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[Marmaladefire]

I've often run into the wall of 'Well, you don't represent real women, because you like video games, so your opinon isn't valid.' or something. Which is hilarious since it's usually a bunch of dudes talking about stuff that pertains to 'real' women.

Yep. I have this thread I'd like to make in my head, about how I would like to see more ~girly~ feminine women in games. Bad ass tomboys are nice, but it's totally cool to wear skirts and like pastels and still be totally competent and worthy of more than a background mom or little sister role. Of course it would go disastrously so, nah.

I love episode 7. I went to see it to have fun, I had a lot of fun. Unfortunately, my childhood was shaped by the prequels being the first trilogy that I could see in theaters, but my mom is a SW fan and saw to it that I viewed the originals ASAP.

 

[Jobbs]

Are you sure it was food poisoning? Maybe it was the Prequels?
As someone who grew up with the originals and thinks that the world would be a better place if every copy of the Prequel movies were shot into the sun, I loved Episode 7. I got to see the Falcon fly like I always imagined and I sat there with a shit eating grin the entire time. If the whole movie was just the first scene with the damn Falcon flying around, I would have been satisfied.

Only good things (as far as I can recall) about the prequels were Emperor Palpatine, who was entertaining because he was the only character in any of the films with any passion or who seemed remotely like a person, and the Padme funeral scene which was really pretty (although nearly ruined by the appearance of Jarjar).

 

[Media]

Yep. I have this thread I'd like to make in my head, about how I would like to see more ~girly~ feminine women in games. Bad ass tomboys are nice, but it's totally cool to wear skirts and like pastels and still be totally competent and worthy of more than a background mom or little sister role. Of course it would go disastrously so, nah.

I love episode 7. I went to see it to have fun, I had a lot of fun. Unfortunately, my childhood was shaped by the prequels being the first trilogy that I could see in theaters, but my mom is a SW fan and saw to it that I viewed the originals ASAP.

I'm sure all the erm, Lolita type games would be held up as examples of what you want.

And yes, we totally need more badass girly girls in media, even though I myself am a tomboy. My daughter is a warrior princess in pink, and she needs some role models

 

[shiba5]

Only good things (as far as I can recall) about the prequels were Emperor Palpatine, who was entertaining because he was the only character in any of the films with any passion or who seemed remotely like a person, and the Padme funeral scene which was really pretty (although nearly ruined by the appearance of Jarjar).

I will give you Palpatine. He was the only member of the cast who appeared to be having any fun - and they still made him look ridiculous corkscrewing around in the air.
I thought Ewan McGregor could have been a great Obi Wan, but he was given nothing to work with.

 

[Ekai]

Yeah I dunno why I go in those threads, or any threads pertaining to women honestly, they all make me mad lol. You try and explain why things are bad and why they need change and it's like shouting into a well or something. :/

It's frustrating. I look into those threads out of morbid curiosity more than anything else.

Love, love Pokémon Puzzle League. I got Planet Puzzle League for the NDS but it didn't have the 3D mode. I know it was hard to program AI for it and on the N64 it would lag if you went too fast. But so good. Not just the gameplay though. I still love the music and the sound bites of the characters and Pokémon.

Never played Planet Puzzle League. That's a shame cause I loved that mode. I'll have to see if I can find it though.
Agreed too, the sound, as cheesy as it was, was fantastic in Pokemon Puzzle League. <3

I will give you Palpatine. He was the only member of the cast who appeared to be having any fun - and they still made him look ridiculous corkscrewing around in the air.
I thought Ewan McGregor could have been a great Obi Wan, but he was given nothing to work with.

No one really had any material to work with in the prequels. They were such poorly slopped together messes. : /
7 was a bit of a rehash of past ideas but at least it was entertaining.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

girls aren't allowed to like vidya

i've been sick this week and today is the first day i've gotten a chance to work out since monday.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

This was hilarious and on point and I felt I had to share with y'all.

