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[The Librarian]

Don't strawman me, you care enough to judge them for it that much is obvious.

Then don't tell me what I think. I cannot care and call people stupid for doing something.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Wait, tattoos are stupid to you? Um...why? There's nothing inherently wrong with them.

 

[Devolution]

Then don't tell me what I think. I cannot care and call people stupid for doing something.

I'm not telling you what you think, I'm calling you judgmental. Deal with it.

 

[The Librarian]

Wait, tattoos are stupid to you? Um...why? There's nothing inherently wrong with them.

There's nothing wrong with them (unless you get something that's really offensive), they're just pointless is all, and I think they look stupid.

I'm not telling you what you think, I'm calling you judgmental. Deal with it.

I know! I'm being so judgmental! I go up to at least one women every day to tell her she shouldn't bare her breasts or otherwise she's stupid.

 

[Devolution]

I know! I'm being so judgmental! I go up to at least one women every day to tell her she shouldn't bare her breasts or otherwise she's stupid.

Keep up the hyperbole, it really helps your position.

 

[The Librarian]

Keep up the hyperbole, it really helps your position.

You keep up with the nonsense accusations; it really helps yours.

 

[EviLore]

I know! I'm being so judgmental!

Err, yes, you characterized the whole group as stupid for engaging in public nudity:

Because women are people and people can be stupid.

 

[The Librarian]

Err, yes, you characterized the whole group as stupid for engaging in public nudity:

Oops. That's a typo (or, rather, a mistake). See here:

What's with the question mark? I think people who do that are being stupid, but I don't really care.

Being stupid/are stupid are two different things.

 

[Devolution]

Oops. That's a typo (or, rather, a mistake). See here:


Being stupid/are stupid are two different things.

Quite the semantics now.

 

[The Librarian]

Quite the semantics now.

What semantics? Smart people can do stupid things. Saying "You're being stupid" or "You're doing something I think is stupid" is different from saying, "You are stupid."

 

[Devolution]

What semantics? Smart people can do stupid things. Saying "You're being stupid" is different from saying, "You are stupid."

It's still judgmental with either word usage.

 

[The Librarian]

It's still judgmental with either word usage.

Depends on the context, and in this case I'd say it isn't.

 

[Ashes]

Um your partner doesn't own your body. You can discuss with them your views on nudity but ultimately it's your decision.

Fair point. But I don't think one is best suited to live in a vacuum. Partner's opinions matter to me to a certain extent. Sure, it's best to find one with similar views on subjects, but that by itself is admission, that views on nudity can matter.

Honestly speaking, if I was with a girl, and a guy on the street, said: Show us your tits love, and she told him to get lost. I wouldn't berate her and say: oh you should stop being so uptight about nudity.

hmm.. Ok that's not a analogous example. I'll come up with a better example later.

And on a separate point, I guess you can - not care - about a subject and find it stupid. E.g. lots of people don't care about sport, and find sports fans stupid.

 

[Devolution]

Fair point. But I don't think one is best suited to live in a vacuum. Partner's opinions matter to me to a certain extent. Sure, it's best to find one with similar views on subjects, but that by itself is admission, that views on nudity can matter.

Honestly speaking, if I was with a girl, and a guy on the street, said: Show us your tits love, and she told him to get lost. I wouldn't berate her and say: oh you should stop being so uptight about nudity.

hmm.. Ok that's not a analogous example. I'll come up with a better example later.

And on a separate point, I guess you can - not care - about a subject and find it stupid. E.g. lots of people don't care about sport, and find sports fans stupid.

Um no one is soliciting anything in this thread. These people are exposing their nudity of their own free will. Some other people want to know why? There are probably tons of reasons and motivations. I don't think any of it is "stupid" and I find it pretty judgmental to qualify it as such.

Your comparison doesn't make any sense. I'm not telling people how they should feel personally about nudity and exposing themselves. I'm saying it's judgmental when you see others who are nude and call them or their actions stupid.

People who consider themselves feminists should be the last people shaming other women for exposing their bodies. If you don't want to, cool, I don't either. Just no reason to be so judgmental and immature about it.

 

[Ashes]

Ahh I see your viewpoint clearer now. I don't necessarily agree, but I can see sense in it.

 

[Femmeworth]

Saw this posted in the stupid question thread. Thoughts?

This falls in the category of things I'm not sure how I feel about, like cam models. (Well, I do know my knee-jerk reaction.) It's definitely problematic, but is it enough to outweigh the benefit? Certainly there has to be a better of way of expressing yourself like that.

Edit: Looking closer, this particular avenue for such expression is much better than 4chan.

 

[Junpei Heat]

This falls in the category of things I'm not sure how I feel about, like cam models. (Well, I do know my knee-jerk reaction.) It's definitely problematic, but is it enough to outweigh the benefit? Certainly there has to be a better of way of expressing yourself like that.

