D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Well, we're pulling into the end game now. Come midnight Wednesday, the die is cast.
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Greece to hold referendum on austerity measures 5 July
- Thread starter Coriolanus
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Coriolanus
Banned
It means that, if that NYT report was accurate and Djelblsmsmms did indeed try to say (paraphrasing) "my way or the highway" in the negotiations, now he'll be acutely aware that he isn't saying that to Syriza or Tsipras, but to Greece, and Greece's position is to tell him to get fucked.
His Majesty
Banned
Let's hope the EU grows a spine, I doubt it though.
helloresolven
Member
Off topic, but how does one pronounce "oxi"?
cyberheater
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So it looks like a no vote.
What does that mean for Greece and staying in the Eurozone?
What does that mean for Greece and staying in the Eurozone?
The polls are not done by the media but by independent institutes, often at the request of and financed by a media outlet. I'm not familiar with the Greek polling institutes but their results should be published in a more comprehensive, scientific format on the website of the institute as well, the media that requested/financed the poll "just" gets early access. There's nothing you can "hide", unless of course you accuse the institutes of manipulating those polled and/or the results of the polls which you'd need to legitimately prove.
The issue here seems to be 1) there's no previous data available for the polling institutes, it's a one-time referendum which are always a bit harder to predict and 2) possibly outdated methods of polling. But you'd have to look at each poll individually as well as all the data they'll get of the official results and, if done, exit polls to get a better picture of what exactly went wrong. It's sadly not an exact science like math.
BTW I predicted a 50%+ vote for "No"! Praise me!
I guess that means that the rest of europe will continue to pump a shitload of money into a country that don't want / is unable to fix it's broken economy.
Ether_Snake
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Yay, The Guardian:
Coriolanus
Banned
BTW I predicted a 50%+ vote for "No"! Praise me!
Ten points off and you want praise? haha
I invite you to look at where nearly all of that money was actually going.
Tsipras actually did it, the madman. With so many people and parties (including so many in the Greek media) lined up against him I was sure he'd lose the referendum to the politics of fear, but the Greek people have backed him to get them out of this mess. That's astonishing courage, and I dearly hope it's rewarded. It was a kind of courage I could never imagine my people (Irish) coming up with. And a clear majority means a clear mandate. This is huge.
Finally the troika have met their match, and either a better deal within the EZ or economic freedom outside of it will now be the result. A yes vote would have achieved nothing but continuing the futile austerity and pain of the last 5 years. I'm over the moon about this.
Also, having read this thread for a week now I'd just like to say that if there was a GAF election I'd vote for Ether_Snake.
Finally the troika have met their match, and either a better deal within the EZ or economic freedom outside of it will now be the result. A yes vote would have achieved nothing but continuing the futile austerity and pain of the last 5 years. I'm over the moon about this.
Also, having read this thread for a week now I'd just like to say that if there was a GAF election I'd vote for Ether_Snake.
I don't see anything changing either.
The stalemate at the negotiation table will likely continue. From the point of view of the creditors, they have already moved away from their original demands as much as they say they can account for (like decreasing the target surplus from 3% GDP to 1% GDP). And Tsipras can't agree to that deal or any deal that is worse than that. Additionally, the fact that the 2nd bailout program has expired will make the next steps only more complicated and time-consuming.
If that stalemate continues, the ELAs won't increase any further, and Greece will default on its upcoming payments.
I said it when it was more popular to say "Yes" will win.
I'm practically a GAF insider by these measures!
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Dark days ahead for greece. They don't want austerity, but now it will be forced upon them and much worse than had they agreed to reforms.
I said it when it was more popular to say "Yes" will win.
I'm practically a GAF insider by these measures!
You support Butterkuchen.
You are the enemy.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
'okie-dokie', the first part of.
cyberheater
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Probably because a Eurozone country can't been seen to fail.
Didn't they just vote not to have this done to them?
Who said they won't be agreeing to reforms?
PdotMichael
Banned
I would say that the referendum gives the other EU states just the political legitimation of pushing Greece out in whatever way.
nature boy
Member
Absolutely nothing. More important is the degraded economic conditions.
