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[Ted]

This is a problem because I don't know when my inablility to succeed stops becoming a matter of skill vs a matter of the car just not being good enough.

I know exactly what you mean but, to a greater or lesser extent, isn't this true of any racing game with multiple cars and multiple upgrades?

What i tend to do is check my lap times race to race, if I'm basically consistent lap to lap and race to race I'm probably tapped out skill wise. That said, if I'm still enjoying the racing, I'll probably stick at it. That's what it's all about after all.

On a different note, I really enjoyed the Goodwood challenges, it's a short sweet little section but it really shows up the differences in the cars.

 

[HueyFreeman]

is there many night/weather races in career?

There seems to be a reasonable amount of night races but haven't encountered any weather yet.

Also the night racing probably needs patching, the gamma is way too low and headlights don't always seem to work.

 

[dubc35]

Wasn't this one of the biggest problems of the GT5 career? And they didn't do anything to remedy/fix it? Damn. That's kind of disappointing.

Every GT game has always been like this. Should it be fixed? Yes, but they all have been like this. I don't recall, maybe I missed it, PD saying AI was going to be a focus point for GT6. It sucks and I don't like it either but I'm not disappointed. I never expected it to be better (which is a sad comment on the way PD has handled it I guess, lol).

 

[gutterboy44]

For those playing the game, what would you consider the focus of GT6 so far? I don't even remember the tag line for this one. I can't really pick one thing I would say is the focus for GT6. Sure the tires and suspension is better but it doesn't feel like some massive feature leap like going from not having online to full online or something to that extent. GT5 felt like Sony's tag line for the PS3 to a T. Someone mentioned it earlier today, but GT5 would be, "it only does everything" but tends to have too much on its plate and ends up half baked. GT6 seem like it is a step back from the table. Like toning things down.

 

[NullPointer]

Every GT game has always been like this. Should it be fixed? Yes, but they all have been like this. I don't recall, maybe I missed it, PD saying AI was going to be a focus point for GT6. It sucks and I don't like it either but I'm not disappointed. I never expected it to be better (which is a sad comment on the way PD has handled it I guess, lol).

This is painful to read. I know where you're coming from, but it's still lowered expectations perfectly resolved in forum post form.

And that's really what it comes down to. How low to set your expectations and how much you're OK with mostly more of the same. People who didn't expect much at all are the happy ones here.

For those playing the game, what would you consider the focus of GT6 so far? I don't even remember the tag line for this one.

You know, my gut was trying to warn me all this time that something like Adaptive Tessellation shouldn't be the kind of bulletpoint you use in a game's mainstream trailer.

I'm fine though, with this game, so far. Its not great, but its more GT with new tracks and interesting handling.

 

[Solal]

Kaz talked about including "human drama" in GT6... looks like he succeeded.

 

[gutterboy44]

This is painful to read. I know where you're coming from, but it's still lowered expectations perfectly resolved in forum post form.

And that's really what it comes down to. How low to set your expectations and how much you're OK with mostly more of the same. People who didn't expect much at all are the happy ones here.


You know, my gut was trying to warn me all this time that something like Adaptive Tessellation shouldn't be the kind of bulletpoint you use in a game's mainstream trailer.

I'm fine though, with this game, so far. Its not great, but its more GT with new tracks and interesting handling.

Yeah, same. It became pretty clear early on that this was not going to be the installment that changed everything for the GT franchise. Mission Races, Coffee Breaks, friends lap times live in license tests and the Goodwood events have been enough to make me happy behind the wheel. I would love to get some candid interviews with Kaz and not just the same empty promises about GT's future. The PS3 generation had to have been frustrating for his visions of where GT was aimed to go.

Fingers crossed the GPS delivers everything we hoped it to be.

 

[Betta Lines]

For those playing the game, what would you consider the focus of GT6 so far? I don't even remember the tag line for this one. I can't really pick one thing I would say is the focus for GT6. Sure the tires and suspension is better but it doesn't feel like some massive feature leap like going from not having online to full online or something to that extent. GT5 felt like Sony's tag line for the PS3 to a T. Someone mentioned it earlier today, but GT5 would be, "it only does everything" but tends to have too much on its plate and ends up half baked. GT6 seem like it is a step back from the table. Like toning things down.

