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Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
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Jest Chillin
Member
What part am I misconstruing?
Edit: Also, keep in mind that Hawkian's original reply to my first post ended a bit differently.
Upcoming Gem Store items:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1euooo/upcoming_gemstore_items_may_edition/
Colin on Precursor acquisition:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/New-Legendaries-Rework/first#post2074359
Also, API integration on the wiki to check if CoF and CoE are open is coming later this week.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1euooo/upcoming_gemstore_items_may_edition/
Colin on Precursor acquisition:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/New-Legendaries-Rework/first#post2074359
Also, API integration on the wiki to check if CoF and CoE are open is coming later this week.
There we go; swim wear. Increased stack sizes will be nice as well but the price needs to be seen first. I wouldn't be surprised if it still changes you into underwear at that one section of Pearl Islet.
But anyway, do the different tiered bounties give different amounts of commendations?
But anyway, do the different tiered bounties give different amounts of commendations?
No.
Wouldn't hurt to queue up more T1 bounties and just have em stashed away for times like this then. Issue is finding a slot for it with everything else that needs to go through there.
In addition to that, we get a sizable influence return doing it and it's only one target for the entire group to worry about.
WTB Asuran technology to add additional guild build slots.
In addition to that, we get a sizable influence return doing it and it's only one target for the entire group to worry about.
WTB Asuran technology to add additional guild build slots.
Weltall Zero
Member
There's no need to put a positive spin; earlier failures only sweeten the eventual victory. I could see reason to complain if you attended an event that ultimately failed (and that does happen). Of course, if you expect the entire game to be in farm mode, I can understand; but I myself want my games to present challenge. Certainty of victory makes the entire event a boring formality in my opinion.
1) I think you're reading too much into Hawkian's response; he is merely stating a fact. The more people that attend the event, especially off-hours ones (which are held primarily for people to get commendations), the higher the chance of success. Now, failure is no tragedy, as I mentioned, so it's ok. But I don't think anyone can deny that people not participating in anticipation of failure is a pretty obvious self-fulfilling prophecy.
2) Events aren't mandatory, and neither Hawkian nor I would ask or expect you to abandon WvW, or, say, an instance run, to attend them, at all. However, as Hawkian himself already said, just leave it at that; don't go on to say that you didn't join because they would fail, because that IS a pretty poor (and self-realizing!) excuse, when you don't even need an excuse in the first place!
3) You say that event failures are due to people not listening. In my experience, GAFers have been really coordinated and fast-learning in pretty much all events we've run (the first time we did gallery, for example, was awesome). By far the larger factor was needing more people on some events sometimes (mostly bounty hunts during makeups). But even if you were right about that, again, this is not a raiding guild. We do this for fun, and people put into it as little or as much as they want, and that is fine; the beauty of GW2 in general, and guild events by extension, is that any warm body is a strict plus to the chance of completing it.
4) Finally, I don't think Hythloday's post should be seen, as I have a feeling you do, as guilt-tripping people into participating; it's purpose as I understand it is encouraging new people to try them out. I think most people missing on them are ones that haven't done them yet, either from lack of information or outright shyness, because, frankly, I can't imagine anyone that has experienced them, especially puzzles and rushes, not to jump onto the chance every time they're up, even if no rewards were involved.
Complistic
Member
Yesss, so excited for the avenue for precursors. I don't care how long it is. I just want something to work towards instead of the nightly sacrifice to the RNG gods.
Jest Chillin
Member
For the primary Guild Missions, the bolded rings true. But when it's the 2nd or 3rd makeup that you're volunteering to help for in a week, failures begin to get tedious. I don't think that the Guild Missions should be "farm mode" at all. However with the time we've spent with most of these, they shouldn't give as much trouble as they sometimes do.
1) I think you're reading too much into Hawkian's response; he is merely stating a fact. The more people that attend the event, especially off-hours ones (which are held primarily for people to get commendations), the higher the chance of success. Now, failure is no tragedy, as I mentioned, so it's ok. But I don't think anyone can deny that people not participating in anticipation of failure is a pretty obvious self-fulfilling prophecy.
