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[Angst]

The M3 CSL certainly is faster than most of the cars. But please also consider that most of the passes I did was when the other driver took the wrong racing line, i.e. braking too late, getting too low speed out of corners etc. I had no bumps with other cars and didn't spin out once. All in all I had both a very good car and a lucky race I guess.

The car ending up in place #2 is as far as I can tell one of the cars where it's really hard to get good lap times. If we only look at the cars the RX7s and the NSXs should have been higher placed than the Audi. And that mean Schmitty was driving that TT like a champ in my book.

But yeah, the M3 is crazy fast for it's specs and there's no way I could have done lap times around 1.52 in another car. I'd be happy to slap on another 150 kg ballast for the next race. I was running with 50 kg ballast in this race - I was going to raise it to 100 kg, but I ran out of time.

Edit - looking at the race replay (thanks Gutterboy for the upload) I noticed that Dead Man did a 1.52.9 lap in the NSX. I think this means the NSX is pretty much on par with the M3 if I add some more ballast. On lap 12 or 13 I caught up with Dead Man, but as my tyres where starting to go I couldn't get past him and lap by lap he pulled away from me.

 

[gutterboy44]

Fuck me, you guys were doing 52's?! I was stoked to get into the 54's during the race. My car is 66kg heavier and zerodownforce soi guess that makes sense.

Does the PP system take into account downforce? Downforce in GT5 is a huge advantage because they model massive grip increases with virtually no decrease in top speed. The best setup for every track, event Daytona SS is always full downforce. The only time to ever go less than max is to balance the handling.

If the PP system works I think we should do that. People won't have to worry about getting exact weight and HP. The true test of the equality of the PP system would to just rime trial a bunch of identical PP cars on different tracks. It would make sense that maybe a dame PP NSX qoul be better at Suzuka then may a same PP GTR.

 

[ashk]

Does the PP system take into account downforce? Downforce in GT5 is a huge advantage because they model massive grip increases with virtually no decrease in top speed. The best setup for every track, event Daytona SS is always full downforce. The only time to ever go less than max is to balance the handling.

I think it does - if you increase downforce in the settings the PP goes up.

 

[gutterboy44]

I think it does - if you increase downforce in the settings the PP goes up.

Sweet, I think the PP might be the way to go then. If you don't belive me about the max downforce always being fastest you can test it yourself. Even on a mega straight like Fuji or Monza you lose almost no top speed but you can so much cornering speed it is insane. Moreover, GT5 models tire degradation very high when you slide your car, so less slip angle, ie huh down force also makes your tires last longer.

Pro Tip: as fun as it is, doing the wiggle to warm up your tires on a parade lap is worth less. It ust wears down the tires and the go cold over and over. Don't worry the tires will be perfect temperature after 1 turn at racing speed.

Just out of curiosity, what was everyone's PP with the car an setup they used yesterday?

 

[Angst]

Mine was at 595 PP I think. Lemme check.

And no - PP doesn't work as it should. AFAIK the Audi TT has the same PP as the BMW M3.

 

[Schmitty]

Mine was at 595 PP I think. Lemme check.

And no - PP doesn't work as it should. AFAIK the Audi TT has the same PP as the BMW M3.

I was just about to say that. My TT is awesome, but that extra 73 kg over the limit is what holds me back from those faster lap times. The best I've done in it is 1.55 on GVS.

 

[Angst]

I was just about to say that. My TT is awesome, but that extra 73 kg over the limit is what holds me back from those faster lap times. The best I've done in it is 1.55 on GVS.

I just checked and with my settings the TT has 595 PP, whereas my M3 has 597. And the M3 weighs more than the TT, but still is 3 seconds faster per lap on perfect tyres.

 

[Schmitty]

I thought you had me Tox on that final straight away!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFrUtnZOOgM#t=31m57s

 

[Dead Man]

I think with PP it would be closer than it is now, since more combinations could get closer to say 550 or 600pp instead of still being 300 kgs overweight but not being able to add any power. It basically makes it a pwr/weight/downforce combined rating system, so the cars should be closer than what they are now. It won't be perfect, of course, but it should be closer.

