The Artisan
Member
fair enough. no two people, not even identical twins, will ever agree on everything anyway.
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Gorilla killed after dragging child at Cincinnati Zoo
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
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HawksWinStanley
Member
As someone posted on here earlier, reports said she was looking after 4 kids. Do you think that was a good decision? Would you take 4 kids to the zoo with confidence that you could look after all of them?
Christopher
Member
Also because in not a shitty human being and an actual father if my dog was mauling your child or it came down to it I would sure as hell ensure human life was preserved....
The Artisan
Member
there's no need for me to go back and look at it. you've regurgitated some of what you've already expressed. you know what, think what you want. i'm not here trying to change your mind about anything. there's no point for us to go back and forth about this anyway.
perineumlick
Member
I've done it several times, without incident.
RPGCrazied
Member
If he said he wanted to go play in the water with the Gorilla, would that caution you to hold his hand or make sure he can't run off?
He literally said he was going to, and did.
MisterGrey3000
Member
That's not really a cold or unreasonable mindset.
I mean, owning a dog or any kind of pet isn't like owning a numb lifeless lamp or a TV that can be replaced if something happens.
He/she (the pet) is a living breathing feeling being that his/her owner has most likely cared for since they were a baby. There is going to be a significant amount of emotional attachment there, tons of people would most likely prioritize their dog- a family member- over a person they don't know.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
You should take The Artisian's mentality to heart and learn that not every thing is so black and white. You shouldn't judge someone so harshly for their beliefs.
Me saving an animal over a human doesn't make me a shitty human being. I don't believe that human life is the end all be all of the world. Just because I don't share your beliefs doesn't mean I'm a shitty person.
I don't care. I'd like to think I'm better than my dog at decision making. I care more about him than some random person. He might not do the same for me (Which is debatable. There are plenty of examples of dogs fending off attackers because their owners are in danger, and I don't think if it came down to their owner and a random dog that they would just side with the dog and leave the owner to be harmed.) but I care about him more than I do most people.
No, I don't really plan on having them. I didn't say that in this incident that I personally wouldn't feel bad for the parents. But there are situations I can think of where I would feel that the parents were more responsible for the harm of their child and wouldn't really feel any empathy towards them.
I was just pointing out that saying "Fuck the parents." doesn't also mean "Fuck the child."
Definitely the right choice made by the zoo. And yes, children can be real fast and go out of sight in the blink of an eye, so I empathize with the parents. That said, it's near impossible to tell whether this occurred due to parental negligence or not. What is sad is that I'm convinced the mother will get paid big time because of it, which I think is incredibly unfair to the zoo.
GIANKRATOS
Member
So gaf, help me understand the situation. Was the mother alone watching after several children (at least three i imagine)?
RPGCrazied
Member
Yep. I mean, at least take another adult with you.
This, there are just some people that have no real comprehension of empathy whatsoever.
And it's kind of ridiculous how many people think valuing human life over an animal's means we are for literally wiping out species that could potentially harm us. It's such a false equivalency and makes no sense.
This entire situation is truly tragic, and I wish there was a way to safely get the child back, but based on the fact that the Gurilla was getting violent, they didn't have the luxury of getting to think of a solution, it would take any second for it to just snap and kill the child.
perineumlick
Member
I'm not gonna second guess what happened, because I wasn't there. None of us were there.
IISANDERII
Member
"Almost"
And that may only because of the conscience which has exploited so many species to extinction and wiped out natural habitats.
GIANKRATOS
Member
If this is true then, that's bad parenting, sorry. You don't put yourself and your childrens in a potentially dangerous situation that you can't handle.
Loosing sight of your children can happen, we are human after all. But Loosing sight of your child BECAUSE you decided that taking 3 (potentially more) childrens ALONE at a zoo was a good idea? Really? It's like an accident bound to happen. Because of this, a beautiful animal from an endangered species got killed and a child got hurt.
