opticalmace
Member
Holy crap, just got my first platinum trophy!
What an awesome game.
What an awesome game.
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Guacamelee! |OT| ¡Mexicovania - Olé!
- Thread starter ThatStupidLion
- Start date
GAF, I appreciate the encouragement, but seriously I've gone home to be a family man. I must have retried like 40 times before quitting. Calaca can keep the girl and preside over Satan's dominion.
i had my problems with him too.
the secret is jumping, befor you even see him.
Yeah, I tried that too. It was a bitch going through all the obstacles again... and still I failed.
Sorry but that doesn't even make sense to me... he's right there... on the screen... visible the whole time.
Wibblewozzer
Member
I'll be honest, I beat the game because he glitched and stopped attacking on my third or fourth attempt. I just stood in place and hit him until he died. I was already learning his pattern and I'm sure I would have beaten him without that but it was a lot less stressful beating him that way.GAF, I appreciate the encouragement, but seriously I've gone home to be a family man. I must have retried like 40 times before quitting. Calaca can keep the girl and preside over Satan's dominion.
Also sort of made it anticlimactic, heh. Oh well!
Wonko_C
Member
Guys, I don't want this to sound mean-spirited but... some of you need some practice. Guacamelee is pretty tame by old-school standards, including the "hidden" platforming sections. The bosses' patterns are easy to figure out and you can pretty much beat them without getting hit after a few rounds. Don't give up, try a few times (once you start doing worse, quit for the day, a few minutes a day is more than enough), put the game down, come back to it another day. You'll get better after some days/(weeks?).
Even old school games have difficulty selects. Failing that, there was game genie.
Javier was insanely hard for me.
Calaca was also really really hard getting to know his patterns the first time I beat him, but it suddenly clicked for me during that time I won. After 100%ing and coming back to get the last orb I ended up beating both forms on my first go through.
I wish I could go right back and fight Javier again to see if he was any easier too.
Javier was the first time in the game where you actually have to strategically fight and use your skills wisely which is what made it so hard for me. Before that pretty much everything was just use whatever move you want.
Calaca was also really really hard getting to know his patterns the first time I beat him, but it suddenly clicked for me during that time I won. After 100%ing and coming back to get the last orb I ended up beating both forms on my first go through.
I wish I could go right back and fight Javier again to see if he was any easier too.
Javier was the first time in the game where you actually have to strategically fight and use your skills wisely which is what made it so hard for me. Before that pretty much everything was just use whatever move you want.
Finished this the other day. Damn good game. I loved the Mexican setting and couldn't stop laughing at the Goat man.
On the gameplay side everything felt polished. I really liked the fighting, simple but fun to see how high you could get a combo. Platforming was super tight as well.
I only really had trouble on the last boss. Oh, and the saw blade orb was a pain to get although it stumped me for about an hour. Felt pretty good to get all of them and get the alternate ending.
Good times Drinkbox, good times.
On the gameplay side everything felt polished. I really liked the fighting, simple but fun to see how high you could get a combo. Platforming was super tight as well.
I only really had trouble on the last boss. Oh, and the saw blade orb was a pain to get although it stumped me for about an hour. Felt pretty good to get all of them and get the alternate ending.
Good times Drinkbox, good times.
Well since there was no other way to replay the boss fight, I finally did the original boss fight again after 100%'ing the map on normal, so I could see the other ending and start a new game on hard mode.
I guess I never learned what "trout" meant the first time through the game. It seems it's the male equivalent of a cougar, an older male looking to pick up younger women ("they swim downstream in age")?
I guess I never learned what "trout" meant the first time through the game. It seems it's the male equivalent of a cougar, an older male looking to pick up younger women ("they swim downstream in age")?
I've now done every achievement except the two hard mode ones and the 'use all six special attacks without hitting the ground' one. After getting all the gold medals I put on the Diablo suit, beat Calaca for probably the fourth or fifth time and just began hard mode.
Nice to see all the costumes unlocked on my first playthrough are all available from the beginning now doing hard mode.
