Buggy Loop
Member
Seriously, what is this game. Wow.
Played it like a year ago and yea, it aged too well. It shames most AAA games today and it was in 2015.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Played it like a year ago and yea, it aged too well. It shames most AAA games today and it was in 2015.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Its possible that their artificial insemination technique is not working well. or maybe its what
yamaci17
said and is related to their shaperning filter. GOW ragnroak's performance mode had a lot of dithering too in the open world boat levels. It was also 1440p. I played it in the 40 fps mode which was in the 1800p-2160p mode.
Sony studios need to come up with a DLSS like upscaling solution because FSR and their internal techniques are not good enough. I remember when they came up with MLAA on the PS3 using the cell processor, so maybe they can leverage some of the unique PS5 hardware to do better upscaling than what we are currently getting. DLSS is just leagues ahead in terms of image stability.
arkhamguy123
Member
Nah you said it had “some” poor texture and asset work. If you actually said what you’re trying to revise now that the whole game has poor asset and texture work I’d simply have to laugh in your face sir because it had/has amazing asset and texture work that holds up to this day. I was just playing it on my 4k tv like last week and was floored how modern it looks.
And also your single time of day comment is the silliest thing I’ve read because you might have forgotten the game is featuring Batman? Ya know the superhero? Alter ego Bruce wayne? Yeah so he only operates at night 99% of the time that’s like a ginormous part of the characters whole lore and is consistent with the last 3 whole Arkham games before knight game out.
I’ll finish off by reminding you of two things, A. scale is not graphics, and also if you can find one other part of the game besides the opening with that sweet ff16 level scale let me know, and B. I literally just told you I wasn’t liking that specific comment you zeroed in on, I was liking the general sentiment of “this game looked so good and this new one wow they phoned it in”
GymWolf
Gold Member
Yeah the sharpening is exagerated, maybe they are gonna patch in a slider.Its possible that their artificial insemination technique is not working well. or maybe its what
GOW ragnroak's performance mode had a lot of dithering too in the open world boat levels. It was also 1440p. I played it in the 40 fps mode which was in the 1800p-2160p mode.
Sony studios need to come up with a DLSS like upscaling solution because FSR and their internal techniques are not good enough. I remember when they came up with MLAA on the PS3 using the cell processor, so maybe they can leverage some of the unique PS5 hardware to do better upscaling than what we are currently getting. DLSS is just leagues ahead in terms of image stability.
Why don't they use their checkboard tech? i thought it was pretty good in hzd and all the game that used it.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
because for some retarded reason, they have their own technique called temporal injection and it worked flawlessly in the ratchet remake, spiderman 1, ratchet rift apart and miles. the difference is that they were upscaling from 1620p which is slightly higher res than 1440p you are currently playing in and way higher than 1080p the performance mode is dropping down to. i believe 1620p is around 4.5 million pixels and 1440p is 3.7 million so upscaling from a higher resolution likely causing the additional image breakup.
GG has always used checkerboard since 2017 and even they fucked it up with HFW when they brought the resolution down to 1800p checkerboard. so 2.8 million pixels compared to 4.1 million pixels of the 4kcb Horizon ZD used. They needed to go back and redesign the whole algorithm to feed it more motion vector data similar to what AMD has done with FSR 2.0. maybe thats what insomniac needs to do with the temporal injection technique. i honestly dont know because im not seeing this in the native 4k mode.
This is why I want Sony devs to pool their resources into one engine, and with everyone working on one engine and one upscaling technique, who knows maybe they will be able to get something like DLSS performance to look good because right now, even 1440p upscaled to 4k dlss and fsr quality) seems to have a lot of image breakup.