I blame the kid's Mother.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Me saving a dog over a child I don't know does not mean I lack empathy. It just means my empathy is placed differently than where you would place yours. I understand why someone would value a persons life over an animals. But there are animals that I value more than most people.
Astral Dog
Member
Would you rather beat a dog or a child if you had to?
theyasked me that question earlier and was interesting
perineumlick
Member
I think it means something else, but that's just me.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Good thing you don't know me and can't really judge me very well. Otherwise your opinion about me might have some worth.
Empathy =/= sympathy.
You had sympathy for the dog and chose to save him.
You lacked the empathy to realise that allowing the child to die would likely destroy the lives of that child's family.
You don't have to agree with someone to be empathetic. But knowing how drastically it would affect someone else usually helps create sympathy.
perineumlick
Member
That's what this whole thread has been about, passing judgment.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I realize that and I would feel the same way if I was in their position. That doesn't mean making a different decision on the other side of the situation means I lack empathy. It just means I value what I would lose more than I would be upset about a stranger going through something I would also be upset about if I was put in their position.
No, it's about a child falling into a gorilla cage. If you want to make it about passing judgment towards me, you're free to do so. But I'm just telling you that your opinion doesn't really matter to me in the slightest because you know so little about me that it would be pointless to worry about what you think.
The Artisan
Member
I always thought there were tranquilizer guns that could put you out asap. You know, like the ones from the beginning of uncharted 2. but maybe i'm just an idiot for thinking that...
I think we're putting too much weight behind what a 4 year old says they want to do, they blather and talk about crazy shit all the time. Maybe this kid said this about every attraction there. "I want to see the tiger," "I want to sleep with the bear," "I want to fly like the parrot."
If only your experience was ranked higher than those who say how they would raise their theoretical children.
Astral Dog
Member
Youre right we should :'(
For a human? Totally, the problem is that gorillas are not human.
They weigh more than a human by a shitload, they're tougher and stronger by several dozen shitloads.
A tranquilizer designed to take them down takes minutes to work. Shooting more of them in will simply kill them (more slowly than a bullet) as it would essentially overdoes them.
We don't have anything that can knock them out in seconds because of their size and biology.
Yes.
Good point. I'll tell my friends with 3+ kids never to take them anywhere without another adult present. The mall? Nope, a kid could fall down the escalator. Church? Nope, kid could knock over a candle or drown in the baptismal. Bathtime at home? No way, kid could slip and fall in the tub. Hell, I'm ready to declare having more than 2 children to be child abuse. It's an accident waiting to happen!
I'd love to see the stats regarding parents vs non-parents in this thread. Some of the responses bending over backwards to blame the mother are truly mystifying to me.
MisterGrey3000
Member
That's honestly a really silly hypothetical though.
Where and when would a highly implausible, horrific, and contrived scenario like this even occur?
Who or what would ever be forcing me (a middle class college student in the developed world) to do something like that?
Sounds like a rejected concept from a SAW film and not something worth actually answering tbh.
I don't even know if we have that for a human. Tranqing someone is pretty much the job of an anesthesiologist and it's tricky enough for them.
The Artisan
Member
shit i didn't know that's how it worked.
i guess there's just no getting around it. this whole thing sucks.
Just came to post this. Just lock them all up in the house until daddy gets home so the 2:1 ratio is preserved
As a parent the thought of bringing 4 kids to a zoo on my own sounds like a nightmare. Yet this woman's intentions seems to have been to place the children's enjoyment first. The easy out is to do fuck all with the kids and watch some TV
This type of incident has never happened before in the history of that zoo, So why would the thought of that possibility be on her mind?
I'm hoping there will be a timetable of how long it took for that incident to occur to see if she was in fact negligent or not. Although the metric for what constitutes negligence seems to be about 2 seconds of being out of site for some here
Also want to add that the poster above you is correct as well. Drugging someone under is a very delicate science.
Just tranquing someone randomly has a good chance of outright killing them, or at least severely damaging their system.
It's why the specialists that put you under in operations are usually paid the most if not just as much as the surgeon themselves.
