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Gran Turismo 5 |OT2| We Love Cars
- Thread starter Goldrusher
- Start date
They did provide lots of updates to GT5 Prologue. And that game wasn't even full price at launch. I think they will update GT5 as much as they can, simply because treating their consumers with nice things pretty much guarantees that everybody will pick up GT6 at launch.KingDizzi said:
Metalmurphy
Member
Dead Man said:
GT5 proved to me there is great hope for GT and that PD actually cares what we think.
Let's not forget that they have been adding on the previous updates EVERY SINGLE THING that people have been requesting like they made up a huge to do list and just have been ticking the boxes one by one.
(well, logical at least, xp complainers make no sense to me tbh, yes I do agree that the endurance races have stupidly low rewards, but I still don't get the "grind" hate. You unlock pretty much everything at level 20, the rest of the levels are just there to differentiate the drivers. Or is it just because of the freaking trophy?... )
Every time I read through this thread while banned I kept facepalming... Do people have short memories or something?
PD has done for GT5 more then any other developer has done for any other console game, EVER.
Bu bu bu... the game was shit/incomplete when it released... So freaking what? It was what it was, you bought it for what it was, yet they still kept, and will continue to improve it.
It's amazing how we are getting new A-spec events every single week, FOR FREE, when any other game company would just charge for them.
Angst said:
That's because it was a glorified demo, GT5 was a work in progress so as GT5 moved along they gave free updates in prologue. That will NOT happen with GT5, some design choices are beyond retarded but PD are not going to put in new tracks, cars for free and they are most definitely not gonna change the structure of the game. My guess is that Sony will make it a 'fuck consumers yearly' deal with GT and it will start with GT5. By that I mean a spec II you pay full price for, more cars and tracks this year but you will have to buy the game for $60 or if you already have GT5 it will be paid DLC. After all of the content PD gave with GT5, free stuff added on is just not going to happen. I've moved on from GT5, mates have moved on from GT5 and 95% of people on my friends list have moved on from GT5.
It's time for paid DLC or more likely a new game at this point. Not seen paid DLC since release, putting out new tracks and cars as paid DLC now is stupid considering they should have started Jan time if that was what they were gonna do. GT5 should have been an absolute goldmine were Sony gonna charge for DLC but really it looks to be a case where all new content is being held back for a new game. GT is still a big name, GT5 has shipped over 6 million copies and GT PSP 2 million so when NGP releases, having a GT game during the first 6 months would be hugely beneficial to them, it's a system seller.
Come on MM, you don't really believe that, do you? The updates PD have issued for GT5 are things that simply should have been there from day one. There's literally nothing that's been added to GT5 that is a brand new feature. Yeah, it's great PD have pushed these updates out and I'm in full support of it, but they're still a long way short of their competitors in plenty of areas.Metalmurphy said:
It's only going to be with GT6 where we see if PD realise that the series needs a cataclysmically massive overhaul.
Metalmurphy
Member
Kaz was pretty pissed every time anyone mentioned DLC, you should have seen that coming a million miles away.KingDizzi said:
I'm pretty sure a paid Spec II will be the most logical thing, I'm pretty sure it WON'T be full price though. I mean, they might re-release the game with the Spec II, for people that don't have the game (lol), at full price sure, but it'll also be a PSN add-on at a reasonable price.
Not only do I believe it but it's the truth. It does not matter if you think it should have been there day one or not. That was the game you bought, it is ALL post-release support. There's nothing that has been added that's a new feature? What about remote races? What about mechanical damage? what about the seasonals?offshore said:
And lets not forget about the tiny little things, that PROVE that PD knows what we want fixed. Stuff like, exporting all photos at once ("wait, that's people still aren't happy, lets add a way to select multiple ones instead of all of them"), allowing you to back up your save, different custom playlists for menu and races, speeding up the menus, etc, this isn't necessary stuff that should have been there to begin with (although quite obviously that kinda off stuff also existed and was fixed), it's stuff they decided to add cause WE requested it.
Metalmurphy said:
Remote Races were promised for YEARS (GT Anywhere) and wasn't there DAY ONE. Mechanical Damage was there DAY ONE but is disappointing.
Seasonals are the only "new" thing that wasn't really listed for years as being there DAY ONE. And while it's nice as a diversion, that's all it is: A diversion from the dismal EXP/Money grind of A/B-spec.
...And we requested it because some of the stuff should've been there DAY ONE. *bah-dum-psh* Let's not beat around the bush: If PD didn't have their feet held over the fire by us, we probably wouldn't have half these improvements. And even then we're still missing leaderboards for stuff like the Reasonably Priced Car. The function is there in the rankings for the time-trial/drift-trials of the seasonals but a full blown leaderboard isn't there and was advertised for YEARS. WTF, Kaz?
