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[Mechanized]

Doesn't sound like the mom knows she screwed up, but just excuses it as "accidents happen". She's more pissed off that people even criticised her parenting skills.

Wonder what her attitude to god would be if the kid didn't survive...

 

[The Artisan]

Well we are doing a shitty fucking job.

With the intellect we have, when we use it for the greater good we accomplish great things. But when it used with malicious intent, we are monsters.

And when we do nothing (when we have the power to make a difference) what does that make us?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

And of course no mention of the animal that had to die as a result of her negligence.

An animal that was currently in the process of murdering the kid.

 

[Volimar]

Not so stupid now, is it?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1218036

 

[RPGCrazied]

An animal that was currently in the process of murdering the kid.

Lets not go that far. In fact, the beginning of the video its quite obvious he was watching/protecting over the child, I mean he even helped him up to his feet!

He got nervous when the people began shrieking and panicking, making him panic. He wasn't going to flat out kill the child.

Accidentally? Maybe, he could have sat on the child I guess.

 

[Dunlop]

Lets not go that far. In fact, the beginning of the video its quite obvious he was watching/protecting over the child, I mean he even helped him up to his feet!

He got nervous when the people began shrieking and panicking, making him panic. He wasn't going to flat out kill the child.

Accidentally? Maybe, he could have sat on the child I guess.

It was because the gorilla was getting spooked that they had to kill him. It is so powerful that any sudden movement could have snapped the kid half.

They did the call to return to their cage but because of the agitation he didn't listen (the 2 female gorillas did)

The video of the kid being effortlessly dragged in the water shows a sample of the strength

 

[commedieu]

It's always about the convenience of the parents over everything else.

If it's not safe for small children to be around wild animals because they can't behave themselves, then maybe they shouldn't be allowed in the Zoo.

Perfectly rational thinking.

You're projecting about parents in your responses. The Zoo enjoys money from families, thats why the family friendly atmosphere. Its been 38 years with this exhibit. This is the first instance of a kid wandering into a pen iirc. Responding to that by banning children based on your research of awareness, isn't thought out.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

With the intellect we have, when we use it for the greater good we accomplish great things. But when it used with malicious intent, we are monsters.

And when we do nothing (when we have the power to make a difference) what does that make us?

The watchmen

 

[Volimar]

ITT: Gorilla behaviorists.


I remember the gorilla enclosures at the Columbus zoo. There's 360 degrees of enclosure and like two separate fences between people and the gorillas. The most a kid could get there is maybe a broken finger if they stuck it in the cage, but they can't actually get inside. Maybe something to think about Cincy.

 

[shira]

Lets not go that far. In fact, the beginning of the video its quite obvious he was watching/protecting over the child, I mean he even helped him up to his feet!

He got nervous when the people began shrieking and panicking, making him panic. He wasn't going to flat out kill the child.

Accidentally? Maybe, he could have sat on the child I guess.

They edited the video supposedly for violence as the gorilla was dragging the kid

 

[Kinyou]

An animal that was currently in the process of murdering the kid.

If the Gorilla had wanted to kill the kid, he would have killed the kid. The problem is that there was seemingly no way of getting the kid away from him without risking that he turns aggressive

 

[commedieu]

If the Gorilla had wanted to kill the kid, he would have killed the kid. The problem is that there was seemingly no way of getting the kid away from without risking that he turns aggressive

Idda pulled rank and tossed some food at the other side.

Probably would be on the cover of time by now.. making MILLIONS. Then I'd blow it all on cocaine.

Man, to dream.

 

[xRaizen]

Idda pulled rank and tossed some food at the other side.

Probably would be on the cover of time by now.. making MILLIONS. Then I'd blow it all on cocaine.

Man, to dream.

I'd blow it all on two chicks, man. That's what I'd do.

 

[RPGCrazied]

They edited the video supposedly for violence as the gorilla was dragging the kid

Yeah, but some say that is how they move their young. He just thought the kid was a baby gorilla.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Yeah, but some say that is how they move their young. He just thought the kid was a baby gorilla.

I don't think anyone wants to take the chance that they know exactly what a wild animal will or won't do.

 

[RPGCrazied]

I don't think anyone wants to take the chance that they know exactly what a wild animal will or won't do.

True. But the kid was with the gorilla for over 10 minutes. If he really wanted to kill the kid, he would have as soon as he made eye contact.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

True. But the kid was with the gorilla for over 10 minutes. If he really wanted to kill the kid, he would have as soon as he made eye contact.

or he could have a minute later. who knows? Not a chance I'd be willing to take, even if it weren't my kid.

 

[commedieu]

True. But the kid was with the gorilla for over 10 minutes. If he really wanted to kill the kid, he would have as soon as he made eye contact.

who makes that call though? The parents? The zoo?...

