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Gran Turismo 6 |OT| Moon Rover The Castle

ruttyboy

Member
You guys need to stop pretending that rolling starts instead of standing starts have anything to do with performance.

It has everything to do with shit AI.

I wouldn't say 'everything'. The AI would undoubtedly make a hash of it, but the only races I've come across FPS issues in have been the kart races where, thanks to the standing start, there are far more cars on screen than usual. Even the replays have slowdown.

Also, there's only just over two hours of the 1st of Jan. left here, where's the Red Bull stuff?
 

WoolyNinja

Member
Starting playing this game 3 days ago and I can't stop! This game is so much improved over GT5. There's so much to do, load times are very fast, and the menus work much better this time around.

But its the variety of events that keep me coming back. The 3 cars in the first 3 Goodwood Festival of Speed time challenges were so fun to drive and all handled completely different. So good!
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
You guys need to stop pretending that rolling starts instead of standing starts have anything to do with performance.

It has everything to do with shit AI.

It definitely has something to do with it. The races would start with crap performance.
 

benzy

Member
Those Vettel challenges need to hurry up. I got a feeling we're getting another update along with the challenges since they're taking so long.

Also made a gif using photomode, it was sooo tedious...

willow-springs-gt6ubsnd.gif
 
You guys need to stop pretending that rolling starts instead of standing starts have anything to do with performance.

It has everything to do with shit AI.

Red bull races have grid starts. And I don't notice performance drops (then again, I also have flicker reduction on).
 

-Amon-

Member
You guys need to stop pretending that rolling starts instead of standing starts have anything to do with performance.

It has everything to do with shit AI.

I'm not sure about the AI but what's certain is that in a standing start you have far more cars directly ahead of you. In GT rolling starts you have one car ahead and quite far away, than another and so on.

On turn one with rolling starts you usually have no more than 2 cars around. With standing starts you could easily be surrounded by cars.

COULD be an AI problem but for sure it IS a performance problem.
 

pixelbox

Member
Happy new year gentlemen :)

With wife and little boy on vacation i finally had the chance to drive a little in GT6, finally with my G27.

Made some runs in GT5 too while i was at it, i was courious about some posters in this thread that said that GT6 is a graphical downgrade over 5.

I have to say that they were right, memory served me bad. GT5 has a cleaner look to me. The difference is not that big but it is there i feel. Nothing that big but it's there.

Speaking of driving, it looks like that even with ABS etc etc off, and using the gated shifter of the G27, they left in some auto throttle blip while downshifting. In GT5 with ABS off you where forced to blip the throttle while downshifting, or rear axle lockup occurred while shifting from 3rd to 2nd, when you disengaged the clutch. I find this a good thing, being too difficult do heel and toe with the g27 pedals.

Apart from that, i like driving in Gt6 more than in 5. Can't really pinpoint why, that's the problem :) I used my go to cars ( the yellowbird and the F40 in stock form ) in both sims at suzuka for comparisons. The RUF is easier in GT6. Her ass feels less snappy on corner entry and exit. The F40 has more general understeer in GT6, but can bite harder when you play too much with the trottle mid turn to help her rotate.

Other thing i noted is that now bumps and curbs really upset the grip of the car. In GT5 you could ride almost all the curbs ( only exeption if i remember well the inside curb of lesmo 1 in Monza ). In GT6 you have to pay great attention when coming off of every curb.

Nice.

Feels nice using a wheel in Gt after so many months... i'm having fun.

I would say that the only downgrade was the damage model and rain effects on wind shield. And for the latter it isn't really a downgrade, more like different effects as they are higher in res. Other than that it's a huge improvement. Less screen tearing better, physic model, and dat dust and smoke particle buffer filtering.
 
I'm wondering how you came to this conclusion.

Because 16 cars on screen does not deteriorate your framerate to unplayable levels, and it'll last just a few seconds.

