-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Gorilla killed after dragging child at Cincinnati Zoo
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
- Start date
- Status
Do people read a single post before responding to threads?
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Proof that dog owners are terrible people.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I'd like to spare a thought for the zookeepers, especially the one/s that pulled the trigger. This gorilla was born in captivity, and I think it's pretty god damn likely that his handlers loved him like family as well. They aren't sleeping tonight, that's for sure. It says a lot that they did what needed to be done to save the child.
Compare what they did to the statements coming from some of you who would let a child die over your dog.
Compare what they did to the statements coming from some of you who would let a child die over your dog.
shira
Member
Cartoon/TV tranqs don't work like that
Big Baybee
Member
Man, reading what witnesses are saying, I feel bad for that parent. Seems like a legit freak accident and now millions of people will label her a shitty parent/person.
Literally the worst. Your own morality isn't the only right answer. Neither is mine.
That's why people are so split on this case especially with the Gorilla.
Man we have a lot of parenting experts on GAF. Just out of curiosity, how do you know she didn't do that? How do you know what happened at all? What if she was at the mall holding the kid's hand and he still fell and cracked his head open on an escalator? Would you be on here asking why she wasn't holding both hands? This has never happened before, and everyone is acting like she should have seen it coming.
And a gorilla expert too! I'm going to trust the people who chosen to dedicate their lives to working with animals on this one. I'm pretty sure as soon as the gorilla feels he's under attack all hell breaks loose. The first shot had to be the last.
Out of curiosity what breed do you own?
Just a note - there isn't a written Manual on being a parent. There's common sense sure, but accidents do happen. No one is a perfect person let alone a perfect parent.
I don't know if you ever intend to be a parent, but if you do let's see if you get it right 100% of the time.
Of course, the times you don't get it right there's a scale. You'd hope you'd instil a sense of "don't go into the gorilla enclosure", but even stuff like that can be easier said than done.
And in all fairness, I've taken my kids to the zoo and I wouldn't expect my kid to be even able to access the gorilla enclosure at any capacity easily (as in within seconds).
And tranquilising has been discussed already.
BadAss2961
Member
Magicgamer101
Member
Don't really care if it was a freak accident on the parents part, an animal was killed because you couldn't look after your child properly. So yes I will call your parenting shitty.
Obviously a humans life is of more importance but it doesn't mean an animals life is worth nothing.
Also that comment about saving a dog over a child is disgusting.
Obviously a humans life is of more importance but it doesn't mean an animals life is worth nothing.
Also that comment about saving a dog over a child is disgusting.
Big Baybee
Member
So what makes your statement factual when people who were there are actually saying it happened within a split second? Does every bad thing that happens to child the product of shitty parenting?
CornBurrito
Member
I literally have no idea what you're even trying to say here. Our fucking ancestors likely had cross species empathy. Are you trying to say humans only developed it because we were so abusive to nature because that's demonstrably false.
"Almost" as in, only a handful of primates, dolphins, and elephants. Perhaps dogs. The list is short. Really short.
And humans have the greatest capacity for cross species empathy. You think humans are shitty for not giving a fuck about a random ass animal, but we're like one of 10 (at most) species that can even muster up a single fuck to give about a species that isn't ourselves.
This forum struggles to get OPs read sometimes...
You tryna stir up some dog racism in this already-total-mess of a thread?
Magicgamer101
Member
The facts are an animal was killed. If a parent lost their child for a split second and they wandered into a main road causing a serious accident and human lifes were lost I'd call that bad parenting as well. Cause it was a Gorillas life here people don't really seem to care.
CornBurrito
Member
Then you'd be wrong.
A ton of species are going extinct, and are only hanging on thanks to zoos and breeding programs in those zoos.
And sure, some of those extinctions are caused by humans in the first place, but so fucking what? We're a PREDATORY species. Other predatory species have also hunted their prey to extinction. Long before humans, and while humans existed. Those species should be glad enough of us even care enough to preserve them. Mother nature isn't lovey fucking dovey. It is survival of the fittest. It is bloody and there are only oh so many winners. You're not going to get a magical utopia of humans living in perfect harmony with nature. Such a utopia never existed, even before humans existed.