GT5 was certainly a perfect match for the PS3's overall tedious UI/patching/installing/loading woes. As for a focus, well...it had no focus. WRC! NASCAR! Top Gear! Karting! All half-assed.

GT6 is more of the same, but has yet to prompt me to pull my hair out.

 

[nib95]

AI in racing isn't fucking sentient robot AI. There are some very very very basic concepts to racing, to make it believable at the surface level of racing against another car. The AI in GT and especially GT6 basically achieves, "the cars go around the track in the right direction" out side of that, they seldom demonstrate believable racing behavior.

Is this really true? It seems even from earlier videos online the AI does attempt manoeuvres, go off the racing line, make mistakes etc. So I'm having a hard time comprehending your comments about the AI. Are you saying they do none of the aforementioned and just go around in circles?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Kaz talked about including "human drama" in GT6... looks like he succeeded.

Well you are human.

Is this really true? It seems even from earlier videos online the AI does attempt manoeuvres, go off the racing line, make mistakes etc. So I'm having a hard time comprehending your comments about the AI. Are you saying they do none of the aforementioned and just go around in circles?

People said similar things for GT5 Prologue and GT5. It was never true.

 

[malyce]

If you live in US, purchased the DD version of this game and want to do the $20M hack, then rent the game from redbox for $2. It's ridiculously easy, no downloading of any sorts. Just bought $450M worth of cars. Apart from getting my Super License, I will no longer have to touch the offline portion of this garbage of a game. Best $2 I've spent in a long while lol. Fuck PD and Sony and their ridiculously priced "micro-transactions"

 

[Betta Lines]

Is this really true? It seems even from earlier videos online the AI does attempt manoeuvres, go off the racing line, make mistakes etc. So I'm having a hard time comprehending your comments about the AI. Are you saying they do none of the aforementioned and just go around in circles?

I've seen the AI make mistakes, and attempt passes on each other. I saw a 3 series BMW get very out of shape, looked like it was saved in a fairly realistic manner. They are also very good at passing if they are faster than you on a straight, as long as you drive sensibly by making one defensive move. You can weave about, throwing them one way and then blocking them on the other, which causes them to either brake hard or slam in to the back of you, but that doesn't happen if you drive normally.

The main AI fail is under braking, where they are far too tentative relative to their straight line performance, and often brake a second time mid-corner, despite already being slow enough to make it round. I've slammed into the back of cars several times because of this. Now I generally avoid placing my car directly behind them into a corner.

 

[WarMacheen]

Is this really true? It seems even from earlier videos online the AI does attempt manoeuvres, go off the racing line, make mistakes etc. So I'm having a hard time comprehending your comments about the AI. Are you saying they do none of the aforementioned and just go around in circles?

The AI in GT6 is horrible. It's still you versus tanks. They deviate from the race line, but only marginally. They will still ram you, spin you out and generally come into you if you get in their way. They will barely move if you hit them and a vast majority of the time only your car will have control problems. They will keep going on their merry way.

If you live in US, purchased the DD version of this game and want to do the $20M hack, then rent the game from redbox for $2. It's ridiculously easy, no downloading of any sorts. Just bought $450M worth of cars. Apart from getting my Super License, I will no longer have to touch the offline portion of this garbage of a game. Best $2 I've spent in a long while lol. Fuck PD and Sony and their ridiculously priced "micro-transactions"

Did that last night, I still have quite a few cars to purchase today. Fuck purchasing "credits" with real money.

 

[amar212]

People said similar things for GT5 Prologue and GT5. It was never true.

Well, it was, to be honest. However, my observations from 10 days ago are the same today. GT6 core game is catered towards more casual players while experienced players are to lean on the online portion and use career with previous knowledge of self handicaping in order to mske career challenging (A-Spec Points/PP points reductions are in the series for a decade now).

We do not like it, I do not like it, but once accepted I must admit I am having a better time with GT6 career than I ever had with GT5's.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Well, it was, to be honest. However, my observations from 10 days ago are the same today. GT6 core game is catered towards more casual players while experienced players are to lean on the online portion and use career with previous knowledge of self handicaping in order to mske career challenging (A-Spec Points/PP points reductions are in the series for a decade now).

We do not like it, I do not like it, but once accepted I must admit I am having a better time with GT6 career than I ever had with GT5's.