9 Non-Threatening Leadership Strategies for Women

I found a new bible.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I'm playing Trails in the Sky (SC) right now and Estelle is pretty "girly", despite the in-game dialogue suggesting she's supposed to be "tomboy", haha. The female representation is surprisingly solid in this game, I have to say. And it passes the Bechdel test with flying colours! :O

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I'm playing Trails in the Sky (SC) right now and Estelle is pretty "girly", despite the in-game dialogue suggesting she's supposed to be "tomboy", haha. The female representation is surprisingly solid in this game, I have to say. And it passes the Bechdel test with flying colours! :O

The teacher owns.

 

[Leeness]

girls aren't allowed to like vidya

i've been sick this week and today is the first day i've gotten a chance to work out since monday.

Glad you're recovered.

I've had to stop running for the next week...tendon in my left foot is mad. &#128532;

On a different note, made an appointment in mid August with my GP to discuss tubal litigation. I'm actually excited lol.

 

[Nudull]

I'm playing Trails in the Sky (SC) right now and Estelle is pretty "girly", despite the in-game dialogue suggesting she's supposed to be "tomboy", haha. The female representation is surprisingly solid in this game, I have to say. And it passes the Bechdel test with flying colours! :O

I've heard there was a bit of awkwardness here and there, which was partially why I was hesitant on buying it. o.o

 

[Marmaladefire]

I'm playing Trails in the Sky (SC) right now and Estelle is pretty "girly", despite the in-game dialogue suggesting she's supposed to be "tomboy", haha. The female representation is surprisingly solid in this game, I have to say. And it passes the Bechdel test with flying colours! :O

I'm sure all the erm, Lolita type games would be held up as examples of what you want.

And yes, we totally need more badass girly girls in media, even though I myself am a tomboy. My daughter is a warrior princess in pink, and she needs some role models

Yes! I play lots of JRPGs, and I love them! But it's different. Those characters are created in a target demo focused world where there are a bunch of women of various archetypes because they sell figures and pillows, because male players would be "threatened" if it were any other way. Minus, maybe, FF and some other SE games, and SMT pre-Persona 4 it's hard to have a woman in a game who is girly, just because that's who she is. Not a fake sexpot double agent, not victim waiting to happen (who will then of course turn into a hard ass in a brown tank top and utility shorts.) or a miserable repressed prude type *cough* Yukiko *cough*

I've personally never had any issues with a sudden IQ drop or becoming unable to drink bourbon or being a person who should be taken seriously or whatever it is they're afraid of when I put on a hair bow, and I don't think I'm alone.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Yes! I play lots of JRPGs, and I love them! But it's different. Those characters are created in a target demo focused world where there are a bunch of women of various archetypes because they sell figures and pillows, because male players would be "threatened" if it were any other way. Minus, maybe, FF and some other SE games, and SMT pre-Persona 4 it's hard to have a woman in a game who is girly, just because that's who she is. Not a fake sexpot double agent, not victim waiting to happen (who will then of course turn into a hard ass in a brown tank top and utility shorts.) or a miserable repressed prude type *cough* Yukiko *cough*

I've personally never had any issues with a sudden IQ drop or becoming unable to drink bourbon or being a person who should be taken seriously or whatever it is they're afraid of when I put on a hair bow, and I don't think I'm alone.

Eh?

Play Suikoden series. Lots of diversity. You've got Tom boys, wise sages, motherly figures, girly girls, obese women, ninjas. Magic masters who are girly and do evil acts in the name of love. Girly black warrior girls in pursuit of adventure and soda pop. Cute girly knights sworn to protect people despite their small size. Legendary female warriors granted parades. Old curmudgeon women strategists who have grown fond of alcoholism due to their past blunders that resulted in the deaths of many. Treasure hunters and bounty hunters. Hundreds year old vampires. GOAT female characters in a game easily.

Japanese games are so much better about female characters and I don't think recent loli games are the best sample.