I did "cheat" with the thing you unlock with the orbs (is it a spoiler to say what you get?) for a few of the medals that I'd done properly for a silver but couldn't be bothered doing over and over again for the gold. Used it for the 'get through some stage using goat fly no more than four times' achievement as well because that seemed like it would be too time consuming and I just wanted to get it done so I could begin hard mode.
Nice to see all the costumes unlocked on my first playthrough are all available from the beginning now doing hard mode.
I did "cheat" with the thing you unlock with the orbs (is it a spoiler to say what you get?) for a few of the medals that I'd done properly for a silver but couldn't be bothered doing over and over again for the gold. Used it for the 'get through some stage using goat fly no more than four times' achievement as well because that seemed like it would be too time consuming and I just wanted to get it done so I could begin hard mode.
Well, on hard mode, some boss fights were more annoying than I remembered, presumably because of hard mode. The evil lady was irritating with her unblockable projectiles.
But wow, I think I've just spent an hour failing to beat flame face. I think I understand all of his moves, I'm fine fighting him...
MY PROBLEM IS THE YELLOW SKELETONS. Of all the enemies in the game, the two I think I hate more than anything are the flying spitter things (classic rule of videogames that any flying spitting enemy is horrible), and the yellow skeletons.
I know you can wait until they jump, but they're hard to hit, they're nearly impossible to triple hit combo, they take far too many hits to kill, they seem to have some sort of weird grab resistance/dodge unless you get them just in the right spot, and I feel like I die most times due to screwing up and getting hit by flame face while I'm trying to quickly kill a yellow skeleton.
I'll take a powerful single boss any day over trying to dodge and kill tons of flying/spitting/yellow skeleton minions. =(
(I'm not asking for advice, since I still feel like I -could- beat him given another hour or two, but I'll come back to it later)
*edit* I came back to it later and beat him on hard, maybe took another 20 minutes.
But wow, I think I've just spent an hour failing to beat flame face. I think I understand all of his moves, I'm fine fighting him...
MY PROBLEM IS THE YELLOW SKELETONS. Of all the enemies in the game, the two I think I hate more than anything are the flying spitter things (classic rule of videogames that any flying spitting enemy is horrible), and the yellow skeletons.
I know you can wait until they jump, but they're hard to hit, they're nearly impossible to triple hit combo, they take far too many hits to kill, they seem to have some sort of weird grab resistance/dodge unless you get them just in the right spot, and I feel like I die most times due to screwing up and getting hit by flame face while I'm trying to quickly kill a yellow skeleton.
I'll take a powerful single boss any day over trying to dodge and kill tons of flying/spitting/yellow skeleton minions. =(
(I'm not asking for advice, since I still feel like I -could- beat him given another hour or two, but I'll come back to it later)
*edit* I came back to it later and beat him on hard, maybe took another 20 minutes.
Conclusion: Yes, Javier on hard mode is a royal pain, at least if you're not amazing, and you're playing it in the middle of the night. It probably took me 3-5 hours off and on.
I wanted to make sure I recorded it in Fraps, and from the videos I deleted and the time spent, I'm guessing it was 100-200 tries.
I'm convinced out of the last 8 tries, at least 6 of them ended up with me getting Javier to the white shield zone, and then me dying to either the unblockable fire pillar or (more rarely) the unblockable dash.
The dash:
The pillar is the worst, though:
I feel like once you practice enough, the fight basically comes down to getting lucky about how often Javier uses the pillar, and to a lesser extent the side dashes.
Since I had also raced through hard mode without doing most of the side quests or secret hunts for extra items, I don't think I had a lot of health. Every try was death in 4 hits. On the final, successful run, I was down to 1/4 health when Javier had half his health, so I'm happy about how it ended. I'll try to transcode and upload the video later today. I recorded at 60 fps, but of course youtube will be 30 fps and probably look ugly.
I wanted to make sure I recorded it in Fraps, and from the videos I deleted and the time spent, I'm guessing it was 100-200 tries.
I'm convinced out of the last 8 tries, at least 6 of them ended up with me getting Javier to the white shield zone, and then me dying to either the unblockable fire pillar or (more rarely) the unblockable dash.
The dash:
It's telegraphed and you have time to dodge it, so if your reflexes are good it's merely annoying. If it happens right after a dimension shift it can be very hard to see though.
