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Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks

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Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
No one else in gaming, nevermind MMOs, is putting this level of content out on a consistent basis. No one. That deserves recognition, and I think it's getting it.

I don't think Potato's problem here is the content, but the fact that it's temporary and just feeds you with uninteresting sidestory bits, and as such useless in comparison to an actual, permanent addon that would effectively widen the world, split the audience to different places and add interesting story for the long run.
Which the current updates aren't, at all.

If all of the updates' content would actually STAY in the game, then yes, it would be incredibly awesome. As it is now, the moment you get into the game there is one singly tiny (in comparison) new bit to explore, doesn't matter if you check in today or in 3 months. And you honestly can't tell me you're actually caring for the "living story" as it is. I just refuse to believe that. It's like a bad monster-of-the-week cartoon.
 

Jira

Member
Guild Wars 2 is the only mmorpg I've ever capped on. And I have 2 alts that are darn close to max. Really wouldn't call it a grind at all.

Yeah actually GW2 is only the second MMO I've capped on myself even though I've played every one you can name. GW2 gives you so many ways to level and is so streamlined that associating the word grind with it is just silly. If you want an actual grind in the true sense of the word, go play EQ1, FFXI, or Lineage 2. In FFXI you sat there for 8+ hours after waiting 1+ for a group to pull to a camp while autoattacking and occasionally hitting a skill every minute just to gain a single level. No kids that wasn't hyperbole either. You better also hope you didn't die or you'd lose what was it 10-15% of your level each time and could de-level. Oh and if you wanted advanced jobs you have to level up 2 different jobs to even unlock the advanced one then level up the advanced one to the cap. Yeeeeeeeah.
 

Trey

Member
He is right about the presentation of the Living Story. I just couldn't give a shit about any thing that's going on. I would say the problem even extends to the personal story in that I am only vaguely aware of what's happening. It's really difficult to present a story in an MMO, doubly so in the "experience how you wish" fashion Arenanet has adopted. Which is okay with me because the gameplay freedom and content is aces so I couldn't care less if the story can't properly support itself.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
He says one of his big problems is that ArenaNet "can't really market the Living Story stuff, they can't put a massive marketing budget behind some small two week update that's coming out . . . in the way you properly market an expansion."
That point is actually inadvertently valid, and kind of because of the rest of what you said. ArenaNet has never really relied on giant marketing pushes in the vein of other AAA releases (I'm thinking now of Skyrim, WoW Expansions, and COD/other high-profile shooters). It's not really their strong suit. They prefer vastly to give a bunch of press sources the keys to the kingdom on a limited basis and have them post impressions across the net (which is of course a form of word-of-mouth, as you said). This is particularly well-paired with the rapid-fire release style they're embracing.

But it's true that ArenaNet can't properly market the Living Story as an entity in the way that you'd market a boxed expansion. In the example you gave of a tagline they could use- "We're giving you an entire expansion for free"- would be well-placed in an effusive press release, but not really appropropriate in the marketing and promotion of any particular update, because of course it won't be true for any particular individual release.

So he's right in that there simply can't be the sort of massive promotional thrust that would accompany a boxed expansion. But he's neglecting two things which I think are key aspects of this strategy:
1) You can still employ a variable marketing budget with more or less promotion surrounding releases. Some releases are just going to be bigger and have more stuff. It's hard to imagine right now but when it comes to the point where a release adds new skills or a new profession to the game, for free, it will be a huge deal both for gamers and from a marketing perspective.
2) The logic behind a giant marketing push for a new boxed expansion is completely tied to return on investment... they're trying to sell you something new. That's simply not the case for living story releases. There's no paying for any individual bits of it, you just get it all. So while of course they want to attract new players and sell more copies, they need only sell you on the idea, not any particular piece of content, because the latter isn't what you're paying for.
Reknoc said:
Guild Wars 2 is the only mmorpg I've ever capped on. And I have 2 alts that are darn close to max. Really wouldn't call it a grind at all.
It's the only game besides GW1 where I've got more than one character to cap, and I have 3!
 

Lunar15

Member
My overall take on the living story is basically this:

It's an astounding amount of free content on top of a game that already had a lot of content. I've certainly never seen anything like it in any game before, but I also haven't played any other MMO's. It does deserve recognition and praise in that respect

However, Living Story does lack impact. It lacks impact on lore, impact on the world, and most importantly, impact on the player base. I don't actually mind temporary content, in fact, I think it's a neat concept. But the problem is that sometimes the morsels we get are so small that they're ineffectual. What's the point behind 2 week updates when so few of them actually stick with you. Story-wise, they have all been entirely disappointing, in my opinion. Sure, there are links between the arcs, but everything is so sparse and borderline trivial.

