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Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks

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etiolate

Banned
Loot seems MUCH better from world events now, I haven't gotten less than 2 rares per dragon/largeish event.

Also, glad to see that Final Rest has been found(a bunch already), which leads me to believe the loot tables(Shadow Behemoth) were bugged all this time...
Yeah, five rares on three zone bosses.

Getting terrible RNG on my salvages though. 1 ecto in my last four rare Black Lion salvages. Just going to start selling the rare instead.

I don't mind complaints as much as I mind people claiming that we should "open our eyes" to how ascended gear has absolutely ruined this game. To me, it's had the least impact possible, and that's how the sheer amount and audacity of the complaints are confusing.

Rewards in games like MMOs have a large impact. One of the reasons FotM created a player vacuum is because they were the only way to access the Ascended rewards. Just a quick example of how rewards dictate overall player behavior. It's tough for me to say Ascended has little impact on how people behave.
 
People complain about RNG so they give you a clear concise way of getting high end loot (laurels), and even make it easier by allowing you choose your dailies, but now ANET sucks because I need to play the game to get those items.

ANET has only been listening to what people want this whole time.
 

markot

Banned
A small section of the community who make the most noise. Not 'players'.

They seem to just be adding time sinks to the game, its mmorpg 101, but its the worst way go extend the life of a game. Or enjoyment.
 
Have to admit, everything I 'expected' from this game from what I read on GAF, and from Anet has led to disappointment. It's quickly turning to a very typical MMO at this point, but only without any focus.

I'm glad there's no sub fees, which will mean I'll dip in and out whenever. However, I'm not entirely sure what GW2 wants to be. They seem to be throwing things around randomly hoping it'll please 'someone'.
 

markot

Banned
Also the 'living story' has been pretty lame so far... little content or direction or... fun or story or anything really...
 

etiolate

Banned
Artificial time extenders are typical MMO bullshit that just doesn't belong in something people enjoy for it not being typical MMO bullshit.

We aren't even able to do Guild Missions yet because they are a part of long queues. Hell, if those missions were available right now then the mood would probably be a lot more positive because everyone would be doing the new content, but they aren't ready to do and instead we all watch the clock tick away.

The laurel + ecto cost is just another artificial time extender.
 
I don't understand why a game with no monthly sub, has so many grinds and time sinks attached to it.

They live from the gemstore. If people don't buy their services and stuff, in their quests to get legendary weapons and such, then they wont have much revenue.

Many people genuinely need these grinds and time sinks.



ArenaNets idea is that Ascended items are this awesome thing that is supposed to take a very long time. I think many players don't feel that is fair because its just stats. its not this visual rewarding entity like a rare piece of weapon. Its stats with a cool lore-gw1-throwback name on it. There was the quiver, but that thing is also costly beyond worlds.

I dont think these things are meant to be pursued actively by most people. dailies is probably more something that is supposed to happen in the background without you really noticing it all that much.



gauging the quality of this update is difficult before we try the guild missions. populating the PvE world and making us want to go back is very important.


I think the next step is to give more ways to get laurels. like converting dungeon tokens to laurels. or karma.
 
I don't understand why a game with no monthly sub, has so many grinds and time sinks attached to it.

What content could they possibly add that wouldn't be considered a time sink? If they had items and gear be rng drops... it's a time sink. Tokens/laurels? Time sink. Anything that doesn't take time and effort is a loot piñata and that's obviously too easy. Ascended gear isn't necessary either so you can just focus on getting other things like gold or legendary weapons. If none of that interests you.. then don't play for awhile. It's not as if you're paying for time.

Honestly there's no reason for Anet bashing simply because the game doesn't satisfy you with content delivery that is mandatory for the genre. I mean it's like getting mad at Activision because the new CoD dlc still requires you to shoot guns.
 
They live from the gemstore. If people don't buy their services and stuff, in their quests to get legendary weapons and such, then they wont have much revenue.

Many people genuinely need these grinds and time sinks.



ArenaNets idea is that Ascended items are this awesome thing that is supposed to take a very long time. I think many players don't feel that is fair because its just stats. its not this visual rewarding entity like a rare piece of weapon. Its stats with a cool lore-gw1-throwback name on it. There was the quiver, but that thing is also costly beyond worlds.