It wasn't/isn't.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13132520&postcount=8644

Replace the * with t i n y p i c .com

Just spectating some bspec races is enough to realize it.

 

[Calabi]

The AI is pretty crap its like it doesnt see you, they have the pretence of things happening like cars wont drive exactly along the racing line, but its obvious not much is going on under the surface, the AIs drive in their own little worlds.

The career is kind of a waste of time they put all this effort into making these races which you'll only ever do once. They should do something like Grid. Have races with specific cars(or at least have a list of what cars) and have difficulty levels. And have higher rewards with higher difficulties and less assists and less car upgrades. Also they should have more focus on time trials, have rewards for beating your times, and online leaderboards.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

been testing and 50% power limit and a complete step down in compound is the only way to level the playing field in short races.

50% power / compound step down

the gap was 12 secs at the first sector, lap times don't drop off massively towards the end.

100% power / same compound

horrible drop off in the last two laps, the biggest drop off i've seen in the last lap was 6 seconds which is absolute shit, the ai in terms of speed is definitely a series low, i'd take the rubberband s class ai in gt psp over this shit any day of the week.


i didn't test racing soft vs comfort softs (or added ballast) but i'm sure this will be the setting to have for longer distance races where the ai has the advantage and you have to drive out of your skin to win.

 

[BloodMoney]

At this point PD has not improved the sound, AI, or career mode. I don't know what they are waiting for. If GT7 ends up simply being more of the same... 'it's game over man'

 

[Metalmurphy]

At this point PD has not improved the sound, AI, or career mode. I don't know what they are waiting for. If GT7 ends up simply being more of the same... 'it's game over man'

They did improve the career. But I agree with you on the rest. GT7 needs to seriously overhaul the sound engine by next gen. Even I won't forgive them if they don't. AI i'm not too bothered with but it needs to be a whole lot faster.

 

[Radec]

For those who used the money trick multiple times , you can only sell the VGT Car on v1.0 right?

 

[Tayaya]

Whoa, just realized you can adjust the soundtrack playlist in the gallery option under library. No more shitty rock songs during races.

THAT's where that option is!? You would think it would be.... I dunno... under the OPTIONS menu, particularly in the audio section. Crazy right?

I was starting to think maybe I had to unlock the feature to weed out the crap from the game's tracklist.

 

[JackAubrey]

For a perfectionist he certainly creates scattershot unfinished games. Was once my favourite franchise too.

 

[_machine]

They did improve the career. But I agree with you on the rest. GT7 needs to seriously overhaul the sound engine by next gen. Even I won't forgive them if they don't. AI i'm not too bothered with but it needs to be a whole lot faster.

Agreed on the career; I'm no expert on GT5's career having put only around 15-20hrs on it since I've never owned the game myself, but GT6 definitely seems to improve it rather dramatically if I may say.

Sound and AI however, are still quite a mess. Sound I can sorta understand thanks to their mixed up priorities early in the development and the tech they're now working (if that is the one sample way, which is the most likely) as they simply don't have the memory available to improve (which is why I don't expect to do much it anymore), but the AI is just poor and easily the biggest gripe I have with the game. Everything else doesn't bother me that much as the passive and boring AI.

FWIW, I love Kaz and the fact that his passion shines in the game, but I think the game needs someone else as a producer with Kaz only helming the development as a director. The main thing that reeks to me is that they haven't been able to prioritize properly, work effectively enough and put together a properly cohesive and balanced package tells me that the producing isn't doing it's job quite as well as it should. Mind you, producer's place is one of the toughest places in the industry so I'm definitely not saying it's easy by any means, but I'm sure PD could find a better solution for their development pipeline.

 

[FrankWza]

can we get a few comparisons on the installation from disc please?
here is where im at.

Game data utility shows 4275mb
GT6 Install size shows 1053mb
Game progress: 31%

come on guys. someone help...?

 

[dalin80]

They did improve the career. .

I wouldn't use the word 'improve'. More 'destroyed in the name of catering to casuals and players with the attention span of a puppy on speed'.

GT2 utterly kills it, even GT1 feels more natural. And that even lets you qualify, with standing starts!

 

[Metalmurphy]

I wouldn't use the word 'improve'. More 'destroyed in the name of catering to casuals and players with the attention span of a puppy on speed'.