The pillar is the worst, though:
There's a very brief warning gesture with Javier's hands in the air, but typically I would either be in motion rolling, in motion dodging, or already in the air, with very little time to avoid it. If I started trying to use the side air dash to dodge it I -might- be able to avoid, but it's still really fast.
I feel like once you practice enough, the fight basically comes down to getting lucky about how often Javier uses the pillar, and to a lesser extent the side dashes.
Since I had also raced through hard mode without doing most of the side quests or secret hunts for extra items, I don't think I had a lot of health. Every try was death in 4 hits. On the final, successful run, I was down to 1/4 health when Javier had half his health, so I'm happy about how it ended. I'll try to transcode and upload the video later today. I recorded at 60 fps, but of course youtube will be 30 fps and probably look ugly.
I got through Javier without any real trouble on normal.we'll see if that comes back to bite me on the ass on hard.
Yeah,I never would have found the one in the woods and possibly the one in the mountains without help. found the rest on my own though.
Yeah,I never would have found the one in the woods and possibly the one in the mountains without help. found the rest on my own though.
Wonko_C
Member
Nos that you mention it, that's what this game is missing: Boss Rush Mode!
Towards the end I had nearly everything right but I kept dying in the final section to one of the fast attacks. The original video was 60 fps, so please pardon what's lost in translation with youtube and other encoding shenanigans. I'm not very knowledgeable about that.
Example failure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WaL-nUi7Q
Final success:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5FcgOQ8-hM
Example failure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WaL-nUi7Q
Final success:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5FcgOQ8-hM
Platinumed the game on my Vita the other day. Great experience, had tons of fun and even played through it 2 times in a row, which is really rare for me.
Both times, I played on Hard difficulty, and definitely, Javier is a lot harder then the final boss. But is not that bad. Just play more defensively and chain long combos only after he is in the air. Also having few health upgrades does help a ton.
Both times, I played on Hard difficulty, and definitely, Javier is a lot harder then the final boss. But is not that bad. Just play more defensively and chain long combos only after he is in the air. Also having few health upgrades does help a ton.
That seems pretty aggressive spacing wise to me so I can maybe see why you would get caught out by fast attacks
Yeah, it is probably better to wait until he uses a jump move and then move in. I think I was originally getting hit way too much by the splash from the jumps, so I just started rolling to get inside them, and I suppose kept doing it out of habit.
Yeah, when he has the rapid-hit shield on is when that fight becomes a problem. I recall trying to air juggle him a bit during that session which helped, even though he eventually just falls out.
And PLATINUM'D! Aww yeah! Hard mode wasn't all that hard, except in the beginning when certain enemies could one-shot me cause I didn't have much health yet. Finding all the chests was a bit difficult, but the map was pretty helpful and thank god it gave a percentage of completion for each area (even though it's bugged for Tule Tree and the other one).
And PLATINUM'D! Aww yeah! Hard mode wasn't all that hard, except in the beginning when certain enemies could one-shot me cause I didn't have much health yet. Finding all the chests was a bit difficult, but the map was pretty helpful and thank god it gave a percentage of completion for each area (even though it's bugged for Tule Tree and the other one).
Are you sure it's bugged? I think there were a couple of hard-to-find chests for me.
ToyMachine228
Member
Wishing I picked this up during the Steam sale now. Non-buyers remorse.
By bugged, I mean the "chests found" percentage goes over 100% for Tule Tree and another one. Something about chests you already got respawning.
opticalmace
Member
On hard mode, I actually think a couple of the late-game arenas are much harder than any of the bosses. There's one with a bunch of skeletons that are downright mean, and there's another with a whole bunch of enemies, including those priest things that generate the electric white wall things, plus a few other enemy types.
The bosses aren't too bad once you get their moves/patterns down, but the arena ones can be kind of all over the place. Sometimes they glitch out too, which makes them even more unpredictable.
Still my GOTY though, and I got the plat.
The bosses aren't too bad once you get their moves/patterns down, but the arena ones can be kind of all over the place. Sometimes they glitch out too, which makes them even more unpredictable.