I dont think these things are meant to be pursued actively by most people. dailies is probably more something that is supposed to happen in the background without you really noticing it all that much.



gauging the quality of this update is difficult before we try the guild missions. populating the PvE world and making us want to go back is very important.


I think the next step is to give more ways to get laurels. like converting dungeon tokens to laurels. or karma.

I think that's it for me. I was of the understanding that the game would be more about getting together cool looking skins and item stats wouldn't be the grind. Yet, it seems to be item stats are the thing to grind for.

What content could they possibly add that wouldn't be considered a time sink? If they had items and gear be rng drops... it's a time sink. Tokens/laurels? Time sink. Anything that doesn't take time and effort is a loot piñata and that's obviously too easy. Ascended gear isn't necessary either so you can just focus on getting other things like gold or legendary weapons. If none of that interests you.. then don't play for awhile. It's not as if you're paying for time.

Honestly there's no reason for Anet bashing simply because the game doesn't satisfy you with content delivery that is mandatory for the genre. I mean it's like getting mad at Activision because the new CoD dlc still requires you to shoot guns.

Perhaps time sink is too broad a word to use, so I'll just stick to plan old grind. Always associate a grind with the cheap tactics of monthly sub games that want you to slave away every day/week/month so they get your money. Thought GW2 would be different considering the pre-release hype. Not sure I agree with your belief that people cannot be 'bash' Anet though. They've back tracked on their manifesto a lot already, and now they seem to be stuck between two opinions and aren't really satisfying anyone.
 

LkPr

Member
anyone had any luck with AC path 2 after the patch? Specifically the Ghost Eater... was in a GAF group last night and we could not get the whole trap mechanic to work... one of the traps seemed to be bugged (it would never activate) and it was such a pain to bring the globs directly into the trap. Most times they would 'melt' before we even got it there... seems like this path really needs all party members to be on Mumble or something now
 

Lunar15

Member
anyone had any luck with AC path 2 after the patch? Specifically the Ghost Eater... was in a GAF group last night and we could not get the whole trap mechanic to work... one of the traps seemed to be bugged (it would never activate) and it was such a pain to bring the globs directly into the trap. Most times they would 'melt' before we even got it there... seems like this path really needs all party members to be on Mumble or something now

Ha, yeah I was in that group. I dunno, maybe it was because it was late and I'd never done it before, but it was pretty frustrating. I can see how it works, and I know plenty of people who have done it, but it just takes a good degree of communication and probably a better understanding of how it works. I think after another run I could get it down.

That being said, one of the traps WAS bugged, and the ooze absorption process was wonky. I sent a bug report to Anet, though.
 
Perhaps time sink is too broad a word to use, so I'll just stick to plan old grind. Always associate a grind with the cheap tactics of monthly sub games that want you to slave away every day/week/month so they get your money. Thought GW2 would be different considering the pre-release hype. Not sure I agree with your belief that people cannot be 'bash' Anet though. They've back tracked on their manifesto a lot already, and now they seem to be stuck between two opinions and aren't really satisfying anyone.

I'm not really seeing where they've backtracked on anything regarding gear. Ascended was introduced specifically to be able to bring in a scalable mechanic that can quickly and easily increase difficulty to dungeons.

The gear itself seems pretty negligible in my experience. I haven't had an issue in any content and I don't have a single piece of Ascended. I simply don't do fractals. I'm really not interested in fractals either so it's fine for me. I just log in, do the daily... maybe a jumling puzzle or clear a zone and log out. Sometimes I wuvwuv sometimes I spvp... none of that has been affected by gear at all.
 
Must suck for MMO devs reading the same stuff over and over.

One month after launch, Guy A is complaining about lack of endgame and gear grind.
After patching in stuff, Guy B is complaining endgame is grindy and no longer casual.
 

hythloday

Member
Must suck for MMO devs reading the same stuff over and over.

One month after launch, Guy A is complaining about lack of endgame and gear grind.
After patching in stuff, Guy B is complaining endgame is grindy and no longer casual.

This.

Absolutely anything can be grindy, depending on how you play. Hell, I used to level characters and farm skill points in Final Fantasy Tactics by cornering an enemy, almost killing them, then healing them and starting over. For entire afternoons. The sad face on the almost-dead chocobos made me sad.

