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GirlGAF |OT 2| Shall I Compare Thee to a Summer's Eve?
- Thread starter Devolution
- Start date
AdventureRacing
Member
If the cosplay looks anything like the lingerie being posted on this page i'm sure that will be real hard
.Edit: I might recommend that to my GF.
yes?
Deathmistress
Member
Not one bit. People do what they do, it doesn't necessarily define them.
Femmeworth
Banned
Is the question PopGAF exclusive?
Is the question PopGAF exclusive?
Booty Patrol
Banned
I'm not a girl and but kinda bothers me if someone refers to women as females, haha. I mean, you don't see people calling men males?
niece they are all willing to in this thread
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Hello PopGAF sistren
Gamescom
edit: wassup with so many girls all of a sudden using their rl picture as avatar?
Also, happy belated new year. Been off the grid for a while tucked away in Cheese and Chocolate land.
Arsenic Yellow
Member
Damn, I was traveling and totally missed the sailor moon talk. I'm terms of best scouts:
Pluto>Uranus>mercury/Jupiter>Neptune>Saturn>Moon>chibi moon>Venus>>>>>>Mars.
Pluto>Uranus>mercury/Jupiter>Neptune>Saturn>Moon>chibi moon>Venus>>>>>>Mars.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
this opinion is fucking dogshit
mars is the best one. anybody disputing that is just trying to be contrarian.
Princess Viola
Member
i never even watched sailor moon haha
top kek
shanshan310
Member
I wasn't a big fan of Mars either.
Same.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Jupiter #1
From the small amount I watched you're not missing anything, I didn't really like it :/.
And mainly transformers was on at the same time so I watched that instead.
Halogaf had one of their "arguments" again, I'm not sure what to make of it.
trab pu kcip
Member
Femmeworth
Banned
It might be important to distinguish dub Mars from the original (anime) Mars or any of the characters really.
Time to post a sassy .gif.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
But she's a badass.
trab pu kcip
Member
true dat
Arsenic Yellow
Member
Regardless, Everyone knows Utena is far better than any of the sailor moon ladies.
Edit: it would've been amazing if ikuhara could've had the same freedom with sailormoon that he has with utena.
Edit: it would've been amazing if ikuhara could've had the same freedom with sailormoon that he has with utena.
AdventureRacing
Member
Yeah fair comment, on reading that it was a bit of a silly post and i can see why it would be offensive. I wasn't meaning anything by it but yeah probably should put a little more thought into some posts.
Edit: Damn made it into the OP and everything lol. Well at least that shitty post became of some use.
TheHollowNight
Member
Hey GirlGAF.
I'm curious to get some feedback & opinions of the general consensus & state of female interest in the Videogames industry. As someone who's been in the professional industry for about 2+ years, The balance offset of female devs compared to males, is still pretty concerning to me. It's something I've spoken to with colleagues about in the past, but they were more generalized conversations about female representation within gaming; be that developers, journalists & gamers themselves.
Last year was particularly a hot potato, with lots of controversial attention being drawn to women in the field, simply for the fact that they were, well, women who had opinions & things. Anita Sarkeesian, Cara Ellison, Zoe Quinn etc etc, all receiving pretty vitriolic abuse from the community. It's something I've grown tired of fast, but something I've been thinking about quite a lot recently. I know it's pretty much stating the obvious to any self-respecting smart individual, but it's definitely a big stain that very large portions of the community feel at odds to acknowledge, or downright reject.
The main crux of this topic was triggered a couple of months back over a conversation I had with my dad. I had a huge argument with him about the current state of affairs in the industry, and he believes that these attitudes exist because women simply aren't as interested in videogames, or becoming developers...That it will never be a 50/50 working environment in the future, something which I was completely in disagreement with.
I feel that the lack of equilibrium in the industry is due to how video games have been marketed, exclusively targeting the male population from the start & alienating a lot of the potential female audiences with the tropes with see in games today. I get the general feeling that it's always secretly been this 'Boy's Club' & that mentality has stuck to this day, inside the workplace and inside the community. As Anita highlighted in one of her videos, male is considered default, and girls the exception/variable. The lack of appeal to girls has ended up causing this unusual poisonous cocktail where 'leave your politics out of my games!' becomes the go-to answer for a lot of people & it rarely feels like we're making any progress on the matter.
