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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

and definitely gta vi beats likes of hb2 easily when you play them in current gen consoles which gta vi trailer used
not even close.
Lighting, asset quality and detail simply can`t keep up and that`s normal for an open world game. Especially one that doesn`t have a Nanite equivalent....
Please show me the part in the GTA trailer that even remotely reaches the highs of Wukongs or HB2s Nanite highlights.... The lighting...we`ll see.
 
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GymWolf

Member
Definitely don't agree with you for me gta vi characters graphics all around looks better than any metahumans but they are close for environment just wait until they show similar environment to hb2 or wukong to judge them but I doubt that it will look worse, rdr2 environments are the best in past generations also gta vi use the full rt features on high quality in current gen hardware, in other hand hellblade 2, wukong don't do that with low level hardware lumen or software lumen, You can compare gta vi trailer and current gen wukong and hb2 to judge correctly also rage history didn't have performance issues like ue5 in the end I am with you that each of rage and ue5 will have its own advantages graphics features and for me they only compete each other currently
I have absolutely no doubt that a gigantic open world with hell on screen that push a lot of city simulation with countless npcs on screen is not gonna have the granular detail of wukong or hb2, money and manpower can only get you that far.

And no, i don't think rdr2 had the most detailed locations in the past gen, one of the best but not the best.
 
The GTA VI trailer had great density, but no single technological part stood out or could hold a candle to the likes of HB2 or some parts of Wukong f.e. ...aside from maybe the hair animation in that split second scene.
GTAVI will be a new standard in open world games but let`s not pretend that the age old rule that scope comes at a cost suddenly isn`t valid anymore.
The character models are stylized, so they don’t look photo realistic - but I’d argue they ultimately look better in a crowd than say: walking around in the matrix demo with all the metahumans
 
ND reveal trailers are always touched up and do not represent what you'll get in final game, but even so, it didn't show anything more impressive than what we've already seen. 1943 Marvel is still the game to beat imo, that game looks like CGI.
I wasn’t ever impressed by it much, that area with the robot screams “60 FPS” game, though the lighting & reflections (look to be Ray Traced) looked phenomenal, but yeah overall I’m not really impressed…
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
eh, I remember Witcher 3 unveil and I'm prepared for a massive downgrade down the line for Witcher 4 too. Ain't no way they hold that standard for a full 200 hour massive map.
Everyone should be. You can make killer realtime cinematics within UE5 nowadays like we saw from Marvel's 1943. But they went out of their way to not just pre-render it but also pre-render it on a 5090. Clearly leveraging some kind of new path tracing tech only available on that GPU.

So pre-rendered + $2,000 unreleased GPU + cutscene = MASSIVE downgrade for the final game. They did it on purpose. If they couldve made the game look almost as good with a realtime cinematic, they wouldve done that.
 
The Witcher 4 trailer obviously look good but it's kind of hard to be excited with a pre-rendered trailer probably running on a 5090 for a game that entered full production two weeks ago. It's basically their target render for the game but it will probably not launch before a few years so of course lot of things are gonna change with still so much time.

I don't doubt it will be a really good looking game but it would have been way more interesting to have a real time cinematic running on the engine.

I have the impression that CD Projekt is making the same mistake as in the past by wanting to show their game too early.
 

T4keD0wN

Member
eh, I remember Witcher 3 unveil and I'm prepared for a massive downgrade down the line for Witcher 4 too. Ain't no way they hold that standard for a full 200 hour massive map.
Curious, ill probably get clowned on for saying this, but id be pretty disappointed if the game ends up looking like the trailer. Hoping for a decent upgrade because it looked roughly in line with most UE5 games ive played, except with much better lightning.

Lets see how itll turn out because cyberpunk eventually ended up looking way better than the trailers, it did take some updates ofc.
 
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We know literally nothing. Some of you just thrive on hate. It’s ridiculous
It’s always funny when I see comments like this criticizing others for not liking a trailer for an upcoming game, I don’t think you’d use the same language if we were happy & hyped about it, you wouldn’t say “some of you thrive on too much positivity & happiness. It’s ridiculous.”