Edit: It should also be noted that the suspension tune and drive train if a car can be wroth up to 5 seconds a lap in my experience, so I would not expect identical times from identical PP. GT5 also seems to model weight distribution vertically as well as horizontally so that is another are where cars will diverge.

 

[CozMick]

Watching those replays really does make you appreciate how godly the visuals are in this game, it's like a damn race on tv.

The lap 2/3 battle between me and gutterboy was insane, swapping positions almost every corner, your Ferrari is beast!

Also, thanks for the youtube replay, love it

 

[brentech]

Currently working through the Round 2 photo-recap.
Lap one is always a beast full of photos, but I'm on like lap 7 and accidentally exited the replay. So, gotta let it play back through to that point.
Once I get all the photos, gotta transfer to computer, resize, and then post up.
Expect it sometime in the afternoon.

 

[Lion Heart]

Huh? I have the full grid from my replay. What is your PSN name? Might have been a sync issue. Sorry mate, let me download different replay and see of I can figure this out.

Whoops, according to the first page grid list, Mill6es is you, with that car. Ok changed it on the list and on youtube. Sorry!


!!Full Race replay is now up!!


I was able to capture some good battles I think. As with first lap replays, I totally forgot about the camera switching. Still good with the cinematic camera. Sorry if I switch sporadically at all during it. Sometimes I see two arrows near each other and try to find the people who are racing closely real quick but pick the wrong car/person.

No I'm Lion Heart (Assassin47) . Thanks for uploading the replay, I appreciate it.

 

[weekend_warrior]

I think with PP it would be closer than it is now, since more combinations could get closer to say 550 or 600pp instead of still being 300 kgs overweight but not being able to add any power. It basically makes it a pwr/weight/downforce combined rating system, so the cars should be closer than what they are now. It won't be perfect, of course, but it should be closer.

Vissione said his STi had a PP of 610, whereas the M3's is 597, probably lower then anyone elses. Limiting the PP is not gonna help at all.


I think we should run some tests with different HP/weight limits. We'll increase weight limit to 1200kg, since I think everyone can make that, and and increase HP limit to 430, to see if the bigger cars like the STi and R8 are better able to utilize the extra HP.

I still think we should ban standard model cars.

 

[vissione]

.

 

[Angst]

Vissione said his STi had a PP of 610, whereas the M3's is 597, probably lower then anyone elses. Limiting the PP is not gonna help at all.


I think we should run some tests with different HP/weight limits. We'll increase weight limit to 1200kg, since I think everyone can make that, and and increase HP limit to 430, to see if the bigger cars like the STi and R8 are better able to utilize the extra HP.

I still think we should ban standard model cars.

I absolutely think we should be doing tests to see how we can level the field. I don't want to ban standard cars though as the M3 as been my favourite car since GT4... I will run some tests with the BMW M3 GTR and see if there's any difference - I'll also try some other standard cars. I don't think standards are any better (try using the RUF D - it's just the BMW that has crazy amounts of torque for the relatively low BHP.

And I think that's what we're overlooking - torque. Makes a ton of difference. Also car handling. Gutterboy's Ferrari is awesome, but it oversteers quite a lot (at least when I drive it). The 4WD cars all understeer making you either burn tyres too quick or take corners too slow.

And as I said earlier - the NSX can do the same lap times as the M3. So if we ban the M3, should we keep the NSX?

D: it's actually 607 with max downforce. 604 with default downforce. I didn't want to lower my top speed but Ineffect suggested I try it and bam my specs went up. I was only able to do a best time of 1:57-1:58 on GVS. My car weighs 1152Kg and the 1:57 times are barely dipping below 1:58.

Someone needs to drive my car and show me how it's done!

Downforce should always be max as it doesn't affect top speed in GT5. I'll try running some laps on GVS with the Impreza and see what I can do. I don't think it'll be much better as I think that car understeers like crazy. If I can fix the understeer I'll be happy to give you the settings.

 

[UFRA]

I still think we should ban standard model cars.

lol I don't know why you are focusing on that after the example I gave you.

Like I said, the majority of the cars that are too fast in this league are actually premiums.