Take a look at new skins. I've personally thought they're all neat. But when the progression of an event is aimed towards those new skins or armor, it becomes everyone chasing that one new set. If everyone's going after the same set, it kind of ruins fun of saying "oh boy, which set do I want to go after? Which one's right for me?" Yes, I know that there's all the existing armor sets that people can go after, but when the focus of each update is merely one set that is temporary, it basically goads a large portion of the player base into getting that one set.

The entire system is experimental, I understand. I've also enjoyed several updates, particularly this newest one. But I also completely understand the complaints being thrown at the Living Story as a game defining concept. At times it is confusing as to what they intend to do with it, or if they intended to use it from the get go. And like I said, it tends to lack the impact people would otherwise expect from an update.
 

Ghost23

Member
No one really does the Arah dungeon, but I need two pieces of that dungeon's armor set. Will you guys be willing to help me out this next week or so? Is it really not that popular?
 

Trey

Member
No one really does the Arah dungeon, but I need two pieces of that dungeon's armor set. Will you guys be willing to help me out this next week or so? Is it really not that popular?

I'll run Arah. Never done it before, and I want some armor pieces from that dungeon for my warrior.
 
I think ANET should make content for people who are playing the game all the time and not worry about people who take breaks because they are bored.

If you are bored a small update is not going to make you come back even if it does you will just complain about how you missed stuff.

They are adding the dungeons to fractals but seems like some people want everything to stick around. Every interaction with a npc, every story instance so that they can try it whenever they find time to play. That just doesn't sound like a "living story".

Difficult enough to please the ones that play a lot let alone the ones that keep taking breaks.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Arah is a great dungeon. It's not popular because it's long and difficult, and people like easy rewards :)

Paths 2 and 3 can be done in relatively short times once you get them down.
I don't think Potato's problem here is the content, but the fact that it's temporary and just feeds you with uninteresting sidestory bits, and as such useless in comparison to an actual, permanent addon that would effectively widen the world, split the audience to different places and add interesting story for the long run.
Which the current updates aren't, at all.

If all of the updates' content would actually STAY in the game, then yes, it would be incredibly awesome. As it is now, the moment you get into the game there is one singly tiny (in comparison) new bit to explore, doesn't matter if you check in today or in 3 months. And you honestly can't tell me you're actually caring for the "living story" as it is. I just refuse to believe that. It's like a bad monster-of-the-week cartoon.
Retro was addressing his complaints about the potential marketing of Living Story, which he did make. WoodenPotatoes likes the LS content itself a lot.

I agree to some extent with his complains about permanence and wholeheartedly with his complaints about the delivery systems within the game's presentation.

As far as the story... overall I thought (eesh, I actually still haven't technically beaten it in full disclosure) the Personal Story was absymal. I liked the initial aspects where your choices clearly defined your path, and I liked Tybalt. Other than that it was just awful for me in terms of plot and characterization, and the way the story was delivered (in those flat conversation panel cutscenes) just really didn't work for me at all with a small number of exceptions. Too tempting to skip.

The Living Story has been a step up from my perspective in this regard. I liked the storytelling methods much more. I liked getting to know Braham and Rox, and asking questions about the Molten Alliance, and I loved the cutscene with Marjory and Logan and the initial instance where Ashford was murdered. But, nothing has been answered or concluded in a satisfactory way about any of it. They have a long way to go in terms of getting people to care from a narrative perspective.
 

Lunar15

Member
Addendum: Those that are saying that temporary updates are bad at getting people interested, however, are pretty wrong. I actually point to this thread as a testament to that. Each time there's a substantial update, we get two or three new people that are interested in trying this game out, and it's not even an F2P title. There is actual marketing power behind each of these updates, and it manifests in ways that I don't think some people realize.

EDIT: Just finished listening to WP's video. His worries match mine. It's a "I like this... but unsure of where it's going", position. His marketing complaints are weird, because I actually think LS works very well in this respect, and I say this as someone who works in marketing.

Honestly, I just have no idea how to take living story. I will say that it *has* been ramping up. I just wish presentation and delivery was a little better, which WP does note as well. I wish some updated things were actually hidden, with enough hidden updates that people find, it gives high priority to exploring the whole world to find stuff.
 

Dunlop

Member
Would you mind elucidating your experience that you found so grindy?