What’s the point of the reveal trailer? Sony & Naughty Dog released it just so they reveal it to the world & see what people think, and many already disliked it, myself included.
 
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geary

Member
no, even in pre-production they had 400 devs working on it before it hit full production. The cyberpunk team was separate.

Joint CEO Michał Nowakowski said during CD Projekt's latest earnings call that, while the Polaris team has only grown from 407 members as of April 30, 2024 to 410 members as of July 31, 2024, its presence as the majority of overall staff members (410 of 639) means it's in a good place to begin proper work on the new Witcher game.

"The Polaris team is maintaining the right scale to enter the production stage very soon," Nowakowski said.
At the end of 2022, meaning 2 years ago, only 25% of their total staff was allocated to Polaris, and that was pre-production.

0TjiUgz.png


Now in 2024 they have 400 allocated to Polaris which is ~66%

r9v2AmH.png
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
At the end of 2022, meaning 2 years ago, only 25% of their total staff was allocated to Polaris, and that was pre-production.

0TjiUgz.png


Now in 2024 they have 400 allocated to Polaris which is ~66%

r9v2AmH.png
that still means they had a couple of hundreds devs working on it even back then. I am sorry but i dont understand how hundreds of developers can work on a game for 4 years and not have any gameplay to show. Or have to create a pre-rendered trailer from scratch instead of taking one from the game. it took them 2.5 years to make TLOU2 after launching Uncharted Lost Legacy and they were hacked, had to do rewrites and reshoots after the awful focus testing on Abby's levels and saw a final 2 month delay due to covid. CDPR made two massive expansions for Witcher 3 and still shipped Cyberpunk in 5 years.

And yet four years after launch, with just one expansion of Cyberpunk, they cant even show us a realtime trailer? No gameplay? hundreds of developers? How lazy are these guys?
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am on the side of the suits now. More layoffs please. These teams have become incredibly inefficient. it shouldnt take this long to make a video game.

People were making fun of Phil Spencer on twitter after seeing his reaction to Astrobot winning and im like what more can this mother fucker do? He gave Ninja Theory an unlimited budget and SIX years. They blew it. He gave the Indiana Jones team an unlimited budget and all kinds of first party support. They blew it and released an exceptionally bland looking game that will simply never sell any consoles like a good first party game should. He gave Forza 8 team an insane 6 years of dev time and they blew it. Starfield was delayed an extra year by him when Zenimax wouldve shipped a buggy mess. Again, todd howard blew it.

I think the CEOs havent been harsh enough. We all talk about why Sony no longer does any events, well, what can they really add? There was no gameplay here whatsoever. Mafia, Intergallactica, Witcher 4, Team ico's new game 9 years in the making. None of the big games had these holy shit next gen gameplay we were promised by Jason Schrier. Just some fake trailers. Maybe sony execs go to these devs and all they get back from the devs is fake trailers despite years of dev time.

It's like every game is in development hell. At least when Rockstar took 5 years to reveal their next game, they released a decent trailer with lots and lots of footage. These studios cant even make a realtime trailer.
 

timothet

Member
that still means they had a couple of hundreds devs working on it even back then. I am sorry but i dont understand how hundreds of developers can work on a game for 4 years and not have any gameplay to show. Or have to create a pre-rendered trailer from scratch instead of taking one from the game. it took them 2.5 years to make TLOU2 after launching Uncharted Lost Legacy and they were hacked, had to do rewrites and reshoots after the awful focus testing on Abby's levels and saw a final 2 month delay due to covid. CDPR made two massive expansions for Witcher 3 and still shipped Cyberpunk in 5 years.

And yet four years after launch, with just one expansion of Cyberpunk, they cant even show us a realtime trailer? No gameplay? hundreds of developers? How lazy are these guys?
They completed the bulk of pre-production for the entire saga between 2022 and now. Why? Their plan is to release all three games of the new saga within six years of W4's release. I imagine the new saga will have a more connected story, and they want to avoid long gaps between games.

