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Gran Turismo 6 |OT| Moon Rover The Castle

Tyre flex can be felt in the real world (to claim otherwise means you have never once had a car on it's absolute limit) and simulators that simulate it.

All of that post mentioning detail and subtlety on the edge in iRacing, that is tyre flex. It's so mind numbingly obvious GT6 does not simulate it. Hell, in GT6 a Honda Fit, Ferrari F40, Jaguar XKR-S and Z4 GT3 all produce the same g force @ 100kph with the same tyre compound. How anyone can act as though it's some sort of advanced simulation is beyond me...
That is tyre slip, which alone can create very subtle effects on the limit without modelling any flex. A simpler tyre model could have no flex, allowing varing amounts of slip to occur across a varying contact patch. You would still get loads of subtleties like this with no flex. Flex is when the sidewall is actually being twisted, trying to pull itself sideways off the rim, or when the rubber compresses up and down when hitting something sharp like a kerb. These additional calculations should combine seamlessly with slip, affecting the shape of the contact patch, so I have no idea how you can tell the difference between the two, as they become part of the same effect, which is to influence slip. Adding flex should simply create more realistic slip, it's not a separate thing. And as for flexing up and down due to hitting something sharp, well that would be absorbed through the shocks as well, so again, don't know how you can single it out (unless there was no suspension travel like on the pushbike I described).

It's not mind-numbingly obvious to me. There is plenty of detail in tyre slip in GT6. They let go in a progressive manner, much like a bunch of other sims. iRacing for sure feels better, particularly the way it communicates understeer, but that could be due to the FFB, which I find to be the most direct. Pinpointing it as 'obviously' the flexing of sidewalls is a superhuman sense you have there.
 
Outside of the missions and special races, I am enjoying using my volvo c30 for all the races it qualifies for.

My collectors project right now is to have all the cars used in the fast and the furious franchise in my garage lol

Hahah, I like it. I am still hunting for my sleeper/silly car to tune and take online for some laughs in races. In GT5 there was some audi grocery getter or SUV you could get up to like 900hp so it made for some laughs on the straights. Absolute shit at braking and corner, but fun to get other peoples reactions.
 

*Guaraná

Banned
Yeah, the prize cars are thinned out. Prize cars seem purposely directed since you win just about everything you need to advance through the career. Golds also seem easier to get (except that damn Mission B-5)


the secret are the curves.

you have to almost drift thought them.
 

IISANDERII

Member
In a 550pp sport hard tires race, I came in 5/6 with a 304pp car using comfort soft tires. Not sure where to go from here because I don't want to spend time trialing how much I can handicap myself.
 

hort22

Member
i mentioned this a few pages ago...but is anyone else having post race replay problems?

i had thought one of the small updates fixed what problem i was having but i guess not.

for most races the fast forward button is greyed out and im not able to fast forward to later in the race.

some races i have been able to fast forward the replay but the majority of them not so much.
 

MaDKaT

Member
*Guaraná;93484705 said:
the secret are the curves.

you have to almost drift thought them.

Yeah, really damn close. within a few hundredths now. Kind of makes it more infuriating lol. Had to take a break and slaughtered the seasonal events. Hope to go back and clear it tonight though and get my Evo IV.
 

*Guaraná

Banned
Yeah, really damn close. within a few hundredths now. Kind of makes it more infuriating lol. Had to take a break and slaughtered the seasonal events. Hope to go back and clear it tonight though and get my Evo IV.

sorry for my english...

you must go crazy on the first four curves so you overtake the AI car on the first hard left turn. then you just go easy on the curves and don't get scared if the ai car gets close to you on the straights.
 
Gameplay at Toscana, race of two laps with day-night transition with the Audi Quattro S1 Pikes Peak.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm_pH7TtGgs

I think that feeling and FFB has improved in these surfaces that aren't asphalt. Car movements and FFB effects are more realistic than GT5, and I like it. :)

Good to hear. The gravel/dirt tracks were always the most frustrating bits in this series. I don't know why but Dirt series just felt like your tyres were biting into the surface more.
 
has there been any hints at what the one track per month dlc will be? i'm assuming it'll be uprezzed gt4 tracks instead of entirely new creations. fine by me, citti di aria or bust.
 
Wow, playing GT6@1080p (or whatever it is) is a bad idea. Just did a race at Bathurst with 15 Le mans type race cars and the frame rate dropped easily to sub 30fps. Really, really bad. And an earlier Rainmasters race was pretty bad when caught behind 2 or 3 cars with all that spray.
Have to go 720p now and just accept the lower PQ.
 

