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Gran Turismo 6 |OT| Moon Rover The Castle

Write some code, like Durante did, and send it to Polyphony.

AI, no matter how many times we try to spin it, even in games like forza 5 is shit. You have an illusion of good AI but not really autonomous AI. If they did they would be coding at DARPA.

Now, let's factor in the fact that the ps3 has less memory than the xbox 360 and is 7 years old....yeah

BS non answers. GPL, a game that released in 1998 had better AI than any GT games has ever had. There is no excuse. AI in racing isn't fucking sentient robot AI. There are some very very very basic concepts to racing, to make it believable at the surface level of racing against another car. The AI in GT and especially GT6 basically achieves, "the cars go around the track in the right direction" out side of that, they seldom demonstrate believable racing behavior. But no, please, go on about Durante and how that is even remotely similar to this. Man, I thought we had brought all of the PD apologists out of the wood work with all the micro transaction threads but boy was I wrong.
 
Anyone else notice that the free 15th Anniversary cars sound more weedeater-like than their normal counterparts? The regular C7 Vette sounds V8-ish; the 15th Ann. version like a Hoover. Same with the other "15th" cars.

Glitch or did the engine notes for all of the 15th cars become more wheezy since they are all slightly modded?

Its because they standard have a exhaust upgrade, but unfortunatly the standard exhaust isnt an option on them :(

I noticed an exhaust sound glitch btw, when you buy al the exhaust types.
Then when for example u do a free run, go to car settings, select an exhaust.
Now go back to start race menu, and go back in to car settings, and select another exhaust.
Now it will have the sound of the earlier selected exhaust but its an different exhaust type :)
Foul around with it and sometimes u can get the max power with stock car sounds(wich most of the time are the best sounds).

Funny thing is this worked in gt5 asswell, untill they patched it :(
 
Are people really defending the AI...? come on, it is borderline awful.

Why does physics not apply to their vehicles.
Why are they unable to avoid collisions when you make clean passes into corners.
Why do they insist on ruining races by spinning you out in situation where they could obviously avoid contact (from behind)
And so on.
 
I'm sorry I have to take this side bar, but I think I have been contributing enough on topic posts for the last few days and I am not gonna take a personal attack lightly.

Ah, I see my friend nibbles98 quoted me on the last page (he has long been on my ignore list) Do not take any opinions about, Sony, GT or me from this guy with even so much as a molecule of salt. He was no where back in the early and pre GT5 threads when we were all sinking 100's of hours in, all giving lots of positive and negative feedback, like a reasonable person would. I have heaped posts upon posts of praise about GT games, especially in the comparison threads, but nibbles came to the table late when we have all long digested GT5 and started discussing what we need and want from this franchise as die hard fans. Not only did he respond with one of the most childish tantrums I have witnessed on GAF, seriously this is by even GAF standards bad. You can also see him littered across PS4 XB1 threads constantly losing his shit in a similar manner when things are said against Sony. He has a horse in this race and it is Sony without a doubt. Talk about GT critically, you are insulting his mother apparently. It is a perfect game guys, move on or shut up.

Take my opinions for what they are worth to you, but I am by no means some negative nancy about GT games. They have and always will be my all time favorite franchise and if we had a heat map of my posts in GAF it would be weighted heavily to GT threads and sim racing. I have thousands of hours in the GT franchise, I have ridden a bike miles at midnight in the cold, on a school night to get a japanese version of GT2 (I played both GT1 and GT2 to completion in both Japanese and US versions), and I take it all very seriously, admittedly to a fault sometimes, but we all have our moments. GT is near and dear to my heart. I get critical cause this franchise needs a foot up the ass and a wake up call. We can have GT greatness on PS4 but it is not going to happen if GT6 is any sign of things to come. Seriously, base your opinions on me yourself, not a tantrum throwing fanboy. I am typically content to ignore callow GAFers but I am not going to let some one who is clueless about racing and sim racers sully my name in the few threads I give a shit about on GAF. Cheers. Again, sorry I had to post this, but you know, honor and all that shit.. blah blah.