2) Events aren't mandatory, and neither Hawkian nor I would ask or expect you to abandon WvW, or, say, an instance run, to attend them, at all. However, as Hawkian himself already said, just leave it at that; don't go on to say that you didn't join because they would fail, because that IS a pretty poor (and self-realizing!) excuse, when you don't even need an excuse in the first place!
3) You say that event failures are due to people not listening. In my experience, GAFers have been really coordinated and fast-learning in pretty much all events we've run (the first time we did gallery, for example, was awesome). By far the larger factor was needing more people on some events sometimes (mostly bounty hunts during makeups). But even if you were right about that, again, this is not a raiding guild. We do this for fun, and people put into it as little or as much as they want, and that is fine; the beauty of GW2 in general, and guild events by extension, is that any warm body is a strict plus to the chance of completing it.
4) Finally, I don't think Hythloday's post should be seen, as I have a feeling you do, as guilt-tripping people into participating; it's purpose as I understand it is encouraging new people to try them out. I think most people missing on them are ones that haven't done them yet, either from lack of information or outright shyness, because, frankly, I can't imagine anyone that has experienced them, especially puzzles and rushes, not to jump onto the chance every time they're up, even if no rewards were involved.
1) If people are missing because of anticipation of failure, wouldn't the prudent thing be to find out why people anticipate failure? In this particular case I'm the only one even talking about it so it can safely be ignored. But if you're going to address it, why go straight to denying and placing blame on the person expressing concerns?
2) Events not being mandatory has nothing to do with it. There was discussion about lack of attendance and I offered my perception. Like I said above, if I'm the only one who feels that way then move on. If not, it's something that could be addressed. Any member of the Guild should be free to post their opinions.
3) I never said I expected a strict raiding guild or anything of the sort. On Primary days, when the bulk of the Guild is getting their comms and we're getting Merits, there's a lot of leeway. But for make ups there's less people on and less attendance. So I would think that those who are attending would be a bit more focused on getting it done with minimal failures. It doesn't require anything strict. Just show up on Mumble and listen to the instructions. I don't think that stuff like "stop attacking so we can time the CC correctly" (as an example) is really too much to ask of anyone regardless of how casual the guild is. On Primary days, it's a minor setback. On the 2nd and 3rd make up day of the week on the other hand...
4) I had absolutely no issues with Hythlo's post or her direct reply to me at all. Hythlo replied to what she thought was relevant and left the rest alone. Hawkian tried to tell me that what I see happening isn't happening and (paraphrasing his pre-edit post here) "if everyone thought like you, there would be even worse attendance." Considering I've only chosen to miss one make up event ever, yeah I take offense to it.
I made those posts in the interest of problem solving. I put it out there to be considered. That was all.
Jest, I'm really sorry if you feel like you're under attack or I'm trying to guilt you or something. Particularly with regard to "trying to paint you as selfish," employing "low tactics" or implying that your concerns don't exist. I absolutely didn't mean to do those things and it is highly likely that you're misinterpreting me. It's also definitely possible that I don't understand or am missing some of your concerns or suggestions in my reading of what you said.
Also please take me at my word when I say that despite using the word "you" in replying to you I am not only responding to you individually, but to anyone you feels the same way- and I don't think there's any chance at all that you're the only one. That is actually precisely what I'm getting at.
What Seda likely meant by it being a non-issue is that you're misconstruing me if you think I'm saying anything other than the following: come to guild challenge makeups if you want to help out, and don't come if you don't! It never has to be more complicated than that. That's the kind of guild we want to try and run, long-term, where people can just do what they want, while getting the benefits of a structured, large-scale guild.
If you don't want to attend cause you're doing something else and busy or don't have time or don't feel like doing the sort of content in question, of course that's fine- that's how we want this to work. I'd like for people to be able to make up their comms from fellow guildies being willing to help out simply because they want to and not because they are required to and generally speaking we have been pretty successful so far!
If you do want to attend, but choose not to because you expect us to fail, then it becomes self-fulfilling. The more people that feel that way, the fewer people we have to help- even though them coming could have made the difference we needed! Sometimes an extra party is a huge factor between victory and defeat. So we are asking everyone who does want to help to come through!
That's really it. I'm trying my absolute hardest to be accomodating of all playstyles as well as making the guild experience rewarding. I'm not sure what concerns I may not have addressed, or if you were implying we should do something, but rest assured I am working on a substantial post with regard to how we can improve guild challenge makeups.