GT2 utterly kills it, even GT1 feels more natural. And that even lets you qualify, with standing starts!

Well, improved over GT5. There's definitely more variety. Plus the inclusion of weather and time of day changes.

 

[Flying Squirrel]

For those who used the money trick multiple times , you can only sell the VGT Car on v1.0 right?

Is there no online banning coming out of this? Just curious.

 

[Neo 007]

I just got another mini-update...on idea what it does though.

 

[_machine]

Is there no online banning coming out of this? Just curious.

Doubt it it's that easy to do and would certainly require a patch for the data gathering which would be useless as you could just choose not use the latest patch.

 

[Quexex]

At this point PD has not improved the sound, AI, or career mode. I don't know what they are waiting for. If GT7 ends up simply being more of the same... 'it's game over man'

Sound has improved a lot in some areas, career mode is a significant step up from 5 and the AI is a little better. You do realise that the PS3 doesn't have unlimited power right? AI and audio improvements alongside the most advanced physics in a console racing game at (nearly) 1080p is pushing the PS3 way beyond its limits and all you do is complain... maybe this thread should be called 'moon on a stick' instead.

 

[commedieu]

The moon missions are terrible, and they look horrible. My gf noticed this and called it out as well. amazingly bad.

 

[zephervack]

Wow at the negativity here, yes, its just more GT, all I know is that im actually having fun with the career, the game isnt perfect but there really isnt ANY other game that has all the stuff this one does, car count, weather, etc etc.

As for online, I love playing online with friends but not with randoms, people online are too aggressive and honestly too damn good, I play with a DFGT and love racing games but people online just are in another level, its not fun being like 10 seconds behind someone online all the time even if it seems like you havent made any mistakes.

You can call me casual or whatever, I love racing games, I spent way too much time playing PGR 4's snowy Nurburgring challenges and I loved it, GT6 reminds me a bit of that.

I actually let a non gamer friend of mine play the first 3 hours of the game and I just watched her, she loved the game and started appreciating the nuances of driving a race car , yes it seems like the career mode is not catered for hardcore players but seriously who finds some of those impossible challenges fun?? I wanted to kill myself while trying to beat the VW Buggy Top Gear challenge in GT5, it was simply impossible.

 

[BloodMoney]

They did improve the career.

Not sure I agree. I mean they tweaked it a bit, but it still seems very familiar to me. I remember playing TOCA race driver at the beginning of the decade and really enjoying the Career mode considering there was actually the sense of progressing as a race car driver. GT could take a huge step forward if they introduced things like sponsorship (which would add to your income) and AI opponents with personalities (That you raced against multiple times). As it stands now it's just random races against random opponents and aside from a (inadequate) Cr payout, it never seems as though there is any "career" involved in the single player.

Just imagine. You consistently place #1 in and you get a sponsorship from Bilstein that pays X amount per race in addition to the prize money. Or, lets say you don't always win races, but you finish in the top 3, and you get a sponsorship from some other company that doesn't pay as well. Or you get free perks like new racing gear or car tuning components.

I could go on and on... but there is no need. Other games, years ago... had a better sense of progression than GT. I simply don't get any real satisfaction when I pass a license test and confetti sprays across the screen. The career mode seems very "arcade" to me as-is. There needs to be depth.

Edit: don't get me wrong, I love GT. I really really do... It just a frustrating kind of love. In the physics/weather/track department, I have no complaints... well, only a few.

 

[commedieu]

Not sure I agree. I mean they tweaked it a bit, but it still seems very familiar to me. I remember playing TOCA race driver at the beginning of the decade and really enjoying the Career mode considering there was actually the sense of progressing as a race car driver. GT could take a huge step forward if they introduced things like sponsorship (which would add to your income) and AI opponents with personalities (That you raced against multiple times). As it stands now it's just random races against random opponents and aside from a (inadequate) Cr payout, it never seems as though there is any "career" involved in the single player.

Just imagine. You consistently place #1 in and you get a sponsorship from Bilstein that pays X amount per race in addition to the prize money. Or, lets say you don't always win races, but you finish in the top 3, and you get a sponsorship from some other company that doesn't pay as well. Or you get free perks like new racing gear or car tuning components.

I could go on and on... but there is no need. Other games, years ago... had a better sense of progression than GT. I simply don't get any real satisfaction when I pass a license test and confetti sprays across the screen. The career mode seems very "arcade" to me as-is. There needs to be depth.