Other jrpgs with great women characters are Dragon Quest and Valkyrie Profile, Japanese RPGs have historically had great female characters and it's one of the large reasons I think it's so popular with girls.

 

[Jobbs]

I will give you Palpatine. He was the only member of the cast who appeared to be having any fun - and they still made him look ridiculous corkscrewing around in the air.
I thought Ewan McGregor could have been a great Obi Wan, but he was given nothing to work with.

Prequels are what you get is when fate leads to an incompetent manchild being allowed to have total creative control over a big budget movie. It's that simple. Some of the individual components are competent (the various artists and craftsman involved clearly have talent) but as a work of cinema and writing and storytelling it's flatly incompetent.

 

[Nudull]

Prequels are what you get is when fate leads to an incompetent manchild being allowed to have total creative control over a big budget movie. It's that simple. Some of the individual components are competent (the various artists and craftsman involved clearly have talent) but as a work of cinema and writing and storytelling it's flatly incompetent.

Credit where it's due, we wouldn't have gotten the two Clone Wars cartoons, or Republic Commando, Knights of the Old Republic, or a lot of other good EU stuff if it weren't for the prequels. Bit of a double-edged sword.

As a matter of fact, the CGI Clone Wars cartoon actually came to retroactively salvage a lot of what didn't work in the prequels. Seriously, that show was one big fix fic, from fleshing out the beginnings of the various conflicts, to showing the flaws of using clones in the first place (and reasonably explaining why they would still be used), to actually showing Anakin's descent to the dark side in ways that make sense, explaining how and why it comes about.

 

[Jobbs]

Credit where it's due, we wouldn't have gotten the two Clone Wars cartoons, or Republic Commando, Knights of the Old Republic, or a lot of other good EU stuff if it weren't for the prequels. Bit of a double-edged sword.

As a matter of fact, the CGI Clone Wars cartoon actually came to retroactively salvage a lot of what didn't work in the prequels. Seriously, that show was one big fix fic, from fleshing out the beginnings of the various conflicts, to showing the flaws of using clones in the first place (and reasonably explaining why they would still be used), to actually showing Anakin's descent to the dark side in ways that make sense, explaining how and why it comes about.

That may be the case (never really watched many of the clone wars stuff) because if Lucas isn't directly involved there's a good chance you'll have writers who understand how to construct a story.

That said, I think the entire premise ruins almost everything that was special about Star Wars. The mystery and mystique of Vader was great, and how he became Darth Vader isn't really that interesting -- What's interesting is his redemption.

Similarly, nearly every aspect of the Jedi and The Force and what was special and magical about it were just completely gutted by the video game bullshit of the prequels. Talking about some distant past when there were many Jedi and great wars is more interesting than actually trying to show those things. A lightsaber is interesting when it's used sparingly. When there are 8,000 of them on the screen and little kids have lightsabers and people carry around spare lightsabers and lightsabers lightsabers lightsabers it's just completely ruined.

What was interesting about Yoda was that he was this little tiny creature that we didn't expect to be a Jedi master. He was subversive. He was interesting because he was wise and he taught us things. He was transcendent. "Wars not make one great" and all that. He's not interesting because he spins around the screen doing video game shit.

I could go on and on, but boy holy hell do I hate these movies (the prequels).

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Eh?

Play Suikoden series. Lots of diversity. You've got Tom boys, wise sages, motherly figures, girly girls, obese women, ninjas. Magic masters who are girly and do evil acts in the name of love. Girly black warrior girls in pursuit of adventure and soda pop. Cute girly knights sworn to protect people despite their small size. Legendary female warriors granted parades. Old curmudgeon women strategists who have grown fond of alcoholism due to their past blunders that resulted in the deaths of many. Treasure hunters and bounty hunters. Hundreds year old vampires. GOAT female characters in a game easily.

Japanese games are so much better about female characters and I don't think recent loli games are the best sample.

Other jrpgs with great women characters are Dragon Quest and Valkyrie Profile, Japanese RPGs have historically had great female characters and it's one of the large reasons I think it's so popular with girls.