That’s why they spent more time with a larger team on pre-production, so they can release the games within that timeframe. Some of it is my speculation, but it fits the facts.
 

DanielG165

Member
I've come to the conclusion that Playstation 1st party studios are no longer in their own league when it comes to visuals. They used to, but that time is over.
I think Xbox Studios now have that title, honestly, at least over PlayStation’s current line up, what with Flight Sim ‘24, Hellblade 2, Stalker 2, Indiana Jones (yes, Indiana Jones), and more like DOOM Dark Ages, Expedition 33 and Avowed coming up.

On a macro level, Sony’s current slew of 1st party games are nowhere near the likes of Wukong, Alan Wake 2, Avatar, Final Fantasy 7, Outlaws etc, and we now have even more graphical heavy hitters coming after last night. GTA 6 will still be the king imo, but Sony 1st party games are no longer the showcase for visual fidelity, despite me being impressed with ND’s new game.
 

GymWolf

Member
The character models are stylized, so they don’t look photo realistic - but I’d argue they ultimately look better in a crowd than say: walking around in the matrix demo with all the metahumans
That's because of the animations that make them believable, not because they are actually more detailed.
 

GymWolf

Member
Curious, ill probably get clowned on for saying this, but id be pretty disappointed if the game ends up looking like the trailer. Hoping for a decent upgrade because it looked roughly in line with most UE5 games ive played, except with much better lightning.

Lets see how itll turn out because cyberpunk eventually ended up looking way better than the trailers, it did take some updates ofc.
Depends when it comes out, for this gen, it's incredible, for nextgen, i'm gonna riot if that is not the baseline graphic for every AAA.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Here is the Witcher 4 director talking about the decision to make it pre-rendered. Honestly, doesnt make any sense to me but maybe people here who are smarter than me can help explain.

A: Actually, we decided to use Unreal Engine a few years ago for many reasons. First of all, Unreal Engine provides us with more possibilities, and its technology is very stable, which is suitable for us to build a huge open world. Obviously, the content you see today is based on Unreal Engine 5, but this is also a custom version we developed in close cooperation with Epic engineers. We hope that this engine can provide strong support for us to build a huge and detailed game world.

A very cool detail is that the trailer you see is actually a pre-rendered cinematic cutscene, with no post-production compositing at all. The game resources we use are all actual assets in the game. In other words, the quality of the assets in the trailer is the actual game quality in the game. This was a challenge for us because it was the first time we made a trailer in this way, but we are very happy that we made this decision. This not only helped us establish the overall quality of the game, especially in terms of visual effects, but also ensured that the visual style of the game can be carried through the entire game experience.
Like what?
 

GymWolf

Member
I think Xbox Studios now have that title, honestly, at least over PlayStation’s current line up, what with Flight Sim ‘24, Hellblade 2, Stalker 2, Indiana Jones (yes, Indiana Jones), and more like DOOM Dark Ages, Expedition 33 and Avowed coming up.

On a macro level, Sony’s current slew of 1st party games are nowhere near the likes of Wukong, Alan Wake 2, Avatar, Final Fantasy 7, Outlaws etc, and we now have even more graphical heavy hitters coming after last night. GTA 6 will still be the king imo, but Sony 1st party games are no longer the showcase for visual fidelity, despite me being impressed with ND’s new game.
That "yes indiana jones" would sound much more badass and authoritary if you didn't also included remilk part 2 between fucking wukong and anal wake 2, one definitely doesn't look like the others dude, just saying :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
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GymWolf

Member
Here is the Witcher 4 director talking about the decision to make it pre-rendered. Honestly, doesnt make any sense to me but maybe people here who are smarter than me can help explain.




Like what?
If you didn't know that the guy was full of shit after the bit about ue5 being stable and great for open worlds, it's kinda on you:lollipop_squinting:

I love the engine, but it's probably not the best choice if you want something super stable for a massive open world.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think Xbox Studios now have that title, honestly, at least over PlayStation’s current line up, what with Flight Sim ‘24, Hellblade 2, Stalker 2, Indiana Jones (yes, Indiana Jones), and more like DOOM Dark Ages, Expedition 33 and Avowed coming up.

