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Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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I only thump other peoples' chests. Got me kicked out a Subway once. Anyhoo...
Agree. GW2 is awesome for playing at my own pace and doing whatever the fuck I want. It fits my desired playstyle perfectly.
Would LOVE new weapon types.
Agree. GW2 is awesome for playing at my own pace and doing whatever the fuck I want. It fits my desired playstyle perfectly.
Would LOVE new weapon types.
Yeah, I really only had one character in PSO anyways. I'll probably end up picking it up at some point, though maybe not right away depending on what GW2 is doing and/or Starbound's release.
Seriously though, a lot of the hate comes from people who have loyalty elsewhere or are such huge GW1 fans that any change is considered for the worst. I can understand not wanting a series to change, but it was never going to last forever and it's clear the developers wanted to move on.
Somebody asked about that during an AMA on Reddit, specifically Great Axes, and the developer said something to the effect of "You're right, there should be Great Axes." As is traditional for MMO communities, this was extrapolated to mean "Great Axes are coming, every patch that does not contain them is a failure and you should post as such on the forum repeatedly so we don't get lazy."
And yes, fist weapons need to happen;
Warriors become brawlers, dual-wielding them with lots of dirty tricks like sucker punches, uppercuts and the like.
Thieves also duel-wield them, turning into martial arts masters. Lots of fast punches (with some kicks being worked into the combo)
Elementalists use it to channel permanent elemental weapons based on their attunement; a lightning spear, flame whip, a hulking stone hammer and icy claws. Main-hand only.
Mesmers use it in the off-hand, with a spell that causes an enemy's weapon to disappear temporarily ("Slight of Hand") or unleash a burst of dozens of enemy-seeking projectiles that bleed and shatter on contact for bonus splash damage ("Shard Trick").
Engineers use it as an offhand, with a taser-like skill that can be used to pull enemies to you if you cancel the daze effect ("Retractable Shock Cable"). The second skill launches the entire gauntlet off the Engineer's hand, causing confusion on impact ("Rocket Fist").
Guardians would use it in the off-hand as a casting device, to create a magical hand that keeps an enemy from getting closer than a set distance (or it can be cancelled to grasp, immobilizing them), or to generate a batch of Flaming Javelins. Once cast, the player can use the skill a set number of times (let's say 5) before invoking the cooldown, so you can turn them on and have a handful ready for whatever. The Javelins would pass through multiple enemies and create little vapor trails that regen any allies who walk through them.
No ideas on Necros (too many claw abilities already) or Rangers. Somebody come up with something cool.
Comes from years of having people who cheered on other MMOs poo-poo GW2 before it came out. With the exception of WoW (and Rift, I guess, but Rift players are always very nice), all of them have come out, bleed subscribers after a month, languished, and gone Free to Play, usually in a half-assed way. Tera is just the latest.
I guess we could be the bigger men about it, but where's the fun in that?
I want non-aquattic Spears (both one-handed spears, two-handed Halberds and off-hand Javelins), Fist weapons, Great Axes and Whips (with one-handed flails, of course)
Arken wants Scythes for his Guardian. Could throw in single-handed sickles as part of a theme.
I mean... it's a bit of a matter of perspective, isn't it?
In the months before release, GW2 was compared to literally every other active or upcoming MMO, favorably or unfavorably, rationally or irrationally. ArchAge, TERA, TOR, Secret World, WoW, everybody. Now that it's been a critical and commercial success while also having a pretty obvious impact on the future landscape of MMO pricing models, a certain type of backlash is to be expected. I suppose at times I do consider this thread somewhere that fans can be slightly insulated from that.
If you think what you've seen in this thread by fans of this game is particularly aggressive toward other MMOs then I wish I could share in your perception a bit. Mine is a little bit more jaded. Time spent on the official forums of any game will do that to you, I guess, or at least it did for me.
ooooooh weapons.
I want new weapons, but what REALLY gets me pumped is the potential for classes to "learn" existing weapons, as a way of adding new skills to the game. It could be easily explained in-lore as representatives from Cantha bringing over ancient training secrets or uncovered Dwarven training manuals.
I want thieves to be able to wield swords in the offhand with parrying options.
I want Mesmers to be able to use shields as 5-slot offensive weapons.
I want Eles to be able to dual-wield torches.
I want some class to be able to main hand a focus. Mostly to give myself a reason to use one ever.
Et, as they say, cetera
Don't forget it was compared to Diablo 3 a lot too, for... um... some reason. I think it was spill-over from Blizzard fans who had kind of come to terms that WoW isn't very good anymore (in my opinion, of course) so they just latched on to whatever was handy.