Yeah I honestly don't know what Marmaladefire was talking about.

It's true that modern JRPGs are a shitshow for female representation though. Like, truly terrible. But it used to be great.

Wild ARMs was another great example. All the female characters are interesting and diverse in their own ways (including two female villains who don't fall under the same old clichés we always see), not a single one of them is sexualized in any way, and none of them act as a love interest for a male counter-part (one female NPC does seem to have a bit of a crush on one of the male character, but it's a minimal subplot that doesn't really go anywhere, just a quirk of hers and not central to her character).

 

[Nudull]

God, I miss Wild ARMs.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Yeah I honestly don't know what Marmaladefire was talking about.

It's true that modern JRPGs are a shitshow for female representation though. Like, truly terrible. But it used to be great.

Wild ARMs was another great example. All the female characters are interesting and diverse in their own ways (including two female villains who don't fall under the same old clichés we always see), not a single one of them is sexualized in any way, and none of them act as a love interest for a male counter-part (one female NPC does seem to have a bit of a crush on one of the male character, but it's a minimal subplot that doesn't really go anywhere, just a quirk of hers and not central to her character).

Modern jrpgs are only a shitshow for female representation only because a lot of the series listed are dead.

Even then, we've got Nier Automata coming up, Bravely Default games are okay about female characters, I Am Setsuna;etc. jrpgs are stil the most consistent and diverse genre in terms of gender representation. It's not even close.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Suikoden has black women in it? I might have to play one of the games now. A series I always heard about, but never actually cared to play for some reason.
Didn't know about modern representation in JRPGs because I haven't played any that came out within the last two generations. 6th gen was the last time I was playing them often. I still play JRPGs now, but they're all from older generations.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Suikoden has black women in it? I might have to play one of the games now. A series I always heard about, but never actually cared to play for some reason.
Didn't know about modern representation in JRPGs because I haven't played any that came out within the last two generations. 6th gen was the last time I was playing them often. I still play JRPGs now, but they're all from older generations.

Suikoden has the best female character designs as well.

In III there's a village with brown and black people. Hugo's mom is even an assassin in II.

Fucking black warriors who love soda and adventure.

Fucking centuries old vampires.

Magicians.

Alcoholic war strategists.

War geniuses.

Knights.

Treasure hunters.

The prince's personal guard.

Can do this all day. Greatest of all time.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Well each Suikoden games has 108 playable characters so there's bound to be a few black folks in it there aren't that many, it's still a Japanese game but still, the casts are indeed quite diverse.

Related thread from a while back: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1165488

 

[suzu]

Suikoden is my favorite RPG series. So sad it's dead.

 

[Nudull]

Confession: I have Suikoden I and II on PSN, but I still haven't gotten to play either. :c

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Suikoden is my favorite RPG series. So sad it's dead.

The pain hurts. We can make it. ;_;

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Suikoden has the best female character designs as well.

In III there's a village with brown and black people. Hugo's mom is even an assassin in II.

I like her style, but this is somebody's mom? She looks younger than me.

Well each Suikoden games has 108 playable characters so there's bound to be a few black folks in it there aren't that many, it's still a Japanese game but still, the casts are indeed quite diverse.

Related thread from a while back: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1165488

108? By that number I assume most don't get attention in the story. Are the characters used in like a military type fashion where they can die permanently like in Fire Emblem? That's the only way I can see 108 characters without it feeling overwhelming.

 

[Marmaladefire]

Eh?

Play Suikoden series. Lots of diversity. You've got Tom boys, wise sages, motherly figures, girly girls, obese women, ninjas. Magic masters who are girly and do evil acts in the name of love. Girly black warrior girls in pursuit of adventure and soda pop. Cute girly knights sworn to protect people despite their small size. Legendary female warriors granted parades. Old curmudgeon women strategists who have grown fond of alcoholism due to their past blunders that resulted in the deaths of many. Treasure hunters and bounty hunters. Hundreds year old vampires. GOAT female characters in a game easily.

