-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
- Status
human onion
Banned
Not sure if this should be posted here, but I'm thinking about getting this game. I was skeptical at launch from some of the impressions, but I'm still interested. Do the impressions at launch apply now?
I'm not sure what you mean. The launch impressions were positive. What are your concerns?
Some yes, some no. I'd say the vast majority of the positive impressions still apply with one potential exception (which I don't particularly think is anywhere near as big as deal as it's made out to be). Some of the negative impressions (especially complaints about how difficult and time-consuming the grind for dungeon gear and karma [a currency used to buy high level gear and other stuff] were perceived to be) definitely no longer apply. Some absolutely still do, though. I wish there was a free trial going on so you could check it out for yourself...
human onion
Banned
Basically, I've heard that the combat is spammy and boring and that once you're 80, there's little to do (Although from what I've seen in this thread, content is added regularly, so it's not a problem).
Well, combat is not spammy. There's a lot of depth to the combat and while I have a comfortable process to how I play now, you can always switch it up by changing your weapons and traits. There's a lot of content in the game and the world is huge. There's no raiding if that's your concept of endgame. There's dungeons, expert mode dungeons, and Fractals. There's also the open world stuff like the events, big bosses, dragons, jumping puzzles and mini dungeons. There's monthly content updates. Fractals and a new zone have been added so far. There's also the spvp and WvWvW.
Launch issues were bugged content at end level and in dungeons. A lot of that has been cleaned up. I still run into an event that's haywire once in awhile. The prolonged issue is culling. You only run into culling in large DEs and WvWvW, but it is still one of the bigger issues in the game.
human onion
Banned
That's good to know, but what about the combat? Is it varied and interesting, does it require teamwork? I've heard claims of button mashing and repetition.
Edit: Ahh, beaten above. Thanks for the replies, I'll definitely get the game, probably start as an Asura Engineer.
Hawkian and others have addressed the end-game concerns, but I would add that ArenaNet has stated on multiple occasions that they consider Guild Wars 2 to be a service, and they aim to have the best post-launch support of any MMO, period. Mighty strong words for an MMO developer, some of us were really surprised they spelled it out like that before launch.
So far, they seem to be sticking to it; we've had a huge Halloween update, are in the midst of an even-larger Christmas event, and November added a new zone, a new dungeon (actually, a new style of dungeon to boot) and lots of updates and changes, almost all for the better (I say almost because some people may not agree that certain class changes were needed). With the exception of September (when the game was really only a week old) they've added large chunks of content every month.
ArenaNet has also stated that January and February will be "an expansion's worth of content for free", with some WvW changes slated for the February patch, and I seem to recall (but can't quite find at the moment) some mention of a major Dungeon overhaul in there too. No clue what exactly will be included but a lot of us think they will be adding lots of new zones and continuing the personal story. Regardless, good things ahead.
Whew. That was longer than I intended it to be.
To address your concerns about combat being 'spammy', that was an early complaint that I think we can safely dismiss. Other MMOs tend to be about memorizing optimal rotations, so there's almost always a button that needs to be pressed. Guild Wars 2 is more focused on giving you a variety of tools, with success or failure being based on your ability to use them effectively. Anyone who runs into combat and starts pressing all of their buttons will quickly find that the tools they need are on cooldown just when they need them most.
This is complimented by the need to dodge, swap weapon sets (all but two classes can switch between two sets, the others are special cases), revive downed players, interact with the environment (though less to the extent we were hoping pre-launch) and combine abilities to perform combos. Essentially, it was labeled 'spammy' only because the game gives you other things to do than mash 1, 2, 4, 1, 2, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4 for hours at a time. When you're not hitting buttons as needed by the moment-to-moment situation, you're usually auto-attacking while you watch all of that other stuff for changes, warnings and opportunities.
human onion
Banned
This is exactly what I was hoping for, thanks. I never had much experience with other MMO's, and this game's combat always stuck out to me.
Awesome, happy to help.
Whisper any of the GAFGuild officers (Ferny, Hawkian The Blade, Gojira, Ashodin Venteal, Professor Retro, Nephenee Reginleif or Wallach) for an invite, and the guild can answer any other questions you might have.
You can be in the guild regardless of which server you are on (we are on Stormbluff Isle, though) and you can be in multiple guilds at once (so if you have friends who have their own guild, you can switch between them at will).
Disheveled_Zen
Member
I really want to put together a quiver for my ranger, but man those things are expensive if you need to buy the mats. I guess I could do the bone one just for looks, but really wanted the powerful blood one, not about to spend 40g on it though.