But the thing is, are my notions correct? Are women equally interested in videogames as men, or have the potential to be? If more women were incorporated into the game-o-sphere, would that actually help cause a shift to start broadening the scopes of how videogames are developed? Or are my reservations simply hoping for the best, of what I want to see? I'm genuinely interested in what everyone here thinks as it's one of the more pressing matters going into 2014. I hope that the current Indie renaissance helps influence the mainstream, since that's the area of games we are seeing that are actually acting progressively on eliminating these attitudes.
I apologize if this was a bit of a ramble
I'm curious to get some feedback & opinions of the general consensus & state of female interest in the Videogames industry. As someone who's been in the professional industry for about 2+ years, The balance offset of female devs compared to males, is still pretty concerning to me. It's something I've spoken to with colleagues about in the past, but they were more generalized conversations about female representation within gaming; be that developers, journalists & gamers themselves.
Last year was particularly a hot potato, with lots of controversial attention being drawn to women in the field, simply for the fact that they were, well, women who had opinions & things. Anita Sarkeesian, Cara Ellison, Zoe Quinn etc etc, all receiving pretty vitriolic abuse from the community. It's something I've grown tired of fast, but something I've been thinking about quite a lot recently. I know it's pretty much stating the obvious to any self-respecting smart individual, but it's definitely a big stain that very large portions of the community feel at odds to acknowledge, or downright reject.
The main crux of this topic was triggered a couple of months back over a conversation I had with my dad. I had a huge argument with him about the current state of affairs in the industry, and he believes that these attitudes exist because women simply aren't as interested in videogames, or becoming developers...That it will never be a 50/50 working environment in the future, something which I was completely in disagreement with.
I feel that the lack of equilibrium in the industry is due to how video games have been marketed, exclusively targeting the male population from the start & alienating a lot of the potential female audiences with the tropes with see in games today. I get the general feeling that it's always secretly been this 'Boy's Club' & that mentality has stuck to this day, inside the workplace and inside the community. As Anita highlighted in one of her videos, male is considered default, and girls the exception/variable. The lack of appeal to girls has ended up causing this unusual poisonous cocktail where 'leave your politics out of my games!' becomes the go-to answer for a lot of people & it rarely feels like we're making any progress on the matter.
But the thing is, are my notions correct? Are women equally interested in videogames as men, or have the potential to be? If more women were incorporated into the game-o-sphere, would that actually help cause a shift to start broadening the scopes of how videogames are developed? Or are my reservations simply hoping for the best, of what I want to see? I'm genuinely interested in what everyone here thinks as it's one of the more pressing matters going into 2014. I hope that the current Indie renaissance helps influence the mainstream, since that's the area of games we are seeing that are actually acting progressively on eliminating these attitudes.
I apologize if this was a bit of a ramble
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I think there's a similar comparison to be made between women in the gaming industry and women in law enforcement. Typically, it's defined as a a masculine profession, but as games have evolved and changed, so too have the ways women work in the field. I think there is still a stigma, and I got this a lot just working at Game Stop, to be pretty and interested in the same things men are. Why else do booth babes exist? Even when women have a legitimate interest in games, I have experienced that men dream that we be perfect in order to stimulate their fantasies of what, I'm not really sure. I think it's honestly kind of weird. Like, why can't I be a girl and like games? Who cares?
Game developer roles for women have changed, in my opinion, for the better. More art than ever before is being incorporated into games and I think that's great; it takes the stigma away from it being "oh this girl's a gamer she's hot" to "she's a person with an artistic talent working on a project".
Even so, I feel as though older generations don't see it that way. For my entire life, my parents have never understood my love for gaming. If I were to choose a profession in that, they'd probably think that was strange.
Does that answer your question? I'm still a bit sleepy.
Game developer roles for women have changed, in my opinion, for the better. More art than ever before is being incorporated into games and I think that's great; it takes the stigma away from it being "oh this girl's a gamer she's hot" to "she's a person with an artistic talent working on a project".
Even so, I feel as though older generations don't see it that way. For my entire life, my parents have never understood my love for gaming. If I were to choose a profession in that, they'd probably think that was strange.
Does that answer your question? I'm still a bit sleepy.