Japanese games are so much better about female characters and I don't think recent loli games are the best sample.

Other jrpgs with great women characters are Dragon Quest and Valkyrie Profile, Japanese RPGs have historically had great female characters and it's one of the large reasons I think it's so popular with girls.

Yeah I honestly don't know what Marmaladefire was talking about.

It's true that modern JRPGs are a shitshow for female representation though. Like, truly terrible. But it used to be great.

Wild ARMs was another great example. All the female characters are interesting and diverse in their own ways (including two female villains who don't fall under the same old clichés we always see), not a single one of them is sexualized in any way, and none of them act as a love interest for a male counter-part (one female NPC does seem to have a bit of a crush on one of the male character, but it's a minimal subplot that doesn't really go anywhere, just a quirk of hers and not central to her character).

I've been playing JRPGs since the PSX golden era, and I agree. I worded it poorly, but basically I was agreeing with the fact that the games that would be trotted out in my hypothetical thread would likely be fully of shitty examples. Valkyrie Profile, in particular is one of my favorite games. I still need to finish Suikoden. I never did back then

Female representation is the #1 reason JRPGs are my favorite genre (though I always did get a little sad that girls that look like me would never be the main heroine, but you take what you can get), and probably the reason I stuck with gaming all of these years. It's really sad for me to see them go down the narrative tubes like some of the more popular games have been recently.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Alia is no ones mom. She's a teenager. There's more than one black character in Suikoden. Hell, there's more than one black woman.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I like her style, but this is somebody's mom? She looks younger than me.


108? By that number I assume most don't get attention in the story. Are the characters used in like a military type fashion where they can die permanently like in Fire Emblem? That's the only way I can see 108 characters without it feeling overwhelming.

You're wrong, actually. Character representation depends on the game. In I and II the cast is tight knit. You get maybe 30 characters central to the plot? In III it's a lot larger but a lot of the extra characters are more throwaway. None of the brown/black characters in III are throwaway and are central to the story. V has some of the best use of characters in a game. It felt like at least 50 are used in the story.

This is not Chrono Cross. Characters are central to Suikoden's appeal. Even side characters have their own stories, lore, histories.

This is ignoring villains, who are fully fleshed and do not have "take over the world" plans. Another reason it's the GOAT.

The only Suikoden game where characters can die permanently through gameplay is I. In other games, it's down to story.

 

[olympia]

my bf has implored me to play suikoden so i guess i'll check it out. never really knew what it's deal was. sounds really cool. i'll play a jrpg

i had an amazing week. went to go see brand new with my sister, bf and great friend at the greek theater in berkeley and they were amaaazziiinnng. really moving renditions of degausser and you won't know. i'm in pismo beach this weekend hanging out now, and my portfolio is coming along nicely. and dragon ball is back. sorry i'm just feeling hella positive right now and i need to share

e: safari autocorrect is rude

 

[timetokill]

Speaking of which, is there a list of games that have more than one named black woman in them?

 

[suzu]

108? By that number I assume most don't get attention in the story. Are the characters used in like a military type fashion where they can die permanently like in Fire Emblem? That's the only way I can see 108 characters without it feeling overwhelming.

It's 108 because the series is loosely based on a classical Chinese novel. There's war battles that occur at some points in the games where you can lose characters permanently. The characters that are more important to the story can't die though (welllll..).

Confession: I have Suikoden I and II on PSN, but I still haven't gotten to play either. :c

The games are pretty short! Get on that~

The pain hurts. We can make it. ;_;

I will always be sad that we'll never see the whole saga.