RE: the head lights. This particularly bothered me because I find myself turning the gamma down due to the over done bloom, and then all of a sudden I have to turn it to max and it doesn't make anything visible. It definitely needs some tweaking.

Anyone know what today's patch patched?
 
Despite being a big GT fan, I had no hype for this one and haven't picked it up yet. By what I'm hearing in this thread, it doesn't seem worth it? Might skip and wait for GT7 on PS4

I'd say having no hype is the ideal situation to picking this game up. It is far more playable/approachable than GT5, and if you have overlooked or been able to overcome a lot of long standing GT flaws and still found fun in the past titles, I think you will enjoy GT6 enough to warrant the $60. Bathurst and night dude... nuff said.

Edit: You have to realize there are vastly different types of posters in GT threads around launch. Some of us expect a lot, others are not so demanding on GT titles. Watch the Giantbomb Quick Look of GT6. I was surprised at how much they seemed to enjoy it. I think that is a good illustration to how the game reads to people who don't have as much invested in the franchise like myself and some of the other more vocal posters.
 

scandisk_

Unconfirmed Member
I'm sorry I have to take this side bar, but I think I have been contributing enough on topic posts for the last few days and I am not gonna take a personal attack lightly.

Ah, I see my friend nibbles98 quoted me on the last page (he has long been on my ignore list) Do not take any opinions about, Sony, GT or me from this guy with even so much as a molecule of salt. He was no where back in the early and pre GT5 threads when we were all sinking 100's of hours in, all giving lots of positive and negative feedback, like a reasonable person would. I have heaped posts upon posts of praise about GT games, especially in the comparison threads, but nibbles came to the table late when we have all long digested GT5 and started discussing what we need and want from this franchise as die hard fans. Not only did he respond with one of the most childish tantrums I have witnessed on GAF, seriously this is by even GAF standards bad. You can also see him littered across PS4 XB1 threads constantly losing his shit in a similar manner when things are said against Sony. He has a horse in this race and it is Sony without a doubt. Talk about GT critically, you are insulting his mother apparently. It is a perfect game guys, move on or shut up.

Take my opinions for what they are worth to you, but I am by no means some negative nancy about GT games. They have and always will be my all time favorite franchise and if we had a heat map of my posts in GAF it would be weighted heavily to GT threads and sim racing. I have thousands of hours in the GT franchise, I have ridden a bike miles at midnight in the cold, on a school night to get a japanese version of GT2 (I played both GT1 and GT2 to completion in both Japanese and US versions), and I take it all very seriously, admittedly to a fault sometimes, but we all have our moments. GT is near and dear to my heart. I get critical cause this franchise needs a foot up the ass and a wake up call. We can have GT greatness on PS4 but it is not going to happen if GT6 is any sign of things to come. Seriously, base your opinions on me yourself, not a tantrum throwing fanboy. I am typically content to ignore callow GAFers but I am not going to let some one who is clueless about racing and sim racers sully my name in the few threads I give a shit about on GAF. Cheers. Again, sorry I had to post this, but you know, honor and all that shit.. blah blah.

RE: the head lights. This particularly bothered me because I find myself turning the gamma down due to the over done bloom, and then all of a sudden I have to turn it to max and it doesn't make anything visible. It definitely needs some tweaking.

Anyone know what today's patch patched?

Kinda feel the same way, GT is my all-time fave series too (post history says it all). I feel that GT5&6 are in line with the PS3's philosophy "It Only Does Everything" problem is that 'everything' includes half-baked features, inconsistencies, etc which sucks. Hope this changes on GT7 and focus on the core just like the PS4. Iron out the core fundamentals of the game and everything else will follow.
 
Kinda feel the same way, GT is my all-time fave series too (post history says it all). I feel that GT5&6 are in line with the PS3's philosophy "It Only Does Everything" problem is that 'everything' includes half-baked features, inconsistencies, etc which sucks. Hope this changes on GT7 and focus on the core just like the PS4. Iron out the core fundamentals of the game and everything else will follow.