O..b..a..m..a...?

This is a good instance of easier said, than done. I'm on team gorilla, but given the circumstances, the fucked up circumstances leading to this happening. Meh, shoot it. Sucks, but.. these things should have a plan, and the #1 plan is to not be in this situation due to some good security.

I just saw Mission impossible 3. We could implant little tasers in their bodies. Or large amounts of dopamine or somethi.. bleh, wait. It would roll over on the kid. Ah well.

 

[Volimar]

Considering that even behaviorists disagree, I don't think GAF is going to be able to know what it was going to do. Regardless, small children aren't built to be treated that roughly.

 

[The Artisan]

That's the type of thinking which has ruined so much of our world.

let me ask you something. it's hypothetical of course, but if you had the resources to save only one between a starving animal and a starving child, that you would be conflicted on who to save?

Blame god or mother nature, whichever you prefer. Humans are ironically one of the few species with the ability for cross-species empathy. Almost no other animal species even has the cognitive capacity to give the slightest fuck about you.

Protip: Our ancestors wouldn't have survived if they'd seen animals as having equal value as humans.

that's the important thing here.

although...there is this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Opm9b2WDk

 

[RPGCrazied]

or he could have a minute later. who knows? Not a chance I'd be willing to take, even if it weren't my kid.

Sure. I just think something could have been done to lure the Gorilla away from the kid though. I mean, don't they have Gorilla experts there?

 

[Jeffolation]

The next time the gorilla dragged the child he could have ended up with a fractured skull regardless of whatever "motive" the gorilla had. The animal was killed, the child survived and it was the right call in a terrible situation.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

The next time the gorilla dragged the child he could have ended up with a fractured skull regardless of whatever "motive" the gorilla had. The animal was killed, the child survived and it was the right call in a terrible situation.

People expecting human or even human-like reactions from animals in extraordinary situations is, quite frankly, foolish. The animal is going to react in the only way it knows how to, and sometimes the byproduct of that is the human getting hurt or killed.

A perfect example is Roy's tiger.

 

[Squishy3]

Yeah, it's the "I think I'm doing good but don't understand my own strength" situation. A baby gorilla that had climbed up and fallen would have been able to handle being dragged around without any injuries, probably, but a gorilla doesn't know that a human child can't handle the same treatment.

And you can't really tranquilize the gorilla, because the tranquilizers wouldn't take effect immediately or even be effective and it could've gotten angry. It's a tragedy either way, but there's only one loss of life in this scenario versus the child potentially dying and the gorilla being put down anyway.

 

[starchild excalibur]

I don't know sometimes, though. Like what if a kid got into a panda exhibit?

7billion of us. Only around 3,000 of them.

I'd say one panda's life is more important than one human's life at that stage.

There are many who argue that we already spend so much time, money, and effort protecting a species like the panda which would have died out a long time ago due to no fault of humans. They eat food that gives them very little energy, have no natural predators, and require an immense amount of work to provoke into procreation. Short of the cute factor and the national pride they bring, I don't know that I'd say a panda's life is more important at all.

 

[Poona]

It's a tragedy either way, but there's only one loss of life in this scenario versus the child potentially dying and the gorilla being put down anyway.

I'd like to think that if the child had happened to die somehow in there (even though Harambe didn't wish him dead) that they wouldn't put him down afterwards for being a gorilla.

There have been other occasions around the world where humans have been gravely injured or killed (a few lion parks come to mind where you can drive through) and the animals were left to live afterwards and not die due to stupid behaviour of humans.

 

[The Artisan]

There are many who argue that we already spend so much time, money, and effort protecting a species like the panda which would have died out a long time ago due to no fault of humans. They eat food that gives them very little energy, have no natural predators, and require an immense amount of work to provoke into procreation. Short of the cute factor and the national pride they bring, I don't know that I'd say a panda's life is more important at all.

gonna have to agree with this.

 

[TimeEffect]

Man the animal rights activists are such morons.

Literally saw the gorilla drag the kid through water and one of the guy's says "i didnt see the gorilla harm the kid at all"

Regardless of any precautions, once you're in that situation, you dont take risks

 

[MIMIC]

Sure. I just think something could have been done to lure the Gorilla away from the kid though. I mean, don't they have Gorilla experts there?

The director of the zoo said that they tried something that. He said that they have a call or something that the animals are supposed to respond to. All of the other gorillas responded, except for the one in question.

 

[RPGCrazied]

The director of the zoo said that they tried something that. He said that they have a call or something that the animals are supposed to respond to. All of the other gorillas responded, except for the one in question.

Ah okay. Was probably thinking everyone was against the boy and was just trying to protect it. I understand why they had to down him, still bums me out.