On a macro level, Sony’s current slew of 1st party games are nowhere near the likes of Wukong, Alan Wake 2, Avatar, Final Fantasy 7, Outlaws etc, and we now have even more graphical heavy hitters coming after last night. GTA 6 will still be the king imo, but Sony 1st party games are no longer the showcase for visual fidelity, despite me being impressed with ND’s new game.
Not that I fully disagree with you on this, but just a couple of things.

- Expedition 33 isnt MS. It's a new studio.
- Doom looks good but on par with what sony has produced this gen.
- Indiana Jones looks worse than almost every sony game this gen. Maybe better than TLOU1 and GOW Ragnorak. Maybe.
- Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth looks like shit. FF16 id add to that list of exceptional looking titles.
- MS studios have been producing better looking games since 2023. I hated Starfield and am super meh on Forza when it comes to gameplay, but their graphics blew me away last year. They've simply continued their form from last year. Sadly, in terms of gameplay, only Indiana Jones can compete with Sony's top of the line games.
 

GymWolf

Member
Not that I fully disagree with you on this, but just a couple of things.

- Expedition 33 isnt MS. It's a new studio.
- Doom looks good but on par with what sony has produced this gen.
- Indiana Jones looks worse than almost every sony game this gen. Maybe better than TLOU1 and GOW Ragnorak. Maybe.
- Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth looks like shit. FF16 id add to that list of exceptional looking titles.
- MS studios have been producing better looking games since 2023. I hated Starfield and am super meh on Forza when it comes to gameplay, but their graphics blew me away last year. They've simply continued their form from last year. Sadly, in terms of gameplay, only Indiana Jones can compete with Sony's top of the line games.
Really? Every time i watch some footage i see the most retarded ai since redfall, super basic stealth mechanics and clunky ass combat, where they are exactly getting on par with sony best gameplay exactly? Even the puzzles seems mostly pretty easy from the comments on the ot.

I think returnal, horizon, ragnarock and even panderman shit all over indy pure gameplay.

Atmosphere, digital acting etc. Are not exactly what i call gameplay.

Sony never made immersive sims light\first person adventures recently so it's even hard to compare...
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
If you didn't know that the guy was full of shit after the bit about ue5 being stable and great for open worlds, it's kinda on you:lollipop_squinting:

I love the engine, but it's probably not the best choice if you want something super stable for a massive open world.
honestly, i had no issues with the matrix aside from some cpu related drops that were fixed in UE5.4.

they are also using a custom branch of UE5 so maybe their engineers are fixing the traversal stutter that Epic engineers refuse to fix.

Their own engine crumbled under the increased NPC load in witcher 3's next gen patch. I had a pretty decent CPU and it just tanked the framerate every time i entered the smallest of villages after the RT patch that also let you increase NPC counts. Whereas Matrix was handling tens of thousands of cars and NPCs like a champ on my CPU even before the UE5.4 patch that added CPU multithreading and improved performance by a whopping 80%.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Really? Every time i watch some footage i see the most retarded ai since redfall, meh stealth mechanics and clunky ass combat, where they are exactly getting on par with sony best gameplay exactly? Even the puzzles seems mostly pretty easy from the comments on the ot.

Sony never made immersive sims light\first person adventures recently so it's even hard to compare...
It's simply an excellent single player game. I hate immersive sims because they are boring. This game is anything but. World is well designed and full of side quests and secrets to find like sony's action adventure game pre-open world era. I am still early in the game but it's a breath of fresh air after playing nothing but crap all year. Kinda like Silent Hill 2 which felt like playing a PS2 or PS3 game, but in a good way. Game looked awfully boring in videos but playing it feels completely different. It honestly might be my GOTY.
 

H . R . 2

Member
ok , upon further inspection ...

SlimySnake SlimySnake is right about the RE engine
image_onimusha_way_of_the_sword-45368-5366_0002.jpg


image_onimusha_way_of_the_sword-45368-5366_0005.jpg



as for Intergallatica, I think ND had better step up their game
they have a lot to prove if they wish to stay at the top
I liked the trailer but there was nothing extraordinary about it.
 