Edit: Looking closer, this particular avenue for such expression is much better than 4chan.

How is this problematic?

 

[EviLore]

How is this problematic?

Check out Femmeworth's Guide to Feminism. Very useful tool for determining what is and isn't PROBLEMATIC.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

.

 

[Devolution]

You can classify your own actions as stupid because you know what was motivating you and how you consider it in the context of your own life. If people want to get naked it's not really up to me to judge 'em for it.

 

[trab pu kcip]

Um no one is soliciting anything in this thread. These people are exposing their nudity of their own free will. Some other people want to know why? There are probably tons of reasons and motivations. I don't think any of it is "stupid" and I find it pretty judgmental to qualify it as such.

Your comparison doesn't make any sense. I'm not telling people how they should feel personally about nudity and exposing themselves. I'm saying it's judgmental when you see others who are nude and call them or their actions stupid.

People who consider themselves feminists should be the last people shaming other women for exposing their bodies. If you don't want to, cool, I don't either. Just no reason to be so judgmental and immature about it.

I couldn't agree more. I actually just had a similar debate concerning the topless protest by femen and pretty much said the exact same thing. women should feel free to handle this kinda stuff just how they want to.
in this context: [
[/URL]

 

[Devolution]

Edit: Lin raised a good point. While I was referring to the people on the reddit board, on the topic of camgirls, some women do it to pay their bills. Though why they choose that avenue rather than more... legitimate avenues could be discussed. It's easier, for one, requires no particular talent. You make a ton of money doing it. Those are perks. I suppose some women do it for those reasons alone, though I suspect those women probably don't feel particularly good about it. Though I'm sure others don't give it much thought. Others still probably really enjoy it.

That's the trouble with these conversations. You can't pin it down to any one thing. People are people and as long as there's sexual desire there are going to be people exhibiting it publicly.

Some people just like showing off or having sex on cam. And bless them.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

.

 

[Devolution]

If you read my post, I'm pretty sure I knew what my motivations were and I said it. I don't know about these other people though, and I don't claim to know. I have a few ideas and I'm sure all of them are valid to a degree. Yours is too. Some people just want to fuck and it makes them hot to get naked on camera. I get it. Not judging it unless the people themselves are obnoxious.

Obnoxious people are the ones who tell us we're prudes if we personally don't want to show all of our stuff. Now those people can fuck right off.

 

[freenudemacusers]

NSFW
[/URL]

amazing

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

BTW I'm sure a lot of the shit posted on that reddit is stolen from women who were sending nudes to people they know. Maybe not though. Eh, I dunno.

Obnoxious people are the ones who tell us we're prudes if we personally don't want to show all of our stuff. Now those people can fuck right off.

There's something we can both agree on.

Going out for sushi. Maybe some gyoza. I need to calm my nerves. Shit just blew up at my apartment and I need rainbowroll.

 

[EviLore]

Great link, but against the ToS. Using a NSFW disclaimer does not absolve it from the rules.

 

[trab pu kcip]

I'm sorry I thought it would be okay as long as it's not a direct post :/ I'm going to read the ToS again...

 

[Devolution]

BTW I'm sure a lot of the shit posted on that reddit is fake too. Or stolen from women who were sending nudes to people they know. Maybe not though. Eh, I dunno.

Probably but it's impossible to know one way or the other. Scummy people are the worst.

 

[EviLore]

I'm sorry I thought it would be okay as long as it's not a direct post :/ I'm going to read the ToS again...

Ideally the rules would be entirely a product of my own positions, but for the site to stay free it needs advertising, and to have mainstream advertising and not porn advertising it needs to conform to internet censorship standards. Thus, we blur things out in the Femen thread and only link to the news article which then has uncensored photos a few layers deeper, to be safe.

It's stupid, I know, since we should be able to distinguish sexualized content from non-sexualized content, but that's not how it works in effect. Fortunately it's only problematic (!!!) on occasion.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

.

 

[Femmeworth]

Check out Femmeworth's Guide to Feminism. Very useful tool for determining what is and isn't PROBLEMATIC.

Hardy har har.

It isn't. Can models exist because they need to pay rent. Men will pay to see you naked, nothing new. Exploit that if you want but if you don't, don't guilt trip women who do. It is one step away from slut shaming That comes from some weird idyllic rose petal of an utopia not called Earth where women don't have desires, needs, bills to pay, and are supposed to be perfect little roses who don't show their naughty bits.

Clearly the pursuit of money justifies everything. People can accuse me of making things black and white, yet they do it themselves.

 

[trab pu kcip]

Ideally the rules would be entirely a product of my own positions, but for the site to stay free it needs advertising, and to have mainstream advertising and not porn advertising it needs to conform to internet censorship standards. Thus, we blur things out in the Femen thread and only link to the news article which then has uncensored photos a few layers deeper, to be safe.