Sothpaw

Member
Wow, bought every GT game day one since GT 1. Didn't even know this was out yet. How are the license tests? Any harder than previous GT games?
 

Razgreez

Member
In a 550pp sport hard tires race, I came in 5/6 with a 304pp car using comfort soft tires. Not sure where to go from here because I don't want to spend time trialing how much I can handicap myself.

I was attempting to use a Huayra on Matterhorn with sports hard tyres and no assists. Brake too hard - slide
Accelerate too hard - instability
Turn to sharply - instability/slide
Going downhill at speed and make a slight adjustment - slide

I power handicapped the car and it became far easier to drive. The tires just couldn't handle the power - and I pride myself in terms of my ability to actuate the throttle

(Huayra had several upgrades - forgot to add)
 
I was attempting to use a Huayra on Matterhorn with sports hard tyres and no assists. Brake too hard - slide
Accelerate too hard - instability
Turn to sharply - instability/slide
Going downhill at speed and make a slight adjustment - slide

I power handicapped the car and it became far easier to drive. The tires just couldn't handle the power - and I pride myself in terms of my ability to actuate the throttle

(Huayra had several upgrades - forgot to add)

I was driving the stock Huayra around the ring at night with no assists. So crazy, but rewarding.
 

Dibbz

Member
Are you sure? I'd have expected that kind of thing to be disabled for the Academy, so that you could do your fastest lap immediately, rather than allowing those who could be bothered the heat the tyres for many laps to have an advantage.

Yes, it wasn't the actual Academy event, it was the secret GT-R even that could be unlocked.

Note the tires didn't need to be heated up they were already optimal they could overheat though from my experience.
 

flashmouth

Neo Member
Anybody else liking the lighting on Apricot Hill like me?
I don't know what it is exactly, there were no special conditions like in dawn, but the cars look very natural there. Did a series of races with only premium cars and the game really shines there.
 

Quexex

Banned
Anybody else liking the lighting on Apricot Hill like me?
I don't know what it is exactly, there were no special conditions like in dawn, but the cars look very natural there. Did a series of races with only premium cars and the game really shines there.

Yes indeed, great circuit to race on as well.
 

Hooky

Neo Member
Wow, bought every GT game day one since GT 1. Didn't even know this was out yet. How are the license tests? Any harder than previous GT games?
with every new GT game achieving gold becomes easier . Back in GT1 games i spent hours trying to gold licence test, now I need 2-3 tries at most.
except stupid cone slaloms in GT5
 
Why not a second 3rd person view option that shows the camera closer to the car like with every other game on the market?

This is one of the many serious complaints I have with GT games these days. The 3rd person camera is awful. Both in it's positioning and it's behavior, as it feels like it's rigidly attached to the car.
 
The key word is "options." In my opinion PD is anti "options" So many very basic things that should have options, like engine sound fx adjustments independent of tire sound fx. There are countless ones people have posted with equal puzzlement in why they don't exist. I have been whinging about separate brake pedal sensitivity settings since GT3. We had to beg for HUD options in GT5 and they still only delivered a half assed offering. My assumption/impression is the reason GT games lack options is because "Kaz knows best". They know the perfect sound balance, they know the ideal HUD layout, so you are a fool to want anything other than the perfection they have served us. I know this seems a bit much, and it is nothing more than a assumption on my part but this assuredness and arrogance has come off in little interview snipets over the last few years. The GT5 sound one being "too realistic" being the epitome of this.

Just a theory.
 

Korezo

Member
Why not a second 3rd person view option that shows the camera closer to the car like with every other game on the market?

The GT5p demo in the jpn ps store had the 3rd person camera closer to the car and it made the car look less aliased and better since it was close. Then for some reason in the retail version of GT5p they zoomed away from the car and I always thought it looked worse and is why I started playing bumper or cockpit view when I was using a controller. I never went back to that new shit car camera ever again.

http://youtu.be/qANJkvUfE5Q
 

dubc35

Member
The key word is "options." In my opinion PD is anti "options" So many very basic things that should have options, like engine sound fx adjustments independent of tire sound fx. There are countless ones people have posted with equal puzzlement in why they don't exist. We had to beg for HUD options in GT5 and they still only delivered a half assed offering. My assumption/impression is the reason GT games lack options is because Kaz knows best. They know the sound balance, they know the ideal HUD layout, so you are a fool to want anything other than the perfection they have served us. I know this seems a bit much, and it is nothing more than a assumption on my part but this assured arrogance has come of in little interview snipets over the last few years. The GT5 sound one being "too realistic" being the epitome of this.