Oh god, were to start.
My background: I have been working in the game's industry for about 15 years now in pretty much any position but raw programming (I can hack though!).
I can use Unity, I do concept and 3D Art, I do game design, I do world-building, I also did community management and do PR and communcation as well as Business development all in the same field.
While I find it annoying that people most of the time assume I am a booth babe and that I have to explain that I am actually part of the development team when I showcase one of your games I generally only had positive experiences as a girl. The whole thing about not wanting to work in the industry because of hate or stereotypes is definitely not true for me nor did I ever experience it as something that would hold me back. I also never understood why others care so much. It's just human nature to attack those that do something you are passionate about and are maybe not agreeing with. That is equally true for male and female.
The thing is, this whole stereotype problem is an educational issue and not an industry issue. The fact that the internet made everything worse because gamers worldwide can voice their opinion on something they are VERY passionate about without fearing consequences of what they say doesn't help this. Human beings always tend to attack someone for the most obvious thing that others most likely will find to be out of the ordinary (if that makes sense..)
What about the music industry? Look at all the freaking sexist videos - there are a shitload of women working in that industry despite all that and no one really considers it a big issue, yet the gaming industry all of a sudden is THE culprit while in fact it's an issue with society and how kids grow up in respecting other human beings for what they are.
IE: the rage about a girl being screamed at and called a bitch in CoD is presented as a sexism issue while in fact those kids who do that would scream and call a male they get worked up "white pig" or "black pig" or whatever is convenient to cause a reaction in the other party.
I admire Romero and other female developers who fight the good fight but I honestly think they are fighting the symptoms and not the cause. Who in their right mind seriously thinks that Video games teach their kids morals and stereotypes? If you as parent raise your kids to know that it's not a girl's job to play with dolls if she doesn't want and that's great for her to get a great job and that she does HAVE to have kids to have a fullfilled life if she doesn't want to, you do much more for that whole issue than we could in one industry.
I am a gamer, I am a geek and nerd and I never EVER felt alienated either playing games or working in the industry. I also never felt threatened or unwelcome at a conference due to booth babes. I generally tend to think if someone has a problem with that, it's their own personal problem.
There were the weird, hurting comments on a picture that was posted of me once where one of the comment was, "she is wearking hooker boots, suits her" - but on the other hand, there were really nasty comments on other male devs too. It's a reflection of general lack of respect for other human beings and they just use the parts that they feel will hurt the most for that particular person.
My parents were pretty open, they never forced or kept me from doing anything particular and I developed a taste for gaming very early on without ever feeling out of place. *shrug*
But maybe working in mostly men teams has made me kind of a boy myself
My background: I have been working in the game's industry for about 15 years now in pretty much any position but raw programming (I can hack though!).
I can use Unity, I do concept and 3D Art, I do game design, I do world-building, I also did community management and do PR and communcation as well as Business development all in the same field.
While I find it annoying that people most of the time assume I am a booth babe and that I have to explain that I am actually part of the development team when I showcase one of your games I generally only had positive experiences as a girl. The whole thing about not wanting to work in the industry because of hate or stereotypes is definitely not true for me nor did I ever experience it as something that would hold me back. I also never understood why others care so much. It's just human nature to attack those that do something you are passionate about and are maybe not agreeing with. That is equally true for male and female.
The thing is, this whole stereotype problem is an educational issue and not an industry issue. The fact that the internet made everything worse because gamers worldwide can voice their opinion on something they are VERY passionate about without fearing consequences of what they say doesn't help this. Human beings always tend to attack someone for the most obvious thing that others most likely will find to be out of the ordinary (if that makes sense..)
What about the music industry? Look at all the freaking sexist videos - there are a shitload of women working in that industry despite all that and no one really considers it a big issue, yet the gaming industry all of a sudden is THE culprit while in fact it's an issue with society and how kids grow up in respecting other human beings for what they are.
IE: the rage about a girl being screamed at and called a bitch in CoD is presented as a sexism issue while in fact those kids who do that would scream and call a male they get worked up "white pig" or "black pig" or whatever is convenient to cause a reaction in the other party.