It's stupid, I know, since we should be able to distinguish sexualized content from non-sexualized content, but that's not how it works in effect. Fortunately it's only problematic (!!!) on occasion.

that actually makes sense, I'll keep it in mind, thanks for explaining! would it be okay to censor the boobs and reupload the image?

 

[Devolution]

Clearly the pursuit of money justifies everything. People can accuse me of making things black and white, yet they do it themselves.

That's distilling her argument down quite a bit.

 

[Femmeworth]

That's distilling her argument down quite a bit.

Okay, pursuit of needs.

 

[Junpei Heat]

Okay, pursuit of needs.

You still haven't said why you think this is problematic. Unless I really should give Evilore's link a good read.

 

[Femmeworth]

You still haven't said why you think this is problematic. Unless I really should give Evilore's link a good read.

It opens them up to harassment. Such public posting could have negative social ramifications for them in the short or long term. They are sexually objectifying themselves. Reddit's voting system pits them against each other.

To reiterate myself, I see the benefit in having avenues of expression such as this. I'm not totally against it.

 

[Devolution]

It opens them up to harassment. Such public posting could have negative social ramifications for them in the short or long term. They are sexually objectifying themselves. Reddit's voting system pits them against each other.

To reiterate myself, I see the benefit in having avenues of expression such as this. I'm not totally against it.

I'm not really sure the same wouldn't happen to nude males. A bunch of women just aren't clamoring for it.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Damn, I opened up a can of worms. :/

Didn't know this was a touchy subject.

Was just really curious. :x

 

[Platy]

I lived with a girl who posted pics of herself nude (without face) on the internet.

She said she was feeling almost disphoric with her body and doing this was an act of "reclaiming her body" and the courage to post it made her feel good with herself enoght to share with others. She also used the expression "THIS SHIT IS EMPOWERING AS HELL".

So we probably see more women do this because it is more common to find a men who don't need empowering and already own their body since society focus on "cover youself if you are not skinny to starvation with huge pronstar boobs" is much bigger on women

 

[Ashes]

I think it's short sighted and irresponsible for obvious reasons, especially if you can be easily identified in the pictures.

A lot of different people have a lot of different reasons for doing the things they do. I'm sure some of them trip on the idea that they're being lusted after by people. That right there could be broken down into a dozen different subsets of reasons why they would do it. Maybe they have low self esteem and they feel like this validates them somehow. Maybe they're just horny and reckless? I don't know. I can't say for each individual person.

I can't judge them too harshly. I used to do stupid shit all the time when I was a young teenager. I never posted naked pictures of myself, but I did post a lot of pictures in general. I was really naive and stupid. Some of the old timers on here could probably attest to that since a lot of my shenanigans went down on these very boards. I think I just had really low self esteem and a part of me wanted to be complimented/validated. It all feels really stupid now. In retrospect by parents should have kept a better eye on me on the internet way back when. Also I probably should have talked to a therapist. I'm over it now at least.

Aaaaaanyway. I hardly see how you guys should single these women out. Like I said, it might not be the most constructive thing you can do unless you don't care about your reputation. Then again what say you to the torrents of guys jacking off on omegle/chat roulette at this very moment.

Edit: Lin raised a good point. While I was referring to the people on the reddit board, on the topic of camgirls, some women do it to pay their bills. Though why they choose that avenue rather than more... legitimate avenues could be discussed. It's easier, for one, requires no particular talent. You make a ton of money doing it. Those are perks. I suppose some women do it for those reasons alone, though I suspect those women probably don't feel particularly good about it. Though I'm sure others don't give it much thought. Others still probably really enjoy it.

That's the trouble with these conversations. You can't pin it down to any one thing. People are people and as long as there's sexual desire there are going to be people exhibiting it publicly.

Hmm... The reputation comment is interesting. If you want to work for a reputable company, then it's in your best interests not to have nude photos on such websites.

A company can legitimately fire you for bringing the firm into disrepute. e.g. Lawyer firms, and definitely my own company (media research), even more so for the parent one (well media research conglomerate).

The other point is that in the UK, we have a national newspaper, that anyone of any age can buy, and for all suits and purposes, is a family newspaper, where everyday, on page 3, there is a glamour model with her tits out. No censorship or nothing because it's the Uk's best selling tabloid, the Sun. < this point is in relation to what Evilore said about advertising.

The funny thing is, traditional modelling companies, only need a model to shoot one of these 'glamour model' pics, and you're off the books. You won't get hired. But like.. it's not very rare for supermodels to appear nude or near nude in some artistic poses...

 

[Emitan]

I personally do not want to do so (and I'd imagine the number of people who find me attractive is very small) but I have no issue with women (or men for that matter) doing so.