I know you don't think the RX-7 and NSX are that fast, but I could also run a 1:52 on GVS with the RX-7 as well. I've only been in 1 race so far with my RX-7 and I won it, and on friday night I won like 80% of our GVS practice races even with 40kg of extra ballast. Once Angst switched to the M3 CSL then I had a fair fight, and even then I was able to maintain the split time from him. I didn't gain on him, but he didn't escape me either.

Those 4 cars I posted are definitely faster. The reason some of them may not seem like as big of a threat compared to the M3 CSL is partially the drivers (no offense). So far the NSX's have been in some crashes - as well as the Evora, and as I said I've only been in 1 race with my RX-7. So naturally the M3 CSL's recent domination was fresh in memory.

Even right off the starting line I feel overpowered as I can usually get the jump on at least 2 cars before the first corner. If an RX-7/NSX/M3 CSL/Evora gets in the lead and the driver doesn't crash, it's over.

High Speed Ring was mostly about slipstreaming so these cars didn't seem like much of an issue. On GVS, it's about cornering and acceleration, and so their true level of speed really showed.

Despite this, I think you're onto something WW with increasing the minimum weight limit. That's a good idea to consider and try.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Jesus Christ, I just ran a 1:53.4 on GVS after 2 practice laps with bare minimum tuning in an NSX-R. Thats 3 seconds faster then my Corvette which I've spent countless hours testing and tuning. The NSX handles like a goddamn dream. :\

edit:

lol I don't know why you are focusing on that after the example I gave you.

I've changed my position on premium cars. I think we should do some testing, but I hate the idea of limiting car choice as thats what make this league so special.

 

[Angst]

I'm going to the lounge to do some testing with different cars. Feel free to join me

Ufra: I found the M3 GTR! Should be in your profile now

 

[UFRA]

I'm going to the lounge to do some testing with different cars. Feel free to join me

Ufra: I found the M3 GTR! Should be in your profile now

<3 you!!!

Thank you so much.

Edit: We're getting 12-15in of snow tonight, I may be busy randomly throughout the day with clean up lol.

I'll try to get on and join you guys soon.

 

[UFRA]

That dang mouse is back, and has whispered me some stuff:

Argh... they changed the way replays show up on the menu. It used to say the time now it says just “1st” place. This is gonna be a huge headache for the NRPC.

I asked Seks to send me the fastest replays, thinking he could just see it in the menu. Now he must be pissed. Tell him to wait and ill tell him which are the fastest. Hope he checks the thread before watching all the replays.

 

[brentech]

I've got like a 45 image recap. Should I post it in one, or separate?

 

[Schmitty]

I don't think a weight increase would necessarily fix the problem. The CSL is heavier than my TT, yet still blows me away. I think its all about cornering.

 

[brentech]

The first 21 images are the trials and tribulations of lap 1 (photo after the pits begins imaging from lap 2 and later). Beyond that, we have some pretty solid racing.






































































Unforced error. Luckily, no one was around.


















Getting chased on lap 15


Smoke spewing from tires as they compete for position before the final straight.

 

[vissione]

.

 

[Angst]

Lol that's a lot of images! Will look through later - in the middle of practice now.

I did some testing with the Subaru and managed to get a 1.53.4 or in it. So it's not so slow. Could probably go below 1.53 with more practice. Will try the NSX now and see what I can do.

 

[UFRA]

Vissione, IMO you have the rear LSD values set way too high.

You shouldn't be trying to prevent all wheel spin. In some ways it can help your car turn into corners better. What you have there must cause major understeer.

I think the default values for cars are usually 10,40,20.

By preventing wheel spin and causing understeer that can definitely be a cause for the Subaru to seem slow.

You've also raised the height of your car? And you did so in a way to create more understeer.

If anything you should be lowering the car a bit - usually 5mm at a time is a good test.

The Subaru is 4WD and should be pretty stable to drive. Not sure why you want to create understeer with it lol.

As for your camber - you need to increase camber when you increase the grip of the tires. You have nearly stock values, but I bet you run Racing: Soft tires. You should have the front (where body roll happens) a bit higher than the rear. I usually run my car at about 3.0 in the front, 2.5 in the rear, but you can go higher than that if it handles well.