Still my GOTY though, and I got the plat.
Yeah, the latest hard mode place I stopped was after getting through a few more late game arenas, then getting to one that has four priests that generate the lighting bolts. I'm like, I'll try this more another day. =P I still have the low health too from not getting all the chests on hard. However, I'm not sure how much health truly helps on arenas like that, since it almost seems like the main strategy is to kill things as quickly as humanly possible...otherwise there's almost too much crap flying about to dodge.
I finished the hard mode playthrough tonight. The final boss fight is indeed not that "difficult" per se, just a lot of not-screwing-up since I was doing it for the melee only achievement, and if you get hit 3 times you die. When I finally did beat it melee-mode, it was with a 200+ hit combo and full health.
I also got some of the suit achievements. I need to look up the rest of the chicken locations (I think I got that achievement, but not the one for talking to them while
), and I guess do another normal playthrough since I sure don't want to be on hard mode for the challenge
stuff, lol.
I also got some of the suit achievements. I need to look up the rest of the chicken locations (I think I got that achievement, but not the one for talking to them while
wearing the chicken suit
infierno
eot
Banned
I ended up enjoying this game a fair amount, but having seen it being referred to as a metroidvania and Super Metroid being all over this game (the statues, shinespark etc.) I was perhaps unfairly critical of it. It invites those unfavourable comparisons. Taken on its own though it's pretty good. The combat is fun, but the encounter design is all over the place difficulty wise. I never had to retry a fight (other than the bosses) more than once or twice, but there were still some that came out of nowhere and felt way harder than anything else. Every time I walked into an arena room it was like rolling the dice on whether or not you'd get a fun encounter.
Personally I thought it was a little bloated, mechanically. There's like five different types of shields in addition to the dimension swapping. Just piling on thing after thing like that isn't an interesting way to create challenge. The same goes for the platforming, it was a bit hit or miss. By the end of the game I think your moveset allows for some interesting traversal, but the amount of stuff they had to add to get there makes the whole thing feel convoluted. Maybe I just place too much emphasis on elegant design, but I prefer fewer mechanics / inputs with more subtlety than a ton of them that overlap, but forcibly create complexity. I saw some people compare it to Super Meat Boy, but in SMB I never die because I fucked up the finger gymnastics of trying to let go of the wall, jump, swap dimension, airdash and then uppercut.
It's still the most fun I've had with a game in a few months though and the music is pretty great. I only wish the story was less intrusive, I felt like the characters wouldn't shut up and I couldn't mash through that shit fast enough.
Personally I thought it was a little bloated, mechanically. There's like five different types of shields in addition to the dimension swapping. Just piling on thing after thing like that isn't an interesting way to create challenge. The same goes for the platforming, it was a bit hit or miss. By the end of the game I think your moveset allows for some interesting traversal, but the amount of stuff they had to add to get there makes the whole thing feel convoluted. Maybe I just place too much emphasis on elegant design, but I prefer fewer mechanics / inputs with more subtlety than a ton of them that overlap, but forcibly create complexity. I saw some people compare it to Super Meat Boy, but in SMB I never die because I fucked up the finger gymnastics of trying to let go of the wall, jump, swap dimension, airdash and then uppercut.
It's still the most fun I've had with a game in a few months though and the music is pretty great. I only wish the story was less intrusive, I felt like the characters wouldn't shut up and I couldn't mash through that shit fast enough.
This happened to me. I'm positive they made me collect one of the chests twice in the Temple of War, then for the Tule Tree and Sierra Moreno I had to collect a percentage over 100, so that was annoying.
Thank goodness for the infinite chicken flight though, made it so much quicker for my first plat in 3 months woop.
I got it with PS+ in November. I didn't feel like playing it (not my type of game), but yesterday I gave it a try. It's really cool. I've got 99% in about 7 hours play time, and I'm right before the final boss. Need to get that one missing collectible first.
The platforming challenge in Sierra Morena.. when I finally beat it, I arrived at the gate to the orb and the exit door next to it. I usually always explore levels and do optional stuff before advancing a game, so I instinctively went through the exit door without thinking, desperately hoping for the possibility to go back when I realized my mistake half a second later.