Those few seconds, are also how long it takes to go from last to first with standing starts with GTs current AI. That's the real problem and why you have rolling starts.

GT offline right now is all about trying to maneuvering around those moving obstacles in a set amount of laps. It's the only way the game can actually be fun with AI that just can't do turns at good speeds.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
But that doesn't make total sense to me. Most races in GT6 now only have six cars. If it wasn't a performance concern, why not add another 10 cars to the track and put them further up in the field? That would give you even more time before you got to first.
 
The Red Bull stuff is due on the 2nd isn't it? At least that's what the official website says

Furthermore, a second bonus event is planned to be held from 2 January 2014 3:00AM GMT to 30 January 2014 3:00AM. Again, this event will allow you to win up to 6,000,000 credits when combined with the Consecutive Login Bonus, so if you participate in both special events you could earn up to 12,000,000 credits!

http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/news/00_5757249.html
 

TTG

Member
Apart from that, i like driving in Gt6 more than in 5. Can't really pinpoint why, that's the problem :) I used my go to cars ( the yellowbird and the F40 in stock form ) in both sims at suzuka for comparisons. The RUF is easier in GT6. Her ass feels less snappy on corner entry and exit. The F40 has more general understeer in GT6, but can bite harder when you play too much with the trottle mid turn to help her rotate.


Alright, I thought I'd try both games back to back(haven't touched 5 since 6 was released) before finishing a comparison on the driving, but here are some more general impressions after 60+ hours with the new game:

-Everything that happens after the grip lets go is a substantial improvement. On the player's end a lot more delicacy is required. The days where I could just snap to opposite lock out of slow corners and hold it there until the ship righted, then continue as before are gone. Steering corrections now have to be a lot more minute and accurate because the pendulum effect of over correcting will absolutely bite you. By the same token standing on the throttle and steering your way out of a slide is almost obsolete on all but the slowest cars, I actually spun a number of times on some easy corners before this became clear. I think a lot of it comes down to the tire model, temperature especially. It used to be that I noticed the tires turning red on the display, the only real consequence being tire wear down the line. Now, if you lay down rubber and leave smoke behind in a corner you better be damn careful coming out of it, those tires don't behave at all similarly to how they did on the way in.

-Turn in seems to be busier. I don't remember thinking about lift off over steer once while playing GT5. Plan of attack was to get off the brakes and glide along to the apex. There's more finagling and settling the car now, not a a ton more, but appreciable on a number of cars. I don't want to make it sound like everything in GT5 was so nimble and adroit that you clipped the apex unless you put on the brakes too late or turned in too early. There were whole adventures of understeer, some enough to make you never touch a car after all of half a lap of driving. GT6 just seems more multidimensional, I don't know.

- Downforce at high speed? I'm going by the huge downforce on the DeltaWing and such, or car slalom at 250+ in the Veyron for the "Like The Wind". This probably needs to be tuned to be more noticeable, but it's there. The steering is suppose to feel a lot heavier at speed and it delivers more than GT5 did, even if the effect is blunted.

-I thought improved suspension would be a lot more apparent than it has been. Visually it absolutely is, but as a tangible effect on how the car behaves? I don't know. Does the corkscrew at Laguna Seca seem so formidable now because the suspension loads, then goes light, then bottoms out again in the span of like a second? Nope. Does the roll of a Trans Am play a role in how you drive it versus a BMW GT3 car, no. Certainly they're worlds apart, but not necessarily because of how flat one car corners. Looks and visual ques(at least in bumper cam) is where that stuff matters.

Now, for the back to back comparison done in a C6 Z06 Vette at Nurburgring GP:

-First thing to notice is the huge and way exaggerated nosedive in GT5 when you step on the brakes. Holy shit it's bad. And, of course, when you let off and initially turn in it has the visual impression of the car being snapped and tugged into the corner because the road is no longer taking up most of the screen.

-Trail braking seems a lot easier in GT6's Corvette. Can't really say why, I don't have to consciously make the decision, it just works.