I remember being blown away in the Beta for the game, but I kept swapping out toons to try them all.

Once I started levelling when the game went live the experience wore on me by level 20, combined with the absolutely horrible implementation of dungeons (run into new boss like lemming and keep respawning)

Fractals seem to have fixed the dungeons at least
 

Levyne

Banned
I remember being blown away in the Beta for the game, but I kept swapping out toons to try them all.

Once I started levelling when the game went live the experience wore on me by level 20, combined with the absolutely horrible implementation of dungeons (run into new boss like lemming and keep respawning)

Fractals seem to have fixed the dungeons at least

Not even an option anymore.
 

Jira

Member
For me there's literally a handful of studios in gaming who have told an actual story worth mentioning in the history of the medium. With the way some people get up on story in games you'd think we have stories like Bioshock or Last of Us coming out every month from multiple developers when the fact is those games are the 1% unicorns of the industry.

With the Living Story it is undoubtedly much better than the Personal Story as there's at least things being setup and leaves you asking questions rather than simply not caring. The LS is far more engaging at this point with actual hooks that feed into a central plot. At this point it's still very much setting up the characters and the story to lead into something else. The LS themes and content are very much like a TV show back before DVR existed. Either you were there and you saw it or you weren't.

At any point if you start playing again you will always have something new to do. So as you keep playing every two weeks you get something new to do as well. The system is setup so that the people who play all the time have something new to do and the people who come back do as well and continue to do so as long as they're playing. While it does suck for people coming back since they missed out on content for when they didn't play, there's also the entire aspect of cosmetic prestige which this game is completely built around. If Bob could come back after 6 months and get this awesome skin from January it would lose its inherent value. The system rewards those who continually play which makes sense. All Bob has to do is keep playing too and he won't miss out on anything. This is effectively their "subscription" where they put out content so frequently that you just don't stop playing. It's quite genius combined with their business model. You can stop at anytime and it won't make your character any worse, you just won't have the cosmetics, titles, stories, or experiences compared to those who kept playing. The entire idea is that you can say yeah I was there when such and such happened, you have the stories and cosmetics to show for it. It's a lot like being somewhere in real life before everyone had a camera in their pocket. It's a Living World from a narrative, update, and content design standpoint.

It really shouldn't surprise anyone who has played GW2 that their update model isn't what people have been used to experiencing. From their business model, their update model, and the game itself, they're doing something different from everyone else rather than just going with the easy "me too". They are trying something very different for the modern MMO and even the industry as a whole. The only thing even remotely comparable to what ANet is doing was with Asheron's Call one month updates, but what they did for their updates pales in comparison to ANet's and we get them every two weeks.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
I remember being blown away in the Beta for the game, but I kept swapping out toons to try them all.

Once I started levelling when the game went live the experience wore on me by level 20, combined with the absolutely horrible implementation of dungeons (run into new boss like lemming and keep respawning)
Hah, res-rushing bosses like that has been mechanically eliminated.

What level did you get to? The first dungeon you can feasibly run is at 30. It was made (kinda laughably) easier a couple of months ago, incidentally.

You ought to try running some dungeons with a good GAF group. It's an awesome source of XP.
Fractals seem to have fixed the dungeons at least
Fractals are definitely different from the explorable dungeons and have great rewards. Worth getting a character to tier 2 (Fractal level 10) at the least.
Addendum: Those that are saying that temporary updates are bad at getting people interested, however, are pretty wrong. I actually point to this thread as a testament to that. Each time there's a substantial update, we get two or three new people that are interested in trying this game out, and it's not even an F2P title. There is actual marketing power behind each of these updates, and it manifests in ways that I don't think some people realize.

EDIT: Just finished listening to WP's video. His worries match mine. It's a "I like this... but unsure of where it's going", position. His marketing complaints are weird, because I actually think LS works very well in this respect, and I say this as someone who works in marketing.
Hah, me too. Sort of struck me that WP does not ;)
 

Dunlop

Member
What level did you get to? The first dungeon you can feasibly run is at 30. It was made (kinda laughably) easier a couple of months ago, incidentally.

This was when the game launched, hit 80 and walked away. My mindset might have been tainted in that I always play healers and love the trinity :p

Gone through the guantlet of F2P games and will give it another go. Bazaar seems fun so far
 

Lunar15

Member
Hah, me too. Sort of struck me that WP does not ;)

It's mainly that it doesn't matter if you have a huge expansion to tie a large marketing push to. Marketing pushes are usually tied to quarters. Anet could start the fall with a huge, traditional marketing push saying "Look at all we've added, look at what we're doing, and here's a look at what we're doing in the future".

