A lot of the feedback I read from high level Mesmers online seems to indicate that they have a hard time tagging mobs for loot/exp in events due to poor AOE. So for example, farming for legendary materials on a Mesmer takes far more time than other classes due to the inability to get as much loot from the zerg-style farming that occurs at 80.
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Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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A lot of the feedback I read from high level Mesmers online seems to indicate that they have a hard time tagging mobs for loot/exp in events due to poor AOE. So for example, farming for legendary materials on a Mesmer takes far more time than other classes due to the inability to get as much loot from the zerg-style farming that occurs at 80.
Oh man. I'm sorry to pile on after some lengthy responses to your previous posts, but this seems to be just further clouding your argument about what the problem was.
Not only do I not see the problem, you seem to be introducing a problem where none exists.
People are always going to find ways to get the best rewards with the least effort, and that sucks. But the crucial point is that it should never impact the enjoyment of others, and in this case it doesn't. You understand that 15 minute guy didn't take the precursors from entire event guy, right? It's random. It wouldn't have been any more or less fair if the event guy (or someone like me who did almost the entire chain twice [for fun btw, I didn't think I would get anything the second time *gasp*]) got the precursors.
Zyrusticae, when you first voiced that you were pissed, with a kind of "REALLY??" attitude, you had a reasonable point (two, actually) that I just happened to disagree with:
One, that the event rewards were way better than previous ones and people didn't know that, so many missed out. Two, that some people made out better than others at the end of the event. I understand both these criticisms though I just don't personally see them as major issues.
Your most recent posts really muddy the discussion, however. You're almost arguing against the nature of random numbers in general, unless I'm seriously misreading.
Ohhh my bad. Yeah, mesmers kind of suck at tagging. I don't have trouble using greatsword with the extra bounce, really, but I understand how other loadouts might.
Zerging isn't the only way to profit, anyway
edit: @Above, gotcha, didn't know this was about legendary farming, just my bad on that one. Definitely a legit complaint and hopefully one that will be addressed!
I feel ya man. I ran FoW almost exclusively as an assassin main tank, and only got a voltaic spear once. I really wanted the obisidian blade, and was probably in about 10 groups of the 100's of times I ran it where people actually got it. I feel like here there is a chance for good stuff to drop, it's just that I've never gotten an exotic to, all of mine have come from chests. Bitching aside, I am finding the tp and the multitude of other stuff to do quite exciting. I do feel limited by the magic find though, as I feel as if I'm not wearing while doing exploring out in the world, my drops will suffer. My best gear is reserved for usually unknown areas to me in dungeons. I guess it's a trade off, as I probably shouldn't be as motivated by magic find, but I have definitely seen a difference in drops in fractals and orr runs. Oh well, still love playing a game that I don't have a subscription fee to.
flyinpiranha
Member
This is where our disconnect is.
It's a gamble. ANY game like this is a gamble. My buddy had 5 epic guns in Borderlands 2 by the time he was my level and I have gotten shit.
I have to ask, is this your first MMO? This type of mechanic is something most people familiar with loot games understand: You won't always get the loot that others get nor are you promised it.
Are you pissed also that not everybody always wins at Video Poker? Casino's? You know that a % to receive something is exactly that, right? It's a gamble.
If you don't understand the basics of percentage-based loot drops in every MMO ever made, then you're right. There isn't a point in further discussion. You're asking this game to become Final Fantasy with a lobby where everybody ends up in the same exact area with the same exact weapon with the same exact look at the same exact time.
That's not what MMO's are about.
It's not his first MMO, he's at least played WoW and EVE Online. I'm very confused too, though. See above as to how different his original complaints were vs. the anti-RNG nature of the most recent ones.
I did get a (Q11 so not super duper) Voltaic Spear from the Zaishen chest. That immediately put me over the top for my Obby Armor....
....which I then salvaged to sell the ectos to pay for Dragon Festival tickets to get my last HOM point...
....which ended up being kinda underwhelming reward in GW2 lol.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
The argument will change to something along the lines of, "I'm not anti-RNG, I just think everyone should have been given precursors" or "Nobody should have gotten precursors because it's unfair".
Read my PM, last few lines, person A or B. lol
flyinpiranha
Member
I understand the not knowing the drops were going to be great, that sucks. I also understand people irritated at the one time event. What I don't understand is the misunderstanding about how one person gets something and another doesn't.