Yeah. I've tried to make this point multiple times. The only explanation I get, "but it takes sooo long!".Metalmurphy said:
I get it, and it does. I don't disagree that it's a long grind, but it's a pointless one. There is no infinite money at the end. It doesn't magically make the game do things it didn't do. So why exactly care if it takes a long time to get to 40?
The money issue, I do understand, and they should reward more. But for XP...its just something that should be re-thought for future games as they need to do something different for the career as a whole.
gutterboy44
Member
I have to disagree with you MM. A lot of those features you are mentioning were listed on the box, yet were not present at release. I consider that an insult, not a favor that they are patching the game to what not only should have, but was stated as the features present at release. Not to mention the fact some of the features on the box still aren't in the game! (online leader boards)
The Seasonals are pseudo content. They are there to subsidize the abysmal A Spec events offering. GT5 was released as a shit sandwich and they are desperately attempting to polish it.
They shouldn't have to respond to our demands because any competent developer who didn't have their head up their own asses smelling their own farts would have known they are considered standard across the genre. People shouldn't be grateful that Fallout NV is being patched to a playable level, it shouldn't have been so god damn broken at launch. GT5 is no different.
I still love GT5 and will probably play up until the day GT6 comes out, but my rose colored glasses are off. PD fucked up, and they are scrambling to rectify it. It isn't noble or generous of them, they should have done their job right the first time before taking people's money. Lastly...6 years man...6 years.
The Seasonals are pseudo content. They are there to subsidize the abysmal A Spec events offering. GT5 was released as a shit sandwich and they are desperately attempting to polish it.
They shouldn't have to respond to our demands because any competent developer who didn't have their head up their own asses smelling their own farts would have known they are considered standard across the genre. People shouldn't be grateful that Fallout NV is being patched to a playable level, it shouldn't have been so god damn broken at launch. GT5 is no different.
I still love GT5 and will probably play up until the day GT6 comes out, but my rose colored glasses are off. PD fucked up, and they are scrambling to rectify it. It isn't noble or generous of them, they should have done their job right the first time before taking people's money. Lastly...6 years man...6 years.
Metalmurphy
Member
Remote races were never promised. They were ONLY mentioned in Japan events and they were always part of the "The is just the start" sections implying it would be thing added in the future.TheSeks said:
Mechanical damage was not there day one. It was also never confirmed even though they mentioned it a few times.
Sorry but no. Some of the stuff they added was not supposed to be there day one. It was little things people realized, AFTER playing the game, that it would improve it, and they were added.TheSeks said:
Oh yeah, the leaderboards, that's another thing I forget to mention that you guys keep asking... the thing is, you guys are never getting full leaderboards, might as well stop asking. GT5P had them cause it was just 75 cars and no upgrades.
Can you imagine leaderboards for all 1000+ cars + 9 tyre combinations + physics settings + upgrades? Not to mention there's no actual way at the moment to force a car to be at default settings (something I wish it was added, do you hear my Kaz?)
Not happening. PD came up with a workaround by adding the seasonal leaderboards. Which kinda suck imo...
But again, patching the game with features that were expected anyway is hardly going above and beyond anything.spats said:
The stuff MM lists are completely logical things that shouldn't have needed the community to get them fixed. Yeah, it's great we can now export all photos, or backup saves, etc, but they should have been there in the first place.
Metalmurphy
Member
... Everything that we get front his point on can be something that should have been there in the first place if you look at it like that.offshore said:
I don't know what box you have but mine has nothing of the sort...gutterboy44 said:
1000 cars
damage (doesn't say it's mechanical)
3d visuals
Aspec and bspec modes.
That's all it says.
Metalmurphy
Member
*edit* ooops dp
brotkasten
Member
Metalmurphy said:
Should we thank Kaz for adding the open lobby with the 1.01 release patch? And what about G25/27 support? Will it ever come? Or do I really need to buy GT6 and hope Kaz included profiles for those lame peasant wheels?
Metalmurphy
Member
1.01 was a day one patch. It basically enabled all online functionality. It probably had something to do with the delay.brotkasten said:
G25 support is there. No idea what's going on with the G27 since I don't own one. I thought it did work, and even the LEDs did? oO
Mechanical damage was listed before release, at E3. They called it Physics-Affecting Damage.
http://eu.gran-turismo.com/gb/news/sp/d13413p4.html
offshore said:
They could've shipped a completely broken product, enjoyed the sales for as long as possible and killed off any support. I believe that they value their fans even if it may not always seem like it.