I'm no PETA member, but I do love exotic animals. I love watching the NGW channel for those documentary's. Bums me out when one dies for no fault on their part.

Really need to watch some Gorilla ones to see how they live and thrive.

 

[The Artisan]

Man the animal rights activists are such morons.

Literally saw the gorilla drag the kid through water and one of the guy's says "i didnt see the gorilla harm the kid at all"

Regardless of any precautions, once you're in that situation, you dont take risks

it reminds me of the cat shit I posted earlier.

people wanted to hold the family fully responsible for what happened to the kid but I say god forbid, if the dog successfully killed the shit outta the kid, you're saying you would charge the family with murder?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Likely already said but a woman saw the mom and kid arguing with the kid repeatedly telling the mom he was going to get into the Gorilla's area.

Stupid mom caused an innocent animal to be killed.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Likely already said but a woman saw the mom and kid arguing with the kid repeatedly telling the mom he was going to get into the Gorilla's area.

Stupid mom caused an innocent animal to be killed.

Saw that too. That would have been the time to hold his hand for the rest of the visit, or leash him.

 

[The Artisan]

this is likely already said as well but the kid shouldn't have been able to get into the cage either.

 

[Lamel]

True. But the kid was with the gorilla for over 10 minutes. If he really wanted to kill the kid, he would have as soon as he made eye contact.

Are you some sort of expert that can predict exactly what the gorilla would have done? Nothing against you personally but you seem to be making conjecture that doesn't have any solid basis since you weren't there. The situation seems too high stakes to risk the child being killed. Everyone in the thread who is pretending to know all about animal behavior need to stop unless they actually have some sort of expertise. Put yourself in the situation of the zookeepers (people who actually work day and night with these animals), what would you have done?

This is a terrible story all around and I wish the gorilla did not have to die. Blame falls on both the parents and the zoo. However, once the child has fallen into the enclosure, I don't think it is wise to take a chance on the gorilla not harming him. Very sad all around.

Edit: Also to the "no kids allowed in zoos crowd"...lol.

 

[Pandy]

Likely already said but a woman saw the mom and kid arguing with the kid repeatedly telling the mom he was going to get into the Gorilla's area.

Stupid mom caused an innocent animal to be killed.

Unless she tossed the kid over the wire herself, then it was the shitty zoo security that caused an innocent animal to be killed.

This is all on the zoo. Not because they shot it, but because they failed to prevent the situation occurring in the first place.

 

[Grazzt]

Doesn't sound like the mom knows she screwed up, but just excuses it as "accidents happen". She's more pissed off that people even criticised her parenting skills.

It's hilarious that she thought God was awesome after this horrible incident.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Unless she tossed the kid over the wire herself, then it was the shitty zoo security that caused an innocent animal to be killed.

This is all on the zoo. Not because they shot it, but because they failed to prevent the situation occurring in the first place.

They're both at fault but watch your fucking kid, especially when they mention they are going to do something crazy.

 

[MIMIC]

Ah okay. Was probably thinking everyone was against the boy and was just trying to protect it. I understand why they had to down him, still bums me out.

I'm no PETA member, but I do love exotic animals. I love watching the NGW channel for those documentary's. Bums me out when one dies for no fault on their part.

Really need to watch some Gorilla ones to see how they live and thrive.

Here's the press conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K403M8PHCN8

It's about 30 minutes long. I don't exactly remember when he said it (because I saw it live) but....it's in there somewhere.

 

[innervision961]

So this narrative that the kid was telling his mother he was going into the cage is just hearsay? If so, then it doesn't belong in rational discussion, and even if that were the case, 3 and 4 year old children say all manner of ridiculous things all the time. If you took every threat a small child made to heart, they'd be gagged and chain like hannibal lector in silence of the lambs 24/7.

Facts are, the animal was dragging this child around like he was a rag doll, the experts that have lived and worked with this animal (presumably for some 17 years of the animals life) made the call to terminate said animal. This couldn't have been an easy decision, but it was obviously the necessary one or else they wouldn't have made it, and NO, they didn't decide to shoot the gorilla for fear of a lawsuit ffs.

News reports claim the mother of the child was at the zoo with said child plus three others, those that can't appreciate how fast something like this can happen with a small child don't have children and don't appreciate how quickly a child can get away from you. This isn't her fault, the kids fault, the gorillas fault or the zoo, this was a freak accident.

And to those who value the animals life over the childs, go live in the jungle with some great apes (who coincidently have a reputation for killing the babies from rival tribes by ripping them apart and smashing them against rocks, look it up!) then because we don't want you in our species anymore.

 

[Kinyou]

People expecting human or even human-like reactions from animals in extraordinary situations is, quite frankly, foolish. The animal is going to react in the only way it knows how to, and sometimes the byproduct of that is the human getting hurt or killed.

