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Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks

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Retro

Member
Thanks for all of the responses guys.

I'm going to stick with it for a while--I'll put in 20 hours at least before I make any solid "boring for me" judgments--I was mainly curious if anything really just cracks open at a certain point.

Otherwise, I feel like it's kind of front-loaded. (And I'm not sure why there are EIGHTY levels!)

The original plan was to completely remove levels, but the initial response from testers was too negative; it's just too big of a change for most MMO Players to get their heads around, the lack of shiny carrots and whatnot.

Don't worry about levels. Do what's fun. You'll be surprised how much you've leveled without noticing, and how little your level impacts your gameplay. I was tearing around Snowden Drifts last night and noticed I was taking on Level 22 mobs despite being only level 16. It was a tad harder than usual, but level really means nothing.

As for frontloading everything, it's nice to know exactly what my class is capable of the minute I sit down with it, instead of waiting half or even all of the leveling process to get a class defining skill and having to learn everything all over again. I know exactly what my Warrior is going to do with a Rifle from Level 1, so now that I'm level 60-something, I don't even think; I just do.
 

etiolate

Banned
I just bought the game and have been playing a bit this week and am running up against the same thing that happened last time (during beta weekends).

I enjoy the first few levels because the combat is actually fun (for an MMO that is) and it's enjoyable to just swap out weapons and get all your skills learned with the weapons, but then as soon as I learn all the weapon skills I get bored and start a new class.

So, since I've never even made it past 7 and this game has a level 80 cap (keep in mind, I have 4 or 5 level 85s in WoW, so I'm not a stranger to MMO leveling), can anyone tell me what compels you to keep going? I may just be burned out on MMOs, which isn't the fault of GW2.

Do skills get more interesting? I dunno. Just looking for a, "Oh, it totally opens up at level X and starts to feel less grindy and more dynamic; you really do just need to play more!" assurance.

Also, warrior or guardian? =)

I tried thief last night and abhorred it.

There are still the utility skills which depending on your class can provide more playstyles and options. There are traits and most traits only emphasize certain playstyles, but some can offer specialization that can't be done without traits. You then have your elites that unlock at level 30.


Beyond that, there's more to learn about how each skill works for new players than people realize. I just leveled a Guardian to 10 and have been unlocking most of my skills. I still have focus to unlock, but I've been very effective with Guardian and leveling faster than my Engy or Mesmer. I think part of the reason is that I better understand combat now and how to use skills. I run Hammer + anything that creates combo fields to smash my Hammer in. This creates great AOE for me and allows me to play a 'drop aoe field and smash it' sort of playstyle. My Engineer didn't really open up until I got more utility skills and toolbelts. It's still not fully functioning at level 17 due to not being able to reach certain utilities like elixir gun.

On my Mesmer, Sword MH took awhile to effectively learn how to melee weave. It's a melee playstyle that weaves in and out a lot, sort of theif or rogue like. Early on, I would just leap in and Blurred Frenzy and that's it. Now I drop Duelist,a ethereal field, leap in to combo finish and immobilize, then stun with the pistol, and either finish with sword hits or shatter. With Feedback, I'm normally sticking that on a range mob and my Duelist on the mob, and then fighting in melee versus another mob with an illusion that I'm shuffling around to see if the mob will hit the illusion instead of me. I might then switch to my other weapon, say a staff, drop a Chaos Storm and iWarlock, have it hit once and see how much life is left. I might pop chaos armor, go back in with sword to finish the ranged mob, let the phantasms kill it, or shatter them to kill it. I can spec my traits to drop confusion in glamour fields and stack confusion on shatters, allowing me to play a glam-trap playstyle, or a power/condition damage playstyle with shatters.