I admire Romero and other female developers who fight the good fight but I honestly think they are fighting the symptoms and not the cause. Who in their right mind seriously thinks that Video games teach their kids morals and stereotypes? If you as parent raise your kids to know that it's not a girl's job to play with dolls if she doesn't want and that's great for her to get a great job and that she does HAVE to have kids to have a fullfilled life if she doesn't want to, you do much more for that whole issue than we could in one industry.
I am a gamer, I am a geek and nerd and I never EVER felt alienated either playing games or working in the industry. I also never felt threatened or unwelcome at a conference due to booth babes. I generally tend to think if someone has a problem with that, it's their own personal problem.
There were the weird, hurting comments on a picture that was posted of me once where one of the comment was, "she is wearking hooker boots, suits her" - but on the other hand, there were really nasty comments on other male devs too. It's a reflection of general lack of respect for other human beings and they just use the parts that they feel will hurt the most for that particular person.
My parents were pretty open, they never forced or kept me from doing anything particular and I developed a taste for gaming very early on without ever feeling out of place. *shrug*
But maybe working in mostly men teams has made me kind of a boy myself
TheHollowNight
Member
Yes! Thank you. Obviously I would like to hear some other people's thoughts as well, but I appreciate the response
That's sort of exactly the mentality I've always had, why is any of this such a big deal? Why does this stigma exist when, frankly, at the end of the day, no one should give a shit about the actual people involved and only judge the product for it's artistic merits. obviously this extends to attitudes over sexuality & race (industry has a huge identity crisis in terms of the characters it's willing to portray), but we haven't even managed to progress past gender yet.
I'm not sure If I formed these ideals because I grew up with girls from a very young age - I'm quite gender neutral in my mindset - or simply, that I just don't like seeing people being treated differently, or made an example out of because they aren't the norm. It's pretty ridiculous to be frank.
All I can say is, with a lot of the developers my age (early to mid 20's), the shared attitude is much more progressive. Everyone seems to be on the same wavelength and won't tolerate a lot of the malice that rears it's ugly head from time to time. I'm hoping our generation will really make a non-issue out of this, since we're the first to grow up with videogames properly. since childhood. It's the same reason we see games like Gone Home being made. A lot of those devs grew up with games always relevant in their lives, like film or music, and now feel they would like to tell more evocative and interesting stories.
I've also seen a large influx in girls doing games animation courses, which is great. My brother is currently studying at university now and it's positive to see something that was probably unheard of 10 years ago. We also do some introductory course to students in the area at the studio I work for, and the catch really only seems to be how you approach the medium. If you can make it sound appealing in a way that interests more females, there's no reason why they wouldn't consider it over other art/design careers.
That also really sucks about the gamestop situation. It's a bizarre hivemind & unfortunately one of the worst places you can be probably be expected to experience that attitude.
In response to the idea of pursuing a career in games, I can't say I had it any easier with my parents either haha. I mean, they are supportive and happy, but it's that generational disconnect, where they don't really understand lol.
shanshan310
Member
Oh definitely, and I think that if you look at a lot of girls that don't identify as gamers you'll find many of them still play casually in some form. There's just this idea that there are some games that "don't count", or that playing games with your partner doesn't count. Whenever one of those "girl gamer" threads pops up, people bring in those stats about women making up 48% of gaming or something to counter the lack-of-interest argument. In the end though they usually end up dismissed because "the sims/ farmville/ mobile games lol". That sims stereotype has been ridiculously pervasive honestly. Fuck it. Seriously.
I completely agree with your points about advertising and the boys club mentality. The only games that get advertised on TV/Posters around the city are COD, GTA, Mass Effect etc. For people unfamiliar with the medium, it really just gives off the image that in games you only play dudes shooting things. Gaming is so much more than that, but for women who have never been exposed to gaming it really does look like it's solely action man based. And let's not even start on how people carry on when there's a girl playing with them, even though there are likely several in every match.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I do think, however, that game developers are also taking the issue into account through their work. We've seen a lot of really strong female characters in gaming, and I think that's a great progressive step forward. This year alone we had Elizabeth, Ellie, Jodie, etc.