A perfect example is Roy's tiger.

I agree with that and shooting the Gorilla was likely the only way to diffuse the situation. But saying the kid was "in the process of being murdered" is kind of hyperbolic. If a Gorilla starts to murder you he'll get the job done.

 

[jellies_two]

Wildlife (not humans and their domesticated/feedlot animals) are down to 9% of the planets biomass now. Thats humans 91%, wildlife, 9%. Or thereabouts.

This last 9% is completely screwed if the value equation at work is saving any random human life outweighs the value of the last examples of entire species.
That is the economics behind rhino and elephant slaughter.

 

[The Artisan]

Wildlife (not humans and their domesticated/feedlot animals) are down to 9% of the planets biomass now. Thats humans 91%, wildlife, 9%. Or thereabouts.

This last 9% is completely screwed if the value equation at work is saving any random human life outweighs the value of the last examples of entire species.
That is the economics behind rhino and elephant slaughter.

random human life?

that kid is someone's son. someone's family. that kid could grow up and work to improve the 9%. of ALL endangered species, if he wanted to. he may not, but the human beings are the only ones who ever even do care about things like this.

 

[ErnieMcCracken]

Unless she tossed the kid over the wire herself, then it was the shitty zoo security that caused an innocent animal to be killed.

This is all on the zoo. Not because they shot it, but because they failed to prevent the situation occurring in the first place.

This exhibit was fine for 38 years until this mother and son. Mother should have removed the kid from the area if he was stating that he was going to enter it. 38 years of common sense being used until this duo. Not on the zoo. Sorry. Sometimes people need to be held accountable for their actions (or inaction).

 

[Azuran]

There's allegedly a post of the mother speaking out about the incident:

Not one single word about the death of the innocent animal. No remorse, no care, only that people are quick to judge. I fucking hate society.

Did God also force the kid into the enclosure?

 

[pswii60]

Doesn't sound like the mom knows she screwed up, but just excuses it as "accidents happen". She's more pissed off that people even criticised her parenting skills.

Needn't have shot that gorilla, God was saving the child anyway.

 

[The Artisan]

This exhibit was fine for 38 years until this mother and son. Mother should have removed the kid from the area if he was stating that he was going to enter it. 38 years of common sense being used until this duo. Not on the zoo. Sorry. Sometimes people need to be held accountable for their actions (or inaction).

Accidents happen. I'm guessing it's not often that kids try sneaking into the gorilla cages. But if they are successful in doing (obviously), then how in the fuck is that the mother's fault? Is she the one who designed the chambers?

 

[Polioliolio]

Rescue centers don't get the funding a zoo does. Once again, it seems topics like this all the supposed "experts" on zoos and animal captivity.

"Besides spending millions in research and enrichment to keep their animals healthy and active, zoos and aquariums are in fact the biggest reason that many of these species, including the lowland gorilla, are not completely extinct yet. Conservationists cannot get the money to do what they do without donations and the passion of the public. You take zoos out of the equation, most of that money disappears. "

-my roommate who has a Master's Degree in Primatology and pursuing this path as a Ph.D.

Spoiler

I basically let him type all that shit out on my computer lol

I believe you that zoos bring in money to help animals, but it's completely backward... Why is it that we let corporations and people in power do whatever the fuck they want, first, and then can only fight it with money raised primarily from a business opportunity? We need some forward thinking and some god damn ethics laws to control this shit, not some spattering of donation dollars.

And live animals don't need to be on display to pull interest. Dinosaur museums are extremely successful at drumming up enthusiasm.


It doesn't take an "expert" to tell you the best place for wild animals is in their natural environment.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

Unless she tossed the kid over the wire herself, then it was the shitty zoo security that caused an innocent animal to be killed.

This is all on the zoo. Not because they shot it, but because they failed to prevent the situation occurring in the first place.

I can't wait to be a parent. Nothing is your fault and everyone else is responsible for the safety of your kid.

 

[jellies_two]

random human life?

that kid is someone's son. someone's family. that kid could grow up and work to improve the 9%. of ALL endangered species, if he wanted to. he may not, but the human beings are the only ones who ever even do care about things like this.

Yeah Random to me and 99,99999% of people.

I'm just pointing out the implacable logic of saying that every single human life outweighs everything else leads the world to hell, life by life, creature by creature.

Kill all the sharks, that stops shark attacks. All lives matter, remember? Murder all the animals because 2 billion people find their body parts medicinal. Shoot all the tigers because they attack villagers. Kill all the elephants because they destroy crops that feed people. And so on, and so forth.

At some point, the last remaining species herds and animals do actually matter more than individual lives. Actually a point that we've long past IMO. Otherwise we'd have figured out how to stop the endless population growth and land clearing.