Edit: don't get me wrong, I love GT. I really really do... It just a frustrating kind of love. In the physics/weather/track department, I have no complaints... well, only a few.

dont mean to quote myself.. but..

Racing games should have boosters that increase credits that you can only win with your specific experience, racing something like a Sponsorship- You race a type of car often enough, you get sponsored by them. They pay you a % when you place, on top of a discount of parts for the sponsored car. Bonus $ for beating makes of 'rival' cars. Or, something like getting a redbull sponsorship which would apply to any car your drivatar drive, but its dependent on your success in the game. Lose a few races over and over, lose the sponsorship.

You play/win enough for Car Magazines to offer photographing your car. You cant access it for a few days, but you get credits while you cant use the car. Developers need to get more creative for payouts that match the game world.

maybe its a brainfart. I just think the archaic model of campaigns in sims are painfully repetitive without much happening outside of the grind. I think Toca may have done some of these.

We nneed to get moving on the campaign mode. Tocas was rpetty good iirc.

edit;

or have we been busted as the same person..

shit.

 

[BloodMoney]

dont mean to quote myself.. but..

ok, then we agree.

 

[Betta Lines]

Im thinking BR is better since it does full install anyway but i dont know. guess i will see how much that disc starts chugging when i get and install.

Anyone know what the deal is with install options? Is it just no install or install as you go. If I leave it on but stay in the lobby will it install? Is there a way to do a straight install?

install is pretty slow. 550mb after a few hours.

How is it possible that you can't just choose to install this game and let it install while you do nothing or anything else like eat or sleep or.....?

By the time this fully installs from disc I will need to install gt7 on my ps4

Can I please get some game install comparison numbers? I'm at 686mb...6 hours of game time total.

3 hours later..........747mb


WTF!!!!!

Been so long since I installed GT5 but I could swear it had straight install option. Either way...This sucks

We were talking about the install from the disc. The update for me downloaded in a couple of minutes. When you have the disc you have the option to install as you go or not install. There should be a straight install option where you can't play but it installs in X amount of time. I've played for hours and don't even have 750mb s installed yet. So the only way to install is to play but you have to progress instead of installing like ps4 games do.

can you delete 1.01 without deleting the install data?

Still not fully installed from disc. I don't understand this installation process at all. I reload maps I've already played and disc spins like it did the first time I accessed it so it can't be install as you play.anyone fully installed yet and if so how many game hours in your stats?

Yeah...it's installing....just really slow. Also.. The install size is a lot smaller in the in game menu than in the ps3 game data utility which is weird

can we get a few comparisons on the installation from disc please?
here is where im at.

Game data utility shows 4275mb
GT6 Install size shows 1053mb
Game progress: 31%

come on guys. someone help...?

You seem fairly obsessed with this.... what is the problem?

 

[conman]

AI and audio improvements alongside the most advanced physics in a console racing game at (nearly) 1080p is pushing the PS3 way beyond its limits and all you do is complain... maybe this thread should be called 'moon on a stick' instead.

Considering the fact that the game didn't crash nor did my PS3 explode, I think you'll have to retract your "way beyond its limits" claim. It's doing exactly what the console is capable of doing. The idea that it could go "beyond its limits" doesn't make any logical sense and is only something a marketing team says. It's like a coach telling his team to "give 110%." It's deliberate hyperbole and is certainly no way to defend the lack of polish in GT6.

GT5 launched in an "unfinished" state and it grew to be one of my favorites in the series after its many updates. GT6 has again launched in an "unfinished" state. The question is whether or not it will sell enough copies to justify continued support with comprehensive updates.

 

[Flying Squirrel]

Doubt it it's that easy to do and would certainly require a patch for the data gathering which would be useless as you could just choose not use the latest patch.

Fair enough!

You seem fairly obsessed with this.... what is the problem?

haha, oh wow

 

[Dingo Egret]

They need to patch-in the rain effects from GT5 - they are slightly superior to the GT6 rain effects.

Any improvement to the weather effects would be awesome. Reflections on the wet tarmac too.

 

[WarMacheen]

For those who used the money trick multiple times , you can only sell the VGT Car on v1.0 right?

Nah, you can sell it in 1.01 but it's only worth 300,000 instead of over 330 million, of which you only get 20 mil because of the cap.

