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Gran Turismo 5 |OT2| We Love Cars
- Thread starter Goldrusher
- Start date
PetriP-TNT
Member
offshore said:
Not enough memory?
Well played ^_^PetriP-TNT said:Not enough memory?
Angst is right, there are plenty of amazing Forza 3 liveries out there. A livery editor makes your car feel more personal, plus you could show it off to the world through GT's amazing photomode or online races.
Sure, some people are going to design some right garbage, but should that be a reason not to include a feature that's not only now becoming a required standard, but also a feature that virtually everyone would enjoy?
Yeah, one day I was just going through looking at popular ones and shit, some people have some crazy skill.Angst said:
While I couldn't "art" my own cars up, I could generally do stuff with shapes/lines to make really nice racing cars that weren't over the top. While I got that game late, I found it very cool that people could make CR by selling their car tunings, liveries, cars, and all that. Auction house pretty sweet too.
I don't even need a livery editor, just custom colours would be enough in terms of personalisation to get me over the line. Just more events, and more variety in them, and fields that adapt to the speed of your car. Pretty sure GT2 had that to some degree, where has it gone?offshore said:
Gah, more game, less 'here's 6 unrelated events for you, then you need more xp' rubbish.
Toxa said:
No. No where close. Forza 1/2/3 has some amazing done cars with the livery editor. You just have to be willing to put in time to make the car not look like an eyesore with the 100(+? Now up to 500 in F3? 1000 in Forza 4?) layers that are possible to use on the car to make it look good.
Besides, Forza doesn't FORCE you to use the livery editor. If you want, just ignore it and paint the car the color you want. It's what I do.
"B-B-BUT I HAVE TO LOOK AT THOSE UGLY CARS BAWWWWWWWW"
dealwithit.gif, or bitch to Turn 10 to give an option to shush you.
GT5/6/on NEEDS to catch up to Forza. Hell, Forza 1 blows the pants off GT5 when it comes to the damage model and that was a LAST GEN game. Sad.
Psychotext
Member
I hate to be the one to say it... but there's a thread specifically for this sort of discussion. It's only a matter of time before someone says the wrong thing and noses get put out of joint.
TheSeks said:
there's a lot of people complain about standard cars
"B-B-BUT I HAVE TO LOOK AT THOSE STANDAR CARS BAWWWWWWWW" ....
personally I'm happy to drive my Dodge Viper GTS R Team Oreca (best car ever) and it's more important than a livery editor.
a livery editor is not an important feature which make a racing game better ... I want more track, more car, day/night + dynamic weather on every track, more option (choose the weather on arcade mode ...) no I don't care about livery editor
Risk Breaker
Member
I'm with Toxa on this one, I prefer having standard cars than a livery editor. Of course it's cool, but standards wouldn't go well with an editor, and I'm pretty sure memory would be a problem too. PD made a course creator/generator which must have taken around the same work than a livery editor.
OMG the calibra touring car '94 appeared on my UCD yesssssssss
OMG the calibra touring car '94 appeared on my UCD yesssssssss
offshore said:
Haha, I mean, I do not know for sure, but Livery Editor is really the one thing that stands out of GT philosophy. Really.
There is that infamous screenshot of Kazunori's GDC presentation in 2007 (can't find it for cure at this point) where Livery Editor is stated among other bulletins. But I really find that "Livery Editor" in the GT series language means something totally different than what majority of Western players would perceive as one.
Although I do not know for sure, nor I have the ways to find out, in my personal understanding of GT philosophy, Livery Editor would be a very limited editor in which we could manipulate body color, maybe separate chassis colors and some basic vinyls and their position - but nothing even remotely complex as Forza.
Also, I see something along the lines of GRID/PGR4 as most possible, but with great control over real options.
I can presume that both Yamauchi and Tadashi Terashima are not fond of doing anything to authenticity of the models and that anything like Livery Editor as we see it would be consider as sacrilege in their eyes.