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timothet

Member
honestly, i had no issues with the matrix aside from some cpu related drops that were fixed in UE5.4.

they are also using a custom branch of UE5 so maybe their engineers are fixing the traversal stutter that Epic engineers refuse to fix.

Their own engine crumbled under the increased NPC load in witcher 3's next gen patch. I had a pretty decent CPU and it just tanked the framerate every time i entered the smallest of villages after the RT patch that also let you increase NPC counts. Whereas Matrix was handling tens of thousands of cars and NPCs like a champ on my CPU even before the UE5.4 patch that added CPU multithreading and improved performance by a whopping 80%.
Yes, they are working on it.. What's important, some of those optimisations will land in the main branch of UE, so the rest of devs can benefit from it.
 

Edder1

Member
I wasn’t ever impressed by it much, that area with the robot screams “60 FPS” game, though the lighting & reflections (look to be Ray Traced) looked phenomenal, but yeah overall I’m not really impressed…
Nothing phenomenal about that if you take into account that every reveal Naughty Dog ever did was always touched up bullshot trailers. Also, it's no surprise they're targeting 60fps, all Sony studios are doing that because they haven't invested in the next generation tech on the level of Unreal. Decima is the inly one so far that seems to have had serious investment. I'm sure the game will still look solid and Naughty Dog are very good at animations, but nothing about that trailer blew anyone away like what Naughty Dog did in the past (even though their reveals have always had elements of pre-rendered graphics).
 
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Edder1

Member
...looks identical to the first game. 6+ years of dev time. 250 devs. 8-10x more powerful consoles. Same exact graphics.


Nah, if you put them side by side then you can see clear improvements. It looks like a cross gen game though. The biggest issue are the stiff animations, they look budget AA quality and even more weird with improved graphics. Very uncanny.
 
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Msamy

Member
I don't think gta6 models are nowhere near metahumans, for once.

And i don't except the terrain and the more outdoors, naturalistic areas to look nowhere near hb2 or wukong.

Does it look overall in the same tier because it does things that no other game does? Yes
Does it look better than every ue5 games in every single graphical aspect? Hell no.
I am not with you in models and environment but we will see when gta vi released in the end for me currently both rage and ue5 are the top of industry
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nothing phenomenal about that if you take into account that every reveal Naughty Dog ever did was always touched up bullshot trailers. Also, it's no surprise they're targeting 60fps, all Sony studios are doing that because they haven't invested in the next generation tech on the level of Unreal. Decima is the inly one so far that seems to have had serious investment. I'm sure the game will still look solid and Naughty Dog are very good at animations, but nothing about that trailer blew anyone away like what Naughty Dog did in the past (even though their reveals have always had elements of pre-rendered graphics).
So this is what it feels like to read my pessimistic posts. Fuck, I feel like shit right now lmao.
 

GymWolf

Member
It's simply an excellent single player game. I hate immersive sims because they are boring. This game is anything but. World is well designed and full of side quests and secrets to find like sony's action adventure game pre-open world era. I am still early in the game but it's a breath of fresh air after playing nothing but crap all year. Kinda like Silent Hill 2 which felt like playing a PS2 or PS3 game, but in a good way. Game looked awfully boring in videos but playing it feels completely different. It honestly might be my GOTY.
I have the opposite feeling, game look super boring compared to a proper immersive sim like prey or dishonored.

I understand being a great game for other reasons, but the pure gameplay look pretty crappy, not gonna lie.









honestly, i had no issues with the matrix aside from some cpu related drops that were fixed in UE5.4.

they are also using a custom branch of UE5 so maybe their engineers are fixing the traversal stutter that Epic engineers refuse to fix.

Their own engine crumbled under the increased NPC load in witcher 3's next gen patch. I had a pretty decent CPU and it just tanked the framerate every time i entered the smallest of villages after the RT patch that also let you increase NPC counts. Whereas Matrix was handling tens of thousands of cars and NPCs like a champ on my CPU even before the UE5.4 patch that added CPU multithreading and improved performance by a whopping 80%.
Matrix is a tech demo tho, it lacks a lot of things that make a complete game, and of course on pc w4 is gonna run good on high end hardware, but is it gonna be a stable engine on console?
I guess that using a newer version of ue5 that is more optimized is why he says what he says.