If you don't have any money and just took a piss at the only people left willing to lend you money, then 'austerity' is not something that is done to you. You just don't have any money left, at least not for imports. You can spend as much of your new currency as you can get from taxes, but you won't be able to spend it on anything that is not produced inside the country. And Greece doesn't produce a lot.
Ether_Snake
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lol, I would probably get a negative result, as in -X%.
edit: For those wondering what's next, obviously the Debt Cut is now on the table, thanks to the IMF report + No vote.
what? no. it's "oche" as in the English e (not i) and ch like in Chanukka but softer.
Go on. But don't quote Varoufakis and his 90% of the money went to european banks.
Yes some money went back to the actual loaners (I know it's shocking that they want their money back). But a lot of money went into creating new jobs in the government and also raising government employees wages.
In particular because the bailouts are very unpopular in the participating Euro countries. Troika, too, has a mandate.
protonion
Member
Coriolanus
Banned
When in doubt, remember that Google Translator has an option to speak words. And that the pronunciation tends to be correct for major languages.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
No way. I was in Cyprus two weeks ago and everyone says okie but with the k muffled.
Actually, Cyprus skips the 'x' and usually say 'oi' (o-ee).
Russia had strong growth after it defaulted.
Maybe we mean the same but "k" and "x" are to different letters man.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, that's another way of describing it. Is that just a Cypriot thing, then?
Locke Lamora
Member
Well... do you need a referendum on the correct pronunciation? ;-)
I think it stems from Crete.
PodcastFips
Member
o-chee should be right for English speakers.
Btw, Greeks are partying like there's no tomorrow.
Btw, Greeks are partying like there's no tomorrow.
Well, maybe you should only listen to the Greeks in this thread then.
Now, let me tell you how you pronounce the poetic word "Kläranlagentaucher".
PdotMichael
Banned
Russia should normally swim in money with all the resources they have.
While Greece has only tourism and cement.
ClosingADoor
Member
Good luck to Greece I guess. Back to negotiations, but now with no money in the bank.
I don't see that as very obvious. The Greeks might be for that, but the other Euro countries need to explain that somehow to their populations. Won't be easy.
It's not just about the Greek people. Taxpayers of the other countries are the ones paying that money if it doesn't get paid back.
The unwillingness to give somebody money on their terms instead of your own is now an active act of pushing somebody out? If Europe wanted to push Greece out, they could have done that much earlier before they gave Greece hundreds of billions of Euros, the equivalent of many, many Marshall plans.
It's fair to say that Europe's plans over the last five years haven't worked out, at least not in Greece, but demonizing the other members of the Eurozone as being unwilling to help is unwarranted.
Which had very little to do with anything Russia itself did at that time considering oil prices skyrocketed causing the growth.
protonion
Member
When they start printing their own currency inflation will rocket, they won't be able to buy the things they once did, whole industries will go to pot, unemployment will go through the roof, things are about to get a lot worse at least in the short term.
alexandros
Banned
As long as it is clear that said hundreds of billions were not poured into the greek economy or used to help those who were suffering. They were used to pay out external loans and effectively bail out banks and other private creditors. It is a big help, no doubt, but let's not present it as if all that money was given directly to Greece.
ClosingADoor
Member
The whole 'fuck Merkel, Dijselbloem, etc' is not really helping in getting support from other countries indeed. Greece is in a bad state, but it's not like Spain, France, Italy, etc are doing so amazing and they are paying part of those debts.
It was not, and it was a big giant mistake. Those banks should have taken the loss or worked out some other solution. But that doesn't change where the money came from and who is paying for it.
Ether_Snake
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Of course they most likely won't agree to it, but the thing is I doubt the Troika's offer would be much different either way, they know the most meaningful move they can make it debt cut. So it's that or Drachma really. The Euro would probably not rise if Greece drops the Euro, because it would not increase confidence in the currency since it would set quite a precedent, so I think it's the most likely outcome for the near term. Germany should be happy with that in the end since the currency would stay low, or lower.
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