I know that Western racing genre have no problems with that but I can also fully understand their philosophy of certain canons and keeping the very object of the vehicle intact from interventions which I presume they would view as heresy.
I can understand their reluctance for sure. You've spent six months modelling a car, suddenly someone comes along and plasters stickers all over it. I get that.amar212 said:
But this is a feature that's fast becoming a standard. I went through GT 1-4 and never once thought about a livery editor, but now when you look at the games that support one - and the amazing results they can produce, not to mention the way a car you could have spent months designing could be shown off through GT's exceptional photomode....honestly, I think the inclusion of a livery editor is now what a proportion of the audience expects as standard.
I now expect it, and I never once thought about it.
It would be an incredible feature, and I think once Yamauchi saw the extreme skill and craft that some GT players would go to with the livery editor - and they would - I think he'd realise that while it's fine cater to people who appreciate cars as is, it's better to also cater to those who want to take it to that next level of personalisation, rather than making that decision for them.
Toxa said:
The difference is, Forza has had a livery editor of 4 games. Other games are getting Livery editors. For most people, it's more important than track and weather. Sorry, man, but you're going to have to wait.
Standard cars are disappointing, and given how ugly some of them look to premiums (and hell some of the premiums can get downright ugly at times as well: Ford GT anyone?), I'd rather have a cockpit view and 200 cars if it meant a proper damage model + prettying them up in an editor.
In my world, though, damage modeling is more important than tracks and the pretty cars. GT5's damage model is HORRIBLE. There are times where I can tap a wall at 50 that generally wouldn't cause major damage (scrapes, basically) and the game will cause me to have damaged brakes/et. al. to drive with for a lap. Or you can purposely crash a car at 100MPH+ and the car won't even deform/damage. WTF.
Blu said:
Pure mechanical. Hitting a wall head on at 70MPH will kill your car in Forza 1. Full stop. You may be able to run it still (as it's a game) but it drops your speed. GT5's damage, again, it hit and miss and generally toward the miss. It's really sad after playing the Forza series.
And let's not mention the "point-to-point" races in GT5 are a joke. Hell, let's not mention that Forza 2 on have excluded them much to my dismay.
Psychotext said:
So, we can't compare GT5 with other racers on the market OBJECTIVELY in the GT5 thread? Gee, thanks Mr. Mod. I'll be sure to take you into consideration when I bitch bitch bitch about how disappointing the 5+ year development time of GT5 is and why they didn't even reach half the potential the other guys have.
brotkasten
Member
A livery editor might be "too much" for the holy GT series, but what about painting cars? Using paint chips for that is probably the most stupid design decision I've ever seen. /hyperboleToxa said:
And it's not like you can access dynamic weather in every part of GT5. I think it's not even part of A-Spec.
Then I don't know what to say to you.Toxa said:
A livery editor is absolutely becoming a standard feature in racing games whether you like it or not. Forza, Shift even NASCAR have one. GT doesn't. Yes I take amar's point about their reluctance but this is the 21st century.
You've got to move with the times.
I've made my case why it would be an incredible feature; you could share photos of customised car through GT's amazing photomode; you could take it online an show-off to complete strangers or you could be proud at your creation in the comfort of your own home.
Is it important as dynamic weather? No, maybe not. But it's a feature that GT now needs to support. Otherwise you're just standing still. Something which PD have been doing a lot of.