Edit 5: The suspension settings in general are very contradictory and are probably causing a lot of strange handling.

Height - High front, low rear causes understeer.
Spring Rate - Stiff front, soft rear causes understeer
Compression/extension - soft front, stiff rear causes oversteer
Roll bars - Opposite of the springs as they should be, but again very extreme differences.

 

[Angst]

1.51.7 with the NSX on GVS. And I messed up a little bit - probably cost me .5 or something.

So: the M3 is as "overpowered" as the NSX... or the NSX is even faster actually.

 

[gutterboy44]

Lol that's a lot of images! Will look through later - in the middle of practice now.

I did some testing with the Subaru and managed to get a 1.53.4 or in it. So it's not so slow. Could probably go below 1.53 with more practice. Will try the NSX now and see what I can do.

This is key. One person setting consistent laps with all the cars. Then compare PP. I have a feeling an even PP field will be closer than we think. If you aren't utilizing the car's max down force it is just a waste of PP.

 

[UFRA]

NPRC February 2011:
Volkswagen Golf IV GTI '01 [143 BHP]

31,500


(click lap times to download the replay file)

 

[Niks]

My name looks quite nice at the top of that list I gotta say.

Is there no one that can challenge me? Mwahahaha

 

[TheSeks]

@MM: I don't know what you mean. Did I put the files in the wrong folders or what? To the best of my knowledge, those are the fastest times as I wrote down/memorized which of the laps was the fastest. You said you only wanted one of the laps so I've already deleted the extras. :/

 

[UFRA]

My name looks quite nice at the top of that list I gotta say.

Is there no one that can challenge me? Mwahahaha

LOL Quite confident there for a .014 lead!!

I definitely will make a 2nd attempt yet this month.

 

[Dead Man]

This is key. One person setting consistent laps with all the cars. Then compare PP. I have a feeling an even PP field will be closer than we think. If you aren't utilizing the car's max down force it is just a waste of PP.

Yeah, comparing PP with different drivers is no good, I nominate Agnst for test driver!

 

[weekend_warrior]

Thats hella wierd looking tuning you got there.

I'm getting some help with my car and here comes another barrage of photos!

Looks good, everyone should be using max downforce.

I don't think ballast position matters when you're not actually using ballast, so no harm no foul.

Stage 3 tuning makes sense. I'm wondering you could benefit from a combo tune/turbo to get more top end speed. I couldn't tell you though.

You really have it set to 162 for GVS? I have my Corvette at 180 to take advantage of drafting.

I really dont see any reason to have the front LSD at 7, just set it to zero. Your rear is also to high, with an AWD car you shouldn't be getting much wheel spin, so you're only hurting your turning ability by setting the LSD too high.

Now this is a big problem IMO. Maybe it's preference, but I just don't see why you want 35% of the power going to the front. You're on tarmac, with racing soft tires, you just don't need 35% of the power going to the front. You're asking too much of the front tires. They already take the brunt of braking wear, the brunt of steering wear, and now they need to take 35% of acceleration wear. I'd set it to 10/90, and only increase the front % until you can get on the gas as hard as you want out of a corner without spinning.

This is just... what?!
Ride height:Why is your front higher then your rear? You're causing major under-steer that way.
Spring-rate: This looks good, I'd have to test it to know if it too high or low but the proportion is right, the engine is in the front so the springs should be a little stiffer in the front.
Dampers: This is just... what?! How did you come up with these settings? I can't imagine those settings are helping you, so I'd recommend re-setting them to the 6/7 range.
Anti-roll bars: Why is your rear at one? With a high center of gravity car you'd want these pretty strong, put it at 7 front, 9 rear.
Camber: you could do with more camber here. 2.5ish front/rear for starters
Toe: I'm not hugely knowledgeable about toe, but I'm pretty sure rear toe-out (.20, not -.20) would help you cut into corners harder.

Without GT5 having a brake upgrade option this is basically the only way to get more braking power, put it at 7 front/ 6 rear.

Hopefully this will help you get your times down a little.

 

[Toxa]

there's no differences between standar and premium cars it's the same physics there 'no reason to ban them




It was a good party

first it was well organized (thanks MM) nice work.
Qualify session failed and I don't know why it failed here and worked for the Super GT League.