As far as expectancies go, they clearly overscoped themselves considering how small their team actually is but in the end they came out with a completely shippable product, although you are welcome to disagree.
If anything, I respect them for taking a big risk, even if it may not have fully paid off. There's too much derivative me too-shit in this industry that plays it safe, so GT5 was a refreshing break from that norm for me in that regard.
Agreed. Should be a simple add without making things too complex to get into the game.Metalmurphy said:
As for leader-boards, they should be in the game - since it is on the box. But I do see the same problem. Leader-boards would almost have to be fully open (any car and upgrade against anything), or locked down to specific cars at specific settings. Otherwise I fail to see how it's even possible.
Anything that's on the box, should obviously be in the game. But if you're grading them based on developers conferences and what not, what they show as wanting to do with the game is slightly unfair if they missed the target. Kaz often talks on twitter (not lately) about things he would have liked to be in, and its obvious that he wanted a lot of things that we do, but they couldn't get them to technically work or didn't have time to fit it.
So the question is, do they wait for GT6 and other hardware to get these features, or do they get the ones that are possible in a patch. Because as MM mentioned, Kaz is against DLC in everything that I've seen him make a statement on.
Metalmurphy
Member
For the record, I'm not arguing that GT5 was not a complete mess of an incomplete game. I was the first to say that GT5 was released way too soon.
What I am arguing is how everyone is up on PDs asses despite they're amazing post-release support that is unlike anything we've ever seen on any other console game ever. Everytime I read a post like that it leaves me smh. Or when people just argue stupid stuff that make no sense at all. That upset you can't get an easy platinum? Go buy that Hannah Montana game.
It doesn't matter if it should have been there in the first place or not... It does not invalidate the work they are doing. They could have done nothing and still have had the 6million + sales and move on to do GT6.
What I am arguing is how everyone is up on PDs asses despite they're amazing post-release support that is unlike anything we've ever seen on any other console game ever. Everytime I read a post like that it leaves me smh. Or when people just argue stupid stuff that make no sense at all. That upset you can't get an easy platinum? Go buy that Hannah Montana game.
It doesn't matter if it should have been there in the first place or not... It does not invalidate the work they are doing. They could have done nothing and still have had the 6million + sales and move on to do GT6.
Hum... my bad then.offshore said:
I'm sorry MM, it is great to have you back, but adding game design features that SHOULD have been there from day one is not great, it is a bare minimum in my book. I bought it day one, the shit was busted, they have fixed about half the small things, and none of the big things. I'm glad you are happy with the game, but don't try and tell people to smile while eating a shit sandwich. I don't know whose fault it is the game is not finished after such a long time, (6,5,3 years are all sufficient) but the simple fact is that a huge proportion of people that bought the game have been disappointed.Metalmurphy said:
When PD or Sony communicate about what their plans are, I'll start to listen and re-evaluate, until then they are firmly on my 'pay no mind' list.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
I have to agree with MM previous points. PD has been supporting GT5 like crazy, they have done more than any developer would have done fore a console game. What i don't get is people that use the excuse that "it should have been there in the first place" to dismiss the effort that PD have made to bring those updates. Its not up to us to decide whether certain features should have been there day one. Lets say after Forza 3 released that Turn 10 decide to update it by adding weather effects, will everyone start moaning that the feature should have been there in the first place? if something isn't on the disc when you bought the game then anything added afterwards is new whether you think so or not.
DAVE
DAVE
brotkasten
Member
Yes, the G27 "works", but it doesn't have an accessible profile and you can't configure the buttons, making the 4 additional buttons on the wheel useless. Using the GT Force (or whatever) profile doesn't work either.Metalmurphy said:
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Dead Man said:
But you see thats the problem, How many games have you had an influence over the development time, not many developers listen to their fans. COD doesn't get better but a flock of goose are still buying it (Millions of goose), How many times have Turn 10 updated their game? in fact how many console games has received this amount of post release support? i can only count a few. It seems to me that a lot of people are downplaying PD simply because they feel like it.
You're looking at it backwards. Was weather a feature in simulation games when FM3 shipped?GTP_Daverytimes said:
No it wasn't. GT had never supported it, bar for some "wet" tracks in previous. But now GT5 has weather and "proper" night racing, look what's happened. You've now got Forza players saying night racing and weather need to be in FM4 - which they do.
The point of a lot of players here is that Forza 3 has features that GT5 does not - features which some players, like me, are now expecting. Thing like a really deep level of car customisation and the superb online features FM has...people now expect these features in GT games.