I don't buy into the idea that you've completed your character at early levels. It takes awhile to fully exploit the combat system and figure out how traits work. I didn't start using mantras until last week when I discovered that mantra healing and mantra of pain lets me push out a 2.8k PBAOE heal at lvl 80 every 8 seconds.


edit: All this said, traits are not providing the flavor options they alluded to so long ago. There needs to be less straight vertical traits and more horizontal options. For a Mesmer, the Focus trait that causes focus skills to reflect is a good example of this, as is the Healing Mantra which provides extra functionalities to a set of skills. If you notice, a lot of the Mesmer build ideas and builds I talk about in here hover around traits that offer more flavor. Glam-trap is based on traits that cause glamour to cause blindness and confusion, and then another trait that causes your blinds to also apply confusion. This offers more functionality to Glamour skills, while also making things like Scepter #2 another Confusion application. The Sword trait is good, but boring in design, so I don't talk about it much. Same with the Greatsword trait or Phantasm damage increasing traits.
 

desverger

Member
Thanks for all of the responses guys.

I'm going to stick with it for a while--I'll put in 20 hours at least before I make any solid "boring for me" judgments--I was mainly curious if anything really just cracks open at a certain point.

Otherwise, I feel like it's kind of front-loaded. (And I'm not sure why there are EIGHTY levels!)

For me the game clicked when I stopped thinking about leveling and just ran into a camp of ogres and started shooting around like mad with my longbow. Don't let those 80 levels intimidate you, it's definitely more about the journey than the destination.

That said, some people are content to leveling to 80 and stopping at that, a lot of my friends did just that.

I've fallen into a small circle of friends who does a few dungeons daily. Just got my AC greatsword for my Mesmer today. Feels good man!
 
This is my problem with Warrior right now. They're probably the most balanced class in terms of doing any role. They're one of my favorite classes right now.

There's just one niggling issue: They're the only class in the game that's average at everything. Every other class has something they're great at and then something they're horrible at. So in tPvP a Warrior has to spec for a very narrow use in order to get their abilities high enough, and even then they're only brought along to be a roamer or team fight extra.

I still love Warriors. For me right now, they have the best flow, especially with the halved weapon switching trait (running Sword/Shield or Warhorn with Longbow secondary). Warriors may only find use because of their balanced state, so I've been experimenting with that, at least.

wait... Engineer has something they're really great at? What is it, because I'd really like to get on that, whatever it is.

also, what's the thing they aren't so good at?
 
You guys are great! Thanks for the thoughtful responses (that don't seem dogmatic or offended).

I found this leveling map (just because I'm not really familiar with the world or how to travel through it...): http://gw2.mmorpg-life.com/interactive-maps/

Any thoughts? The "personal story" doesn't interest me, so I would prefer to just go through from zone-to-zone and try to start enjoying the game for what it is, now that I know there isn't really a huge epiphany of skill diversity that is going to drop on my head.

I'm also still trying to decide between Guardian and Warrior. It seems that the warrior recommendations I'm seeing around the different sites are based on ranged damage with a rifle--is that the strength of the class, or is it equally good at "opening up with a rifle for some strong ranged aoe, then weapon swapping over to a 2h and wading in"?
 

Ken

Member
The personal story is still worth doing for the gear they give you and the large amounts of XP you get.

I prefer Warrior to Guardian in PvE but that's just me. I like having a ton of low cooldown, condition removal skills.
 

Piecake

Member
I just bought the game and have been playing a bit this week and am running up against the same thing that happened last time (during beta weekends).

I enjoy the first few levels because the combat is actually fun (for an MMO that is) and it's enjoyable to just swap out weapons and get all your skills learned with the weapons, but then as soon as I learn all the weapon skills I get bored and start a new class.

So, since I've never even made it past 7 and this game has a level 80 cap (keep in mind, I have 4 or 5 level 85s in WoW, so I'm not a stranger to MMO leveling), can anyone tell me what compels you to keep going? I may just be burned out on MMOs, which isn't the fault of GW2.

Do skills get more interesting? I dunno. Just looking for a, "Oh, it totally opens up at level X and starts to feel less grindy and more dynamic; you really do just need to play more!" assurance.

Also, warrior or guardian? =)

I tried thief last night and abhorred it.

Seems like a lot of people answered you (didnt read), but ill throw my two cents in. Shit changes around level 15 since mobs actually can kill you. You actually have to pay attention, dodge when needed, and use your skills when prompted. That is what makes it fun, the challenge and you having to react to enemies. Its not just you pressing a bunch of attack buttons and them dieing.