And technically, they've already been doing this. They've been very prolific lately, showing up in a lot of interviews and sending out PR blasts to all the big sites. The difference is that they can constantly talk about what's changing, as opposed to just waiting for one big changelog to talk up. Also, constant updates also generate a steady stream of word of mouth.

I do agree with WP on the nature of the story, though.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Q4 2013 is gonna have to be pretty massive from NCSoft's perspective... I'm psyched. I wonder how far along the Asiatic launch is, too.
 

Levyne

Banned
Edit: Dumb post, nevermind.

As soon as we see some portion of typical expansion content in a Living Story update, the quicker peoples fears about that method of content delivery can be relieved. When this method allows us to see a new class, race, permanent dungeon, set of zones, gvg, halls, etc, something, then we know of the capability to use Living Story to deliver what people would expect from a boxed expansion that people right now may be worried may never come.
 

Jira

Member
I think the sooner they can say "In 1month we are introducing the KODAN RACE and RITUALISTS, along with FIVE-TEN NEW ZONES", the sooner people's fears will go away..

Man I hope an update of that magnitude happens at some point.

This is something that I think some people seem to think that because they're not doing a boxed expansion means they can't put in a new class, region. weapon types, etc. This simply isn't the case at all. They're going to do these things, just not in one lump sum. At some point you will just seem them randomly patch in some new weapon types or even a new class. The way the team works is the Living Story team develops for the short term while the other (MUCH larger) portion of the team works on permanent features and larger forms of content updates. The idea is the LS team solves the issue other MMOs have where you get through content then you wait for months to do anything new. So every two weeks the LS team has something new and if the long-term team has a new feature or content type ready to go they push it with the next LS update. This allows for teams to not feel rushed like okay PvP team March is your month you better have all your stuff ready regardless of quality, instead it's released when it's ready alongside the next two week update.

There are things coming this year that you guys are going to LOVE. I wanted to expand on a few more things in my post but I don't have the time. My Mom is in the hospital right now, going to have her galbladder taken out tomorrow or Friday.
 

Levyne

Banned
Eh. It's just hard to be confident about that when we haven't seen anything near that magnitude yet. Talking about hypothetical possibilities of LS doesn't change the fact that a lot of the stuff in them so far has been...diversionary?

I don't want to give the wrong impression. BotFW has been amazing fun.

What I am saying is that as soon as we see the FIRST class, race, significant permanent addition (a JP isn't really that..), then we can be more confident going forward.
 

Retro

Member
And you honestly can't tell me you're actually caring for the "living story" as it is. I just refuse to believe that. It's like a bad monster-of-the-week cartoon.

Refuse to believe all you want, I like the way they've done it so far and they're obviously ramping towards something. For example, someone is pulling the strings through the whole Living Story so far.

- The Dredge Prisoner after Flame and Frost mentions the Molten Alliance was formed by a "fast-talking friend from the city", a " lying silver-tongued, snake-nosed trickster".

- During the Investigation storyline during Dragon Bash, a mysterious character going by the name "E" was directing players, but that person's identity has never been revealed. Marjory and Kasmeer seem to have worked with "E" before, Kasmeer even refers to E as a Him ("Mister E"), though that could be a play on "Mystery". It's also not Ellen Kiel, since the mail explicitly states "I'd intervene myself, but circumstances prevent it", and Ellen is definitely involved directly.

- Just before fighting Mai Trin, she mentions that "Scarlet's gonna have my noggin for screwing up", but we never see or hear about Scarlet again.​

Is it perfect? No. Could they do better? Sure. But I do like what we've had, and despite the seemingly disconnected nature of the story so far, it seems obvious that they're building towards something. Both because the threads are there and because we know they've mapped out the plotline for at least the rest of the year. I happen to like stories that aren't just superficial exposition. I like having to dig deep and find things out for myself, something Wooden Potatoes himself touches on when discussing Lost; it's more fun to speculate and guess what's going on than have thing spelled out.

Remember, the assassination of an Austrian archduke and his wife by a Bosnian Serb separatist lead to the greatest, more horrific war this world has ever known. Big things have small beginnings when you look back; the fact that we're seeing things unfold one small step at a time doesn't mean it's not all part of a bigger problem.

So while it may look like a random "Monster of the Week" to those who are just running through it, for those who read the text, do the side missions and pay attention to what people are saying, there's more going on than that.