Nope. Had to do it again. Didn't take long, fortunately.
The other challenge in Tule Tree was fun as well.
The platforming challenge in Sierra Morena.. when I finally beat it, I arrived at the gate to the orb and the exit door next to it. I usually always explore levels and do optional stuff before advancing a game, so I instinctively went through the exit door without thinking, desperately hoping for the possibility to go back when I realized my mistake half a second later.
Nope. Had to do it again. Didn't take long, fortunately.
The other challenge in Tule Tree was fun as well.
"You're halfway through!", ha.
charlequin
Banned
I know that I just, like, fundamentally am not all that good at twitchy action games, but I don't get how Javier is a "fair" boss. Most of what the game has been teaching me so far is to roll-dodge against attacks to stay safe, watch for enemies to telegraph their moves, and lock enemies into long combos to deal damage safely, but I feel like this guy just wants to punish me with stuff he can do without warning or attacks that knock me out of the roll.
Are you playing on normal or hard? If hard, yes, he's hard. Some strategy either way:
If normal, he may still be difficult, but if I recall correctly the only attacks you can't roll through or air-dodge are the giant pillar into the sky, and the dash. You may still be able to side dash to escape the pillar, though you will need fast reaction time. Worst case, after a few attempts you should get an attempt where he does not do the sky pillar very often. For the dash, you can jump over it and he telegraphs it by going red and crouching first.
I suspect especially on normal there should be a noticeable rhythm to his attacks, so you can get used to putting yourself in a safe spot with a little distance, before he uses each move.
I suspect especially on normal there should be a noticeable rhythm to his attacks, so you can get used to putting yourself in a safe spot with a little distance, before he uses each move.
I used this aggressive approach to roll through his attacks and beat him (hard difficulty), but it took a long time, and you may want to look around youtube in case there's a better/easier strategy, and you don't like mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5FcgOQ8-hM
charlequin
Banned
Normal. Like I said, I'm not great at twitchy games, but I can usually muddle through most hard bosses with practice plus strategy.
I keep getting slapped with the club-stomp move, which I believe is because the roll ends too fast or in the wrong spot and I get hit with the remaining damage field, but to me that seems like an unreasonably tight timing window for a normal-mode boss. :/
I've had a few tries where I get in a good attack early on and leverage it into a couple strong combo/dodge/combo/dodge/combo runs, get him down to like 40%, but then he either swaps worlds while I'm mid-animation on a special attack (and so I get hosed) or just starts instantly regenerating the shield. I just keep hoping he'll put up a red or blue shield instead of a yellow one so I can actually hit him from some reasonable range.
EDIT: John Walker really gets me: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/10/15/wot-i-think-guacamelee/
It's not easy if you are not fond of twitch reaction games. I am bad at them myself, and even to make that video I posted, it took me practicing most of one night to get the timing into muscle memory. I can understand if it's too frustrating and you'd rather not continue, no offense meant. Definitely take a day or so away from it before trying again, since that can help.
If you do keep trying though, my suggestion would be to focus on the rhythm of how long it can take between him being on the ground, and him using an attack. That might help prevent you from being surprised by something like world swapping mid-animation. Also bear in mind that some of your moves may be cancellable into rolls, in particular headbutt.
If you want to try a potentially safer strategy, focus on doing nothing but jumping out of the way until he uses a slow animation like the crouch-into-jump that you can roll through (or maybe jump over). Then get in range with roll or dash, and do a headbutt. Do nothing but headbutts for boss damage if you need to. It should do a lot of damage on normal and send him far away from you so you don't get counterattacked.
Here's a video of someone getting hit several times on normal, but still getting lots of headbutts to win, if it helps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr11dHUwVkk
Oddly enough I just apparently found a gamebreaking glitch I hadn't fully seen before. The very first training fight with the monk, an enemy can spawn in the opposite world.
*edit* I'm super dumb. I forgot the enemy spawns in the opposite world purely to teach you to roll, and I wasn't rolling at the right time.