I would like to also add that we prefer you to be on Stormbluff Isle if only to partake in guild events and such. At the moment, it's not necessary to be on Stormbluff, just recommended.
Sounds like some people didn't get their cogs/glue/wads, or maybe got less of it.
Few things I an wondering about:
1. I am in the guild but on a different server for now (Ganadra), can I access Guild armour? The vendor seemed to have none for me when I tried but that might have been as I am too low level?
2. If I search for back slot stuff on the trading post where is it listed? I couldn't find it in the filters at all...
3. What can be equipped there (I am a Ranger), seems like backpacks and quivers, is it class specific?
1. I am in the guild but on a different server for now (Ganadra), can I access Guild armour? The vendor seemed to have none for me when I tried but that might have been as I am too low level?
2. If I search for back slot stuff on the trading post where is it listed? I couldn't find it in the filters at all...
3. What can be equipped there (I am a Ranger), seems like backpacks and quivers, is it class specific?
Ugh, I've missed every day except the first few hours of the Grove event. Going to have to do some catch up.
Oh, quick Sigil FAQ:
1. SIGILS HAVE INTERNAL COOLDOWNS BECAUSE THEY USED TO BE WAY OVERPOWERED BUT STILL DAMN THOSE COOLDOWNS.
2. Ahem. There are two major types of sigils to consider when equipping your character. Sigils with an internal cooldown, and sigils without. If a sigil has an internal cooldown, it puts all other sigils with internal cooldowns on cooldown as well. Check here for all the internal cooldowns: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil
And that ends the quick FAQ. There are a number of other things to consider when picking sigils, so don't forget to check the notes at the bottom of the wiki page here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil
General rule: Only have one sigil with an internal cooldown. Whether it's on-crit, on-weapon-swap, or on-hit (in the special case of Sigil of Water). On a separate note, when it comes to the sigils that stack on-kills, you can only have one of those stacking at any one time. If you use two of the same one, then the stacking effect will happen twice as fast.
Oh, and sigils DO NOT have any effect on your utility or elite skills. That's the entire reason why sigils never worked for Engineer kits in the first place. The game had them coded as utility skills. They had to go into the code, make an exception just for the Engineer kits, then thoroughly test those kits to make sure nothing else broke. After that, they then needed to test how strong the Engineer got with sigils, and considering Sigil of Fire and just how strong the Grenade kit was with AoE, I am not at all surprised it got nerfed. If you're not using it for the conditions, then continue to use it in a power+precision build with Sigil of Fire.
Edit: Later I need to celebrate Snowball fights.
Oh, quick Sigil FAQ:
1. SIGILS HAVE INTERNAL COOLDOWNS BECAUSE THEY USED TO BE WAY OVERPOWERED BUT STILL DAMN THOSE COOLDOWNS.
2. Ahem. There are two major types of sigils to consider when equipping your character. Sigils with an internal cooldown, and sigils without. If a sigil has an internal cooldown, it puts all other sigils with internal cooldowns on cooldown as well. Check here for all the internal cooldowns: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil
Example: You have Sigil of Fire and Sigil of Rage. Sigil of Fire procs, you do massive AoE fire damage, and it's a crit. You're happy. The cooldown for it is 5 seconds, so for 5 seconds any other sigils that have a cooldown won't activate. Once those 5 seconds are up, both sigils have a chance to proc again, and this time it's Sigil of Rage. Sigil of Rage has a cooldown for 45 seconds. For 45 seconds all your cooldown sigils are worthless.
And that ends the quick FAQ. There are a number of other things to consider when picking sigils, so don't forget to check the notes at the bottom of the wiki page here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil
General rule: Only have one sigil with an internal cooldown. Whether it's on-crit, on-weapon-swap, or on-hit (in the special case of Sigil of Water). On a separate note, when it comes to the sigils that stack on-kills, you can only have one of those stacking at any one time. If you use two of the same one, then the stacking effect will happen twice as fast.
Oh, and sigils DO NOT have any effect on your utility or elite skills. That's the entire reason why sigils never worked for Engineer kits in the first place. The game had them coded as utility skills. They had to go into the code, make an exception just for the Engineer kits, then thoroughly test those kits to make sure nothing else broke. After that, they then needed to test how strong the Engineer got with sigils, and considering Sigil of Fire and just how strong the Grenade kit was with AoE, I am not at all surprised it got nerfed. If you're not using it for the conditions, then continue to use it in a power+precision build with Sigil of Fire.
I read about it on reddit a little while ago. Basically, Dungeon Diminishing Returns activate more or less when you finish two dungeons in a row within an hour. If someone did a regular dungeon, took 45 minutes, then did the Tixx dungeon and took 10 minutes, Diminishing Returns would have activated. This is bad, because you need to be able to do each of the 5 Tixx dungeons and get max reward to have enough materials to make two of the special Wintersday mini-pets without any help.