Just a theory. I have been whinging about separate brake pedal sensitivity settings since GT3.

I've been mulling over some thoughts on PD's staff capacity and hardware capacity last couple days. I'm going to use a traction circle as my comparison. If you're using 90% traction for braking, you only have 10% available for turning. It seems like PD's staff and they way the allocate hardware resources are ~40% car/track modeling and ~40% physics (just throwing out numbers, don't get hung up on these). The remaining 20% they just massage around and some work well, some are terrible. It's interesting to me how seemingly simple options like global TCS/ASM settings leave but random stuff like auto replays after races leave and then come back. It's like after visuals and physics there is a mixed bag of options and they pull some out. They may be at 98% capacity and pull one out that requires 10% so they put it back until they find a 2% one whether or not it's a "good" one.

/random rambling about PD
 
I was talking about them simulating overheating. I cant think of any PC sim that does it right.

And no, tyre temp does not go from max to normal is a few seconds. What you see is a flash over of surface temp, exactly like when you see the infrared F1 TV shots. When you spin up the wheels the tyres will flash red then in a few seconds return to normal. This is exactly how real world tyres behave.

And you are outright lying about no transition from grip to slip. Try iRacing for no transition. As for your test.. The same thing that happens in GT happens in real... The car turns. So?


It will be very interesting when project cars gets released. Actually no it wont' Because no matter what its physics engine is like, PC sim racers are going to say its unrealistic simply because it will be ported to console. This I can gurantee, PC sim racer blinkers are quite strong.
Project Cars needs to simulate bumps in the fucking road. I havnt played the latest junior build, but as of one month ago, racing round Spa and Monza felt flat and lifeless even with the stellar graphics.
 
The GT5p demo in the jpn ps store had the 3rd person camera closer to the car and it made the car look less aliased and better since it was close. Then for some reason in the retail version of GT5p they zoomed away from the car and I always thought it looked worse and is why I started playing bumper or cockpit view when I was using a controller. I never went back to that new shit car camera ever again.

http://youtu.be/qANJkvUfE5Q

Wow, that camera is so much better than the one the game ships with. :/
 

TheRook

Member
I just totally realized that Infineon Raceway(now Sonoma Raceway) is not in GT6....was there some licensing issues to why it wasn't included or is it planned for DLC?
 
I've been mulling over some thoughts on PD's staff capacity and hardware capacity last couple days. I'm going to use a traction circle as my comparison. If you're using 90% traction for braking, you only have 10% available for turning. It seems like PD's staff and they way the allocate hardware resources are ~40% car/track modeling and ~40% physics (just throwing out numbers, don't get hung up on these). The remaining 20% they just massage around and some work well, some are terrible. It's interesting to me how seemingly simple options like global TCS/ASM settings leave but random stuff like auto replays after races leave and then come back. It's like after visuals and physics there is a mixed bag of options and they pull some out. They may be at 98% capacity and pull one out that requires 10% so they put it back until they find a 2% one whether or not it's a "good" one.

/random rambling about PD

I like the traction circle analogy, fitting. I think it is probably a combination of both our theories. Kaz seems still like the major decision maker, but also seems to occupy himself with a lot of things outside of GT development. I can see him coming in, getting the latest amazing visuals and physics updates and being content with the game direction, and this tiny bit of staff are left with making a game out of these systems. I really thing kaz needs someone on the team he sees as an equal who can call him on his shit.
 

Razgreez

Member
Feeling seriously inadequate right now. Attempted the M4 challenge after downloading the fastest ghost run and i couldn't even keep up after the first turn. Person brakes later and is still able to turn in earlier and their car appears to be more sideways than straight through most turns.
My fastest time 2:14 something
Gold time 2:18
Fastest ghost 2:06??!!
With the GT academy trials i was at least able to get within 5 secs of the fastest time with the DS3 and within 2 secs of the fastest time with the wheel. Now I'm 7 secs slower with the wheel... :(
 

dubc35

Member
I like the traction circle analogy, fitting. I think it is probably a combination of both our theories. Kaz seems still like the major decision maker, but also seems to occupy himself with a lot of things outside of GT development. I can see him coming in, getting the latest amazing visuals and physics updates and being content with the game direction, and this tiny bit of staff are left with making a game out of these systems. I really thing kaz needs someone on the team he sees as an equal who can call him on his shit.

I agree on the combo. I also would love for someone to consult PD from the outside that Kaz would respect. Keiichi Tsuchiya? lol
 
Out of curiosity, what car has everyone used for the International B "All Star" races? Thinking about using a tuned GT-R, just gauging if I should go Ferrari instead.
 