Stalker 2 devs had to completely erase their best feature because a full open world in ue5 is too heavy to handle complex npcs simulations, it doesn't exactly bode well for a game like the witcher, and we know cdpr has a sketchy record when it comes to optimize their games in time for launch...

P.s. i don't wanna argue too much, i don't have enough knowledge or strong feelings toward ue5 being bad for open worlds, just anecdotal stuff.
 
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GymWolf

Member
ok , upon further inspection ...

SlimySnake SlimySnake is right about the RE engine
image_onimusha_way_of_the_sword-45368-5366_0002.jpg


image_onimusha_way_of_the_sword-45368-5366_0005.jpg



as for Intergallatica, I think ND had better step up their game
they have a lot to prove if they wish to stay at the top
I liked the trailer but there was nothing extraordinary about it.
I'm just glad we have a new onimusha, i stopped believing in re engine years ago so i'm not surprised one bit.
 

Edder1

Member
So this is what it feels like to read my pessimistic posts. Fuck, I feel like shit right now lmao.
Dude, no reason to feel down, we're in a fifth year of this generation and we can count on one hand games that have had generational leaps. Even with some of those games we can call "next gen" there are still some elements that are stuck in the past. It's not us that have become pessimistic in our view of games, it's the industry that has completely stalled this gen and publishers have become miserly penny pinchers.
 
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mansoor1980

Member
I would argue that wukong looks much better than re4r or onimusha while being almost open world size at times.

I think that even for semi-lienar games their tech is outdated.
i mean yes wukong or ue5 games look better but that game needs a monster rig.
capcom are trying to get a decent looking game at good framerate on multiple platforms
i think they will def leave RE engine with ps6 gen
 

Xtib81

Member
The Witcher 4 trailer obviously look good but it's kind of hard to be excited with a pre-rendered trailer probably running on a 5090 for a game that entered full production two weeks ago. It's basically their target render for the game but it will probably not launch before a few years so of course lot of things are gonna change with still so much time.

I don't doubt it will be a really good looking game but it would have been way more interesting to have a real time cinematic running on the engine.

I have the impression that CD Projekt is making the same mistake as in the past by wanting to show their game too early.

I'm really tired of this trend. Show your game for the first time 1 year before release and go hard on marketing. Who cares about seeing a trailer of a game that will release in 3 years..?
 

Edder1

Member
i mean yes wukong or ue5 games look better but that game needs a monster rig.
capcom are trying to get a decent looking game at good framerate on multiple platforms
i think they will def leave RE engine with ps6 gen
Capcom are selling you last gen looking games with last gen animations and charging you more money. Nah dude, they can go and stuff themselves with that strategy.
 
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GymWolf

Member
I'm really tired of this trend. Show your game for the first time 1 year before release and go hard on marketing. Who cares about seeing a trailer of a game that will release in 3 years..?
I loved when we got 10 min vertical slices to get hyped a couple of years before release tbh.

But they were proper vertical slices, mostly gameplay, not these in-engine bullshit that doesn't even give you an idea of what the fuck you do in the game.
 
Nothing phenomenal about that if you take into account that every reveal Naughty Dog ever did was always touched up bullshot trailers. Also, it's no surprise they're targeting 60fps, all Sony studios are doing that because they haven't invested in the next generation tech on the level of Unreal. Decima is the inly one so far that seems to have had serious investment. I'm sure the game will still look solid and Naughty Dog are very good at animations, but nothing about that trailer blew anyone away like what Naughty Dog did in the past (even though their reveals have always had elements of pre-rendered graphics).
Of course, only thing that looked great was the lighting & the RT reflections, but ND does have a history of bullshotting their 1st reveals, even if that was bullshot, it didn't impress me much, only the RT effects looked good I guess with the art style ND is known for.
 
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