I simply ignore content that I don't find fun. I don't stress that getting a Legendary weapon will take forever, I don't care that it will take X number of Fractal runs to get an Ascended Doodad, and I really couldn't give a shit about the most efficient method of finishing my Daily. (In fact, I wish you could toggle off the entire display.)

I just log on and do what feels fun today, and if the end result is a few tokens or a laurel happening, yay. If not, whatever.

Edit: I will say that I am minorly annoyed at adding additional currency ONLY because it grates on my minimalist streak. We have laurels, dungeon tokens, fractal relics, karma, gold, and ectos for the ascended stuff... it kinda clutters up the bank and inventory UI. Doesn't bother me one bit that it's "something else to grind" though. It would be totally fine if EVERYTHING went into your collectibles tab or a currency tab.
 

LkPr

Member
Ha, yeah I was in that group. I dunno, maybe it was because it was late and I'd never done it before, but it was pretty frustrating. I can see how it works, and I know plenty of people who have done it, but it just takes a good degree of communication and probably a better understanding of how it works. I think after another run I could get it down.

That being said, one of the traps WAS bugged, and the ooze absorption process was wonky. I sent a bug report to Anet, though.

sorry about having to bail on that as well... I really wasn't expecting to be in there for well over an hour which we were... was expecting one of those 'quick' pre-patch runs lol. I would definitely try it again I just wouldn't start it so late and have it run past 2am (which sucks with a 6am wake-up)
 

Retro

Member
Mega Post incoming, you know the drill. Gonna skim over the Official Forum-y garbage, you know who you are, you know what you did and now you're on my list.

Basically, when Alpha puts up his icy double ring aoe, the trick is to NOT MOVE (usually). The earth ring will miss you. You still have to avoid the fire aoe, but for the double circles it's often safe just to stand flat out in the middle of them.

There IS a small chance he will single you out and you will get a central ice spike (where you want to move) and not the earth circle (where you don't.) If you have to guess, just don't move.

If there's ice in the center when the AOE rings pop up, stay in the center and you will be fine.
If there isn't ice, but it slowly starts to accumulate, it means he's going to ice spike and you need to move.
He generally ice spikes one person continually, so let people in your group know if you are 'it' so they don't have to worry about it (unless you're downed, I think he chooses a new target them).

yeah, im losing interest in this game fast. i haven't played in a while because it's pointless. no dungeon finder means i cant do them because i refuse to wait hours to get a group. hardly anyone plays at 2am when i play.

Try guesting on Sea of Sorrows, which was supposed to be the Unofficial Oceanic server. You might also try gw2lfg.com. You can group with anyone regardless of server for dungeons.

I don't really think it's the game's fault that nobody is on at an odd hour, though I agree that an in-game LFG tool would be a vast improvement. Last we heard, they were working on it.

Is this game any good? One of the guys on the hall offered to let me borrow it.

The game is excellent, despite the negativity of the last page or so (all related to changes made in the latest patch that don't affect the majority of the game). Definitely give it a try.

People complain about RNG so they give you a clear concise way of getting high end loot (laurels), and even make it easier by allowing you choose your dailies, but now ANET sucks because I need to play the game to get those items.

ANET has only been listening to what people want this whole time.

This post is the diamond in the rough and can't be quoted enough. In fact, you know what? I'm gonna make it shiny and red so more people see it.

Aww yeah, that's the stuff.

A small section of the community who make the most noise. Not 'players'.

They seem to just be adding time sinks to the game, its mmorpg 101, but its the worst way go extend the life of a game. Or enjoyment.

I think people are looking at Laurels / Commendations as "Another grind that needs to be done", because they're either so used to the way other MMOs do it or they ate paint chips as a kid or something.

The alternative method for getting Ascended gear is just that; alternative methods. You don't need to grind out anything if you're earning it from Fractals, or wherever else they decide to introduce it in the future. This is merely a way for other people to get their hands on gear if they don't frequent other types of content.

Dailies and monthlies aren't meant to be something you grind out quickly either. Most of them are things we do normally anyways; kill monsters, complete events, fight underwater, salvage items. These are not things people have to go out of their way to do.