Korezo

Member
Feeling seriously inadequate right now. Attempted the M4 challenge after downloading the fastest ghost run and i couldn't even keep up after the first turn. Person brakes later and is still able to turn in earlier and their car appears to be more sideways than straight through most turns.
My fastest time 2:14 something
Gold time 2:18
Fastest ghost 2:06??!!
With the GT academy trials i was at least able to get within 5 secs of the fastest time with the DS3 and within 2 secs of the fastest time with the wheel. Now I'm 7 secs slower with the wheel... :(

In GT drifting turns give you faster lap times, you have to be a GT drift expert to compete with top trial times.
 
In GT drifting turns give you faster lap times, you have to be a GT drift expert to compete with top trial times.

This. Don't let the top times frustrate you. I have never seen a top GT time that wasn't some ridiculous exploitation of the slide for speed physics that seem to still be in GT games, although much more tame. Maybe that is why the tire noises are so loud in GT6. Make them scream for speed!
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
Someone needs to compile a list of stuff that GT needs to have, and send it to Kaz and co. Some stuff is just mind boggling in their omission. For example, why is it an "all or nothing" affair with the HUD options? Also, they had an excellent chase camera in GT3; why can't they just bring it back? The PS3 is a bitch to develop for, the ram is split up in pools, and CELL is a pain in the ass. Ok, I get that. That excuse doesn't fly with the PS4 Polyphony. With GT7 they should be able to fix most if not all the current issues, and at the same time, change up the career mode so it doesn't feel like it's the same game for the 7th straight iteration. Polyphony really needs a community manager.
 

benzy

Member
Someone needs to compile a list of stuff that GT needs to have, and send it to Kaz and co. Some stuff is just mind boggling in their omission. For example, why is it an "all or nothing" affair with the HUD options? Also, they had an excellent chase camera in GT3; why can't they just bring it back? The PS3 is a bitch to develop for, the ram is split up in pools, and CELL is a pain in the ass. Ok, I get that. That excuse doesn't fly with the PS4 Polyphony. With GT7 they should be able to fix most if not all the current issues, and at the same time, change up the career mode so it doesn't feel like it's the same game for the 7th straight iteration. Polyphony really needs a community manager.

You can enable and disable more HUD options in the main menu options, it's not all or nothing. And the chase cam is the way it is (very static) because gtplanet fans will bitch on the forums if PD decides to change it back to GT3's version. PD made the chase cam slightly more dynamic in a patch for gt5, only to take it away in a later patch because gtplanet members complained to all hell about it. Personally I prefer gt3's chase cam as well.
 
Yes, it wasn't the actual Academy event, it was the secret GT-R even that could be unlocked.

Note the tires didn't need to be heated up they were already optimal they could overheat though from my experience.
I see. I just tried an extended session, was inconclusive. I seemed to be able to maintain a consistent pace, and when I pushed the tyres too far, they would only momentarily have reduced grip - there wasn't an overall change in performance over many laps, whether I pushed the tyres or not. It was a time trial, so perhaps tyre evolution is also limited like the Academy event... but I don't know how else to do a long run, haven't unlocked any endurance races yet, assuming there are some.
 

Razgreez

Member

This is all well and good but even with a carefully crafted and prioritised list of basic to major requirements taking into account all development and cost factors you'll likely still need an iron willed project manager and team of business analysts to attempt to keep Kaz focused enough to actually accomplish those objectives. I mean take the sound for example. How can a producer of a game race in professional championship races and cars and not realise that the sounds and tires squeals in his game are totally unrealistic to the point where they heavily detract from the most fundamental experiences of driving and racing. It boggles the mind
 

Korezo

Member
I can't stand the IB historic car event, I have hours already trying to gold them and trying a bunch of different cars. They all drive like crap and I don't have the patience to drive these cars perfect for more than 2 laps... The final lap some bs always happens like my car magically spinning out when I'm driving exactly the same.
 
I can't stand the IB historic car event, I have hours already trying to gold them and trying a bunch of different cars. They all drive like crap and I don't have the patience to drive these cars perfect for more than 2 laps... The final lap some bs always happens like my car magically spinning out when I'm driving exactly the same.

Try to remember that your brake/gas inputs, especially in the older cars, amplify your car's rotation and rate of turn. Best tip I got when driving is that its better to push than shove. You have to treat something older more gently especially your throttle inputs.
 
Just tried Matterhorn for the first time - saw an Evo VII almost nosedive into the road surface... a bit suspect...

But what a track! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! :D
 
Just tried Matterhorn for the first time - saw an Evo VII almost nosedive into the road surface... a bit suspect...