Edit: Later I need to celebrate Snowball fights.
When I was in GAF-guild (before the EU wing was set up) I couldn't buy guild armour either, and if I talked to a guild registrar or guild promoter they said I wasn't in a guild, so I believe it's a different server thing. On that note, if you get any items that give your guild influence (you'll get at least one from your personal story) they go towards Gandara influence, not Stormbluff Isle and so are more-or-less wasted - keep them until you get into SBI.
Well that sucks, if they are going to allow being in a different servers guild they could at least make it work.
So is there a guild I could join on Gandara just to get the backpack from the vendor, then I can just switch back to representing GAF?
If you're just after a backpiece, you'll get one from your personal story for free at Lv33 and another at Lv80. The guild backpacks start at a level requirement of 35 and cost 1 Gold.
Get me on Steam later or just let me know your character name here and I'll send you a EU-GAF invite so you can check them out, I've no idea if buying one and changing guilds changes the symbol on the backpack (that would be a jammy workaround).
Dries
Member
Would also like to know this...
Kos Luftar
Member
For this event you can make a mini toy by putting 250 stuffing, 250 glue, 250 gears and 1frame of the toy (so far ventari and princess doll are available).
You can buy mini packs on gem store. Not sure how much they cost I never buy them because minis never interested me.
This is sort of subjective, but in my participation in the Wintersday stuff so far (basically the jumping puzzle, a little of the bell hero game and one of the dungeons), I really like the atmosphere and attitude that seems to be pretty widespread in-game. Almost everybody seems to be having a lot of fun and not taking things too seriously, and it makes me smile.
Haha. That's what I went for (although it ended in tragedy...). I don't recommend buying a single powerful blood outright. It's going to be expensive no matter what, but let me know what the max you'd be willing to spend would be (if not 40g) and I'll let you know if there's a realistic path toward getting it.
Noisy Ninj4
Member
I would suggest using Vicious fangs, actually. They're going down in price and the stats (power/vit/tough) are solid.
I got my Quiver of Quick Flight yesterday. Watch the value of Potent and Powerful Blood carefully. Potent dropped to a point in which you would make huge profit throwing them into the mystery forge, the only thing you would be spending was skill points in the worst possible outcome.
You need 50 potent bloods, 1 powerful blood, 5 crystalline dusts and 5 philosopher stones (half a skill point) to get 5~12 powerful bloods, but at the time potent blood was valued so low that getting 5 powerful bloods in return would've made no loss whatsoever in terms of gold.
http://i.imgur.com/0rbM0.jpg
You need 50 potent bloods, 1 powerful blood, 5 crystalline dusts and 5 philosopher stones (half a skill point) to get 5~12 powerful bloods, but at the time potent blood was valued so low that getting 5 powerful bloods in return would've made no loss whatsoever in terms of gold.
http://i.imgur.com/0rbM0.jpg
There's a holiday title 'Apprentice Toymaker' for getting 12 of the event achievements.
A dev post on the official forums said you'll have enough materials to make 2 mini pets if you did the event at each city.
You can also outright buy the mini from the BLTC. I noticed the Toy Ventari and Princess Doll mini in there yesterday for 500 gems each.
What about a christmas quaggan mini?(?????????)
I am gonna make Sights Be True when I have some downtime and extra gold so I can have a cool-lookin' quiver too when I'm using my shortbow.
*sigh* I'm such an idiot.
I am gonna make Sights Be True when I have some downtime and extra gold so I can have a cool-lookin' quiver too when I'm using my shortbow.
Dunno, it's like other games to me. You have a set rotation you adhere to, regardless of enemy type for most of the game. You have a few a dodges, but they're not that important. Proper positioning is more important, but that isn't unlike other MMO's either. There's less skill to manage which is nice I guess. GW2 isn't really a game you play for the combat mechanics. The game is gorgeous and there's an active community.
Ahaha. Ahahahahaaha. Depends on your class, I'm sure.
It's unlike lots of the ones that I've tried. The vast majority; but I have played far fewer than many people have, so I'll defer to your examples.
Whoa, maybe it's not a game you play for the combat, but it's definitely what keeps me going and especially willing to repeat content dozens of times. It has some of the most fun combat of any RPG I've played, personally. Full disclosure, I play with a gamepad
I played a Thief and Sorc. Tera online actually had a reliance on dodging. Here you can just tank most of it, outside specific situations. The fast majority of time you are still fighting normal mobs you really don't have to dodge them, if you have a good build/rotation going.