What concerns me the most about GT6, is that it seems PD was completely oblivious to all of the things they got right with GT5. They actually did do some good things in 5 and there are some welcome additions to 6 but if they are just spitballing with no idea what their strengths and weaknesses are, it doesn't bode well for the direction they will be heading for GT7. There are other gafers who can speak more to the corporate layout of PD, but the feel a restructuring at the very basic level of management needs to happen to begin to revise the franchise as a whole.

As for my posts last night, I won't play GT and have GAF open at the same time anymore. To easy to post raw reactions to a race mishap or issue that surfaces. I'll sleep on them for now on, perhaps that will tone dull some of the sharper edges I am starting to point at PD again.
 

bud

Member
i'm repeating myself, but i do feel that this game needed another year of development, and that they rushed it out of the door to make its 15 year anniversary.
 

offshore

Member
^ Agreed with you, bud.

Been with GT6 a few days now, and I think it's time to send it to CEX for £30 vouchers before that value plummets.

Prize car list decimated, prize payouts pathetic, Seasonal pay pathetic, AI atrocious, Special Events gutted, RA menu nixed, Community page nixed, photo sharing vanished, gifting vanished, car sharing vanished, online profile page vanished, avatars vanished, an online lobby that has gone so far backwards it's actually fucking fallen over, Licence test times that are ridiculously easy, offline races that are beyond broken, pathetic amount of courtesy Arcade cars to choose from, sounds that are.... yeah.

I don't really want to go on.

In fact, GT6 has really made me appreciate GT5 a lot more. One example, when people like me were moaning about Premium/Standards being segregated in GT5, I don't think people meant lump them all together and make them indistinguishable; rather, just don't put Standards in a moronic cyclic UCD. Lumping them altogether like PD have done is just... so dumb.

And also, this bullshit about "oh, micro-transactions aren't in your face" is total horseshit. They may not be in your face, but the intention is obvious, and those ITT and others either defending it or proclaiming that it's "not in your face" should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
 
The game just seems too familiar. Sure the driving physics are better (slightly), but this game just strikes me as an expansion pack with a few extra cars and tracks. GT7 needs to be a revolution, not just another GT.

I'm enjoying GT6... I'm just not noticing any significant progression (though Bathurst is a big +).
 
So whats up with having to update the pictures of your garage one by one. Weirdest thing I have seen in the game.

Its weird how PD can do all kinds of wizardry with adaptive tessellation and physics but dont even know how to put static jpgs of cars in a user interface.
 
I think we need to get the official, NeoGAF GT7 design document going. Then we can tweet blast it to Kaz's face. Which one of you has gotten Kaz responses on twitter before? You will be our ICBM strike to the big man himself.
 

dubc35

Member
The game just seems too familiar. Sure the driving physics are better (slightly), but this game just strikes me as an expansion pack with a few extra cars and tracks. GT7 needs to be a revolution, not just another GT.

I'm enjoying GT6... I'm just not noticing any significant progression (though Bathurst is a big +).

I've only played a couple hours but I would agree so far. The leap from 5 to 6 is just not as apparent as it was from 1 to 2 and 3 to 4.

You've also used the work revolution, that does not compute with PD. We're at our 6th iteration, it is what it is. Unless sales drastically drop worldwide nothing is going to change.


I think we need to get the official, NeoGAF GT7 design document going. Then we can tweet blast it to Kaz's face. Which one of you has gotten Kaz responses on twitter before? You will be our ICBM strike to the big man himself.

No responses from me. :( ...but all I basically do is complain about forcing on SRF lol
 

dalin80

Banned
i'm repeating myself, but i do feel that this game needed another year of development, but that they rushed it out of the door to make its 15 year anniversary.

I think GT5's lengthy development cost GT6 massively. PD were left with very little time to either produce one of the last PS3 titles or start again on PS4. Too little time with too few people and no interaction with the community.
 

nasanu

Banned
77780gufr.gif

That is only other game I mentioned with a suspension model like GT6's genius. But its broken, sure it looks good in that video but wait till you own it as I do. The cars rock from side to side like boats, and the 458 is a bit of an understeering pig. But it should not be much of fix for them.