 

[SpacedCadette]

Nothing against it. Though, I think some girls need to be more careful about it if for nothing else other than protecting their identity. As we all have heard and know: what goes on the Internet, stays on the Internet. It's very hard to remove something once you've released it into the wild.

 

[The Librarian]

I think it's short sighted and irresponsible for obvious reasons, especially if you can be easily identified in the pictures.

A lot of different people have a lot of different reasons for doing the things they do. I'm sure some of them trip on the idea that they're being lusted after by people. That right there could be broken down into a dozen different subsets of reasons why they would do it. Maybe they have low self esteem and they feel like this validates them somehow. Maybe they're just horny and reckless? I don't know. I can't say for each individual person.

I can't judge them too harshly. I used to do stupid shit all the time when I was a young teenager. I never posted naked pictures of myself, but I did post a lot of pictures in general. I was really naive and stupid. Some of the old timers on here could probably attest to that since a lot of my shenanigans went down on these very boards. I think I just had really low self esteem and a part of me wanted to be complimented/validated. It all feels really stupid now. In retrospect by parents should have kept a better eye on me on the internet way back when. Also I probably should have talked to a therapist. I'm over it now at least.

Aaaaaanyway. I hardly see how you guys should single these women out. Like I said, it might not be the most constructive thing you can do unless you don't care about your reputation. Then again what say you to the torrents of guys jacking off on omegle/chat roulette at this very moment.

Edit: Lin raised a good point. While I was referring to the people on the reddit board, on the topic of camgirls, some women do it to pay their bills. Though why they choose that avenue rather than more... legitimate avenues could be discussed. It's easier, for one, requires no particular talent. You make a ton of money doing it. Those are perks. I suppose some women do it for those reasons alone, though I suspect those women probably don't feel particularly good about it. Though I'm sure others don't give it much thought. Others still probably really enjoy it.

That's the trouble with these conversations. You can't pin it down to any one thing. People are people and as long as there's sexual desire there are going to be people exhibiting it publicly.

This is kind of why I think it's stupid to do this. Going topless as a form of protest is something I don't think is stupid and is likely more understandable to everyone. Going topless for something like Girls Gone Wild, however, is what I think isn't too smart to do. You don't know who will end up seeing that footage or who will get their hands on it. It could very well come back and bite you in the butt later on.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

.

 

[Inanna]

I'm not telling you what you think, I'm calling you judgmental. Deal with it.

We are ALL judgmental to some extent, people who think that they aren't are just kidding themselves.

EDIT: Wasn't trying to add to the argument. just an observation, many people react so strongly to being called judgmental when in reality we are all a little bit depending on the topic.

 

[Platy]

The act of being nude in public very much depends on the context. I'm curious, where and for what amount of money would you pose nude in a public forum like a magazine or on stage?

I would do a tasteful nude scene if I were an actress on stage. I would pose in a fashion or art publication.


wouldn't pose in playboy for less than... Quite a lot of money. I wouldn't pose for Penthouse at all ever... maybe for a hundred million

There is never a "I would never do this" but actualy a "It would require an obscene amount of money for me to do this" xD

Everyone has a price for everything

 

[Ashes]

We are ALL judgmental to some extent, people who think that they aren't are just kidding themselves.

EDIT: Wasn't trying to add to the argument. just an observation, many people react so strongly to being called judgmental when in reality we are all a little bit depending on the topic.

Devolution judges people all the time. She's one of the most opinionated gaffers on this board.

 

[Devolution]

The act of being nude in public very much depends on the context. I'm curious, where and for what amount of money would you pose nude in a public forum like a magazine or on stage?

I would do a tasteful nude scene if I were an actress on stage. I would pose in a fashion or art publication.


wouldn't pose in playboy for less than... Quite a lot of money. I wouldn't pose for Penthouse at all ever... maybe for a hundred million

I honestly don't know.

We are ALL judgmental to some extent, people who think that they aren't are just kidding themselves.

EDIT: Wasn't trying to add to the argument. just an observation, many people react so strongly to being called judgmental when in reality we are all a little bit depending on the topic.

Of course we are and I pointed out. She wanted to deny it. Point?

 

[shanshan310]

This is kind of why I think it's stupid to do this. Going topless as a form of protest is something I don't think is stupid and is likely more understandable to everyone. Going topless for something like Girls Gone Wild, however, is what I think isn't too smart to do. You don't know who will end up seeing that footage or who will get their hands on it. It could very well come back and bite you in the butt later on.

I agree. It really bothers me how uptight people are about sex and nudity, and really we should be free to do whatever we want. But people you know finding out/ being stalked/ getting denied future opportunities/ whatever are all quite real possibilities. Honestly it kind of sounds fun. Stupid, but fun.