Thanks to everyone who came out to help with Puzzle and Bounties tonight!
Looks like 12 is the magic number for Langmar Estate, and Proxemics can be done with fewer.
Holy hell, Yanonka is an asshat.
edit: Everything in Weltall's post echoes my exact feeling- and this:
"If everyone thought like you, there would be even worse attendance." This is just a simple fact, right? It isn't an observation meant to offend you.
You mention that your goal is problem solving but the biggest issue is that I can't recognize at all what you're proposing. :-/
Anyway, I apologize once again for appearing to call you out or attack you personally.
Also please take me at my word when I say that despite using the word "you" in replying to you I am not only responding to you individually, but to anyone you feels the same way- and I don't think there's any chance at all that you're the only one. That is actually precisely what I'm getting at.
What Seda likely meant by it being a non-issue is that you're misconstruing me if you think I'm saying anything other than the following: come to guild challenge makeups if you want to help out, and don't come if you don't! It never has to be more complicated than that. That's the kind of guild we want to try and run, long-term, where people can just do what they want, while getting the benefits of a structured, large-scale guild.
If you don't want to attend cause you're doing something else and busy or don't have time or don't feel like doing the sort of content in question, of course that's fine- that's how we want this to work. I'd like for people to be able to make up their comms from fellow guildies being willing to help out simply because they want to and not because they are required to and generally speaking we have been pretty successful so far!
If you do want to attend, but choose not to because you expect us to fail, then it becomes self-fulfilling. The more people that feel that way, the fewer people we have to help- even though them coming could have made the difference we needed! Sometimes an extra party is a huge factor between victory and defeat. So we are asking everyone who does want to help to come through!
That's really it. I'm trying my absolute hardest to be accomodating of all playstyles as well as making the guild experience rewarding. I'm not sure what concerns I may not have addressed, or if you were implying we should do something, but rest assured I am working on a substantial post with regard to how we can improve guild challenge makeups.
Thanks to everyone who came out to help with Puzzle and Bounties tonight!
Looks like 12 is the magic number for Langmar Estate, and Proxemics can be done with fewer.
Holy hell, Yanonka is an asshat.
edit: Everything in Weltall's post echoes my exact feeling- and this:
is about as much of a verbal punch to the gut as I can imagine on this topic. With regard to what I'm trying to say versus your interpretation, I cannot see how the two could possibly differ more. Not only am I not saying that it isn't happening, I am outright assuming it is happening, and with no way to gauge the degree to which it is happening, I hope to enact a few changes to make all of it a little more structured and provide clearer expectations.
"If everyone thought like you, there would be even worse attendance." This is just a simple fact, right? It isn't an observation meant to offend you.
You mention that your goal is problem solving but the biggest issue is that I can't recognize at all what you're proposing. :-/
Anyway, I apologize once again for appearing to call you out or attack you personally.
Just as a heads up, that Nivek guy who tagged along on all of our Guild Puzzles tonight sent me a mail a few minutes after, very politely asking to apply to our guild. Hawkian and I invited him on the spot, he was really helpful despite knowing he wouldn't be getting any comms or loot. He also stayed behind to help people who fell behind, and ended up not getting any reward in the process.
So yeah, if you see Nivek Quen (Delightful Monkey) on, say hello. Nice to know people want to join up with us.
So yeah, if you see Nivek Quen (Delightful Monkey) on, say hello. Nice to know people want to join up with us.
Complistic
Member
but he may learn all our secrets :x
hockeypuck
Member
Yea, that mofo is never pleased at all. Recently I got a brief glimpse of what gambling addicts must feel when I offered Zommoros many exquisite exotic staves. I was slightly nervous. I should've /bow and /kneel before going up those steps. Mark my words, I'll never buy another exotic staff off the TP not named The Legend. Ohhhh, remembering all that gold lost is making my eyes water again...
He's my hero.
Black-Wind
Member
*Sigh
I can never keep track of when you all do guild stuff. I just stopped trying to stay up to date on this stuff at this point :/
I can never keep track of when you all do guild stuff. I just stopped trying to stay up to date on this stuff at this point :/
Those are all Mystic Forge recipes, or recipes that don't have all of their ingredients out and are being prepared for future content?