3th place is not bad for "my car is too slow "

the start was a real mess, many people complained about the start in Super GT at GVSbut it was even worse.
I lost a lot of time trying to keep my car intact, I reached the 4th place during the third lap but I was too far away from the lead (15 sec)

the race was quite boring I was faster than Schmitty and MM, I was running around 1.56 1.57 and I kept the pace for almost 10 laps then I saw MM in the pit I was wondering if it was his strategy or if his car was damaged and I was wondering if I should pit but Angst and Schlitty decided to stay on the track so I decided to do the same !

later brosey tried to ruin my race in the first corner xD I managed to catch Schmittyand I managed to pass him several times but it was too difficult to stay ahead with tires almost dead and my S2000 love the oversteering. if only I had more laps or fresh tires

my car was too slow to fight for the win anyway it's a good result

 

[Angst]

Good stuff coming up:

Côte d'Azur

Length: 2.08mi/3473 m Longest Straight: 0.15mi/650 m Elevation Change: 145.0ft/17,9 m Corners: 26​

Race starts in:

Regulations:

Cars from the Year '79 or older.
490PP or under.
Any member can participate. This will not be a team based race. Points won't be awarded to the teams.​

How to join:

Add the PS3 account "GT5NRL" to your friends list and join the private lounge a couple of minutes before the race time.​

Players Participating in Round 1 (0/16):

• 01 - weekend_warrior
• 02 - Vissione
• 03 - Niks
• 04 - UFRA
• 05 - Metalmurphy
• 06 - SunhiLegend
• 07 - Dead Man
• 08 - Schmitty
• 09 - Kaze13
• 10 -
• 11 -
• 12 -
• 13 -
• 14 -
• 15 -
• 16 -

 

[weekend_warrior]

Sweet a whole field of Toyota 7's racing each other. I'm there!

 

[brentech]

Damn, looks fun, but too late for me to make that day.

 

[Angst]

Sweet a whole field of Toyota 7's racing each other. I'm there!

Lol

Nope, I'm currently deciding between the Mini Marcos, Triumph Spitfire and Alfa Romeo Giulia. I think the Toyota 7 has way too much PP as well. You'll be running with ballast and power limiter at 40% for it to work.

 

[Niks]

Sign me up. Ill probably race a corvette.

 

[UFRA]

Sign me up. I think I'll be using a Chaparral 2D Race Car '67 car around 490PP lol.

 

[Angst]

I think I will be using the Alpine A110 1600S ‘73, haven't made a final decision yet though.

 

[CozMick]

2am starts ain't good for me, sorry guys.

It'll be a "will join if awake on the night" if the server ain't full.

 

[UFRA]

Gonna be in the GT5NRL lounge doing some practice for the classic car event.

 

[Schmitty]

I'm in

 

[Dead Man]

That's awesome, but I have a SuperGT race about the same time I think. Boo. I'll check, but I hope not.

Edit: Actually that works out really well, up at 7am for the Super GT, then the NRL at noon. Nice one. I'm in.

 

[brentech]

I'm sure I'll spend time practicing with you all this week, but the event itself is just too late a start. Will allow me to screw around with a few cars though, instead of just working on a single ride for competition.

 

[gutterboy44]

Sweet, I am in for the special event. Don't even have to change my car!! Just need to tone down the PP.

I was just thinking how fun it would be to race some vintage cars around a track like Monaco. The lack of downforce wouldn't be so detrimental.

 

[Kaze13]

Yes, I'm a junior. Yes, I've been lurking the boards for a while. Is it too late to join in on the fray? I am tired of racing against bumper car idiots. Itchin for some clean racing.

 

[Dead Man]

Just quoting myself from another thread in hopes of someone being able to answer:

Has anyone else noticed odd behaviour from the PP calculation? If I buy my power and weight reduction, and nothing else the PP it will be say.. 400. But then if I buy drive line stuff it will shoot up to say.. 500 with no warning. So I took off all my drive line stuff and it stayed at 500 until I removed the transmission. Then I could put everything back on and it would stay at 400.

Anyone else experience that? Or am I missing the logic?