And he's played WoW? What the fuck is even the issue then? I'm baffled as that game had the WORST random drop shit up until they implemented tokens. We'd have to farm boss after boss to gear up multiple tanks to get to the next encounter sometimes because loot drops sucked, we routinely DE'd tons of stuff that wasn't needed in 40 man raids while many players went months and months without seeing a single item they could use.
Unless it was expected everybody wears the same shit in GW2 and is auto-looted to you, I honestly don't understand the argument. I wonder if it would be different if he'd gotten a Dusk "oh, better luck next time guys!".
Just seems like greedy loot drop anger, nothing more. I understand disappointment, but saying that this is a fundamental problem that needs to be addressed is like saying CoD and Halo need to figure out how to make it so both sides win in multiplayer. There will always be winners and losers, it's called a game.
Now, that said. I can see his irritation when it comes to the game in general because the loot grind and such was supposed to be non-existent. I know I wasn't focusing much on gear until I realized how important it was/is. In that respect I can understand his issue but with pre-cursers specifically there is nothing about them that really lends to a uneven battlefield against somebody else who has just farmed regularly to get their decent setup going.
I do wish there wasn't such a gear grind, but it is what it is.
Every match of this hypothetical sports team would be different. Some will be against an old rival and will be extra exciting or momentous. If it was a band or performance group, what if they were dedicated to having something different each time?
And finally, this may be a one time event, but do you know there won't be more one time events? More chances for great loot drops like this? Wintersday is around the corner, and there are already rumors of another big event going down in January. This may have been a one time event, but this won't be the only one time event, hence the season pass analogy. Except in this case it's a lifetime pass.
I'll respond to this one too. Part of the reason why they're putting precursors out like this is so that the can keep their arrival as rare drops, while increasing the quality of them nd therefore decreasing their trading post cost. They have to start somewhere, and this entire patch from the lost shores event, to the fractals, to the better dungeon and world boss drops, reflect this. This is how they're trying to close the gap. I can still understand you disliking that RNG is the main method, but this was the only way to keep the same system and drive prices down; increase their drop rate or add the, to big events to make the events more memorable.
And again, there will be more events.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
PS - I know we sound like a bunch of raging fanboys in the way that we "defend" ANet, but we're not.
MMOs can be about pretty much anything and RNG heavy loot distribution is for better or worse a relic of the past as you noticed yourself with your WoW example.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
It really, truly is. We've got no problems telling ANet what they need to work on in. But it definitely comes off the wrong way in this thread.
Seriously
...although wait, you're the first person in the guild to get a Legendary so shut up
edit: Did you get to do it with the second guild group overflow, btw? It went way faster and there was no culling (I actually had zero lag during either, on my end). I actually thought it was a blast and can totally understand how in their testing it seemed like a really solid, unique event that got totally distorted by the scaling and culling.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Seriously
...although wait, you're the first person in the guild to get a Legendary so shut up
And such a Brony Legendary at that.
I'm jelly - that thing is gorgeous.
Seriously
...although wait, you're the first person in the guild to get a Legendary so shut up
edit: Did you get to do it with the second guild group overflow, btw? It went way faster and there was no culling (I actually had zero lag during either, on my end). I actually thought it was a blast and can totally understand how in their testing it seemed like a really solid, unique event that got totally distorted by the scaling and culling.
Yeah I did, it was a bit better. Had to try out the new bow
flyinpiranha
Member
True, but RNG will always have to be part of the MMO style (IMO). It's what keeps people coming back. Poorly implemented RNG is what I was speaking of. With the GW2 example, it's not bad at all, it just takes time and eventually you can pretty much get anything you want unlike other games where RNG is the only factor to receiving what you need.
GW2 is more about time commitment than it is about your dependency on RNG. If you want a legendary, you can get it. Every single person has the capability to get it whether that be time invested to earn gold to buy the precursor or a random drop. With other RNG heavy based games such as WoW, my Askhandi and later the Axe of C'thun could be things that I never saw after years of play.