 

[Ekai]

I should play Suikoden. Reading all of this has piqued my interest.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

If you play I it's a bit slow, but it's like 16 hours long at most. It's also a bit rough. It's a holdover from the SNES RPG days so there's no run button, and the story takes a while to get good. A lot of the characters aren't the best either. II is like 25-30 hours long. I spent 50 hours on it my first play through though.

my bf has implored me to play suikoden so i guess i'll check it out. never really knew what it's deal was. sounds really cool. i'll play a jrpg

i had an amazing week. went to go see brand new with my sister, bf and great friend at the greek theater in berkeley and they were amaaazziiinnng. really moving renditions of degausser and you won't know. i'm in pismo beach this weekend hanging out now, and my portfolio is coming along nicely. and dragon ball is back. sorry i'm just feeling hella positive right now and i need to share

e: safari autocorrect is rude

How long have you been working on your portfolio.

It's 108 because the series is loosely based on a classical Chinese novel. There's war battles that occur at some points in the games where you can lose characters permanently. The characters that are more important to the story can't die though (welllll..).



The games are pretty short! Get on that~



I will always be sad that we'll never see the whole saga.

We need kickstarter involved somehow I think. It's the only way. I need closure!

 

[olympia]

How long have you been working on your portfolio.

really long time. i applied to art center in february with one and I got into illustration but not entertainment design, which is what i really want to do because i'd like to do production art and the program is just overall better. also I know how to be an illustrator already. i felt bad for getting rejected but it's really competitive so i can only kick myself a so much about it. my old portfolio is kind of embarrassing to look at now even though it's only been six months

since i didn't get into entertainment design i did some mentorships and online classes, notably with kalen chock and anthony jones who were really great and gave some indispensable advice. i'm taking a workshop with kim jung gi next month

so i started working on my portfolio pretty much full-time in june, i had some money saved up to pay rent for 3 months, the new portfolio is due in october. it's going nicely.

thanks for listening

 

[weemadarthur]

.

 

[olympia]

Another cool thing about Suikoden is the speed/auto fight feature.

sold

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

really long time. i applied to art center in february with one and I got into illustration but not entertainment design, which is what i really want to do because i'd like to do production art and the program is just overall better. also I know how to be an illustrator already. i felt bad for getting rejected but it's really competitive so i can only kick myself a so much about it. my old portfolio is kind of embarrassing to look at now even though it's only been six months

since i didn't get into entertainment design i did some mentorships and online classes, notably with kalen chock and anthony jones who were really great and gave some indispensable advice. i'm taking a workshop with kim jung gi next month

so i started working on my portfolio pretty much full-time in june, i had some money saved up to pay rent for 3 months, the new portfolio is due in october. it's going nicely.

Since you're in Berkeley look into ateliers instead. Cheaper and usually have better art programs.

Art Renewal has a great map resource of accredited ateliers. Iirc bay area has some good ones.

https://artrenewal.org/pages/ateliermap.php

If you're looking to relocate look into Watts Atelier. Classes start at 400. It's in Encinitas. Been taking online classes and going to move there for in person classes.

Look into these ateliers in Bay Area:

Golden Gate Atelier
Atelier School of Classical Realism
Sadie Valeri Ateleir
Atelier BACAA (This is in San Carlos tho)

You can get trained without going to art school. Ateliers provide classical training, world class art education, and mentorship at a fraction of the cost of art school. They are usually open to the public too so admission usually isn't a big deal.

 

[olympia]

Since you're in Berkeley look into ateliers instead. Cheaper and usually have better art programs.

Art Renewal has a great map resource of accredited ateliers. Iirc bay area has some good ones.

https://artrenewal.org/pages/ateliermap.php

If you're looking to relocate look into Watts Atelier. Classes start at 400. It's in Encinitas. Been taking online classes and going to move there for in person classes.