Well I mentioned Tera there, I'm sure other action MMO's do the whole position dodging thing as well. Feel free to articulate what is so different about the combat in GW2.
As I said 1 rotation works on almost everything you encounter in the field. Which isn't unlike other games. Not sure what you find special about this.
What does playing a gamepad have to do with this? It almost shows what you like about the game is pretty superficial, if you think that playing a gamepad makes a difference.
I find that most bosses melee really hard. If you don't dodge, you're dead. But then I play a ranger only marginally spec'd with vitality/toughness. I usually use melee pets to keep pressure off me.
This seems a little harsh...
That's exactly my point, how much of the game are you fighting bosses. In other MMO's actual bosses require different tactics and proper positioning as well. If other MMO's have the dodging mechanics as well, the Boss mobs tend to hit hard as well. Nothing new.
I'm harsh if someone laughs without having the decency to properly articulate what's wrong with what I said.
Look Guild Wars 2 is a good game, but combat is definitely not the differentiating factor.
As someone who played a lot of TERA it's strange to hear someone say they are very different games in the area of dodging as it's probably the area that always struck me the most similar between the two games. Both games strike me as penalizing you fairly similarly for missing a dodge; usually harsh penalties are reserved solely for positioning mistakes and not failed dodges. In both games you almost never need the tactic against "normal" targets; in TERA your typical on-level BAM would hit you fairly hard (maybe 30-40%) if you actually missed a dodge, which is what happens here on most silver and champion mobs. BAMs often had an attack that hit a lot harder than that which you were expected to dodge, which most champion mobs in this game also do. Dungeon bosses in both games were generally more interested in punishing positioning failures hard and not dodges as much.
Well if I'm trying to solo traverse some place like Cursed Shore or Southsun, I find that I often have to implement similar sorts of tactics and can't just tank and out dps everything. But I only have 1 class under my belt.
As for how much of the game am I fighting bosses...probably like half the time for me, ha.
Dunno in Tera the game actually gave you a decent pool of dodges/blocks. You could spec your character on 100% damage and rely on dodges to mitigate all damage. You can literately take no damage if you are good enough. In Guild Wars 2 you will always take damage regardless how your build is set up, you are always reliant on regeneration and healing.
I'm surprised... I play a thief, and I can't tank anything... at all. I can hold aggro well but it has nothing to do with taking hits, and I'm pretty squishy in all three of my builds. It's cool to know that's a viable option though, it just doesn't really interest me.
Dodging is incredibly important to my playstyle. Completely crucial. It does a lot more for me than just avoiding damage, and avoiding damage any way I can is essential to me in the first place.[
I mean, what others are on your list? I haven't played Tera but I hear the combat is fantastic. I would say Vindictus also did it well, but it sort of fails at being an MMO at all (much more along the lines of Monster Hunter).
Most of the MMOs (and plenty of action-RPGs.... this is where I look sideways at Diablo III) I've played put far less emphasis on dodging and positioning.
Also, the following features stand out hugely to me in making GW2 combat "different":
-Weapon swapping
-Skill-based/cross-profession combos
-Alternate skillsets- kits, summoned weapons, environmental weapons (things that temporarily replace your main weapon skills)
-Fully customizable rune/sigil sets (these affect all of my builds massively; to clarify "fully-customizable," you can obtain any weapon that looks and functions exactly the way you want with relative ease, and use any rune set on any armor)
-Combat-relevant class mechanics which are themselves unique (Shatter would be the clearest example, I just really don't know what it would compare to in other games)
Also, semi-tangential but I really am a fan of the underwater combat, and I usually loathe underwater gameplay.
Didn't deny that, when you get a solid skill rotation down you can definitely rely on it except for special cases.
Er... it makes it more fun for me... :-/
It's a differentiating factor. I've actually only seen one example posted so far of an MMO with better combat.
I apologize for that, it was glib. It struck me as funny because dodging is absolutely crucial to both of my characters, and will be for my Ele as well at least when I raise him up.
You can avoid (almost) everything in TERA but a lot of that isn't actually due specifically to the dodge mechanics themselves. TERA's enemies are much very strict from a predictability standpoint to the point that there are a lot of attacks you don't need to dodge at all if you are already moving (or simply already in the safe area) when you see the first tell. GW2 you can't really rely on avoidance 100% because the game doesn't design enemies with the idea that you can avoid something that you know is coming without dodging or burning a control skill.