Balducci30
Member
cmon dude that pic is horrible. the assets are not that bad;
they look ok. it would be wise to remember that this game had to strand itself to 2-3 gb memory limitation due to gtx 700 series at the time. it used around 3.5-4 gb if you max it out but texture quality was still tailored to run compliant with 2-3 gb gpu of pathetic vram
so the fact that these assets are a product of limited 2-3 gb vram target, it is even more impressive.
considering spooderman has like 6x more memory budget and an ssd tha can help with asset streaming, it is actually rather funny that there's not even a full gen leap between them
maybe truly devs hit a wall. it is very possible.
look at alan wake 2. do u know why most people are angry? because the demos or videos they show... while super in terms of lighting, shadows and etc... textures look like dogcrap. why? because all that lighting, path tracing or mesh shading or whatever takes up immense amount of VRAM. so there practically no vram budget left in 10-12 gb cards to get meaningful texture upgrades. hence the game still looks subpar somehow. even with all its glory.
cyberpunk is very different as it uses out of ordinary texture streaming and texturing systems so it still somehow produces good textures (up close or close) when you actually investigate them
Cyberpunk 2077: A Substance-Filled World - Adobe Substance 3D
Discover a world full of substance in Cyberpunk 2077. Immerse yourself in a futuristic metropolis and experience the ultimate RPG adventure. Pre-order now!www.adobe.com
read about it. it is why this is the only game that can match good looking textures with gorgeous advanced lighting with pathetic vram budgets (8-10-12)
cyberpunk, where it matters, do not even use the classic textures as we know it. once you actually see it, you can't unsee it. most characters and their clothes are definitely not "regular" textures that most other games use.
read the 1st comment. pretty informative
alan wake 2 clearly an offender. its textures look lastgen. simple as that. and there's no remedy for it, unless remedy could be even go bolder and make the game exclusive to 16 gb cards lol
People are angry at Alan wake 2? Crazy that game looks awesome graphically to me
Last edited:
ThisIsMyDog
Gold Member
True, or they could just made another Batman game, one of the biggest waste in gaming history.
Me when they didn’t go make a Superman trilogy with the same quality and instead made a 2013 PS4 lookin shooter game that bleed them talent for a decade including their two founders
arkhamguy123
Member
I have a suspicion they’ll be mandated back to Batman after suicide squad flops
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
OK, I'm going to stop playing now and wait for RTX version. This game is a tressure from the art perspective. Incredible.
GooseMan69
Member
Haven’t played SM2 myself, but I think it should be commended for its draw distance. Even the current graphics kings (cyberpunk, Horizon, etc) suffer from pretty aggressive pop in. Being able to fly through a city environment at high speed without the game falling apart is a significant breakthrough imo.
I hate pop in and any game that prioritizes reducing it gets bonus points from me.
I hate pop in and any game that prioritizes reducing it gets bonus points from me.
Last edited:
ThisIsMyDog
Gold Member
Or Warner Bros will just disband them.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Who’s comparing it to Spider-Man?
yamaci17
Member
unlike df or some sophisticated ray tracing enjoyer, most people look at stuff and even if they see a horrible brick texture, they will be angry about that game
a still from this trailer:
run off the mill casual user will not notice how gorgeus the lighting is in this scene. they will notice the dogshit car and its dogshit lastgen textures. they will see the road textures they've been seeing for 7 years now. everything in this scene, aside from top notch path tracing lighting, is lastgen. and since most people won't catch the subtle beauty of ray traced lighting (and I can't blame them), they will be angry about it and its requirements
do remember that the game still demands powerful hardware without ray tracing. and take ray tracing out of the equation, game has lastgen looks. I will be honest, I also think the image above screams lastgen. the core problem clearly is assets.
it could be just IGTI being IGTI more than the sharpening. the spiderman 1 did not rely on IGTI alone. IGTI used there was just to compliment and already well tuned TAA for PS4. PS4 pro only used IGTI as a bonus. PS5 spiderman 2 however uses IGTI as an actual required upscaler. the spiderman 1 never required IGTI or upscaler. it looked perfectly clean and without artifacts on base PS4 at 1080p.Its possible that their artificial insemination technique is not working well. or maybe its what
Imsomniac tried to incorporate the improvements to the ray traced reflections they made for PC to the PS5 version of spiderman 2. as a result GPU probably took a big hit. to recover, they must've used a different algorythm of IGTI, a more artifact prone one. you can't have it all.
well as I said, arkham knight is held back by PC GPUs of its time. the games simply can't target very different baselines, it is really hard to gracefully scale. so it is better to target 2 GB GPUs and scale upwards. In the case of PS4, they would have to reauthor all textures and that would also create a PR disaster for NVIDIA at the time. the majority of people were on 2-3 GB GPUs. it is why Jensen quickly started spamming super cheap, budget, high performance 6 GB 1060s. So that games can target full 6 GB buffer on PS4 and 6 GB on PC on a mere 1060.