It's also why law enforcement will carry Tasers and batons, or specialist using beanbag shooters and pepper spray etc. Receiving a shock from a Taser, or literally a beanbag strong enough to theoretically break your ribs at close range is significantly safer for the target as a result.
And yeah it really is tragic, and because a gorilla could literally pull a human adult into pieces with the same ease that you tear paper (roughly), it was just too much of a risk to tranq it, especially when the initial injection might sting it and fling it into a rage.
Really should just have leash laws for kids like we do for pets. Kids slip away, well the world isn't a safe place. They slip away into the streets and traffic, slip away into ponds, slip away and get kidnapped. At least if they were on leashes up till a certain age parents would have to be responsible for where they end up.
I would save my dog over someone else's child. He's like mine. Obviously you try to do both, but if I had to choose, that's what I would have done.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Was the injuries from the gorilla or from the fall?
Big Baybee
Member
Man. I can't wrap my head around this. What?
No point in trying, really.
what about your own child? the dog or the child?
and to make things...interesting, if you can solve this simple puzzle, you can save both.
and if you fail...you save no one.
Downright scary...
The One and Done
Member
Why did they need to kill the Gorilla though?
As much as I hate that Gorilla had to die, it was ultimately the right move. A Gorilla is an animal, and intelligent one but still an animal, one that could very easily kill that child even accidentally. The mother could have been right, usually careful and she just got unlucky, no one is perfect, literally no one. What else is she supposed to feel but relief and people often turn to God to show that. Religion has been part of human existence for millennia.
That's not hat interesting a quandary actually. Of course one would save their own child over their own dog. You'd hope.
The point of people saying they value their dog over a stranger's child is understandable even if you don't agree.
I'm not a dog owner, but I get it. It's a member of the family. I get that feeling. I just hope that if there's a fire and someone's dog and my kid were trapped inside, that a rescuer would prioritise my kid over the dog, owner included. But you know, everyone has their own priority.
These kinds of discussions are futile though. Because beliefs are beliefs. People would like to argue rationality and logic behind their reasoning, but sometimes there isn't one, and that's ok.
I mean, would you prioritise your kid over someone else's? Of course. Would you prioritise your kid over someone else's YOUNGER kid? Over yourself? the list goes on and on, and everyone will have a different response to each one. Who is right? No-one. Everyone. you couldn't say, really.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
The One and Done;205137043 said:
Causing harm to a child who's more valuable to society.
It isn't a difficult thing to understand.
Let's say you're being dragged around by this really strong animal with enough force that it could actually kill you. Would you sacrifice yourself so the gorilla could live?
Silphonica
Banned
Eye witness account stated that the kid entering the enclosure was a total accident and happened incredibly quickly. Parents are not wrong to assume that enclosures are not so easily accessible.
Im not blaming the parent or the zoo. This is a kid who at the best/worst time made a break for it and caused the worst possible outcome. You cant tell a mother she cant bring 3/4 kids to a zoo because one might get into an enclosure, otherwise zoos would have a policy in place to prevent it during check in.
People are human, this was a freak accident, and the mother feels terrible about it.
WickedLaharl
Member
Congratulations on being a horrible human being.
lol, but god (uncapitalized) is dumb and so r people who believe in it.
I'm on the side that blames the zoo for lax security but it's true this has never happened in the 38 years it's been open to the public. It really is just a bizarre chance occurrence.
I disagree with you entirely.
Don't become a parent if you can't BE a parent (i.e. making sure your kid DOESN'T DO THIS KINDA STUFF)
It's not hard to hold your child's hand and say "Okay now, *child's name*, hold mommy's hand and we're gonna go see the gorillas!"
SMH at the zoo for not tranquilizing the gorilla as a first attempt. Do you really think that a mid-tranquilization gorilla is going to do that much more harm (if at any?!). Keep the loaded rifle pointed as a precaution, not a first step..
Not trying to offend anyone. These parents are ultimately to be blamed. Not the child or the Gorilla...
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