But to your point about the future landscape of MMOs... I don't see how anyone post GW2 can release an AAA MMO with the traditional questing system. Say what you want about Dynamic Events being bugged (which, most of them aren't anymore), but they work and there is no going back to a hub full of yellow question marks giving you bland quest text asking you to kill 10 rats. Rather than bitch about it, or claim that the old, broken ass approach is 'still good', people should embrace the change to the MMO Formula established by EQ and refined by WoW. MMOs in general will be better for it, and I'm fairly certain MMO reviews from now on will include something to the effect of "why are there still static quests?"
Also, a laugh from the TERA thread;
Whoa. WHOA! Shit... I am goin' to jail. Seriously, I can't believe anyone ever though "Hey, you know what this game needs? Half-naked super-sexy children."
Spehornoob
Member
I think that type of game can still work, but it needs to adapt. Quests need to be more involved and at least feel like there's an impact being had. I believe one of the stated goals of FFXIV:ARR is to try and replicate the feel of a single player FF game in an MMO environment. I think that type of thing could work well, especially if you can get a consistent party of people to adventure with. TOR tried this idea with it's presentation, but what you actually *did* during the quests was the same old design.
But your standard "go out and kill ten monsters" quests will hopefully go by the wayside soon. And good riddance.
I dislike how people just flat out go "this game is failing because it's going free-to-play." I feel that it's rather strong to label something that way over saying that it's simply adapting or changing or with the times. It's only safe to say "fail" if the game was doing okay and suddenly tanked after going F2P for whatever reason it might have been. I digress though as people are people and need to take things to extremes.
Now on the other hand, TORtanic is called what it is for a reason..
Now on the other hand, TORtanic is called what it is for a reason..
Big things GW2 did to questing;
- Dynamic: Events occur as a result of changes in the world, either other dynamic events caused them or just being on some kind of timer / metric. They are not static, waiting for people to come find them. WAR's PQs were static and repeated with extreme frequency, Rift's Rifts were simply variations on "Enemies come out. Kill enemies. Rift closes". GW2 was the first to use dynamic events in lieu of traditional questing.
- Cooperative: Everyone contributes to the event at the same time towards a singe goal. Your progress is not running counter or even parallel to mine; we are working together. Surprising, given how the entire genre is supposed to be about the social aspects of playing a game with lots of other people (who, because of the quest design, were hurting your progress).
- Persistent visual cues: The centaurs are attacking because they are actually attacking, right now, over there, where you can see them. Where everyone can see them, not because of cheap tricks like 'phasing' where everyone sees something different based on their progress; everyone sees the changes to the world, what needs to be done and what happens when it is done.
- Cooperative: Everyone contributes to the event at the same time towards a singe goal. Your progress is not running counter or even parallel to mine; we are working together. Surprising, given how the entire genre is supposed to be about the social aspects of playing a game with lots of other people (who, because of the quest design, were hurting your progress).
- Persistent visual cues: The centaurs are attacking because they are actually attacking, right now, over there, where you can see them. Where everyone can see them, not because of cheap tricks like 'phasing' where everyone sees something different based on their progress; everyone sees the changes to the world, what needs to be done and what happens when it is done.
Any MMO that comes out from here on out that doesn't have events vs. static quests, automatic cooperative questing and persistent changes to the world that show you are making a difference should be called out for following the MMO Playbook from almost a decade ago.
It's because a game that goes F2P after trying the subscription-based model is essentially admitting that the game wasn't good enough to continue to exist as it was designed. Whether that is actually the case or simply the perception, that is still generally the reaction; the game isn't doing well because it had to make a major change to its business structure.
If by not good enough, you mean the pricing model was not a good fit for the game in the current MMO environment, then I don't disagree. While there have been many crappy, cookie cutter, money grab MMOs released over the years, whose failure can be directly attributed to the quality of the game itself, its not fair to say a game going free to play means the game itself was bad. Not that you were saying that, but I just want to be clear.
Simply put, the subscription model is showing its age, and most MMOs do not need nor deserve the constant cash stream of subscription fees for nothing other than being able to play the game. Any new game with this pricing model is going to be heavily scrutinized as to whether or not the price is justified, and frankly, in most cases the audience will find that it isn't. The only games that can really get away with it are those that have been grandfathered in. There might be some game out there that the subscription truly makes sense for, but I don't care to speculate on that at the moment. So long as MMOs are being made with customer un-friendly pricing models, you aren't going to have enough people who stick around long enough to find out if the actual game itself is worth playing or not. Especially in a genre where the core of a game can evolve drastically over time, and the vanilla version might pale in comparison to the game 6 months to a year later.