I think the majority of people are looking at it backwards, because they're stuck in the mindset of other MMOs and their skinner box-esque reward system. They see it as having to constantly play to get a reward, whereas the implementation is the reverse; the game is simply rewarding you for constantly playing. The gear that costs 40 laurels isn't 'buried' because they want it to be a grindy time sink, it's there so the folks who only play a little bit every day can eventually get some gear too.

I will say that I am minorly annoyed at adding additional currency ONLY because it grates on my minimalist streak. We have laurels, dungeon tokens, fractal relics, karma, gold, and ectos for the ascended stuff... it kinda clutters up the bank and inventory UI. Doesn't bother me one bit that it's "something else to grind" though. It would be totally fine if EVERYTHING went into your collectibles tab or a currency tab.

Yeah, for some reason the Dungeon Token Collectables tab wasn't implemented this patch, that would have cleaned up the dungeon tokens and fractal relics.

And on that note, GW2DB datamined an item called a "Bauble" that appears to be another currency for something called the "Super Adventure Box." My guess is, it's related to April Fools, but who knows.
 

Levyne

Banned
I think the buff/nerf to world boss chests is pretty good. It was fun to see gaffers run about to each dragon, the Shadow Behemoth, fire ele, maw guy, etc.
 
Yeah. Why can't we have every single piece of new content they put out, instantly?

Now that gives me real incentive to keep playing.

... Perhaps it was silly of me to believe the hype. I was under the impression Anet was some great developer, yet they're doing exactly the same as all the other MMO teams. Grind for this, grind for tokens for that. There must be more interesting ways to design and spread out content.

I'm not surprised however that people who post their disappointment about certain aspects of the game are met with arrogant, obnoxious or sarcastic replies. rise above that crap, especially if you're trying to claim moral high ground about official forum trash posts... No one needs that.
 
I think the buff/nerf to world boss chests is pretty good. It was fun to see gaffers run about to each dragon, the Shadow Behemoth, fire ele, maw guy, etc.

yeah.

Our guild (Mayh) just did Shadow, Shattere, Sunless, Jormag, Fire Elemental. Everyone gave me 1-2 rares, and for sunless I only qualified for bronze and still got a rare. Salvaging them all gave me 8 ectos. Pretty good.


this was fun. we dont want to do jormag ten times a day. screw that noise. now we need to make many things rewarding. many chains. on many maps. hopefully I will be able to tag along on other peoples events.


so this is a good step. next step - make our guild travel everywhere. let our guilds assault and occupy many events.



Fire Elemental made me sad though. I didnt know it was nerfed. this ultra overpowered boss was so much fun. Much more fun than grenth is now!
 

Tarazet

Member
Dailies and monthlies aren't meant to be something you grind out quickly either. Most of them are things we do normally anyways; kill monsters, complete events, fight underwater, salvage items. These are not things people have to go out of their way to do.

I think the majority of people are looking at it backwards, because they're stuck in the mindset of other MMOs and their skinner box-esque reward system. They see it as having to constantly play to get a reward, whereas the implementation is the reverse; the game is simply rewarding you for constantly playing. The gear that costs 40 laurels isn't 'buried' because they want it to be a grindy time sink, it's there so the folks who only play a little bit every day can eventually get some gear too.

So how do I get gear if I can play 10-12 hours every Saturday, but very little otherwise? I put in as much time as someone's who is just doing the dailies every day.
 

Retro

Member
So how do I get gear if I can play 10-12 hours every Saturday, but very little otherwise? I put in as much time as someone's who is just doing the dailies every day.

The same way everyone else gets gear; dungeons, drops, world events, crafting, the trading post and vendors (especially Karma). Eventually you'll be able to get gear from guild missions (like everyone else, I wish the barrier to entry was lower) and commendations.

And yeah, though you're only doing one daily a week, eventually, you would have laurels from doing dailies... but since you're playing the game a lot anyways, you don't really need them.

Dailies are a reward for doing things you're (probably) already doing. But because there's a reward attached to it, the MMO mndset turns it into something mandatory.
 
I think that's it for me. I was of the understanding that the game would be more about getting together cool looking skins and item stats wouldn't be the grind. Yet, it seems to be item stats are the thing to grind for.