-That thing about corner exits and over correcting oversteer? The well mannered car on that track makes telling the 2 games apart really hard in that department. It does snap to a opposite lock degree of yaw quicker and it won't balk at correcting any oversteer with maximal steering input(as far as the DS3 goes), but there's not a lot between the 2. I suspect if the track was Laguna Seca things would be different.

The rest looked pretty damn close. There it is, some really anecdotal evidence. I would love a proper interview, postmortem if you want to call it that, about what's going on under the hood.
 

Yiazmat

Member
i actually noticed something off in these shots you posted in the photo thread:



the placement of the liveries doesn't seem to match up.

kaz please no
lol

How did they miss that michelin logo on the side when there's another one right close to it?
 

TTG

Member
Dat accuracy. I can't even imagine what sort of wizardry PD must be doing with the PS4.

Car models aren't the bottleneck, they should keep the premium cars where they are for the rest of the PS4 lifetime. Bring up the favorites from standards, say 200-400 cars and that's it, apart from cars new to GT obviously. The priority is how the game runs and how the tracks look. No more flickering, ailising problems, tearing and especially shadows/lighting problems. The tracks need to be redone, down to GT5 stuff like Laguna Seca and Nurburgring, they didn't look spectacular when they came out and it's really getting old now.

Other than that, it's a matter of getting the resolution on textures high enough and fidelity on their tessellation, add some dirt or something?
 

Repo Man

Member
To hell with all the Kart events! Did the International-B 3 race kart championship yesterday and on the last lap of the first race I cocked up and hugged the wall for a good 3 secs which was enough for the AI to overtake and cost me the race so restart the championship! Second race now and I forget to up the karts top speed as this is the short silverstone track with a few long straights so after a lap and a half I realise that shits not gonna work and restart championship! grrrrrrrr!

On the 3rd go I managed to clear the whole thing even though the last race was pretty damn close and I almost lost it again on the final lap. Don't get me wrong I like a tight race, infact I prefer it that way but I just hate them karts because they feel very unpredictable when cornering or should I say maybe too precise for the DS3 and my fumbling fingers.

I get that theres people who like these kart things, I get that a lot of pro-drivers started their careers with karting and PD feels they wish to pay some kind of homage to this but I liked all the kart shit in GT5 because it was more of a nifty little side thing and thats how it should have been in GT6 rather then having them in the mix with the rest of the races and cups. Thats just me though.

Also...

Karts suck!
Karts suck!
Karts suck!
 

TTG

Member
To the people asking for actual stop starts(like myself), read the post above. That's at least a part of why PD refuses to do it. Real starts -> much tighter competition -> people flipping out because they're losing for perceived minor errors. If they don't field a competitive field to race against it will be even more absurd for a majority of players. If they do, people will howl and their proclivities lately have been to make the difficulty... friendlier.

I'm not picking on you either Repo Man, but that's how racing is. In a real competition you don't get to come back from 3 seconds wasted to a spin(forget a wall) within 8 minutes or however long it takes to go around those really short circuits 5 times. You get a 60+ minute race, a season long championship with over a dozen events, something PD can't realistically do. The solution isn't obvious is what I'm trying to say.
 

Jabba

Banned
Because 16 cars on screen does not deteriorate your framerate to unplayable levels, and it'll last just a few seconds.

Those few seconds, are also how long it takes to go from last to first with standing starts with GTs current AI. That's the real problem and why you have rolling starts.

GT offline right now is all about trying to maneuvering around those moving obstacles in a set amount of laps. It's the only way the game can actually be fun with AI that just can't do turns at good speeds.


Gotta agree about the AI. PD really needs to fix this shit for series to climb higher imo. In some of the races I've noticed on the map the top 3-4 cars are very close to one another. As you pull closer to the 4th place car, the 1st place car pulls out a substantial lead. Makes me go, wtf?

They need to fix AI and have damage modelling, better sounds and definitely full grids on PS4. At least 24 cars on a grid.
 