As for the rest of you, stop being such fanboys. PC != sim. And if you bother to reply, try replying to what I said rather than the straw men you create.
 
Prize car list decimated, prize payouts pathetic, Seasonal pay pathetic, AI atrocious, Special Events gutted, RA menu nixed, Community page nixed, photo sharing vanished, gifting vanished, car sharing vanished, online profile page vanished, avatars vanished, an online lobby that has gone so far backwards it's actually fucking fallen over, Licence test times that are ridiculously easy, offline races that are beyond broken, pathetic amount of courtesy Arcade cars to choose from, sounds that are.... yeah.

I don't really want to go on.

In fact, GT6 has really made me appreciate GT5 a lot more. One example, when people like me were moaning about Premium/Standards being segregated in GT5, I don't think people meant lump them all together and make them indistinguishable; rather, just don't put Standards in a moronic cyclic UCD. Lumping them altogether like PD have done is just... so dumb.

And also, this bullshit about "oh, micro-transactions aren't in your face" is total horseshit. They may not be in your face, but the intention is obvious, and those ITT and others either defending it or proclaiming that it's "not in your face" should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
Welp, I'm having a great time. I absolutely love the fact all the cars are in a big list. What on earth is 'so dumb' about showing all the cars in a list? It highlights the duplicates and the disparity between model quality, but this is far outweighed by the ease of access. I had absolutely no time for the Used Car section in GT5, which needed constant checking to see if what I wanted had become available. It was a ridiculous system, and made most of the cars worthless to me.

I find the AI to be largely hilarious, just amusing obstacles to negotiate - and it can be pretty fun when trying to defend your position against a much faster opponent. If you match their PP too closely they're easy, so I'm making it very hard for myself by choosing woefully inadequate cars. I've always found racing games to be like this - making up my own challenges.

Prize cars have seemed fine so far... Special Events have a nice flow... I'm not seeing a massive difference compared to GT5 in these areas, although I really wanted to see more events like the Grand Tour, and I haven't seen anything like that.

Never got involved with online in GT5 so I can't say much about that.

The biggest difference is the menus, which are still not the fastest in the world, but they're fast enough to make me not want to eject the disc. I mean I really had to force myself to play GT5 at times, felt like a chore. GT6 is enjoyable almost all the time simply because of the menu/loading improvements.

Physics, well it's a step forward, feels very nice at times, and I'm glad they finally did something about ABS 0.

And microtransactions? Well I guess I should be ashamed of myself, because they haven't once crossed my mind while playing.
 

conman

Member
Despite being a big GT fan, I had no hype for this one and haven't picked it up yet. By what I'm hearing in this thread, it doesn't seem worth it? Might skip and wait for GT7 on PS4
It's definitely the worst GT game I've played. That's not to say it's bad, but it's not a step forward for the series. I've only spent 4 or so hours with it, which is nothing for a GT game, so I can't say I have a definitive opinion yet.

But here are my preliminary opinions:

Overall, I'd say the game is visually troubled, and that's nothing to do with being last gen. I've had multiple regular drops below 60fps during racing, regardless of the number of cars on track. Screen tearing is much more abundant than in GT5. And it just generally doesn't look as "slick" as GT5. Tracks and environments have a gritty, grainy, rough look to them. I miss the polish of GT5.

Many of us have already lamented the serious sound issues. Folks complained loudly about the sound in GT5, but I thought it was spot on. It was detailed, crisp, and responsive in all the right ways. But there are some unforgivable sound problems in GT6. Most engine sounds are muffled, regardless of camera view. And many are subject to distortion even at moderate volume. There is also no difference between the sound mix in bumper cam and in cockpit view. Since those are the two views I regularly use, it was immediately noticeable. And when your tires go off (which happens too easily IMO), the squealing sound is unbearable and prone to serious distortion at even moderate levels.