Same should've happened with the arrival of 12 GB 3060. Yet we now have 8 GB 4060. smh. More and more 8 GB cards. And Series S. Things are much, much more complicated this time around.
GooseMan69
Member
What’s the first game?
The first game looks like the matrix demo as that is what lady wore when free roaming, unless it's a game where you can create your character.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
The glorified turd known as the Matrix Awakens demo.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
It's not a game. It's Matrix Demo during night time. They're explicitly stating that night time is experimental before you switch the time of day. It's meh.
Here's a better representation of how it looks:
yamaci17
Member
SlimySnake
here's a weird comparison for u lol
IMG1820 ps5 spiderman remastered fidelity mode
IMG1819 ps5 spiderman 2 fidelity mode
rest is miles morales with various ray tracing pc options (at 4K dlss performance)
this here shows u that some of the improvements were built upon the work they did for PC versions
These are a bit funny:
PC high crowd density spawns a lot more NPCs compared to PS5 spiderman 2, but the car rate stays calm.
I wonder if DF will compare spiderman remastered/miles morales maxed on PC versus spiderman 2 on PS5.
Last edited:
Spider-Man is missing bloom on the car head lights, clearly it's graphically inferior to PS1 games.
Nixxes were responsible for the PC version of Spider-Man with some input from Insomniac Games.
here's a weird comparison for u lol
IMG1820 ps5 spiderman remastered fidelity mode
IMG1819 ps5 spiderman 2 fidelity mode
rest is miles morales with various ray tracing pc options (at 4K dlss performance)
this here shows u that some of the improvements were built upon the work they did for PC versions
These are a bit funny:
PC high crowd density spawns a lot more NPCs compared to PS5 spiderman 2, but the car rate stays calm.
I wonder if DF will compare spiderman remastered/miles morales maxed on PC versus spiderman 2 on PS5.
Also, what are you getting at? I don't understand the comparison.
Last edited:
yamaci17
Member
im getting nowhere lol. just some random comparisons for fun we did with my friend
dont worry im not trying to downplay ps5 version etc. it just shows that ps5 base spiderman could've been better, maybe as good as pc version at 30 fps mode or something. if u really want me to go somewhere, that's where I would go. they kept some upgrades so that there can be some solid differences between 1 and 2 on that front
T4keD0wN
Member
Both images are compressed as hell, but one of them has 4 times as many pixels. Not really fair.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Tech improvements can always be made but there will always be time constraints. A game has to ship at some point. TLOU2 on PS4 could look better than it's 2020 release because developers always learn and create faster code for their engines as time goes on.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Umm ok is that my fault or does that illustrate an more efficient vs less efficient engine? Also, you think resolution bump will improve the subpar character lighting in the ue5 demo? You are more than welcome to contribute wit screenshots of your own that you deem are more fairly representative.
First time interacting withChiefDada ?
Cheap shot but whatever. What exactly makes my comparison unfair?
ChiefDada
Gold Member
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
To be clear, I don't think night time in Matrix Demo looks good. Not at all. But first of all, it would be nice to mention that it is in experimental phase. Second, it would help to share a full resolution image and not some compressed, pixelated mess. That's it.
No, it's not. You accused me of trying hard to downplay Spider-Man 2 but it just seems like you're projecting. I've posted a lot of beautiful shots from that game (more than you). Your comparison with Matrix was garbage and you know it. Stop acting stupid.
Edit: this is the image quality that can be captured from that demo running on PS5. How do I know it? I just took that screenshot.