I'll say this again. My issue with this weekend isn't the one time event (well it is to an extent but that's a different discussion) or the RNG aspect. It's the fact that Anet made a conscious decision to up the loot quality by absurd amounts (compared to any previous content) knowing full well that a massive section of the player base would inevitably miss out. Why was this necessary? Why couldn't they have introduced this type of loot at the end of another event that everyone could do at some stage? Not everything can always be fair but in this instance I think fairness could have easily been achieved to better extent than what it was. I was under the impression that the novelty of one time events was actually doing them and seeing how they affected the world - not the chance to get far superior loot. No matter how you look at it this was a poor decision because anyone with a brain at Anet would have known this would piss off a large portion of their customers. You can say it's entitlement or whatever it's just a fact that now a lot of people are annoyed for no good reason.
If the finale of one time events is on at the same time every time with the same level of loot then most Oceania/Asian players are going to lose interest pretty quick I assume.
On a happier note I FINALLY got to level 3 on Fractals. Nicoga what level are you now? 15 or something stupid like that?
If the finale of one time events is on at the same time every time with the same level of loot then most Oceania/Asian players are going to lose interest pretty quick I assume.
On a happier note I FINALLY got to level 3 on Fractals. Nicoga what level are you now? 15 or something stupid like that?
a 20 slot bag and a chance for a ton of shit.
It's not the RNG. It's the effort put into the rng.
You know how normal people avert their eyes and quickly scroll past when they see a pony gif? Imagine that power a hundred times over condensed in beams of kindness and colors.
Being serious I know nothing about the show or the fanbase.
You have a reasonable complaint (one of Zyrusticae's two original complaints) that I just disagree with.
My answers would be:
Wasn't at all necessary. It was kind of awesome though.
Better for some than for others, of course, but I'm one of the "just awesome" ones.I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but this was very consciously and very directly intended to not be something everyone would get- only the people who showed up and completed the event. That's not to say they won't make "free exotics for all" events later on, in fact there was a blog post that seemed to almost indicate they would for sure.
I'd say they absolutely knew it would piss some people off (as all their decisions do) and in this case it was judged as warranted to increase supply of precursors and give those who did participate a really good reward.
And that's the thing. You don't know what you'll get. You never should. I never got any exotics from chests in the Labyrinth during Halloween. Not a single one. It's just the luck of the draw. I got one from my first MK chest and then never again. The thing is that people shouldn't be doing the events for the promise of loot, they should be doing them cause they want to and pleasantly surprised if they get something good. That's exactly what happened here; you're just the other end of the pendulum swing right now, and I can totally understand the rage.
I think he was actually asking what Zyrusticae got. Nicoga got a precursor I'm pretty sure.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I hit 11 last night. Got an Ascended ring with power/precision/crit damage from the Jade Maw daily chest. Agony is an awesome mechanic, and I'm REALLY excited to see how it plays out as the difficulty increases. I want more guildies up to that level with me, Kir, and Khold (I think Khold is 9 or 10 now)!
now I don't like you anymore
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I did - the Frost Axe thingy.
And I do think "effort" was put into the RNG, but I think people are salty as fuck because they didn't get a precursor when other people did.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I seriously couldn't believe I rolled those stats, haha. Of our group, I was the only one to get a ring (although Kir already got his earlier from the 10 daily, so he wasn't even eligible).
I'm down to pull you to 10+. I learned a few tricks last night to speed runs up, too. Particularly on Jade Maw. But man, Agony. <3
You have a reasonable complaint (one of Zyrusticae's two original complaints) that I just disagree with.
My answers would be:
Wasn't at all necessary. It was kind of awesome though.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but this was very consciously and very directly intended to not be something everyone would get- only the people who showed up and completed the event. That's not to say they won't make "free exotics for all" events later on, in fact there was a blog post that seemed to almost indicate they would for sure.
I'd say they absolutely knew it would piss some people off (as all their decisions do) and in this case it was judged as warranted to increase supply of precursors and give those who did participate a really good reward.
And that's the thing. You don't know what you'll get. You never should. I never got any exotics from chests in the Labyrinth during Halloween. Not a single one. It's just the luck of the draw. I got one from my first MK chest and then never again. The thing is that people shouldn't be doing the events for the promise of loot, they should be doing them cause they want to and pleasantly surprised if they get something good. That's exactly what happened here; you're just the other end of the pendulum swing right now, and I can totally understand the rage.