Also worth noting that humans are as much a product of evolution as a gorilla. We're quite literally natural. Our actions are just as natural as a lion killing baby lions to make female lions start ovulating.
Just for clarity's sake so we are all on the same page, would someone take a stab at laying out the argument for why the moral imperative is to save human life at all costs (ie, the sacrificing your dog to save a random child example) notwithstanding any attachment to the animal and other factors in play?
And no, I'm not advocating that the child should have been left to die in the gorilla cage, but I'm interested in understanding philosophical grounding for some of the positions in this thread.
And no, I'm not advocating that the child should have been left to die in the gorilla cage, but I'm interested in understanding philosophical grounding for some of the positions in this thread.
CornBurrito
Member
It somewhat ties into golden rule. How would you feel if someone saved their dog over a human child?
If you want to go Kantian instead, how would this world be if everyone gave more fucks about their dogs than other people?
If you want to go utilitarian instead, saving the child maximizes happiness. The loss of a child almost always will cause more net emotional harm than the loss of a dog.
Big Baybee
Member
Yes, an animal was killed due to an accident. Not an awful kid, not shitty parenting, but a genuine accident. Also what reality are you living in where no one cares that a gorilla was killed?
Uh, those situations are not at all analogous. I will concede that letting your child play in traffic is poor parenting. Without knowing more about the situation at the zoo I can't say the same. If she was tweeting out dank zoo memes for 3 minutes while the kid scaled the fence, that's bad parenting. If she turned around for 15 seconds to hand a water bottle to another kid and the boy leaped over the fence Bionic Man style, I can't hold her responsible. Whatever happened, I don't know enough to pass judgment.
She has two hands and 3 or 4 kids. She didn't just abandon the kid there to go eat lunch, he got in faster than anyone there could react. We are talking a matter of seconds and a kid doing something unexpected. He did say he wanted to go in, and she said no, which amazingly didn't work, because all 4 year olds listen and obey, right? No, one just opted to jump off a cliff to see a gorilla, which should tell you all you need to know about 4 year olds.
Nobody is to be blamed because clearly nobody anticipated 4 year old could bypass the security so quickly. At a zoo, you are more worried about losing a child in a crowd than jumping in with a fucking gorilla.
It was a tragic accident. Bad parenting is dangling your kid in the fucking enclosure so they can get a better look, not the lack of superhuman reaction times.
Regardless though, any parent witnessing their kid tossed around by a gorilla is probably never going to forget that.
The brightside to this fucking mess is now I know those fences are bullshit and shouldn't trust them to slow down a 4 year old.
Lol. I guess you're one of those people that thinks people talking about their kids is your cue to start talking about your dog as though they're somehow remotely on par.
Sucks for the Gorilla, but that kid was in legit danger with how he was dragging him/her around.. As always in these situation for me it comes down to human life >>>animal life.
^Lol people who refer to their dogs/cats as their kids always creep me out
^Lol people who refer to their dogs/cats as their kids always creep me out
The thing is, if it was a chimp, the kid would probably be in mortal danger. But since it was a gorilla, he was probably pretty safe...
People should just recognize the tragedy and also be glad the child was ultimately safe, but of course we are more chimp than gorilla.
it would be nice if this all ended with money being raised to help conserve and save gorillas and other animals, and also if the kid grew up to love animals and worked with apes.
someone should start a Harambe fund.
People should just recognize the tragedy and also be glad the child was ultimately safe, but of course we are more chimp than gorilla.
it would be nice if this all ended with money being raised to help conserve and save gorillas and other animals, and also if the kid grew up to love animals and worked with apes.
someone should start a Harambe fund.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Wow, this topic is developing into a place where people actually musing about the existential nature of mankind on this planet?
Huh.
Huh.
Haha. I would do this in my late 20's because I knew how stupid it was. Now that I'm in my 30's it's too depressing to do on my behalf.
What gross speciesism are you promoting, mate?
You would guess wrong then. It was merely a comparison.
bobawesome
Member
Same here, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Some random person's kid means absolutely nothing to me as cold as that sounds.
Messofanego
Banned
When your kid tells you beforehand that he wants to jump down into the enclosure, would you not grip the kid away from that place? All she did was say 'no don't do that' but didn't take any further precaution.