New seasonal events are up, still no Seb stuff though....
The S2000 and Lancia trials are pretty damn easy. Generously so, and can be done with few modifications. Someone skilled could probably do it stock.

I'm irked that the 15th Anniversary event is impossible to beat unless you had a Gamestop pre-order (US, at least). Trying desperately hard with my Amazon pre-order cars I can't see how 2:15 is possible with the GT special cars (R8, R35) versus the LMP (R18) car pictured in the thumbnail. A driving god could probably pull it off but as a mere mortal I miiiiiiight be able to get the silver with a lot of work. Of course I hate the idea of special events for these in the first place since it screws anyone who didn't pre-order but that's a separate issue entirely. Catering to just one pre-order locale is even meaner.

Mind you I'd forgive this all in an instant if they would just unlock the Red Bull events...
 
So I'm trying to beat the National B GTR Mission Race.

It's the first time in the game I have become stuck, and fuck me...seriously, 2,000 is all I will get if I win.

Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking.

I've almost maxed out an Astin Martin One 77 and it's the only thing stopping me from trading this thing in.

I would be 100 x more entertained if I could actually afford to spend money on shit.
 

Raggytash

Member
The S2000 and Lancia trials are pretty damn easy. Generously so, and can be done with few modifications. Someone skilled could probably do it stock.

I'm irked that the 15th Anniversary event is impossible to beat unless you had a Gamestop pre-order (US, at least). Trying desperately hard with my Amazon pre-order cars I can't see how 2:15 is possible with the GT special cars (R8, R35) versus the LMP (R18) car pictured in the thumbnail. A driving god could probably pull it off but as a mere mortal I miiiiiiight be able to get the silver with a lot of work. Of course I hate the idea of special events for these in the first place since it screws anyone who didn't pre-order but that's a separate issue entirely. Catering to just one pre-order locale is even meaner.

Mind you I'd forgive this all in an instant if they would just unlock the Red Bull events...

I've only tried the spa one so far, I'm using the Huayra I got from Amazon. I'm not exactly amazing at this but silver is doable, I'm about 2 secs off. Gold can Fuck off though haha.
 
So I'm trying to beat the National B GTR Mission Race.

It's the first time in the game I have become stuck, and fuck me...seriously, 2,000 is all I will get if I win.

Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking.

I've almost maxed out an Astin Martin One 77 and it's the only thing stopping me from trading this thing in.

I would be 100 x more entertained if I could actually afford to spend money on shit.
Skip the career and mission stuff for now and do other things. The Seasonal Events are very very generous on payouts and give back tenfold even if you have to purchase a car fresh for the events and tune them and that's before any login bonuses. Otherwise, the Goodhill events have minor payout and a few usable cars as prizes. If you don't have PSN access or you're really focused on moving ahead, note that the missions are entirely optional when it comes to getting your next licenses.

Despite how much the game really wants to insist, not all cars with equal PP are at all equal. Not even close. With some bankroll you'll have an easier time with the other events trying a few different cars if need be. Look for cars that you can use in multiple career events and it's possible to get 15+ unique wins with a single cheap-ish machine. Example-- A British car European lightweight compact MR drivetrain NA engine you can run anywhere between 400 to 500PP events is an '07 Lotus Elise. I think that's 7-8 separate race categories. In a situation if you're unable to get online for the Seasonals this is pretty efficient.
 

ruttyboy

Member
Because 16 cars on screen does not deteriorate your framerate to unplayable levels, and it'll last just a few seconds.

Those few seconds, are also how long it takes to go from last to first with standing starts with GTs current AI. That's the real problem and why you have rolling starts.

GT offline right now is all about trying to maneuvering around those moving obstacles in a set amount of laps. It's the only way the game can actually be fun with AI that just can't do turns at good speeds.