Also, the game is simply too easy. The big draw for me has always been the challenge. Shaving off tenths or hundredths of seconds to lap times and license tests is the thrill of the game. But in GT6, there's simply no challenge. Cut-off times for golds are simply too low and easily reached in one or two tries. Admittedly, I'm not that far into the game (third-tier racing and licenses), but so far it's a cake walk. And glancing at the PSN trophy list, that will also be a cake walk. Compare that to the trophy list on GT5 which took me three years of off and on again playing to approach 80% completion.

The AI has never been what the GT games are about, so I'm not too worried about them. Except... the cars the AI uses should be regularly trouncing me. The PP rating far exceeds mine, and yet I can sail past them with little effort. That suggests that the AI isn't actually using the cars it looks like they're using, or they're being seriously hamstrung for no good reason. You used to have to work to build a car even capable of beating the AI before you could sail past them. They never put up a fight, but at least you had to outclass them in prior GT games. Now, I could fly by a car with 150-200 PP more than me. That's simply unacceptable.

On the plus side, the UI is the best its ever been. But for me, I'd take the crappy GT5 UI over a ho-hum GT game any day.

That's it for now, but I'm unimpressed. I can only hope this game gets the dedicated series of (awesome) title updates that GT5 got. But with sales already showing a huge dip, I worry that that won't happen anytime soon.
 

Xanadu

Banned
That is only other game I mentioned with a suspension model like GT6's genius. But its broken, sure it looks good in that video but wait till you own it as I do. The cars rock from side to side like boats, and the 458 is a bit of an understeering pig. But it should not be much of fix for them.

As for the rest of you, stop being such fanboys. PC != sim. And if you bother to reply, try replying to what I said rather than the straw men you create.

i didnt see you mention AC in your post, i just replied to that one post so my bad, and i do own AC and its MILES ahead of GT5 in terms of physics, i havent played GT6 but i doubt its THAT much of an improvement
 
So whats up with having to update the pictures of your garage one by one. Weirdest thing I have seen in the game.

Its weird how PD can do all kinds of wizardry with adaptive tessellation and physics but dont even know how to put static jpgs of cars in a user interface.

The thing is those pictures end up representing exactly how your car looks like, as opposed to a generic one that doesn't show the aero, wheel, suspension, color changes that you end up making. IIRC pulling up my Countach in FM4 won't show the red/white livery I put on it. I may be mistaken.

I think we need to get the official, NeoGAF GT7 design document going. Then we can tweet blast it to Kaz's face. Which one of you has gotten Kaz responses on twitter before? You will be our ICBM strike to the big man himself.

It's always been a dream of mine to design a GT game! (No joke).

I would love this idea. No bullshit allowed though, can't stand derails. I have so much to say and offer regarding a new GT.
 

nasanu

Banned
it's stone age and completely terrible tyre model ruins 90% of the suspension simulation.

I'll ignore the rest of what you said because it is just silly, but what is wrong with the tyre model?

Personally I think that they reach core temperature too fast and its too easy to overheat them. But then I am happy to keep it this way because most races are only a few laps anyway and it adds another element to the driving. Perhaps they just need to couple that with the wear rate option.

But other than that (which many PC 'sims' dont even yet model), how is the tyre model stone age?
 
The thing is those pictures end up representing exactly how your car looks like, as opposed to a generic one that doesn't show the aero, wheel, suspension, color changes that you end up making. IIRC pulling up my Countach in FM4 won't show the red/white livery I put on it. I may be mistaken.

Thats cool and I understand but there really isnt a reason for the game to not generate that jpg right after you paint the car, maybe when you exit the Garage menu. Just giving you ideas for when you design your GT game.
 
Thats cool and I understand but there really isnt a reason for the game to not generate that jpg right after you paint the car, maybe when you exit the Garage menu. Just giving you ideas for when you design your GT game.

On a newer system, it can probably do all that in the background, but the PS3 is at it's limits with this game.
 

nasanu

Banned
i didnt see you mention AC in your post, i just replied to that one post so my bad, and i do own AC and its MILES ahead of GT5 in terms of physics, i havent played GT6 but i doubt its THAT much of an improvement

Well be sure to keep jumping into threads and injecting your opinions about games you have not played then, I am sure everyone appreciates it.