MF recipes is my assumption.
Jest Chillin
Member
Check your PM Hawkian.
I'm more interested in seeing what Canach ends up doing to his golem. We know that his golem will be called NULL and we'll fight him, but what kind of fight will it be?
Kos Luftar
Member
What do you guys think about next month's updates?
Will it all have to do with Dragon Festival or will the Dragon Festival be like the April Fools thing and still have separate June updates?
Will it all have to do with Dragon Festival or will the Dragon Festival be like the April Fools thing and still have separate June updates?
Well, I think that we've definitely shifted to a two-week update system rather than a monthly one. I think that the update after Last Stand will be the Dragon Festival, and then they'll either expand upon it in the update after that or lead into a new arc. Either way, they seemed to imply that the Dragon Festival would be taking place on Southsun, but I may have totally misconstrued that. If it is on Southsun, that'd be a neat finale to this arc.
Hmm, still not sure why they gave him the gauntlets.
Weltall Zero
Member
That's pretty awesome.
This reminds me that I partyed up for a bit with a GAFer on Southsun that was in the guild but not represeting because he was in a real-life friend guild. I was tempted to ask him if there were many of them (didn't seem like it, from what I collected), and whether he would consider vouching for them, but ended up not doing so, as I'm not sure to what extent vouching for and getting friends in the guild is a thing at all?
It is certainly welcomed.That's pretty awesome.
This reminds me that I partyed up for a bit with a GAFer on Southsun that was in the guild but not represeting because he was in a real-life friend guild. I was tempted to ask him if there were many of them (didn't seem like it, from what I collected), and whether he would consider vouching for them, but ended up not doing so, as I'm not sure to what extent vouching for and getting friends in the guild is a thing at all?
Canach soloed the Molten Alliance Weapon facility guys. We are in trouble
Weltall Zero
Member
It seems to me that you are guilt-tripping yourself; you feel a sense of obligation to help out during the guild missions, and you've, understandably, ended up burned out. I'd say that the best advice for you would be the opposite; do LESS guild missions; particularly, do them only when you want to, not to help people, but to have fun.
I completely understand feeling forced to do something for the "good of all" in an online RPG, but even though one tends to rationalize it as a good deed, it's actually poison for fun, which is, please let's not forget it, the entire purpose of a game. This, along with its brothers "loot treadmill" and "grinding", is unneeded baggage from less refined MMOs that we should shed as soon as possible.
I think your issue with Hawkian's post is that you're projecting that sense of obligation, and if you've been doing them most or all of the time because of it, then obviously they can hardly be anything to look forward to anymore. The solution, as I mentioned, is simple; don't "default" into coming to do them; do them only when you want to, for yourself. Again, Hawkian didn't fault you for not coming, but for the negative, slippery-slope attitude.
There's also the problem you mention about people not listening to Mumble, etc. but there's little the guild leadership can (nor, in my opinion, should) do about this, at least at this point. If you think otherwise, then by all means suggest solutions to the problem; you're part of this guild as much as them.
For example, I do have a personal concern about guild missions, which is the long time they take to organize people. On a particularly bad day a few weeks ago, it took about one hour and twenty minutes to set up the parties, etc.; this seems frankly way too much, especially for a twenty minutes guild mission, and understandably, people got pissed and left. The key problem here is that people kept coming online on a steady flow after the appointed hour, requiring party rearranging that extended into more people coming online, etc. Particularly, this is the one reason that's put the biggest dampener on my enthusiasm when doing guild missions.
But I also propose a solution, which is that a deadline hour should be given so that everyone who's not online by that hour (and not one minute later), regrettably enough, can't participate. Without a deadline, people are actually encouraged to show up late, so they miss the organization downtime; this is, of course, another slippery slope. Setting a hard deadline might seem like less people will participate and most likely this will be so at first, but once people realize they a) have to show up at the appropriate hour or they're out, and b) guild missions are actually done much more quickly, turnover should improve.
That said, I do realize the solution is a drastic change, and will understand if the guild leadership decides against it.