The same 4-year-old probably said that at every exhibit. "I want to fly like a condor," "I want to sleep with the bear," "I want to smell like the dolphin," "Do penguins come from ice cream land and are they made of Cherry Garcia?"
Unless they are hinting at abuse people generally don't take what 4-year-olds say at face value. How many 4-year-olds have you been around?
Magicgamer101
Member
If people prioritised their dogs life over an adults, I wouldn't understand but at least they've lived life abit. A dogs life over a child? I'm sorry you're a terrible human being.
WickedLaharl
Member
Well I would really hope that you realize that your line of thinking is not healthy. You might want to consider therapy.
Messofanego
Banned
None of those other statements come to reality as much as this kid's.
I like the completely pointless ad hominem at the end.
innervision961
Member
Have we moved on to slut shaming the mother for having kids in the first place and gone all gorillas in the mist yet?
Also, to the people saying they would save their dog over a random persons child, holy shit. I can't tell you that the decision to save the dog is morally wrong, but I can tell you that it makes you a selfish prick. A child dies a whole family suffers tragically, your dog dies, its your dog, you suffer for a while. NOT THE SAME.
Also, to the people saying they would save their dog over a random persons child, holy shit. I can't tell you that the decision to save the dog is morally wrong, but I can tell you that it makes you a selfish prick. A child dies a whole family suffers tragically, your dog dies, its your dog, you suffer for a while. NOT THE SAME.
No, I really wouldn't because:
A) 4 year olds say stupid things like that all them time.
B) I wouldn't expect a 4 year old to bypass the fence and bushes in a few seconds.
I haven't heard of kids going into zoos and jumping into enclosures on a yearly basis. In fact with the amount of kids that go to zoos it's safe to say that this falls squarely in the unexpected category.
lol, Ad hominem pointlessness.
"Here I am giving guidance on how to raise a child, oh you question if I have children or have been around them? Ad hominem."
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
Tranquilizers take like 10 minutes before they start to have an effect. At best, you would expect the shot to scare the gorilla away from the kid but it wouldn't physically prevent the animal from hurting the child.
Second, every parent loses their kid for a second. This isn't something you can pretend is preventable. It'll happen because no ones attention can be 100% focused at all times on the kid.
I don't meant to offend you but your comments were really glib and sanctimonious so do feel a bit ashamed for throwing the blame card out so quickly on what just looks like a freak situation.
Messofanego
Banned
Do you know what an ad hominem actually means? Oh wait, banned, so no point now.
I agree, it's people that have this sort of attitude that scare the living shit out of me.
brandonh83
Banned
Man, shit happens. It's not so cut and dry.
That's fine if you want to take that attitude, but it still doesn't shift the blame. If you're going down the street with four young kids and juggling groceries and you're trying to answer a phone call, and one of the kids runs into the street and gets run over by a car, it may not be a "cut and dry" situation for the parent, but the kid is still their total responsibility. In fact, the person who killed your kid would most likely sue for damages to the vehicle (I certainly would).
Yeah, I know it's tough to be a parent, but if you can't keep all your kids safe within reasonable expectations at all times, then you should probably make adjustments to alleviate the situation (ask a friend to come along and help, strap the kids into a stroller, hook them up to a leash, etc.) The rest of society can't be expected to bend to the will of an overwhelmed parent.
GamingOblivion
Banned
Did you, like, completely ignore what he said lol
No shit is the best place for these animals in their natural habitat. But guess what? The world just isn't like that. So my roommate has dedicated most of his life trying to conserve these animals in the best way he can. And according to him, zoos are one of the few things keeping many of these animals alive.
Not only this, these zoos give n interest in these animals to the children that visit. The children going to zoos today are the scientists saving them tomorrow. To complain about humans in general ruining these animals habitat should be something you take up with the human race as a whole rather than the zoo trying to play keep up with our destruction.
I don't think you realize how strong Gorillas are
They can lift cars like nothing
No one reads the thread before posting anymore. This has already been explain to being a very bad decision.
you would actually then sue them for damages?
Hip Hop
Member
A couple of sick (and ignorant "but the tranquilizers!!") people in this thread, that's all there is to it really.
- Status