Look into these ateliers in Bay Area:

Golden Gate Atelier
Atelier School of Classical Realism
Sadie Valeri Ateleir
Atelier BACAA (This is in San Carlos tho)

You can get trained without going to art school. Ateliers provide classical training, world class art education, and mentorship at a fraction of the cost of art school. They are usually open to the public too so admission usually isn't a big deal.

thanks!

i'm in the south bay area and there isn't really shit here. the problem with ateliers are that they are more classically driven (such as sadie valeri, i took her online classes), unless it's an atelier like the safeshouse where they teach digital painting and concept art, which is what i'm more interested in doing now after doing comics, illustrations, portraits and etc.

i'd figure if i can't do art center, too demanding, not worth it etc., i'd go to a place like CDA or kazone or brainstorm or maybe even gnomon.

a lot of people have already told me i don't need to go to art school, but i'd really like to finally have a bachelors degree. my original plan was to go to SJSU, but they would make me take foundational classes that i took at a JC level and i would be there for like six years, and the program is so impacted that you need a 3.95 gpa to qualify.

art center entertainment design isn't really a school where you learn how to draw, you should already know how to draw when you are going in, because they teach you how to ideate and create stuff quick, not to mention the enormous opportunities that the ED major opens. idk. i was planning on checking out watts and the safehouse for long pose life drawing classes and such because i fucking love those, and i can't find a place around here that does poses that are longer than an hour. i would personally have a less harder time paying for art center initially since i qualify for certain grants because it's an accredited college, where it's kind of hard to drop a few grand at a full time atelier

the feedback that i got when i turned in my portfolio wasn't that i didn't know how to draw, it's that i didn't have enough content and enough effort compared to the other entries. there's only 20 spots a term.

how do you like the watts classes? do you have any work you'd like to share?

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

The trick is to supplement ateliers with online schools like CGMA for your specific niches. The problem with art schools is that they don't always have a great foundation in art skills and you see a lot of people graduate who still don't have professional skills because they're for profit first and foremost.

I feel like you're another me. Weird.

Wanted to get a master degree in Illustration. After much research realized it wasn't worth it.

You need to write down the positives and negatives of going to art school and not going to art school.

Positives:

Bachelors degree and self fulfillment.

Places like Art Center have resources for students after graduations due to connections. Many famous artists in the field you're interested in will give lectures.

Sense of community and connection.

The easy ability to focus on your niche.

Negatives:

Most art jobs do not care about degrees, they care about skills. The question is "can you do the job?" And they won't even ask for your degree once.

Art schools are for profit generally and are an easy way to get into debt. Do not take this lightly because for profit means they may value that over your art skills.

Many art schools place emphasis on abstract concepts like conceptualization and individualization than art fundamentals. So you'll have artists who have been trained to try to do art creatively - after all, after the modern art movement everything is art, who is to say your art is bad or not professional level? - rather than with strong fundamentals. The problem because an artist who has ideas but without the skills to put them down to paper.

Art schools aren't always as well rounded in art education.

It's common for an art school graduate to have 100k in debt. That is not worth art education.

It's easy to want to feel like you need that bachelor degree, and I can't blame you. But do not rush this.

I joined Art Camp and did that. I'm doing Watts to get fundamentals in anatomy now. I'm hoping to do digital painting classes CGMA 2d next year. Watts online classes are good but if you want a quick crash course I suggest Art Camp instead.

If you want an alternative take, consider Noah Bradley's Do Not Go To Art School piece on Medium.

https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/dont-go-to-art-school-138c5efd45e9#.ffwm59afi

He's the one that runs Art Camp.

 

[Jobbs]

art school

My two cents.. I worked doing graphic design/illustration for years and now I do it and animation for my (published!) video game.

Art school is pretty much bullshit. All that's going to matter is your portfolio and whether the stuff in it appeals to a prospective employer. No one's going to hire you for your degree if your portfolio doesn't bring the goods and probably very rarely will you get passed on for not having a degree if your portfolio is killer and what the employer is looking for.

Now -- You may be able to develop your skills and acquire some applicable knowledge at art school, but you could also do those things at not art school.

I guess I'm pretty much echoing one of your points, but it's something I've been saying for years.

 

[You Know Nothing]

My two cents.. I worked doing graphic design/illustration for years and now I do it and animation for my (published!) video game.