Sure, you could cheese it if you get all decked out in gear and dont tackle a mob higher than your level, but if you are finding it too easy, just start killing things higher than you. You'll get a better chance of loot, good exp for heart quests, and just mroe fun

Also, the big draw of PvE is exploration and DEs. At level 7 i really doubt you got into that much, so id wait and try to give that a shot as well

You guys are great! Thanks for the thoughtful responses (that don't seem dogmatic or offended).

I found this leveling map (just because I'm not really familiar with the world or how to travel through it...): http://gw2.mmorpg-life.com/interactive-maps/

Any thoughts? The "personal story" doesn't interest me, so I would prefer to just go through from zone-to-zone and try to start enjoying the game for what it is, now that I know there isn't really a huge epiphany of skill diversity that is going to drop on my head.

I'm also still trying to decide between Guardian and Warrior. It seems that the warrior recommendations I'm seeing around the different sites are based on ranged damage with a rifle--is that the strength of the class, or is it equally good at "opening up with a rifle for some strong ranged aoe, then weapon swapping over to a 2h and wading in"?

If you easily get bored with your classes abilities, i wouldnt go warrior. They are very straight-forward and simple. I gave up on my warrior because i just found the class dull. Go guardian. Its more interesting. If you really want interesting go engineer or mesmer. Both kinda suck butt in the early levels though, but get damn interesting latter on
 

Piecake

Member
wait... Engineer has something they're really great at? What is it, because I'd really like to get on that, whatever it is.

also, what's the thing they aren't so good at?

Grenade engineers are by far the best vulnerability stackers in the game. Also their ranged condition AoE is excellent

They suck at being bad

Taking it a step further, I think weapon sets should have 10-15 skills you can choose from (less for 1 hand/offhand) freely.


Id love to see that

15 for 2 hand. 10 for MH and 5 for OH

Perfect
 

etiolate

Banned
I don't think they'd do individually swapable skills for weapons, but instead have maybe two or three sets for each weapon. The weapon skills are designed to function within the rest of the skills they provide, so you could design a new set that functions together in a different way. Say a longbow set for Warriors that was made for single target sniping and stuns. A greatsword set for Mesmer that was melee based.

Of course, the expansion will add new weapons for each class (most likely), so any per weapon expansion would probably happen after that.
 

Audioboxer

Member
I really like the Norn female models, females as they should be - The humans while having good animations, are a little too much "lookatmyhugetitsandperfectface".

The Norn males though.....
 

scosher

Member
Grenade engineers are by far the best vulnerability stackers in the game. Also their ranged condition AoE is excellent

They suck at being bad




Id love to see that

15 for 2 hand. 10 for MH and 5 for OH

Perfect

Technically, it would be 15 for 2H, 9 for MH, and 6 for OH :p

But yeah, I feel like this would be the natural progression to go in expansions. They aren't going to get us excited with just some new utility skills, most of which have such long cooldowns (except for Engy), that they really don't define a build the way your weapons do.
 

RealMeat

Banned
I just read this interesting bit on the official forums:

"NYS is an Asian guild. As you can guess from the few English words and numbers in their official site, they stated:
They have NYS1 with 500 members full, NYS2 with 500 members full, NYS3 with over 300 members, NYS Champion over 200 members. And the fist sentence read: All members have already been transferred to Stormbluff Isle successfully.
On top of that, my previous guild (SDU) with over 60 active members followed NYS’s migration to SBI and all of them are now playing in SBI server now."

Sounds like quite an influx to SBI.

I wonder if this means we'll have people in WvW during NA's off-hours now. Could help a lot.
 

Ken

Member
Audίoboxer;43389840 said:
I really like the Norn female models, females as they should be - The humans while having good animations, are a little too much "lookatmyhugetitsandperfectface".

The Norn males though.....

The best. I want this as a title.

 
I'm confused, to make a Legendary weapon do I have to have the proper two crafting professions at 400 on the person who is making the legendary? Or can one character at 400 with one profession work with another character with a different profession at 400 to make the weapon?