Two things with this, firstly, as far as I know, the only races that have standing starts are one make races (karts and X2014 Junior), this would point to some kind of technical limitation as presumably it's easier to clone the same model 16 times than have 16 different instances.

And secondly, the karts certainly (haven't tested it with the X2014) don't have to worry about you overtaking them at the start as they use their bullshit physics to cheat at the start anyway. I tried to gear my kart down to accelerate faster than them, couldn't do it, and their top speed was still much higher than mine.
 
Skip the career and mission stuff for now and do other things. The Seasonal Events are very very generous on payouts and give back tenfold even if you have to purchase a car fresh for the events and tune them and that's before any login bonuses. Otherwise, the Goodhill events have minor payout and a few usable cars as prizes. If you don't have PSN access or you're really focused on moving ahead, note that the missions are entirely optional when it comes to getting your next licenses.

Despite how much the game really wants to insist, not all cars with equal PP are at all equal. Not even close. With some bankroll you'll have an easier time with the other events trying a few different cars if need be. Look for cars that you can use in multiple career events and it's possible to get 15+ unique wins with a single cheap-ish machine. Example-- A British car European lightweight compact MR drivetrain NA engine you can run anywhere between 400 to 500PP events is an '07 Lotus Elise. I think that's 7-8 separate race categories. In a situation if you're unable to get online for the Seasonals this is pretty efficient.

Yeah just made 2 million doing seasonals.

What is with the online component, I just won a race around a small track with an aston martin, it was a go kart track. I got no money for winning.
 

Gjerven

Member
During the S2000-seasonal my game froze, then the PS3 restarted it self, showed a yellow light, then started to blink red :(

I'll see if I can fix it myself, if I can't then the PS3 has to become cheaper for me to buy another one or I won't play GT again until it's on PS4.
 

XJF

Member
What car did you guys use for the Rainmasters set in I-A. Normal car 650pp or less.
Reg McLaren F1?
 

ruttyboy

Member
The S2000 and Lancia trials are pretty damn easy. Generously so, and can be done with few modifications. Someone skilled could probably do it stock.

I'm irked that the 15th Anniversary event is impossible to beat unless you had a Gamestop pre-order (US, at least). Trying desperately hard with my Amazon pre-order cars I can't see how 2:15 is possible with the GT special cars (R8, R35) versus the LMP (R18) car pictured in the thumbnail. A driving god could probably pull it off but as a mere mortal I miiiiiiight be able to get the silver with a lot of work. Of course I hate the idea of special events for these in the first place since it screws anyone who didn't pre-order but that's a separate issue entirely. Catering to just one pre-order locale is even meaner.

Mind you I'd forgive this all in an instant if they would just unlock the Red Bull events...

Yep, this is total balls, I was forced to attempt it in a Hauauyura, I basically had to try and drift up Eau Rouge at 150mph to keep up with the R18 in the first sector, then the twisty second sector it just leaves me for dust as I just don't have the downforce in the corners. Could only manage a 2:17...

On a related note, I really wish you could filter the rankings by assist use, being surrounded by people using SRF means I've no idea how well I'm doing.

Also, still no Redbull, what a laugh.
 

OnkelC

Hail to the Chef
What car did you guys use for the Rainmasters set in I-A. Normal car 650pp or less.
Reg McLaren F1?
i did it with the Hurrhurrhurr from the Anniversary Edition and Racing Soft (!) tires. gas and braking like a feather helps a lot.
 

arttq

Member
What mods did you do to it? I don't want to spend loads of money doing up a car I'll probably never drive again...
I used this tune (without SRF) that I found on gtplanet:

Racing Suspension: Hard
Brakes 6:4
Max Speed 217mph
Standard Diff
Triple Plate Clutch Kit
Stage 2 Engine Tuning
Catalytic Converter: Sports
Stage 3 Weight Reduction
Window Weight Reduction

Then power limited to 94.6% and 156kg ballast at -50 (right at the front), giving a 51:49 distribution.
With SRF on it's probably a lot easier.
 
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