And yes GT6 is THAT much of an improvement in suspension and tyre modeling. The modeling of the drivetrain is still lacking (torque steer, clutch etc) and GT will likely never have all the things that PC racers equate with sims, like race ending damage and flags, stuff that really doesn't have anything to do with driving.
 

nasanu

Banned
It's definitely the worst GT game I've played.

I agree with all you said. However for me the offline game has turned into a chore I have to complete to collect some cars to go racing with. When I am doing what I want to be doing, racing online, it is the best GT game I have played. I guess I don't really care what PD do as long as they give me a great physics model and a varied selection of cars in a robust online mode.
 
The thing is those pictures end up representing exactly how your car looks like, as opposed to a generic one that doesn't show the aero, wheel, suspension, color changes that you end up making. IIRC pulling up my Countach in FM4 won't show the red/white livery I put on it. I may be mistaken.



It's always been a dream of mine to design a GT game! (No joke).

I would love this idea. No bullshit allowed though, can't stand derails. I have so much to say and offer regarding a new GT.

Me too. I have a background in product design so I have some experience involved with designing things, but never games. However, since I wouldn't be actually programming the game so much as laying out the design document, it wouldn't be the worst jump. It would obviously mostly be for fun. The last time I genuinely sketched out a game idea when I was younger, it came out in real life and it was called Silent Scope. The first time I stepped into an arcade and saw Silent Scope, my jaw dropped. I was like, "this is my game! They read my mind!" I was obsessed with snipers when I was younger, even joined the military to become one (9/11 happened and I never had the chance to go to sniper school :( I don't think I would have passed anyway but it would have been an experience, and by the time things settled I was done with my service)

It has been snowy as fuck and I have some days off coming up, maybe we can kick it off. I am not a great graphic designer though. Maybe after a rough draft someone can gussy it up for us before blasting it to Kaz. It would be fun to layout all the ideas bouncing around my head for years regarding GT.
 
I'm on the fence about picking up this game. Sadly, it appears that the AI has many of the same problems from GT5 as discussed in length. However, I am also interested in some of the physics improvements and damage. For those that have some time in it, could you comment/provide your impressions on the new tire and damage models? More specifically:

Tire Modeling: Are temperatures/pressures/tire flex modeled in the game? Can you see this information in the telemetry and use it to tune the car?

Damage: How is the mechanical damage? Can you damage engines/transmissions by not driving/shifting properly? Does body work damage effect the aerodynamics of the car? Are there any general improvements over GT5 in this area?

Thanks in advance.
 

Xanadu

Banned
Well be sure to keep jumping into threads and injecting your opinions about games you have not played then, I am sure everyone appreciates it.

And yes GT6 is THAT much of an improvement in suspension and tyre modeling. The modeling of the drivetrain is still lacking (torque steer, clutch etc) and GT will likely never have all the things that PC racers equate with sims, like race ending damage and flags, stuff that really doesn't have anything to do with driving.

i've been a huge GT fan since the first and i just find it funny people still think console sims have anything on PC sims, i have not played GT6 you are right, but i just know it wont match to even rfactor from 2005 8 years ago. same as when GT5 came out and even forza 5, people bragged about them surpassing even PC sims, this happens every time
 
Me too. I have a background in product design so I have some experience involved with designing things, but never games. However, since I wouldn't be actually programming the game so much as laying out the design document, it wouldn't be the worst jump. It would obviously mostly be for fun. The last time I genuinely sketched out a game idea when I was younger, it came out in real life and it was called Silent Scope. The first time I stepped into an arcade and saw Silent Scope, my jaw dropped. I was like, "this is my game! They read my mind!" I was obsessed with snipers when I was younger, even joined the military to become one (9/11 happened and I never had the chance to go to sniper school :( I don't think I would have passed anyway but it would have been an experience, and by the time things settled I was done with my service)

It has been snowy as fuck and I have some days off coming up, maybe we can kick it off. I am not a great graphic designer though. Maybe after a rough draft someone can gussy it up for us before blasting it to Kaz. It would be fun to layout all the ideas bouncing around my head for years regarding GT.
Are you me? That was one of my favorite games as a kid.
 

scandisk_

Unconfirmed Member
It's always been a dream of mine to design a GT game! (No joke).