Also, can I make Legendary weapon with one character to be used by a different character?
 
I'm confused, to make a Legendary weapon do I have to have the proper two crafting professions at 400 on the person who is making the legendary? Or can one character at 400 with one profession work with another character with a different profession at 400 to make the weapon?
The "gift" you need is account bound, so any alts can make it for your main.

Also, can I make Legendary weapon with one character to be used by a different character?
They're character bound right now I believe, but it's one of those things I'm sure Anet might change.
 

Proven

Member
wait... Engineer has something they're really great at? What is it, because I'd really like to get on that, whatever it is.

also, what's the thing they aren't so good at?

As someone else said, they're one of the classes good at stacking conditions and are really great at AoE. Turrets, grenades, mines, they all center around AoE stuff. The other thing they're really good at is CC and kiting. They have a ton of immobilizes, stuns, chills, knockbacks, etc.

Their weakness is defense. They need all of that control because they're not great at running away outside of builds that give constant swiftness. They're also terrible at condition removal. I think they have... two or three skills that remove stuff, and nothing I can recall that can wipe an entire stack at once.

They feel average at support. A lot of boons and stuff they give are to self only, but they do have ways to put out a consistent amount of healing. I just don't think it's all that strong.

One of the strongest Engineer builds in PvP right now is Teldo's Node Defender Engineer, and it depends on a lot of control options, like Smoke Bomb, and using traits to give constant vigor and swiftness so he can kite in circles long enough for his Big Bomb and Flamethrower knockback to get off cooldown.
 
"Their weakness is defense. They need all of that control because they're not great at running away outside of builds that give constant swiftness. They're also terrible at condition removal. I think they have... two or three skills that remove stuff, and nothing I can recall that can wipe an entire stack at once."


If you run an elixir build, you have quite a bit of condition removal with Cleansing Formula 409.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
I don't think they'd do individually swapable skills for weapons, but instead have maybe two or three sets for each weapon. The weapon skills are designed to function within the rest of the skills they provide, so you could design a new set that functions together in a different way. Say a longbow set for Warriors that was made for single target sniping and stuns. A greatsword set for Mesmer that was melee based.

Of course, the expansion will add new weapons for each class (most likely), so any per weapon expansion would probably happen after that.

For the record, I predict this is what will happen.
 

FillerB

Member
Their weakness is defense. They need all of that control because they're not great at running away outside of builds that give constant swiftness. They're also terrible at condition removal. I think they have... two or three skills that remove stuff, and nothing I can recall that can wipe an entire stack at once.

Cleansing Formula 409 + Any Elixer = bye bye conditions on throwing/using any elixer
Kit Refinement + Elixer Gun = bye bye conditions on switch / elixer gin skill 5
 

Piecake

Member
Cleansing Formula 409 + Any Elixer = bye bye conditions on throwing/using any elixer
Kit Refinement + Elixer Gun = bye bye conditions on switch / elixer gin skill 5

yea, kit refinement + elixir gun is godly. You pretty much need either that or cleaning formula, and since i dont spec into elixirs, kit refinement for me. The group condition removal it gives you is absurd.

As for boons, yea, engineer is a bit lacking. I actually think i am going to try out an engineer boon build though once i get a condition set (bit sick of the nade spam)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAq+E1tTXJvOSMqwnB9Iv1lvie8YIPZA;TYAqkMBJCymkLJZSA

With the runes and the the traits, i think it would be rather interesting. I guess i could always go FT for some absurd Might stacking, but would rather use the elixir gun and pistol and dont want to drop one of the elixir improvements for cleansing formula
 
Fuck ths fucking gam fuck ... hours in the que, finally in ... hours of drinking trying to stay focused and the fucking game crashes ...

I gave up after 2 hours que, as much as i hate the whole WvWvW shit i want to 100% my map and when am finally in the mood i can't play lol///
 

Proven

Member
Cleansing Formula 409 + Any Elixer = bye bye conditions on throwing/using any elixer
Kit Refinement + Elixer Gun = bye bye conditions on switch / elixer gin skill 5

Hardly anybody runs elixer builds then, because that's how I've beaten just about every single engineer. Cripple/Freeze/Root, stack some damage condition, then CC till beat.