 

[Quexex]

Considering the fact that the game didn't crash nor did my PS3 explode, I think you'll have to retract your "way beyond its limits" claim. It's doing exactly what the console is capable of doing. The idea that it could go "beyond its limits" doesn't make any logical sense and is only something a marketing team says. It's like a coach telling his team to "give 110%." It's deliberate hyperbole and is certainly no way to defend the lack of polish in GT6.

GT5 launched in an "unfinished" state and it grew to be one of my favorites in the series after its many updates. GT6 has again launched in an "unfinished" state. The question is whether or not it will sell enough copies to justify continued support with comprehensive updates.

The frame rate inconsistencies tell you how hard the hardware is being pushed. In car view falls way short of 60fps unlike GT5. Thus added physics, rendering engine upgrades audio an AI improvements all cost cpu and gpu cycles and stretch the PS3.

 

[WarMacheen]

The frame rate inconsistencies tell you how hard the hardware is being pushed. In car view falls way short of 60fps unlike GT5. Thus added physics, rendering engine upgrades audio an AI improvements all cost cpu and gpu cycles and stretch the PS3.

but there are no AI/Audio improvements =P

 

[NullPointer]

The frame rate inconsistencies tell you how hard the hardware is being pushed.

They tell me that it shouldn't have been pushed.

but there are no AI/Audio improvements =P

There's more range to the tire squeal. I noticed that. And better sounds when in the dirt. Haven't noticed more besides that and the "sound through a pillow" that conman wrote about.

 

[Quexex]

but there are no AI/Audio improvements =P

Lol if you've never played GT5 you might believe that but it just not true, although neither have improved enough.

 

[Betta Lines]

Considering the fact that the game didn't crash nor did my PS3 explode, I think you'll have to retract your "way beyond its limits" claim. It's doing exactly what the console is capable of doing. The idea that it could go "beyond its limits" doesn't make any logical sense and is only something a marketing team says. It's like a coach telling his team to "give 110%." It's deliberate hyperbole and is certainly no way to defend the lack of polish in GT6.

The game is designed to run at 60fps. It drops regularly below. So in a sense, the game is pushing the PS3 beyond its limits. The PS3 doesn't explode because it doesn't overclock itself to maintain framerate.

They need to patch-in the rain effects from GT5 - they are slightly superior to the GT6 rain effects.

Any improvement to the weather effects would be awesome. Reflections on the wet tarmac too.

They'd only downgrade the rain effect for performance reasons. But you want them to put the GT5 one back, and add wet reflections too? Those kind of reflections are always very resource-hungry. The game already chugs in the wet, I think you're asking too much of a very old console.


And yeah... the audio seems better to me. Not by much, but a bit better.

 

[amar212]

You seem fairly obsessed with this.... what is the problem?

He just can't comprehend that game installs gradually during the playtime, as you "open" particular tracks for the first time or some cars are "becoming" AI opponents or you "open" them in the Dealerships.

He also can't comprehend how games virtually separates what is "Install Data" (cars and tracks only) and what is "Game Data" (complete "Instal Data" + music, movies, replays, pictures, garage files, stockyard lump-files, paint chip files, etc..).

OCD man.

 

[FrankWza]

You seem fairly obsessed with this.... what is the problem?

The problem?...it's not fully installed. Am supposed to wait until ive completed the game for it to be fully installed? GT5 had a full install and this does not.You could've taken the time you wasted going through all my posts to quote doing so many other things,like just answering my question. I don't see how that bothers you. Just answer or ignore it.

 

[Betta Lines]

The problem?...it's not fully installed. Am supposed to wait until ive completed the game for it to be fully installed? GT5 had a full install and this does not.You could've taken the time you wasted going through all my posts to quote doing so many other things,like just answering my question. I don't see how that bothers you. Just answer or ignore it.

You realise... it's always going to need the disc... even after it's fully installed?

 

[gutterboy44]

Well, I found my new widow maker. Huayra around the Ring with SH tires and no TCS. Fucking hell!

 

[FrankWza]

You realise... it's always going to need the disc... even after it's fully installed?

Damn!...wait...you're saying I have to buy games? Like I can't just rent them and install them all to my hard drive. Well that's stupid...I quit gaming. See you next tuesday