It's called standardisation.
But they're not there. And if PD don't respond, they're going to fall even further behind than they are now.
Metalmurphy
Member
Driving Force Pro. All the buttons work and are reconfigurable on the G25, kinda weird they don't on the G27.brotkasten said:
To me they have taken a rather broken game and improved it to where it should have been at a minimum before they shipped it. As I said, I don't know why it happened the way it did, but it did. I am not going to give kudos to people for fixing something that should not have been broken.GTP_Daverytimes said:
But as always, this is my opinion, and to people that are happy with the game and PD's response, I say I am happy for you. But don't try to tell me what I should like or expect in a game after supporting the franchise since GT1.
Metalmurphy
Member
Active Aero and Backfire were in GT3. Only Forza 4 is getting it now, and people are praising Turn 10 for it (as they should). Are you saying they should be giving them crap instead like people are doing to PD?offshore said:
Also I'm sorry, but I don't look at other games when buying one game... Otherwise I would... you know, buy that other game.
And for the record, yes weather was indeed a feature on many many other sims. There's not just FM and GT
Risk Breaker
Member
I think PD is supporting the game very nicely (well until the earthquake anyway). I surely never expected to have a no HUD option.
There are still some things I'd like improved like the credits or paint system or having PSN IDs showing up in online replays, but they're minor.
I'm hoping for some free update after E3, and hopefully it's more about tracks than about cars. Monaco looks quite nice to me btw, and Trial Mountain looks better than Deep Forest
Either way I don't care how they look as long as they look like the ones we already have. They can keep the "premium" versions and new tracks for GT6.
There are still some things I'd like improved like the credits or paint system or having PSN IDs showing up in online replays, but they're minor.
I'm hoping for some free update after E3, and hopefully it's more about tracks than about cars. Monaco looks quite nice to me btw, and Trial Mountain looks better than Deep Forest
Either way I don't care how they look as long as they look like the ones we already have. They can keep the "premium" versions and new tracks for GT6.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
offshore said:
There were features in GT3 that Forza 3 didn't have, and i don't see Turn 10 receiving flank for it (Am gonna stop before this becomes an all out war lol)
Beating by: Metalmurphy
Maybe you don't, but Polyphony absolutely have to. You have to keep tabs of what's going on out there. But they're not. And it shows badly.Metalmurphy said:
And there's a reason why those other sims aren't as big as GT and FM. That's because most players don't care about raw simulation, they care about the game and its features.Metalmurphy said:
GT and FM are the two big ones. And if one starts getting left behind - like GT is - it won't be long before more people ditch GT and go the way of Forza.
Yeah like I said, GT has had "wet" tracks before, but not full on dynamic weather.GTP_Daverytimes said:
gutterboy44
Member
I am consistently baffled by design decisions that they made during a 6 year period. I can't believe at no point did it come up that knowing what cars you already owned would be an incredibly helpful feature to have from day one. It seems PD lived in a cave (their own asses, what better place to enjoy the smell of ones own farts) and only when they received the mediocre reviews and fan back lash did they realize... oh, wow, holy shit, other racing games exist out there and have surpassed us in many categories.
Even my non GT fan friends know jokes at the expense of PD. If you expect something logically to be in a game and it is not there...thats a PD move.
Even my non GT fan friends know jokes at the expense of PD. If you expect something logically to be in a game and it is not there...thats a PD move.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
gutterboy44 said:
Remember we all share the same thought, PD made some stupid choices and The UI design was horrible when it launched, where we start to differ is the whole hearted appreciation for the updates whether it be deemed a feature that should have been there or not.
DAVE
Metalmurphy
Member
Pretty sure most of those "stupid" things had to do with a rushed out release and not exactly an oversight.gutterboy44 said:
But the real problem here is you guys keep giving them shit no matter what they do and how much. Which was... you know, ALOT!
gutterboy44
Member
Most people who still post in this thread know, but for the sake of some new faces (which is great!) I will say the obvious one more time.
I am not a hater, this frustration just stems from the fact that I have been a huge GT fan since playing the import of GT1 on my moded PSX. Oh man, how I remember grinding high speed ring very early on till I got the 500,000 to buy the black Castrol Supra JGTC...oh man...so awesome.
I am not a hater, this frustration just stems from the fact that I have been a huge GT fan since playing the import of GT1 on my moded PSX. Oh man, how I remember grinding high speed ring very early on till I got the 500,000 to buy the black Castrol Supra JGTC...oh man...so awesome.
Risk Breaker
Member
I completely agree with MM in regards to the hate and crap PD gets. They are innovating, or at least they try to do it. And they still want to have a clear difference between their franchise and OTHERS. As MM said, if I wanted each and every of the features FM3 has, I would've bought that game and not GT5.