Perhaps time sink is too broad a word to use, so I'll just stick to plan old grind. Always associate a grind with the cheap tactics of monthly sub games that want you to slave away every day/week/month so they get your money. Thought GW2 would be different considering the pre-release hype. Not sure I agree with your belief that people cannot be 'bash' Anet though. They've back tracked on their manifesto a lot already, and now they seem to be stuck between two opinions and aren't really satisfying anyone.



Don't be like that, mate. To clarify;


The difference between the time sink/grind in Guild Wars 2 and other games is that GW2 allows you to play every day for much less time investment while still chipping in towards a larger goal.
So the idea is that in other games you will be asked to do a 4-5 hour raid for the day. In GW2 you can work across all your characters for a laurel, since laurels are account bound. The idea is that by just playing around in the world doing what you want to do, a lot of the daily requirement should come by itself.


It's important to understand that ascended is not something they made for you to religiously attain quickly. they made it to give you a long term investment to keep playing the game. your not asked to grind dungeons, wvw, your just asked to pick 5 things from a list 9 requirements that takes 2-5 minutes each. these requirements revolve around playing the game.



I think this difference is massive from other games. I think the upsetting part about Ascended is that people didn't knew. people didn't understand that there was going to be another thing after exotic. this was confusing and scary. but it seems like they are on a track now. and that they will in the future reward laurels for even more sorts of activities. and then as we go into 2014 we might see the ascended weapons or armors.

I've understood it like that they are not going to make new tiers after this. and that your meant to accumilate over this a long period of time.

A guild mate said that the high prices 40 laurels + ectos, is to motivate people to play with their guilds and do guild missions as it will be much cheaper way to go about it.

does this stigmatize people into being in guilds? well, I think it does, but I also think that this is okay. I think this game inherently is set up, that if there is no pinpointing and game systems set in place to keep the world (entire world! tons of maps!) occupied, the game cant sustain itself. a few years from now the surplus of new players will dwindle. therefore its IMO paramount that they keep players engaged in the physical world and make it not dissolve into instanced dungeons gameplay.
 

hythloday

Member
So how do I get gear if I can play 10-12 hours every Saturday, but very little otherwise? I put in as much time as someone's who is just doing the dailies every day.

I'd say you might even get gear easier than the guy who just does their daily every day!

In your 10-12 hour play session, you have more time to do a variety of things. You can do dungeons, fractals, world events, 2 dailies if you play around the time it resets, and make some progress towards a monthly too. Or heck, WvW too. And map completion/karma items.
 

Tarazet

Member
I'd say you might even get gear easier than the guy who just does their daily every day!

In your 10-12 hour play session, you have more time to do a variety of things. You can do dungeons, fractals, world events, 2 dailies if you play around the time it resets, and make some progress towards a monthly too. Or heck, WvW too. And map completion/karma items.

Most of that stuff seems like it will only do me good if I'm already level capped, other than laurels and karma, or am I wrong?
 

Retro

Member
does this stigmatize people into being in guilds? well, I think it does, but I also think that this is okay. I think this game inherently is set up, that if there is no pinpointing and game systems set in place to keep the world (entire world! tons of maps!) occupied, the game cant sustain itself. a few years from now the surplus of new players will dwindle. therefore its IMO paramount that they keep players engaged in the physical world and make it not dissolve into instanced dungeons gameplay.

I would like to add to this point (and honestly, your post is full of them) that one of the biggest complaints about Guild Wars 2 is that there wasn't any large-scale content outside of the Dragons and WvW. For months after launch there was a steady outpouring of people basically asking "Why isn't there raiding?"

Guild Missions are effectively Raiding done Right. It's a large scale activity with it's own alternative method for procuring gear. Unlike raiding, it is actually out in the world where other people can participate (you guys do know you can find a guild doing a mission and tag along for the chest, right?) and doesn't have a cap on how many can participate.

This is a part of the game that some (but not all) people felt was lacking, and ArenaNet went about trying to fix it. I personally think they sound awesome, I just wish we could do them now.