To me, it plays out to a very small difference in regards to dodging itself. There are some classes in TERA where the dodge is a significant positioning tool (Mystic/Sorc) whereas in GW2 high mobility classes use actual skills for that kind of positioning. But the idea was generally the same; in both games you actually really only need to dodge some very intentional, visible attacks. When you're tanking in TERA it's sort of a different matter, and they kind of stand alone in that regard even compared to other TERA classes out of necessity.
The way the rest of the attacks are handled they diverge but in ways I think are pretty predictable for their game systems. Given TERA has dedicated healers it stands to reason that positioning accounts for a lot more total damage avoidance, and with GW2 giving everyone healing you'd expect individual players to manage that with active skills (stun/interrupt/reflect whatever) or through their self-healing. Basically I think the stuff you actually don't need dodge for is where they are much more different than the stuff you actually need to dodge.
It may be important for you, but again it isn't crucial. Since in my experience I didn't need it at all. GW2 half assed the dodging mechanic making it some sort of hybrid. Hence I don't find it crucial and by extension the difference with your standard WoW mmo fare becomes small. Especially with ranged classes the whole dodging mechanic falls flat, you only have 2 dodges with a pretty long cool down. Unless you build your whole class around dodging. Hence I feel that a proper regeneration/healing rotation with good position meant much more survivability then dodging ever did.
The combat in GW2 is a refinement over older MMO's it's however not different enough to say it's completely different. If you for example despise MMO combat in general. GW2 is not the game that will make you think otherwise imo.I mean, what others are on your list? I haven't played Tera but I hear the combat is fantastic. I would say Vindictus also did it well, but it sort of fails at being an MMO at all (much more along the lines of Monster Hunter).
Most of the MMOs (and plenty of action-RPGs.... this is where I look sideways at Diablo III) I've played put far less emphasis on dodging and positioning.
Also, the following features stand out hugely to me in making GW2 combat "different":
-Weapon swapping
-Skill-based/cross-profession combos
-Alternate skillsets- kits, summoned weapons, environmental weapons (things that temporarily replace your main weapon skills)
-Fully customizable rune/sigil sets (these affect all of my builds massively; to clarify "fully-customizable," you can obtain any weapon that looks and functions exactly the way you want with relative ease, and use any rune set on any armor)
-Combat-relevant class mechanics which are themselves unique (Shatter would be the clearest example, I just really don't know what it would compare to in other games)
Also, semi-tangential but I really am a fan of the underwater combat, and I usually loathe underwater gameplay.
Weapon swapping has been in Lineage 2 since 2003 even full armor swapping. Alternate skill set is nice, but all it is a refinement over say something like L2 where you had skills that worked for specific weapons. It's just a nice that you can press 1~5 instead of where ever you mapped that skill.
Fully customizable runes is awesome, but that's more a system in the game and not combat mechanic.
Not sure what you mean with Combat-relevant class mechanics? You mean things like steal+initiative? While cool, it's just special type of skill.
Under water combat is pretty cool, was surprised how much detail went into that.
It's a pretty huge difference. The tank needs to properly pay attention and block all the time. I played a healer in Tera and I die and the party can still survive without me. In Tera you survive because you can properly dodge all damage. In GW2 it's more because you created a good build. The game rewards pure skill regardless of your build. GW2 you need to have some survivability build into your class(unless you are a shortbow thief
). You as a low level character could kill high level mobs or party mobs in GW2. The only thing is that you do less damage.We disagree on the importance of dodging and that's just fine. I didn't even realize there were viable thief builds that did not rely on it and that's very interesting, it is wholly crucial to me both on my thief and mesmer (and again, not just for avoiding damage, and I haven't fully centered my builds around it, though I know it would be possible to do so).
Gonna have to agree with you there, I mean, it's not like you don't have a skill bar, lock onto mobs, see visible health bars, etc. I think it's a substantial refinement and feels quite "action-y" to me in comparison to Guild Wars 1 and almost all the other MMOs I've tried, but it is definitely not completely different.
That doesn't sound quite right. I don't remember being able to swap weapons in combat in my brief experience with L2, but I could be remembering wrong. Actually, I am having trouble even coming up with other RPGs in general that let you do this, let alone do it better. The Souls games are the only game I've played personally that do a more awesome job with this feature.
I'm referring to like, as an Ele, you can summon an ice bow with a utility skill, pick it up and have it replace your 1-5 weapon skills.
I gotcha, it depends on your setup to an extent. Two of my builds use rune sets that affect combat distinctly for me (not just a stat boost). All of my sigils have active effects in combat.
Yeah, steal or shatter would be another example. I agree that they are simply special types of skills, I meant that they themselves were pretty unique when compared to skills in other games. At least some of them anyway, have not played every class anywhere near enough to tell.
- Status