I would love this idea. No bullshit allowed though, can't stand derails. I have so much to say and offer regarding a new GT.

So who's making the thread then? We'll just derail this thread if we keep posting some ideas on here.
 

DinnerRevealer

Neo Member
My only real problem so far is the lighting. Even in the dealerships, it's too dark, it's like try need to turn up the brightness some and turn down the contrast. I haven't even tried to race at night yet.
 

Emwitus

Member
BS non answers. GPL, a game that released in 1998 had better AI than any GT games has ever had. There is no excuse. AI in racing isn't fucking sentient robot AI. There are some very very very basic concepts to racing, to make it believable at the surface level of racing against another car. The AI in GT and especially GT6 basically achieves, "the cars go around the track in the right direction" out side of that, they seldom demonstrate believable racing behavior. But no, please, go on about Durante and how that is even remotely similar to this. Man, I thought we had brought all of the PD apologists out of the wood work with all the micro transaction threads but boy was I wrong.
Calm down. Its just a game man. No need to throw a fit. Your hyperbole is amazing tho. As I said, gt6 and every console sim/arcade racer out there has shit AI. One might give a better impression of good ai than the other but they are all shit.No one is apologizing for anyone just using simple logic.
If they did then they should take there code to Google or DARPA
IMO, forza might have made the biggest step in this direction by having drivatars but that's an argument for another day.
 
Calm down. Its just a game man. No need to throw a fit. As I said, gt6 and every console sim/arcade racer out there has shit AI. One might give a better impression of good ai than the other but they are all shit.No one is apologizing for anyone just using simple logic.
If they did then they should take there code to Google or DARPA

I think most people need to realize why PC sims don't have AI's..lol..
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Re: glitch


So, can I do it without having to redownload the patch every time? Like, I dunno, can I put the update on a USB stick, delete it on the PS3 to do the glitch and then re-apply it copy/pasting it from the stick?
 
Calm down. Its just a game man. No need to throw a fit. As I said, gt6 and every console sim/arcade racer out there has shit AI. One might give a better impression of good ai than the other but they are all shit.No one is apologizing for anyone just using simple logic.
If they did then they should take there code to Google or DARPA

You are making this strange straw man argument about autonomous AI and memory restrictions. GT AI has been on rails forever and should be even easier to perfect in terms of convincing behavior. They made the conceit a long time ago that the cars will be immovable from their pre determined path. Once that pill was swallowed, it should have been honed somewhere around GT3. No one is expecting GT to perfectly replicate the complexities of racing 16 real people online in their AI, same with FPS bots. They are never a real substitute for true online, but since the days of Counter Strike beta, there have been damn convincing AI offline bot routines. To stay with the FPS analogy, GT AI is essentially like a FPS bot shooting bullets out of its ass. When engaging a FPS bot, you at the very least expect the bullets to fire from the gun. This incredibly basic concept in shooting, guns and FPS mechanics translates to AI cars braking, for no reason, past the apex and in corner track out. I don't think you understand how much of a fundamental of racing that concept is. After describing the gas makes you go and the brake makes you slow down and the steering wheel is for turning, you move on to the racing line and what that means to going faster. Once you know an optimal line, the racing line, exists (which hilariously the GT rails AI don't even follow on the majority of tracks) you divide the corner into your braking, the majority of which is done straight, turn in, which can involve trail braking, the apex of your turn, and track out. The vast majority of corners, you will be on the throttle just before or at the apex, with some cars and some corners you are on the throttle well before the apex. You certain never brake without an obstruction in front of you, as you exit the corner to track out onto a straight away (excluding compromise corners of course). This annihilates your speed down the straight. GT cars do this chronically. This is why they are so easy to hit in corners, they are braking in spots that even the most armature race driver would never ever brake at. This has nothing to do with memory limits of the PS3. The fricking manuals that used to come with GT games even explained this basic concept in racing, yet they never bothered to program those principles into their own game!