For example, just this morning, we saw a pack of Aetherblade Pirates attacking the Zephyr Sanctum. That's not an event mentioned on the Wiki. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Ellen Kiel and Magus were talking (loudly) about the Bazaar, since Evon Gnashblade was just down the stairs talking to himself about it as well... and who was sitting in a cage at the bottom of those steps but an Aetherblade Pirate Captain?

The plot thickens...

I wanted to expand on a few more things in my post but I don't have the time. My Mom is in the hospital right now, going to have her galbladder taken out tomorrow or Friday.

We've been talking on steam a bit, but I did want to say in case it wasn't clear that Meg and I are both thinking of you guys. Let us know if there's anything we can do, even if it's just being around on steam or whatever to talk.
 

Levyne

Banned
Remember, the assassination of an Austrian archduke and his wife by a Bosnian Serb separatist lead to the greatest, more horrific war this world has ever known. Big things have small beginnings when you look back; the fact that we're seeing things unfold one small step at a time doesn't mean it's not all part of a bigger problem.

Wat

TadkV.gif


That's our PRetro.

I say that only with kindness.

I mean, I hope you are right but my eyeballs cannot roll back farther.
 

nataku

Member
This is something that I think some people seem to think that because they're not doing a boxed expansion means they can't put in a new class, region. weapon types, etc. This simply isn't the case at all. The way the team works is the Living Story team develops for the short term while the other (MUCH larger) portion of the team works on permanent features and larger forms of content updates. The idea is the LS team solves the issue other MMOs have where you get through content then you wait for months to do anything new. So every two weeks the LS team has something new and if the long-term team has a new feature or content type ready to go they push it with the next LS update. This allows for teams to not feel rushed like okay PvP team March is your month you better have all your stuff ready regardless of quality, instead it's released when it's ready alongside the next two week update.

There are things coming this year that you guys are going to LOVE. I would detail a few more things but I don't have the time. My Mom is in the hospital right now, going to have her galbladder taken out tomorrow or Friday.

People see ANet saying "Maybe no expansions, ever! Only LS!" and then those people take a look at past LS content, realize how much of it no longer exsists, and quickly lose interest. ANet just needs to follow through with their promise of more permanent content going forward. Something more than jumping puzzles, minigames, or updates to old content (dungeons, boss events) and then at the end of the year make a huge deal about everything they've done, for free, through the LS and use that as a marketing point for future LS events and their update schedule overall.

People have zero reason to believe ANet will follow through with significant, permanent content additions because of all the temporary content they've been putting out. People are expecting new zones that move into Elona, Cantha, or some of the other old GW1 territories that we can't get to now. They want new dungeons, fractals, new WvW maps and features. New playable races, new skills or ways to progress your character. Housing, Guild halls. A better story that has impact on the world. Once those start hitting and a decent clip, people will buy in to their new update schedule.

ANet more than likely has a lot of that, if not all of that, in the works or planned. But it's up to them to prove it and provide it going forward. Do that and the doubts will start to disappear. People will realize that getting features and content added as their ready is better overall. Most people just like the idea of an expansion because it guarantees significant content and features.
 

Lunar15

Member
I think I've nailed down my specific problems with the story:

Drama is rooted in clarity. This is a mantra for many writers, and I personally believe in it. People will not be invested in a story unless they know, up front, why they need to be invested. We love heroes with goals, and we tune in each week to see if they'll reach them. Think about a lot of the best shows on television. Even if what happened each week was unclear, you almost always know why you're following the protagonist. You may not know where it's going, but you know why it's going, and that's what keeps you invested 5, 6, 7 years down the line.

All we've been told since launch is that the Dragons are the most important threats in Tyria, above all else. But the living story has decided to focus on other villains, which, while not a bad thing, will always feel secondary to the major threat of the Dragons. It's not a problem that they feel secondary, but rather that they feel disconnected to larger threats within the world. You HAVE to foreshadow larger events, and in a more meaningful way. Then each arc can end in a way that ties each together, and you won't want to miss it.

WP used the analogy of Lost to describe a show that had weekly mysteries that people wanted to see solved. But the power of Lost, at least in the beginning, was the clear goal of "are they going to get off the Island?" But as the goal began to change, and worse, because unclear, that's when people fell out. I think a great example of a long running story with tons of mystery is One Piece. While I know manga isn't everybody's thing, it's a testament to the power of clear protagonist goals that in the 17th year of publication, One Piece is at the highest readership it's ever had.(One of the highest readerships for a comic book ever, might I add!) And that's just a simple goal of finding a stash of treasure! But while each arc may not instantly connect with the overall plot, readers continue to follow them because they know that in some way, they're always moving to an inevitable goal.