Last edited:
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Both of these were taken as a snapshot straight from my PS5. One after the other. No edits of any kind. In fact, for some reason the Matrix picture is a bigger file
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
You're full of shit. You're not interested in graphics, technology or art. You just want to make your favourite game on your favourite system look good and nothing else matters.
STFU, take your own screenshots, post to your own Twitter/X and then we can talk.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Matrix Demo, experimental night time lighting captured on PS5, straight from my X:
T4keD0wN
Member
PossiblyFirst time interacting with
Definitely not
It wont really improve the "art direction" or increase the amount of sources, but the ones that exist will definitely look more detailed, not to mention the massive impact lossless image can provide in many other areas which might make up for the lightining. It wont really change much when it comes to lightning if we isolate just that aspect of the picture.
In the images that are uploaded here Matrix ends up smaller. 488kbs vs 715kbs. One might argue that it favours Matrix picture as its much lower resolution, so the quality loss could theoretically be lower, but its a bit more complicated than that. Ill give you that.
Last edited:
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Well a word of advice, just ignore him. He's special. And full of do do.
Luipadre
Member
I mean ofc there will a spiderman 3. It prints money, but thankfully wolverine is next
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Knowing them they probably are already halfway through development on Spidey 3 lmao
ChiefDada
Gold Member
This is weird. I am going to attempt with fresh pics as comparable as possible. And don't listen to Mid-Gen, Dada isn't full of dodo. Only reason I am comparing in the first place is Ue5 fanatics tried to lynch me when I made this comment a while back.
And for the most part I think I was right. Regardless, now that SM2 is out, we can finally compare fidelity of an open world current gen only game vs open world, UE5 demo. Honestly surprised that DF didn't think to do this.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Holy cherry-picking batman!
Ok chief fessup how much is Insomniac paying you lol.
The game can definitely be a looker at times but it makes it all the more frustrating when its crazy inconsistency in visuals pops up.
ThisIsMyDog
Gold Member
Why other developers can't just copy nanite tech from UE5
Nasigil
Member
I've played neither games but just looking at the dozens of images in this thread, Arkham Knight looks way better than Spiderman 2 for me. The dripping atmosphere, the art direction, the lighting, I can't believe this game came out 8 years ago.
Nothing confused me more when I see people posting "I am blown away by Spiderman 2" and accompanied it with a thoroughly unimpressive screenshot.
Nothing confused me more when I see people posting "I am blown away by Spiderman 2" and accompanied it with a thoroughly unimpressive screenshot.
But both games are upscaled and the Matrix demo was the second showing of UE5, Rift Apart was the first next gen game by Insomniac Games with a cross gen and port of the first Spider-Man game. I fail to see how this isn't a fair comparison? There were more updates to UE5 before before Spider-Man 2 release that made the engine more efficient for games.To be clear, I don't think night time in Matrix Demo looks good. Not at all. But first of all, it would be nice to mention that it is in experimental phase. Second, it would help to share a full resolution image and not some compressed, pixelated mess. That's it.
No, it's not. You accused me of trying hard to downplay Spider-Man 2 but it just seems like you're projecting. I've posted a lot of beautiful shots from that game (more than you). Your comparison with Matrix was garbage and you know it. Stop acting stupid.
Edit: this is the image quality that can be captured from that demo running on PS5. How do I know it? I just took that screenshot.
Alex11
Member
Holy shit, I mean art and preferences aside, this really looks like an actual photo, to downplay Matrix, even if it's a demo or experimental or whatever is weird, this is like downplaying the PT in Cyberpunk.To be clear, I don't think night time in Matrix Demo looks good. Not at all. But first of all, it would be nice to mention that it is in experimental phase. Second, it would help to share a full resolution image and not some compressed, pixelated mess. That's it.
No, it's not. You accused me of trying hard to downplay Spider-Man 2 but it just seems like you're projecting. I've posted a lot of beautiful shots from that game (more than you). Your comparison with Matrix was garbage and you know it. Stop acting stupid.
Edit: this is the image quality that can be captured from that demo running on PS5. How do I know it? I just took that screenshot.