So, when I see a game go F2P, I don't think "well that just proves the game wasn't good enough for a subsciption fee." I think "well that just proves a subscription fee wasn't a good fit for that game (and the execs who decided to implement it are morons), but at least now more people can try the game out".
I think I get what you're saying. I mean it's definitely not necessarily indicative of the quality of a game to any extent.
Really what it usually signifies to me is sort of funny. I mean, it feels a lot more like a sort of desperate scramble- again, regardless of the quality of the game- to adapt to changing times. I mean I think it's pretty obvious that TOR expected to be able to maintain a standard subscription model for several years without issue, and their kind of haphazard F2P structure (sprinting...?) supports this. Really, I mean, it almost goes to show that the quality of the game might even be irrelevant- not that I don't think Blizzard's new MMO would be successful if it launched with a standard subscription model, but I don't think that would be because it was high-quality by necessity, either. It'd be because it was Blizzard's new MMO. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but yeah.
The Secret World is the one that really impressed me. The saw the writing on the wall in a big way, and while I haven't purchased it yet I almost definitely will, whereas I definitely never would have under a subscription.
Let's do an event this weekend!!!
CoF 1 Race? I wish there was a way you could prove you killed the Ooze King (still haven't done it)
Kos Luftar
Member
Ooze King is easy but the United Ooze is what you got to watch out for.
Time is money and it's not worth going to after the first time. What a damage sponge.
CoF 1 is usually in and out in about 20 minutes since I normally have about 8-10 minutes to spare on my mf/gold food. Using that as a timer, we will take a detour before the bridge event. By the time we were through with the 5 waves of silver-ranked oozes and partially through the United/Grand Ooze's health pool, I noticed that my mf/gold food had died out at some point in the process.
Have we done Queensdale yet? Har har.
I'm sitting on 1270 hours of playtime.... I'm guessing it's a bit much?
Sure had loads of fun with everyone within this time span though. Actually, it's probably due to the sheer amount of enjoyment that i yearn for more content.
I would start such a pissing contest if I posted mine as well since it'd probably start prompting overs to do so as well, but I weeeen. I'm not sure if that's a good thing though. Other than that, I think it is indeed because of all the time we've spent going through content causing it to become stale. Lately I've only been logging in to do the daily for the karma container and then hop in on any runs that may be happening right then and there. If not, I'll log off and do something else.
Edit: Oh, I found it.
hockeypuck
Member
I think having a guild event in one of the starting zones would be fantastic; a GAF zerg just razing everything and overwhelming random people who just started playing. People could bring their alts to level up.
Okay, well we've done Queensdale and Plains...
Metrica? I could take us to the jumping puzzle if you guys want.
Mr. Luchador
Member
I hope the Jan patch does something for the horrible camera control/angle
this is why i like games w/o subs. I can play whenever the fuck I want and not feel like i'm losing money. even though 15/month is fairly cheap anyways, it was always in the back of mind. i just quickly grab the orics to sell for an easy 60-80s a day.
just hope the wvw update fixes a lot of the stagnation next month. lack of a meta-game really is a bummer imo.
re camera: it's the horrible FOV. they still don't get it. it's slightly more tolerable but still god awful.
Kos Luftar
Member
How about we do the Clean Up Crew boss achievement?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bosses
It requires that we complete the Thumanova Reactor Meta event (which itself requires killing a champion or 2), than we have to scavenger around to find a special Key that we have to infuse with 4 elements (requires a lot of jumping on platforms), and then we have to fight the steam ogre (which I haven't gotten to do yet but I think he might be a champ), and "Upon defeating the boss a secret chest is spawned along with a teleporter (located off the platform) and a countdown commences."
Sounds interesting for a guild event?
Has anyone done this before?
NobleXenon
Member
I've done it. I recommend to follow the YouTube video on how to do it to save time. It takes a while to get everything you need to enter the secret boss room. I had to advertise in map chat to get a few people to help me take down the boss.
Kos Luftar
Member
I tried doing it with a couple of guys from guild, Varix and my brother, once we completed the Meta Event, we tried finding the key but we couldn't. I have a feeling that the pugs who tagged along in Meta Event might have picked it up and left so I don't know how long it takes for it to re-spawn.
I guess if you guys decide to clear Metrica Province, then you can leave this for end or just do this and not clear the whole area.
When were you planning on doing this guild event? This weekend?
I will check out the youtube clip but with guild events like this I do not think we will mind if it is not quick. As long as we get to complete it.