However, you shouldn't, as your attendance records have nothing to do with his point, which, furthermore, is a tautology; "if everyone skipped guild missions [because they thought we would fail], then nobody would show up". Again, I think the issue is that you're forcing yourself to attend when you don't intrinsically want, as the very fact you wear that as a badge demonstrates.
This is a guild founded on the "fun foremost" principle. That is the reason monetary financement of the guild is not done via a mandatory tribute (as many guilds do, and WoW streamlines into the game itself), nor even through donations (which, again, might guild-trip people) but via a voluntary lottery. Every aspect of this guild, mirroring Guild Wars 2 itself, is designed to appeal not to charity or sense of duty, but fun.
Weltall Zero
Member
Yeah, I'm all for letting the matter rest for some time, perhaps I should not have made that last post. :/
That would be the best, but the problem is that they can't launch them until everyone's in parties, and if someone comes online when they're still making the parties, it's hard to turn them down, so they end up reshuffling the parties, during which someone else comes online...
Really, the problem at the core is how the game limits parties to five members currently; this is one of the limitations I wish gone as soon as possible, alongside the 500 member cap on guilds.
Well, it also confirms that he wasn't the one that sparked the molten alliance.
It'll be interesting to see if Noll was the one.
Jest Chillin
Member
No. And that's just silly to suggest.
Also no. I'll add that trying to guess another person's motivations is just a really bad idea all around.
You're really just making assumptions all throughout your post and then suggesting solutions based on those assumptions but being that the assumptions aren't accurate, it's all just unnecessary.
Kos Luftar
Member
So many huge posts.
I know all you guys and if you actually talked about this stuff on mumble or in person, there would be no issue whatsoever, but when you are typing this long ass posts it just looks so unnecessary and dumb.
Hope I get some time to play tonight.
I know all you guys and if you actually talked about this stuff on mumble or in person, there would be no issue whatsoever, but when you are typing this long ass posts it just looks so unnecessary and dumb.
Hope I get some time to play tonight.
Psychoward
Banned
So is there any room left for friends to join? Someone I know applied for a GAF membership but it's not likely he'll get accepted any time soon and just bought the game.
What you can do for them is leave their accountname.#### or one of their character names and whoever is currently online/will be online later can catch the invite. When it happens, remind them to click "Represent" after accepting the invite or it'll be very quiet.
Remember to have them sign up for a gafguild.com account too!
theMrCravens
Member
Hmmm.
Final Fantasy XIV coming out when GW2 is a year old.
Going to be a crazy month.
Final Fantasy XIV coming out when GW2 is a year old.
Going to be a crazy month.
Weltall Zero
Member
Yep, you're right.
I tried to mediate between Hawkian and Jes but I don't think I helped at all, so I'll quietly shuffle back.I know almost all of the guild rushes well enough to guide/help people through reliably, and it's great that it doesn't require guild completion.
Challenge is of course a crapshoot, but we'll do our best. We'll rejigger our expectationg for these as sometimes on a given day we'll just try and fail, and that's okay. We'll get better at them collectively over time. Members still lacking comms for any mission type by the last try before weekly reset are encouraged to seek out public guild missions.
A couple notes (the first of a few structural changes being made for challenge attempts): we will try two (2) times before calling it a day, and the first attempt will be launched by 7:00PM at the latest.
Please come and help out if you can!
Challenge is of course a crapshoot, but we'll do our best. We'll rejigger our expectationg for these as sometimes on a given day we'll just try and fail, and that's okay. We'll get better at them collectively over time. Members still lacking comms for any mission type by the last try before weekly reset are encouraged to seek out public guild missions.
A couple notes (the first of a few structural changes being made for challenge attempts): we will try two (2) times before calling it a day, and the first attempt will be launched by 7:00PM at the latest.
Please come and help out if you can!
So this Saturday stuff now starts at 9 EST instead right? Confirming because I'm trying to plan around getting at least some of the commendations since at work during the make-ups due to my time zone anyway.
Yeah, for a guild moderator I'm not very good at these things because of having to keep time zones in mind. Also trying to make sure I'm looking at that bar thing correctly.
Yeah, for a guild moderator I'm not very good at these things because of having to keep time zones in mind. Also trying to make sure I'm looking at that bar thing correctly.
Complistic
Member
17 person guild challenge completed!
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