TheHollowNight
Member
Thanks for you reply Tash! That's a nice contrasting opinion & I'm glad you've personally not felt you've been made a target in your career. I mean, there is no way I can 100% know exactly what it's like from a female perspective (boo I'm a man), but I'm a very observational person & am always interested in discussion on these matters, and through what I've seen, it's just something that's struck a huge dis-chord with me. I mean, this is precisely why I'm asking everyone here, there might be things I'm overlooking, or don't really have the same perception of, so it's great to get a more fully formed idea of what women think themselves in the community.
You are also correct in pointing out that these problems aren't isolated to just the games industry, it is a wider issue most definitely.
Yeah. I find it hilarious that videogames apparently have this unspoken ranking system of what constitutes a legitimate game. Like, sorry, what? I mean I'm not at all surprised, people still devalue indie games that get great scores because they are seen as 'hipster-games'. When did this mindset that, social/mobile/indie/sims aren't counted because it's not a AAA experience? Well, personally I'm not a huge fan of the shooty shooty bang man fight games anymore, so I guess I'll take my fake games elsewhere!
Oh god, yeah, I play DOTA with friends and we HAVE to stick to skype for voice chat, since we have a couple of girls who enjoy playing with us occasionally. I mean MOBA communities are pretty toxic to begin with, I don't want any of that shit escalating when they catch a whiff that a girl is playing...
I totally agree. And those are the games that have appealed to me the most. I play games for new experiences, new stories & perspectives, I really hope this trend continues where developers don't feel like they need to tiptoe round the issue for fear of sales, and just write some damn good female characters. Like I mentioned earlier, Gone Home is a perfect example, and probably one of my favourite games of last year, along with The Stanley Parable, in terms of sheer narrative experiences or fleshed-out interesting characters.
You are also correct in pointing out that these problems aren't isolated to just the games industry, it is a wider issue most definitely.
Yeah. I find it hilarious that videogames apparently have this unspoken ranking system of what constitutes a legitimate game. Like, sorry, what? I mean I'm not at all surprised, people still devalue indie games that get great scores because they are seen as 'hipster-games'. When did this mindset that, social/mobile/indie/sims aren't counted because it's not a AAA experience? Well, personally I'm not a huge fan of the shooty shooty bang man fight games anymore, so I guess I'll take my fake games elsewhere!
Oh god, yeah, I play DOTA with friends and we HAVE to stick to skype for voice chat, since we have a couple of girls who enjoy playing with us occasionally. I mean MOBA communities are pretty toxic to begin with, I don't want any of that shit escalating when they catch a whiff that a girl is playing...
I totally agree. And those are the games that have appealed to me the most. I play games for new experiences, new stories & perspectives, I really hope this trend continues where developers don't feel like they need to tiptoe round the issue for fear of sales, and just write some damn good female characters. Like I mentioned earlier, Gone Home is a perfect example, and probably one of my favourite games of last year, along with The Stanley Parable, in terms of sheer narrative experiences or fleshed-out interesting characters.
I must be really lucky. I played CoD and any MMO there is and was never treated differently for being a girl. I don't mention that I am a girl when I first join someone (guild, linkshell, whatever). If I end up in a chat of some sorts people will notice but by that time I already established I can hold my own gaming wise.
Showing that you are good at what you do is the best way to shut haters up. Both in Gaming and in the work environment.
I can't believe a girl would be treated differently or sexist in the art area. I have never EVER experienced such thing. The experience your friend had would for me just show that the job she had was totally not appreciating here and was wrong to start with (not the job per so but the company she worked for). That can happen to anyone to be honest in any job. Or not?
Showing that you are good at what you do is the best way to shut haters up. Both in Gaming and in the work environment.
I can't believe a girl would be treated differently or sexist in the art area. I have never EVER experienced such thing. The experience your friend had would for me just show that the job she had was totally not appreciating here and was wrong to start with (not the job per so but the company she worked for). That can happen to anyone to be honest in any job. Or not?
TheHollowNight
Member
Wow. Jesus Christ.
TheHollowNight
Member
Now I run my own guild, and my folks know that sorta stuff isn't tolerated
Well I'm glad there's a happy ending to that!
weemadarthur
Member
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Devolution
Member
Best thing Halo implemented was mute/audio team only and then XBox later had private chats. Sure was tiring being called a cunt, faggot, fat ugly whore. Didn't matter if I kicked their ass, it made them more vitriolic even.
weemadarthur
Member
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