I think he was actually asking what Zyrusticae got. Nicoga got a precursor I'm pretty sure.
The thing is I'm not even raging since I'm not really a hardcore player in terms of the loot, I just don't agree with how this whole situation was handled. Even if I got a precursor I'd be typing the same thing. The luck of the draw argument doesn't count for people in time zones that couldn't actually feasibly participate. There's not luck involved when you flat out can't join and I suspect this could be the case for future one time events as well. Anet hasn't really shown they care about their customer base outside of the US.
Increasing the supply of precursors is a good initiative and should be applauded but the way Anet did it was extremely flawed. I'm sure there are many other ways to increase the precursor acquisition. That said I hope this is just the beginning of what they are doing to make them more feasible to acquire. Increasing their chance to drop in the MF is a start.
You left me alone in the woods man.
it truly is. i have been blasting the culling for months now. sometimes i feel alone in guild chat that no one else seems bothered by it. but then again, i'm not sure how many of those people wvw or want to. until it's fixed im staying out of wvw because it breaks the game.
now it's affecting in pve with instant deaths. that's how it feels in wvw. you just die, you don't know why.
more people need to be outspoken about the culling. i know they're working on it, but ffs but in a band aid already. im getting bored of pve and with this event over with there's not much to do now.
Yeah the culling in WvW is horrible, totally almost makes it unplayable unless you are part of a zerg and I love WvW.
BTW how is WvW on the gaf server? My guildies seem to be dropping like flies and I may just migrate to stormbluff to join you guys. I like that on Borlis Pass right now, WvW is pretty even so it's always exciting. It's not too one sided with you guys is it?
Man. I really want to get up to those levels :/. In stuck at lv 4 :/.
I can't really disagree with a word of this. I have a lot of trouble envisioning how these things work out for people outside NA myself. In this case it actually was a bit more than "one-time" as it turned out but being more accomodating of other time zones is a completely valid complaint and hopefully one they'll take to heart.
I haven't seen or heard a single person who ISN'T bothered by it. I don't know why anyone would want to discuss it in guild chat, though, since it's just universally reviled as bad. Maybe that's the issue you're experiencing.
They did put in a band-aid for WvW in a recent build but it is NOT close to solved. I have a feeling a "temp skin" render is incoming.
No, the matches are always rather competitive. Right now, Sea of Sorrows has a decent lead on us, but we tend to make a lot of progress during the weekdays.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
No way! <3 I've run somewhere between 58-62 fractals so far, and I'm only level 11. As you can probably figure out, that's about half of my time spent helping folks raise their difficulty.
You just let me know!E: To anyone! My main is Krystal Alysia Jr - feel free to whisper me in game whenever. If I'm not busy, I'll be glad to help you out. My only stipulation is that you be willing to learn and listen to the strats that I've worked out with the folks who've run with me to this point. Also, PLEASE have Mumble. Even if you can't talk, being able to listen is important.
You're still on level 3 too? MANNNNNNN.
Yeah the point is Nicoga you held everyone's hand up to level 10 and left Adriaa at level 2.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Not on purpose, I promise!
I have run level 1 seven times.
Awesome. I might stay on my server for a while longer since it's bit easier to farm certain things on a lower populated server, but I'll prob make the switch later.
So when are you getting on? I'm on now farming powerful blood out of boredom.
I have this shitty thing called a "jov" or "jolb" or something, which will keep me occupied for a while, then I'll need a while to tend to the various animals in my care this week since my whole family is on vacation. Probably be on around 7 EST.
Hey, I didn't get to come back online last night (one of my sister's dogs ate his own body weight in halloween candy and needed attention), so I never got to put together my armor set.
Somebody do me a favor?
Preview these two codes (you can whisper them to yourself) on an Asura preferably, and post a pic in here:
[&AgHhFAAA]
[&AgGTAgAA]
Wanna see how Seda's shoulders would look with the Whispers coat. Thank you!!!
Somebody do me a favor?
Preview these two codes (you can whisper them to yourself) on an Asura preferably, and post a pic in here:
[&AgHhFAAA]
[&AgGTAgAA]
Wanna see how Seda's shoulders would look with the Whispers coat. Thank you!!!
7? Lets change that tonite, good sir! We'll get you beyond lv3 easily.
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