And no, weather and night racing are not "TOO SIM-ISH, PEOPLE WON'T LIKE THOSE" because as MM said, again, Forza fans now want to have both things in their game. And look at Shift, too. BTW a game that many people forget is 30fps when comparing it to GT5 :/ Weather and night racing are simply extremely difficult to achieve with the ram the systems have and at 60fps. But now PD is trying to make it a standard, at least in GT.
I want GT to improve, but I don't see, for example, a livery editor as a must. It'd be a cool and nice addition, for sure, but I prefer having double the frigging cars on track and the basis for night and weather on every track in the near? future, just to say one.
And no, weather and night racing are not "TOO SIM-ISH, PEOPLE WON'T LIKE THOSE" because as MM said, again, Forza fans now want to have both things in their game. And look at Shift, too. BTW a game that many people forget is 30fps when comparing it to GT5 :/ Weather and night racing are simply extremely difficult to achieve with the ram the systems have and at 60fps. But now PD is trying to make it a standard, at least in GT.
I want GT to improve, but I don't see, for example, a livery editor as a must. It'd be a cool and nice addition, for sure, but I prefer having double the frigging cars on track and the basis for night and weather on every track in the near? future, just to say one.
Metalmurphy
Member
gutterboy44 said:
Seems you are a bigger fan then I am. I started with borrowed PS1 + GT2. Was only amazed by the graphics in the replays and not much else. It was only later I got into driving karts, grew a passion for racing, raced them competitively for 3 years in 3 local tracks, passion grew to all sorts of motor racing, which led me to to GT3/GT4 (more for the ammount of cars then the actual driving) and all sorts of pc sims. Then GT5 came and it was basically a perfect mix of GT4 content with all the other great qualities of pc sims.
2010 GOTY for me, despite all the stupid shit.
captscience
Member
Metalmurphy said:
I don't buy this excuse of a rushed release. I understand that modeling the cars and tracks and everything else they included takes a tremendous amount of time. The problem is it seems like the actual game designers did nothing for all those years of development. I can see where graphical glitches and niggling bugs can sneak through in a rushed release, but there is simply no forgivable reason why the actual game structure is as weak as it is.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
gutterboy44 said:
Half of us are pure GT fans. First PD game i played was Motor Toon Grand Prix 2, back then they were called Poly's Entertainment or something like that. I fell in love with the game and the developer, since then i have played every single PD game (not necessarily owning them, i never really owned GT2). The formula has been the same since 2001 when GT3 A-spec released. To some thats not a good thing to others its absolutely beautiful. But formula and features are not the same thing (graphics have been improved immensely, physics have been overhauled, design is different, online, weather e.t.c). i usually laugh when someone says that PD are stuck in last Gen, But i bet you that every game will be using GT5 as a benchmark, even reviewers will be using GT5 as a benchmark in the coming year or two.
Dave
gutterboy44
Member
I would like to see GT get a full overhaul. The only thing I would want to keep in terms of the single player campaign are the license tests. I have always loved them. First thing I do in a GT game is gold all of them.
gutterboy44
Member
offshore said:Listen to this man, PD. A massive overhaul to the series is desperately needed.
Speaking of license tests and golds, they need to make this car from GT2 premium and make it a reward for golds again. Awesome machine.
Shit yeah! Loved that and the FTO LM. They were my jam. The FTO LM is in GT5 but not Premium.
I'm still missing a handful. I think like 12 that I'm stuck on silvers. Not to say I try doing them very often...gutterboy44 said:
Usually if we've been practicing a certain track for one of the leagues -- I go back and do any full lap license tests on said particular track and gold it on first try. I actually have more problems with their tests that are just certain sections.
And I'm still totally stuck on that fucking slalom cone drill in the Toyota....fml
gutterboy44
Member
brentech said:
Start with late apexes and slowly decrease your apex and accelerate out of the last few cones. Here is a very rough diagram demonstrating what I am talking about. Most people do the early tight apexes at the beginning cones but you need to restrain yourself and build speed.
The throttle an apex mapping is very rough, just to show the general concept.
Spectral Glider
Member
Difference of opinion...I hate the license tests with the burning fire of a thousand suns.
Anyway, as far as the GT support...I loved the first big update they did. The rest has been so-so. Glad they're doing it, I just wish they'd add something more substantial in the coming months.
Anyway, as far as the GT support...I loved the first big update they did. The rest has been so-so. Glad they're doing it, I just wish they'd add something more substantial in the coming months.