Kos Luftar
Member
Afternoon sounds good. Something always seems to come up on weekend evenings so I prefer afternoons.
hockeypuck
Member
Sounds good to me, I'll be in Metrica Province on Saturday.
Game is dying..on my server anyway,the Aura region is pretty quiet and of course it's impossible to do anything in that area by yourself,they have bunched so many annoying ennemies so close together it's ridiculous and don't get me started on the Aura Dungeon...I would of prefered another ending to the My Story questline then a 5 man dungeon...oh well,maybe I will give it another go with my Mesmer,or finally try and join you guys on the GAF server if there is room left.
Ehmry Bay...I played also mostly on a European french server...is it not Aura in English lol? Orr?
Spehornoob
Member
I finally did some actual dungeon running last night. Ran all three Explorables for AC and the Story for Twilight Arbor.
I don't know why story AC is so rough, but I love the other stuff I've run. It was a blast. And you get a shit-ton of exp. So now I like dungeons. Which means my life is going to be gone because there is almost nothing about this game I don't care for.
And the end of story mode TA, there's a point right before the final boss where you have to kill (rather difficult) Nightmares and throw their essences to release a mini-boss. As soon as I threw the last essence to release the boss, someone freed another Nightmare. So I distracted the boss, led him away from the party, and took him on by myself (defensive skills, heals, and evade) while the rest of them fought the other Nightmare. It was a pretty awesome moment.
I don't know why story AC is so rough, but I love the other stuff I've run. It was a blast. And you get a shit-ton of exp. So now I like dungeons. Which means my life is going to be gone because there is almost nothing about this game I don't care for.
And the end of story mode TA, there's a point right before the final boss where you have to kill (rather difficult) Nightmares and throw their essences to release a mini-boss. As soon as I threw the last essence to release the boss, someone freed another Nightmare. So I distracted the boss, led him away from the party, and took him on by myself (defensive skills, heals, and evade) while the rest of them fought the other Nightmare. It was a pretty awesome moment.
Orr yep, hehe. Well definitely hop over to SBI if you don't mind the language disparity
Yay! You're part of the dungeon crew now. Well done on Colossus Rumblus btw, I consider that one of the hardest early dungeon paths. We should run something soon! You're high enough for CM, at least. Story's a bit of a joke but I like all three Exp paths.
Holy crap, I can't even imagine.
I have 45 hours of playtime and I've a level 40 lol.
Man at 1270 hours, if you paid full price (I didn't ) and discount any gems you may have purchased, that's roughly 21 hours per dollar spent. I'm thinking Starcraft, Diablo 2, GW1, Halo 2 and this (I'm just under 1000, heading toward it ) are the only games that would have a comparable rate like that for me. This one definitely got there the fastest.
) and discount any gems you may have purchased, that's roughly 21 hours per dollar spent. I'm thinking Starcraft, Diablo 2, GW1, Halo 2 and this (I'm just under 1000, heading toward it ) are the only games that would have a comparable rate like that for me. This one definitely got there the fastest.Spehornoob
Member
I'd be up for that. I've still gotta move over to Stormbluff though. I've got work on weekdays and then rehearsal for a show (theatre geek, what can I say) four evenings a week, so I may not be on as much as some people, but I'll find time.
Months after I got it, and the game still blows me away. I'm really excited to see what kind of stuff is gonna be happening in the coming months/year. From what I've heard about Fractals from you guys and others, it sounds like they're already improving.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Not sure what race and class to go next.
Oh wait, you're not on an NA server?
Spehornoob
Member
I'm on an NA server (Emhry Bay, I think), just not on Stormbluff. It was full when I got the game and I haven't moved over yet.
What do you have so far, and which is your favorite at the moment?
Mr. Luchador
Member
I've got (more or less) 1 of each at the moment with 1 spare slot.
1. Asura Guardian <--- Only one I've really played (lvl 80).
2. Norn Warrior
3. Human Warrior
4. Human Mesmer
5. Human Thief
6. Norn Ranger
7. Norn Elementalist
8. Sylvari Necromancer
9. Charr Engineer
10. ???
1. Asura Guardian <--- Only one I've really played (lvl 80).
2. Norn Warrior
3. Human Warrior
4. Human Mesmer
5. Human Thief
6. Norn Ranger
7. Norn Elementalist
8. Sylvari Necromancer
9. Charr Engineer
10. ???
Kos Luftar
Member
Probably an Asura Elementalist.
I'm got one of those!
I dig the mainhand dagger skills, but I don't know if I'm comfortable with the range.
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