*edit* I'm super dumb. I forgot the enemy spawns in the opposite world purely to teach you to roll, and I wasn't rolling at the right time.
charlequin
Banned
Yeah, I'm gonna watch the video, then switch back to the Bravely Default video and go to bed, lol. I'm stubborn enough to make it through eventually but I don't think it's gonna be tonight.
Javier claims another LOL.
Granted, you may very well get past him, unlike myself, but he's definitely become a not so good highlight for many. It did seem unreasonable from what I can recall. Suddenly you have this dude who can cancel animations to counter you [which is frankly what leaves me scratching my head when people say "look at his pattern."]... and he can counter pretty much anything you got. And dat splash damage, ugh!
Granted, you may very well get past him, unlike myself, but he's definitely become a not so good highlight for many. It did seem unreasonable from what I can recall. Suddenly you have this dude who can cancel animations to counter you [which is frankly what leaves me scratching my head when people say "look at his pattern."]... and he can counter pretty much anything you got. And dat splash damage, ugh!
At the risk of sounding like a jerk, I ran through normal again as quickly as I could tonight, which is not super quick, about 1:48 to get to Javier. I died a couple of times to a boss and some enemies, but beat Javier on the first time, getting hit only maybe twice.
I just tried to get brief combos in when it was safe, and stay away until he did an animation in other situations. I rolled through the splashes, so learning to time that roll is probably one of the keys you can use to win the fight. Headbutts are good. Running out of stamina was a problem, and you just have to dodge until it recharges.
I just tried to get brief combos in when it was safe, and stay away until he did an animation in other situations. I rolled through the splashes, so learning to time that roll is probably one of the keys you can use to win the fight. Headbutts are good. Running out of stamina was a problem, and you just have to dodge until it recharges.
opticalmace
Member
I beat him by waiting for him to do that spin-club attack move. Right after he lands and swings the club he's vulnerable, so punish him with a pretty long combo. The headbutt can also knock him around, so you can continue the combo if you time it right IIRC. Just play patient and punish his spin-club attacks. At least, that is what worked for me on hard.
edit: Jump in just as he's finishing his club move, so that you land just after he swings. He's vulnerable at that time.
I'd always usually turtle, wait for an opening, normal uppercut him, and then juggle him as long as I could (breaking his shield along the way). He eventually just falls out (even though it wouldn't on a regular enemy), at which point I run away again.
In a lot of the vids on facing him that I've seen, the player always focusing on breaking the shield on the first hit. You don't have to do that. Hit him quick, start juggling, then break the shield. You miss out on damage, but you put yourself in a safer position.
In a lot of the vids on facing him that I've seen, the player always focusing on breaking the shield on the first hit. You don't have to do that. Hit him quick, start juggling, then break the shield. You miss out on damage, but you put yourself in a safer position.
I will maintain that Javier is a difficult but fair boss. Hard mode Flame Face on the other hand...
charlequin
Banned
This is the advice I needed to get past this jerk. I started dodging everything else, then rolling through the club stomps and immediately doing a headbutt, regardless of what shield he had up. That'd send him into the air, where I could use the blue/red attacks to clear his shield, then headbutt until I ran out of juice. I had a couple runs that were one hit short of victory within my first couple tries, then cleared him out just a bit after.
I still think he's a dumb design since you have to do something so weird relative to the rest of the game to beat him, but at least I'm past now. Thanks everybody!
Also: super weird that this game doesn't have a boss rush mode.
http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2014/01/14/guacamelee-bundle-fantstico-out-next-week/
A little disappointing that there's nothing on offer if you've already picked up the game, but a great deal for anyone still on the fence.
A little disappointing that there's nothing on offer if you've already picked up the game, but a great deal for anyone still on the fence.
Playing this on the Vita right now and it is driving me insane. I consider myself to be quite a skillful player but something is not right with this. In the Tree level I cannot wall jump on the later sections, because he is always sliding down when I use the Dimension Shift. I really tried everything to be sure that I'm not doing something wrong. I looked up YT vids and they always jump really smoothly. Maybe anyone with a tip? I play without patches, so maybe it got patched out later on?
The timing on some of those is INCREDIBLY tight, if you shift too early/late you're not going to hit the tree to make the jump. That part of the tree was the hardest part of the game for me.