Not everyone gets to do Guild Missions, or gets to do them right away because of the size of their guild. That sucks, but not everyone gets to do all of the content anyways. I don't particularly like SPVP, but that doesn't mean I pitch a fit every time they improve it. If Guild Missions aren't your thing, February just wasn't your month. March is probably going to be WvW-centric too. After that, who knows. The Living Story is supposed to accelerate in the near future and wrap up in April.

Stuff is coming, but they can't touch every part of the game simultaneously.

Most of that stuff seems like it will only do me good if I'm already level capped, other than laurels and karma, or am I wrong?

Well, maximizing your equipment should really only be a concern if you're level capped anyways, as you'll likely replace a lot of it as you level. The only people I've seen really going for sub-80 rares are those doing World vs. World who want their gear to be competitive (since WvW scales your character to 80, but not your gear). If you're not at the level cap, just keep playing like you have been and have fun. Don't worry about gear, that you're playing the game wrong, or you're setting yourself up for a rough time down the road. Spend your Karma if you see some gear that will improve you. Pick up a new weapon off the TP if it's a reasonable price.

Gear is not the be-all-end-all in this game. It never was and never will be. But I think people are going apeshit over Ascended gear because they're still in the mindset that it is.

As far as Laurels go, if you're not at max level there's stuff for you there too. The Laureate Boosters all cost 1 Laurel and help you level / get money / get gear faster. There's dyes and stuff in there too, if playing 'for looks' is your thing. Or you can save them all and get an Ascended item eventually (though there are easier ways, like Fractals) or for 5 Laurels you can get two rare-quality items tailored for your profession from the Gear Boxes.
 
Most of that stuff seems like it will only do me good if I'm already level capped, other than laurels and karma, or am I wrong?

If you're not level capped.. why are you worried about working towards gear?

This isn't to say it isn't possible to work towards gear if you're not level capped.. as both the dailies and fractals are able to be done under level cap and both will help you work towards gear.

In any case.. any activity that you do that makes you money can contribute to your ability to acquire Exotic gears (which is the greatest gear you can get for the majority of the slots). Ascended is only Accessories at this point and Legendaries are only weapons.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Some guy sold a Final Rest for 6g last night, when he could have sold it for several hundred gold.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
My guild was talking about it last night ...i understand it's rarity but the price for that staff isn't worth it...

Well it'll drop down to like 10g soon now that everyone is farming shadow behemoth. It was only worth so much because before last night, there were zero Final Rests in the game.
 

Vossler

Member
Wow, totally forgot about the update yesterday...(was traveling). Going to get home tonight and update for sure. Looking forward to the guild events, as well as the revamped achievement system. Also sweet news about Final Rest being found. Also read they shutdown the 3-in-1 in CoE. Oh well, only 30 more lodestones.
 

Trey

Member
Patch was good to me. AC is a lot more fun, especially Kholer.

I couldn't give less of a shit about laurels. They're rewards you get for just playing the game on a daily basis. Luckily, the actual game is fun for me. So it's no grind.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Just chillin' waiting for Taco

ifNSslTsPhx0w.png
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Fire Elemental made me sad though. I didnt know it was nerfed. this ultra overpowered boss was so much fun. Much more fun than grenth is now!
They nerfed the Fire Elemental? Goddamnit.

Getting my ass massacred by him at level 10 and then returned at level 80 and wrecking his shit with skilled play was so satisfying. How much of a difference is it?
Just chillin' waiting for Taco
Damn, that's a cool shot
stop using imgur!!! ;)
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Oh, I still use minus, what's wrong with them? D: I have an account though, maybe they've changed how it works if you're an anon uploader?

Imgur compresses the crap out of stuff. If your image is bigger than like a thumbnail it makes a pretty visible difference, at least to my hawk-eyes ;)
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Oh, I still use minus, what's wrong with them? D: I have an account though, maybe they've changed how it works if you're an anon uploader?

Imgur compresses the crap out of stuff. If your image is bigger than like a thumbnail it makes a pretty visible difference, at least to my hawk-eyes ;)

Oh I didn't know it compressed it, there fixed with minus.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Oh I didn't know it compressed it, there fixed with minus.
Oh hell yeah! I can really tell, particularly the edges of Twilight and Sunrise! Thanks, I was sort of just teasing you but this is like the feeling when you get a splinter out <3
 
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