But what a track! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! :D

It really is an incredible track. All variations of it really. If you're in cockpit view some of the corners are completely blind. You're going uphill and then it just drops like a rock into a right hand corner.
 

Jedi2016

Member
My thoughts after playing for a while. As a point of reference, I just unlocked International A.

I have to backtrack on what I said earlier about the game's economy being unchanged from previous games, because it certainly has. The difference is that it's not done via credits, but rather via cars. In earlier games, you ended up with so much money so quickly because you never had to buy any cars. The game was practically throwing them at you every other race. While race payouts in GT6 are about on par with previous entries, the car prizes are all but gone.. you have to actually buy the cars you race in. And I find myself in a bit of a dearth of credits as a result, moreso than I ever was previously.

The game cheats. I've seen numerous occasions where a race will feature a car that's not actually eligible for that race. One of the MR races, limited to 500pp cars or less, had one of the Zondas in it (none of which are even close to 500pp), that quickly took the lead and left the rest of us damn near a half a lap back. You could argue that the game uses the "power reduction" feature to drop the car to 500pp, but my experience says they don't... it was too damned fast, I was never going to catch it.

And "road car" or not, the GT40 is a LeMans race car. Don't put it in a "classic muscle car" race against my Charger. Not exactly on the same level. Seriously, they're making me go out and spend millions of credits on a car that can outrun a Mustang.

The rubber-band AI is a concern along these lines, too. And not in the classic sense of the cars behind you magically playing catch-up, but against the cars ahead of you. On races where I've plowed from 10th to 2nd in a half a lap, the #1 car is so far ahead that it's flat-out impossible to catch. And they're in the same car I am. But if you move up slowly, keeping a steady pace and only getting in the top three on the last lap, the lead car is inexplicably no longer a half a lap ahead. That was two races in a row with identical cars, and completely different behavior from the lead car.

Why is the ZZII only 65K, but able to handily beat both an Enzo and Veyron in a championship? I out-accelerated a Veyron on a straightaway at Bathurst. Short of an LMP or F1, there's not a car in the game that should be able to do that, much less this little thing. I've kept it out of the Supercar races on principle, I'd rather win with something more recognizable, but they're all so damned expensive.

The DeLorean, which IRL only goes for about $40K brand new, somehow costs a half million credits. It's like the Japanese pricing got stuck on that one. I know, it's nothing special, really, but it's a personal favorite.

All in all, though, I'm playing the shit out of this game. It's going to be a grind to get the cars I need for the end-game races, but I guess that's how it's going to work ('cause I'm not buying my way in).

I need chrome paint chips. Mostly for wheels. Someone needs to figure out where the basic silver and gold ones can be got.

Any ideas on the release schedule for the Vision GT cars? They've got twenty-six more to go... if they spread them out too thin, no one will be playing the game by the time the last ones are released.
 

Megasoum

Banned
It really is an incredible track. All variations of it really. If you're in cockpit view some of the corners are completely blind. You're going uphill and then it just drops like a rock into a right hand corner.

The slope up at the beginning of the Riffelsee layout is just ridiculous. You can see it at 30sec or so in that video. I was doing it in a Xbow that was going at least 100kph faster than the car in that video haha. Almost shit my pants every lap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ_pS_MZk-0
 
Ascari is the best new track added for sure, the last sector has an incredible flow, I had a great tussle with a Lotus in my gimped Caterham, then all of a sudden it was over as the reduce pace trigger kicked in. I saw it happen right in front of my eyes as we both crossed the finish line the ai jolted and its pace had vanished, it was like it was on half throttle and stabbing at the pedal.

Fucking Polyphony :(

I'll have to see about getting a video uploaded as I saved the replay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3eu83bVSew


Matterhorn is a pile just like Cape Ring, they've lost their creative touch, none of the new fantasy tracks touch the old classics.
 

Dibbz

Member
I see. I just tried an extended session, was inconclusive. I seemed to be able to maintain a consistent pace, and when I pushed the tyres too far, they would only momentarily have reduced grip - there wasn't an overall change in performance over many laps, whether I pushed the tyres or not. It was a time trial, so perhaps tyre evolution is also limited like the Academy event... but I don't know how else to do a long run, haven't unlocked any endurance races yet, assuming there are some.

Doesn't GT6 have a practice mode like GT5 or can you still make a private online session where you can just do free runs? I'll be super sad to see if things have changed in regards to what I felt in the GT6 Academy.

Has GAF had any races yet? Please upload some footage of online racing guys between you lot please :)
 
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