TheSeks said:
GT is a racing sim, and dynamic weather is a part of racing world, dynamic weather is a most popular feature for the big fan than a livery editor.
a game is suppose to be fun and driving starndar car is still fun, DTM cars, Le mans cars, ... are so good to drive they provides unparalleled driving pleasure and it's the core of GT since the first game.
they brought mechanical damages and that's not bad, comestic damages are cool but they can do better and that's more important than livery editor
Psychotext
Member
As far as the mods were concerned... no, at least when it comes to Forza. I have no idea if that still applies.TheSeks said:
brotkasten
Member
Is mechanical damage finally part of A-Spec?Toxa said:
It doesn't have to be on every track. Some events with dynamic weather in A-Spec would be a good start and make it less boring.Toxa said:
offshore said:
I'm quite sure they can bring livery editor via update
but for now there's more important, PD must work and correcting defects such as AI, Damage ... and a lot of stuff .a small detail like "Hard Racing Tire should last longer than soft tire" is more important than livery editor
and there's a lot of stupid flaws that can be improved.they can add more track, more cars (standar cars can become premium cars) , more features like export your replay in MP4 ...
they can do so much better with this game via updates
offshore said:
I disagree with that attitude in general. At the end of the day each development studio has a limited set of features they can get into their games, and what I want from them is to focus on what they want to do and push forward in that direction. Not look at the competition and end up with "everything the competition has, and much more!" that simply translates into a half-assed product.
So yes, while Forza has a livery editor the GT series also has quite a few unique features that you won't find in the other game. Be happy Turn 10 is not trying to build a Gran Turismo game and PD is not trying to build a Forza game. Enjoy these games for what they are.
Totally agree. If I have to choose between livery editor and the stuff above I will be glad to not have a livery editor.Toxa said:I'm quite sure they can bring livery editor via update
a small detail like "Hard Racing Tire should last longer than soft tire" is more important than livery editor
they can add more track, more cars (standar cars can become premium cars) , more features like export your replay in MP4 ...
they can do so much better with this game via updates
Although it would be hilarious if PD did include a livery editor, with the catch that you have to earn the decals/lines/colours by doing something utterly ridiculous.
33-Hit-Combo
Member
Angst said:
And you could only use them once
I don't disagree these are not important fixes, but the blunt reality is they should have been fixed in development and in the case of AI, it should have been fixed years ago.Toxa said:but for now there's more important, PD must work and correcting defects such as AI, Damage ... and a lot of stuff .
a small detail like "Hard Racing Tire should last longer than soft tire" is more important than livery editor
I'm not asking for "everything the competition has"; I'm asking for one feature that would be welcomed by a large proportion of the GT community. It just also happens to be a feature that has proved to be a great success in Forza 3 by bringing communties together and enhancing the online experience i.e. with the auction house. I don't understand how anyone could be against this in GT.Massa said:
Don't give them ideas...Angst said:
I agree with Toxa. I'd rather that PD focus on the actual racing aspect than livery editors and the likes.
Day/Night and weather are the most important features that need to be improved on. Followed by more premium cars and cars from different series eg BTCC. Livery editors would be right at the bottom of the list since it doesn't add anything to the actual driving aspect.
Day/Night and weather are the most important features that need to be improved on. Followed by more premium cars and cars from different series eg BTCC. Livery editors would be right at the bottom of the list since it doesn't add anything to the actual driving aspect.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Endurance series is the one that shows apparent dynamic weather in A-spec. Though I definitely remember being rained upon at Nurburgring, followed by sunny weather, and I haven't done the 24h there, so dynamic weather must have been prominent already in the extreme series.brotkasten said:
This is statement is completely flawed. Adding more features doesn't mean that PD are taking away the focus from the actual racing. I'm sure PD didn't pull the physics engineers off their project and say "hey, could you help us make GTTV?!"Dibbz said:
Adding a team to focus on one particular feature has absolutely nothing to do with the focus or otherwise of the racing.
The logical extension of your argument is that PD should have never add any features like Photo Mode, GTTV or Course Maker as they have nothing to do with the racing.
gutterboy44
Member
I am just hoping to see GT5 at the specs it should have been day 1. Things that came straight from the Kaz's mouth that would be in the game, things on the game box, etc but are somehow still missing. Sure more weather, cars and tracks would be great. For me the priorities are as follows.
