what Patrick writes/produces and the rest of the site. The fact that Jeff seems to hate Skype and Patrick will never be on the Bombcast unless he's physically in SF is another thing that contributes to that.

Because its none of our business. We don't need to know their opinion on this stuff. GG is a mess of poopy people being poopy. Thats all I can parse from it. Announcing that poo is smelly isn't exactly the coverage I want on an entertainment site. Unless Lang makes a fighting game involved throwing poop (using the Yoshi shoot mechanic)
Why can't you have both? I think John Oliver, Stephen Colbert, and Jon Stewart are both funny and insightful at the same time. You can be entertaining and still contribute to a conversation.
 

erawsd

Member
So when that Penny Arcade anti-trans thing happened, I think GB was mostly silent on the issue. That's their prerogative.

But Carolyn Petit (and I think Arthur Gies) spoke out about it as a representative of GS, and brought the issue to light as something that shouldn't be brushed under the rug. Ultimately, it led to an apology of sorts and if nothing else, the issue is much more prevalent than if it was completely ignored.

I guess the question is what responsibility do you have to social progress if you have a platform? Are you going to be E! and just report "fun" stuff about games, or are you going to be the Daily Show and mix celebrity interviews with political news?

The difference is that the Penny Arcade thing happened with an actual person that has to deal with the consequences of his words. GG is just a bunch faceless twitter/reddit/4chan users who cannot be reasoned with, whose only goal is to destroy anyone that disagrees, and is fully aware of the fact that they can say and do anything to accomplish that with zero consequence.
 

Myggen

Member
@dannyodwyer · 33 minutes ago
Langcast recorded. Now, does anyone know the name of the intro song we use from AudioNetwork because I can't remember.... :/
@dannyodwyer · 32 minutes ago
Also we talk about Sochi for like 5 minutes. It's mostly about attending races, running a video game company and hotel prices.

Hope this goes up before I go to bed.

This feels strange because at least I've always felt that Patrick has been speaking out about this for a long time. I guess people think it's not enough? I just read someone on twitter accuse Jeff and CBSi of holding Patrick back from talking about this whole situation.

If you search long enough, you'll find every single conspiracy theory on Twitter.
 

kingocfs

Member
Jeff wrote an extensive letter about similar sentiments in July. Patrick wrote about it, Patrick and Alex talked about. Give it a rest.
 
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