And this benefits all aspect of storytelling too. Characters become more fascinating as we slowly see their connection to the overall story. It's clear that Anet has goals with each of the characters we've seen so far. The problem is, we don't have any idea what those goals are, or if those characters are going to be as important as we think they are. We do need some kind of larger arc with some kind of stakes for us to go "man, why did they introduce this person, what role is he going to play?" Sure, many of us might have those feelings already, but they're generally baseless; we have nothing to go off of.

I'm not saying that we need to know the conclusion when we start. Mystery is indeed a key element of drama. But we do need some kind of introduction to the stakes. Something that lets us know beforehand, that yes, this is all tied together, other than simple speculation. Otherwise, it feels like a series of events, which is NOT a story.

Remember, the assassination of an Austrian archduke and his wife by a Bosnian Serb separatist lead to the greatest, more horrific war this world has ever known. Big things have small beginnings when you look back; the fact that we're seeing things unfold one small step at a time doesn't mean it's not all part of a bigger problem.

While that's true, those events were never viewed as part of a story until after the war.
 

TrounceX

Member
No one really does the Arah dungeon, but I need two pieces of that dungeon's armor set. Will you guys be willing to help me out this next week or so? Is it really not that popular?

I will run Arah 3 almost whenever.

I'm also willing to do low level fractals. I know some people were posting about that a couple pages back.

So yeah, add me: Advent.3276
 

Retro

Member
While that's true, those events were never viewed as part of a story until after the war.

That's my point though; until you look back to trace the steps, you can't really tell what connected a major event with the seemingly insignificant. I imagine at some point we will look back and see the connections that lead to whatever they're working towards, and probably realize we should have seen it earlier.

Or not. Who knows.
 

Lunar15

Member
That's my point though; until you look back to trace the steps, you can't really tell what connected a major event with the seemingly insignificant. I imagine at some point we will look back and see the connections that lead to whatever they're working towards, and probably realize we should have seen it earlier.

Or not. Who knows.

I don't disagree that things are connected. I do believe everything is leading to something. But in order to make the bi-weekly content compelling, you have to work some kind of overall vision into the introduction.

And they could very well do this in the future. But until they do, it won't be as compelling as it could be.

There are actually a lot of anti-story elements to GW2, as opposed to GW1. This is a much larger rant for a pretty miniscule problem, so I'll leave it for another time.
 

Taffer

Member
I must remember to park an alt in the new map to see what happens when it goes away.

I'm hoping for an exclusive dialog box!
 

Lunar15

Member
I am fairly certain Labyrinthine Cliffs will still be there. It's hard to imagine a section of the world just "disappearing".

They have definitely made it sound like only the Zephyr Sanctum will be leaving. They've said nothing about the cliffs going away.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
They have definitely made it sound like only the Zephyr Sanctum will be leaving. They've said nothing about the cliffs going away.

I am fairly certain Labyrinthine Cliffs will still be there. It's hard to imagine a section of the world just "disappearing".
Oh, so we don't actually know this one way or the other yet? Iiiiiiinteresting.

Man I cannot wait to dive back into this game (and gaming in general). Definitely being reminded of all the boons of living alone (or at least with a gaming-minded significant other) this week.
 
Oh, so we don't actually know this one way or the other yet? Iiiiiiinteresting.

Man I cannot wait to dive back into this game (and gaming in general). Definitely being reminded of all the boons of living alone (or at least with a gaming-minded significant other) this week.

To clarify a bit, The zone is primarily the cliffs but at the top of the cliffs, is the Airship that they live on. So they could just remove the airship and the NPCs from the cliff if they chose to... but then it would be like Southsun 1.0 all over again.
 

Lunar15

Member
To clarify a bit, The zone is primarily the cliffs but at the top of the cliffs, is the Airship that they live on. So they could just remove the airship and the NPCs from the cliff if they chose to... but then it would be like Southsun 1.0 all over again.

That's almost entirely what it's going to be like, assuming they leave the area.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
I'd rather have the empty something than nothing, but maybe they've learned to put something there as the major event progresses with the airship leaving.
 

Lunar15

Member
I'd rather have the empty something than nothing, but maybe they've learned to put something there as the major event progresses with the airship leaving.

Well, the Belcher's Bluff grandmaster hangs out in a bar in the cliffs, since the minigame is permanent, I guess they'll have to leave him there.
 
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