1. Endurance race saves - I want to finish this damn game without abusing my PS3 more than I already have, fuck you b-spec
2. Proper Online functions - Leader boards, qualifying options for races
3. Better reward system (more XP and Cr.) and more events than occasional seasonals.
4. Ability to paint and add rims to more standard cars - I have hit my "collect them all" phase and I love making each car my own. I don't need a full blown livery editor but I would like to be able to change some things other than paint. Just let me put the number badge that is on the RM cars on all my cars!!! That is all I want, nothing major, just enhance what is already there.
1. Endurance race saves - I want to finish this damn game without abusing my PS3 more than I already have, fuck you b-spec
2. Proper Online functions - Leader boards, qualifying options for races
3. Better reward system (more XP and Cr.) and more events than occasional seasonals.
4. Ability to paint and add rims to more standard cars - I have hit my "collect them all" phase and I love making each car my own. I don't need a full blown livery editor but I would like to be able to change some things other than paint. Just let me put the number badge that is on the RM cars on all my cars!!! That is all I want, nothing major, just enhance what is already there.
PetriP-TNT
Member
I want full damage ala online to the seasonals
seattle6418
Member
What we´ve been saying for the last couple of years is that GT needs it´s Ryan Payton to change some odd and awful game design decisions.
Most of GT problems are not technichal ones, but instead they are a bunch of puzzling decisions.
We keep asking for this because nobody does Gran Turismo like Gran Turismo does. Some games might have better features, but they are not GT, that why we want "our" game to implemente some universal acclaimed features and options.
PD and Kaz had showed time and time again that one of their problems is that they are so closed and focus on their own development - and for so long - that they lost a bit of their connection with their fan base.
They need someone from the outside to give them ideas, suggest changes. I don´t think it´s just a community manager like Che was for Forza, because the way things are set up now, all ideas would be falling on death ears. They need a Ryan Payton, a guy that is a producer with a active voice to change the game.
Some of Kaz responses are actually funny, like on a recent interview in which he said "people want Midfield? yeah, we can do that", or back when they implemented HUD options after 10 years of people asking and he said "We could technicaly do this, if users want".
Asking for a gazzillion cars and tracks is asking for technichal work. I know i want some of those, but i understand the shortcomings.
But asking for common sense, that´s not hard.
GT5 can be a much better game (it´s already very good) with a few tweaks that we´ve been asking since release.
Most of GT problems are not technichal ones, but instead they are a bunch of puzzling decisions.
We keep asking for this because nobody does Gran Turismo like Gran Turismo does. Some games might have better features, but they are not GT, that why we want "our" game to implemente some universal acclaimed features and options.
PD and Kaz had showed time and time again that one of their problems is that they are so closed and focus on their own development - and for so long - that they lost a bit of their connection with their fan base.
They need someone from the outside to give them ideas, suggest changes. I don´t think it´s just a community manager like Che was for Forza, because the way things are set up now, all ideas would be falling on death ears. They need a Ryan Payton, a guy that is a producer with a active voice to change the game.
Some of Kaz responses are actually funny, like on a recent interview in which he said "people want Midfield? yeah, we can do that", or back when they implemented HUD options after 10 years of people asking and he said "We could technicaly do this, if users want".
Asking for a gazzillion cars and tracks is asking for technichal work. I know i want some of those, but i understand the shortcomings.
But asking for common sense, that´s not hard.
GT5 can be a much better game (it´s already very good) with a few tweaks that we´ve been asking since release.
seattle6418
Member
spats said:Payton propably isn't the best example. He ruined the MGS franchise and then bailed Konami to join Microsoft.
Different taste i guess. I personally loved MGS4 and the changes made in gameplay.
Still, i´m sure we can come up with a different example.
NullPointer
Member
Speaking of wanting things...
What are the chances we'll see new tracks, new premium cars, race mods, etc. in the near future?
What are the chances we'll see new tracks, new premium cars, race mods, etc. in the near future?
seattle6418 said:
Don't mind me, I was just being facetious. I liked MGS4 too.