Art school is pretty much bullshit. All that's going to matter is your portfolio and whether the stuff in it appeals to a prospective employer. No one's going to hire you for your degree if your portfolio doesn't bring the goods and probably very rarely will you get passed on for not having a degree if your portfolio is killer and what the employer is looking for.

Now -- You may be able to develop your skills and acquire some applicable knowledge at art school, but you could also do those things at not art school.

I guess I'm pretty much echoing one of your points, but it's something I've been saying for years.

This is so true.

Art/writing schools are so terrible. Your fancy degree isn't going to do shit for you if you portfolio can't back it up.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Depends on the school but I agree.

 

[InfiniteNine]

This just makes me feel like I dodged a bullet by skipping out on SCAD. lol

 

[Jobbs]

This is so true.

Art/writing schools are so terrible. Your fancy degree isn't going to do shit for you if you portfolio can't back it up.

I've met/seen/known people who have art degrees or who are in art school whose art is awful and lacks fundamentals

Over and over

I don't know what they teach at those places... But people don't seem to learn any kind of, like... Anything...

 

[olympia]

Most art jobs do not care about degrees, they care about skills. The question is "can you do the job?" And they won't even ask for your degree once.

i read your whole post but this thing stood out to me the most.

a huge part of the reason i want to go art center in particular is to learn the intangibles outside of technique: working on a team, working under pressure, working under really strict deadlines, and working quick, and i am totally ready for the idea that it might not work out, but i like to aim high. i'm not applying to other schools, just art center. i also plan to use this portfolio to also find a job in addition to using it as an academic portfolio

i already tried going to a for-profit college right out of high school and i got wise quick and dropped out to do self-learning and kind of threw myself into the wilderness of freelance.

art center is distinguished form other art schools because it's highly industrialized and they do train you to get shit done and do it well, at least the ED major.

also this is my second go around at applying, i'm in no rush haha. October is a good deadline for me because it's for spring term and therefore less competitive

if you're looking into CGMA classes, kalen teaches a CGMA course (environment painting i think) now and he's really good. i highly recommend him. great guy

thanks for the advice cindi! I really appreciate it. i've read the noah bradley piece.

my opinion so far on the matter is that there's no "one size fits all". i feel like i really do flourish in an academic atmosphere, but i'm also wise to the fact art center won't be a silver bullet for my career.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

really long time. i applied to art center in february with one and I got into illustration but not entertainment design, which is what i really want to do because i'd like to do production art and the program is just overall better. also I know how to be an illustrator already. i felt bad for getting rejected but it's really competitive so i can only kick myself a so much about it. my old portfolio is kind of embarrassing to look at now even though it's only been six months

since i didn't get into entertainment design i did some mentorships and online classes, notably with kalen chock and anthony jones who were really great and gave some indispensable advice. i'm taking a workshop with kim jung gi next month

so i started working on my portfolio pretty much full-time in june, i had some money saved up to pay rent for 3 months, the new portfolio is due in october. it's going nicely.

thanks for listening

he is soooooooooo good amg

and olympia is also insaaaaaaanely talented waaaaaah

good luck with portfolio and artness, olympia! <3

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Environments is what I want to do. But I want to be full rounded. Can't wait to do CGMA.

Good luck though.

Another aspiring illustrator on GirlGAF. Small world.

I think you'll be fine Olympia, because the people who think art school alone is the golden ticket without any outside research and study suffer. If you keep doing online classes and workshops you'll be amazing.

 

[olympia]

Environments is what I want to do. But I want to be full rounded.

awesome! yeah kalen is great and super nice. here's his artstation.

https://www.artstation.com/artist/k04sk

e: thanks! good luck dude. if you ever want to draw together or chitchat about art i'm totally down. i'm glad there's more of us

he is soooooooooo good amg

and olympia is also insaaaaaaanely talented waaaaaah

good luck with portfolio and artness, olympia! <3

thanks dude, that's super sweet of you

 

[Jobbs]

I just looked at olympia's porfolio. Really nice! I'm impressed. I'd hire you if I was hiring!