You are using the opposite of "logic" in addressing and describing the AI issues in GT. The sad part, that very basic flaw I described is only scratching the surface in the bizarre AI behaviors that have surfaced in GT6. Eg, swerving wildly back and forth more than 5 times on a straight away. Hahaha, it is mental.
 

Emwitus

Member
News flash. All ai is designed on rails or parameters if you want to put it that way. They all have set paths they follow until a trigger happens. That may be a car infront of it, one behind, proximity to a bend etc etc. All ai is basically on rails.
Now your argument is that there had been no improvement in this "ai" and that in all honesty is subjective. I can give you a video from gt5 that supposedly shows good ai and another that shows bad. Same goes for the other franchise. Since they all have shit ai diverting slightly from normal driving behavior will throw a wrench in whatever you consider good ai. That's the way its always been and will continue to be until we have enough resources to share between graphical/ physical calculations and computer ai. That's why its laughable that you consider a game made in 1998 would have good ai.
 
News flash. All ai is designed on rails or parameters if you want to put it that way. They all have set paths they follow until a trigger happens. That may be a car infront of it, one behind, proximity to a bend etc etc. All ai is basically on rails.

What are you even arguing? Each time you just make a statement in apropos of nothing, battling against something no one ever claimed to be true. Are you being intentionally obtuse? You have to realize what people mean by "on rails" when they describe GT AI right? You can T-bone them into a turn and they barely budge. To put it in the terms you just described above, GT is on rails on rails.
 

Niks

Member
Scrap the main campaign altogether I say. Just leave the licenses, missions and special events (moon and goodwood), and focus on online.

That said im still enjoying the game.
 
Scrap the main campaign altogether I say. Just leave the licenses, missions and special events (moon and goodwood), and focus on online.

That said im still enjoying the game.

I would take this any day over the current A-spec/SP campaign. I love the special events, licenses and coffee breaks. Great balance of fun, exploring the limits of your car, and precision driving. The way "online" bleeds into the license tests with the friends lines is brilliant. Btw Niks, you tend to be the line to beat on my tests, it is nice to have a decent line to race against.
 

Emwitus

Member
What are you even arguing? Each time you just make a statement in apropos of nothing, battling against something no one ever claimed to be true. Are you being intentionally obtuse? You have to realize what people mean by "on rails" when they describe GT AI right? You can T-bone them into a turn and they barely budge. To put it in the terms you just described above, GT is on rails on rails.
Dude, I'm not arguing gt is not on rails. I'm arguing that all racers are on rails. And you seem to have this standard of good ai that's doesn't exist and is mostly subjective. Example, you said gt6 ai has got worse from 5. Someone else just said 6 got better. Prove him wrong?
 
Put TC on 0. The GT-R loves to be thrown around (brake late and induce oversteer), so just go wild with it and make its tires squeal. You should be able to pass the opponent within the first sector (even before the first hard left "The Loop").

Hm, I already race with TC on 1, but I'll slide it all the way over to 0.

I already pass the opponent before the first long straightaway, but I always feel like I lose a lot of time in the last portion of the race. The last portion being after the checkpoint that beeps your time (I usually don't hit this point until about 1:42, so maybe my pace in the first portion of the race is too slow?). I think I am getting a better handle on the car though, I like the feel of oversteer on it.
 
Dude, I'm not arguing gt is not on rails. I'm arguing that all racer are on rails.

I think we are debating semantics at this point. Yes, if you would like to describe all racing AI as "on rails" sure have at it. The reason this makes sense is because of this invisible "rail" in racing called the racing line. Watch an F1 race, they seem so on rails most of the time don't they? Yeah, because they are all (for the most part) immensely talented drivers who are able to hit the damn near perfect racing line lap after lap. I don't think we had an official meeting, but the majority of GT fans and critics describe the AI behavior in GT games as "on rails" not because the basics of a racing AI routine must follow the "rail" that is the racing line, but because they are fucking glued to the track and immovable obstacles that don't adhere to the same physics engine that is affecting your car. That is all.
 
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