NullPointer said:
There were rumors about Pikes Peak coming to GT5 some time ago but at this point I'm starting to think it was just hot air. Still surely there will be something down the line.
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2010/12/31/pikes-peak-to-feature-in-gt5/
It's the kind of game where you just assume there will be DLC because of how it's structured. A lot of people would propably gladly pay for new special missions so it's weird that they haven't come out with something.
seattle6418
Member
Don´t forget they visited, took pictures and scanned Spa Francorchamps, so it´s "in the pipeline" like they say.
People were surprised Spa wasn´t in GT5 from the start. Question is if they will hold for GT6 or release it as DLC for GT5.
Speaking of news, there´s a little interview with Kaz here: http://community.us.playstation.com/thread/3409863?start=0&tstart=0
(can´t give direct link, but on the first post of this one you can read it).
Even he admits the problem with clone cars and how this relates to the 90´s culture in Japan.
Back on point: he confirms they are working on cars and tracks, which is a very good sign.
People were surprised Spa wasn´t in GT5 from the start. Question is if they will hold for GT6 or release it as DLC for GT5.
Speaking of news, there´s a little interview with Kaz here: http://community.us.playstation.com/thread/3409863?start=0&tstart=0
(can´t give direct link, but on the first post of this one you can read it).
Even he admits the problem with clone cars and how this relates to the 90´s culture in Japan.
Back on point: he confirms they are working on cars and tracks, which is a very good sign.
NullPointer
Member
Great to hear. Of all things I'd like to see added it'd be more tracks, as well as more variations on those tracks through practice mode. Spa is one of my all time favorites so I'd pick that one up in a heartbeat.
TheSeks said:
Damage modeling is more important to you but please Kaz, don't listen to this man. Give me tracks and cars. Damage modeling...wtf. I don't aim to fuck up my car.
What game have you been playing? With full damage, your car can get fucked up mechanically. It is not an enjoyable driving experience.
Psychotext
Member
Not in the career you can't.Kaze13 said:
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
amar212 said:
hopefully it means the import/export option pc racing games use, these built in livery editors are clumsy and time consuming to use.
wallet raping time...
This was a given though, wasn't it ^_^seattle6418 said:
Maybe now that the pressure is off the car and track modellers in that there's no constant expectant release date, they can really knuckle down over the next two years and really build up the asset database for GT6 release in late 2012.
Dr Frasier Crane
Member
I think this comes to down to an issue with fundamentally different expectations for a game.
You see this from a lot of our (but not all) US colleagues. They all want:
Drag Racing
Livery Editor
Showing off your "pimped" car online
NASCAR
They've got a limited form of NASCAR but the rest isn't high priority as the game mostly sells in Japan/EU/Other where these things aren't wanted. I know there will be some exceptions to this but GT is fundamentally a game pitched at non-US customers I believe.
My 2p. Feel free to crucify.
You see this from a lot of our (but not all) US colleagues. They all want:
Drag Racing
Livery Editor
Showing off your "pimped" car online
NASCAR
They've got a limited form of NASCAR but the rest isn't high priority as the game mostly sells in Japan/EU/Other where these things aren't wanted. I know there will be some exceptions to this but GT is fundamentally a game pitched at non-US customers I believe.
My 2p. Feel free to crucify.
brotkasten
Member
The interview was funny. "Thanks for making us less grind in A-Spec, Kaz!" and "I'd have wanted another two years of development time" are the highlights. "We didn't communicate with other studios" gets an honorable mention.
GT6, PS3, $60. I'll be there, day one.
I really, really hope GT6 comes for the PS3. GT5 was one of the reasons I bought a PS3 and the main reason I bought a G27 and a PSeye and I don't think that Kaz has delivered the game he promised, hyped and wanted.offshore said:
GT6, PS3, $60. I'll be there, day one.