Everyone has condition removal. It's when you have to trait for it to become decent or good that it's considered a weakness. The one thing about this game is that with traits+runes+sigils, everyone can get godly condition removal, so they got the balance on that at least right. That's why, even though Thieves have a skill that removes damage conditions while healing them, and a trait that removes conditions while in stealth, I beat them with bleed and burning anyway.

Classes considered great at condition removal at this point are Guardian (light fields), Elementalist (although not that great, as they still have to rely on traits), and Necro (although half of that is because smart use of Death Shroud can help you tank a lot).

Everyone else is at most decent before traiting. Rangers are borderline great (I'd swap Elementalist down to being decent and Ranger in the upper class if it was solely up to me; I've found myself bleed+burning too many out in WvW these days). Warriors have enough powerful utilities to not be completely abysmal, but along with Thief I'd put them on the bottom rung. If Mesmers didn't have god damn Null Field I'd put them down there as well.

But, I don't know the cooldown on Kit Refinement. If it's under 5 seconds, then it's much better than I thought. However, even if it's internal cooldown is 1 second, it isn't going to save you.

a small update.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Small-update/first#post480648

not sure they understand why people are giving up in wvw once someone gets crazy ahead.

hint: it's not because we can't cap anything.

There isn't much that can be done, honestly, with the way they'd want WvW to play out. They don't want to put in any artificial comeback mechanics, for the simple point that that was never the point of WvW. WvW isn't a competitive game, it's a fantasy war. They're going to keep leaving free transfers up so that guilds can move themselves around with ease, while hoping to outlast the damned bandwagoners. The best people to play with are the ones that don't give up after Sunday night, or are there for the fun regardless of score.
 

Forkball

Member
I have a feeling a lot of stuff has been held back because of expansions.

That could easily be the case, but I think the game has a ton of content... until you get to 80. Then it's like "uh, so what do I do now?" I like WVW but the penalties are greater than the reward, and I'm not a fan of dungeons.
 

Retro

Member
I don't think they'd do individually swapable skills for weapons, but instead have maybe two or three sets for each weapon. The weapon skills are designed to function within the rest of the skills they provide, so you could design a new set that functions together in a different way. Say a longbow set for Warriors that was made for single target sniping and stuns. A greatsword set for Mesmer that was melee based.

Of course, the expansion will add new weapons for each class (most likely), so any per weapon expansion would probably happen after that.

I don't think multiple sets per weapon will happen. You'd lose the entire flavor of what the weapon was built to do, e.g. Warrior Longbow is mostly about AOE and burn damage with some support thrown in. It's great for large groups (especially in dungeons where the support really shines), and gives the class some much-needed AOE. That flavor should stay, and entirely new flavors should be introduced via new weapons (for example, your 'single target sniping and stun' weapon could be a crossbow or javelin).

I think a more reasonable solution is to do away with a bunch of the generic 'mathy' traits ("Gain +x", "10% chance of y", "Increases z by 10") and replace them with traits that will change one weapon skill. Allow them to be switched on the fly like Major Traits, and have skills for multiple weapons per slot so you don't end up painted into a corner (e.g only having a new skill for Greatsword means you're stuck with a Greatsword). These new skills would be built to compliment the trait line's flavor and established playstyle, and because they aren't 5 new skills would be easier to balance.

For example, the Warrior's Discipline line deals heavily with Adrenaline, so I'd have some of the new weapon skills play on that;

  • Attacks that are "mini-bursts" that grow more effective based on how much adrenaline you have.
    - Apply additional stacks of boons or conditions.
    - Projectiles that bounce to additional foes (Throw Axe, for example).​
  • Attacks that generate more Adrenaline than the usual 1 strike per attack.
    - Especially if certain conditions are met, like hitting multiple foes at once, the amount of health you have, number of conditions on your enemies, etc.​
  • Skills that do nothing other than generate adrenaline (sort of a mini-Berserker's Stance).
    - A skill that activates a stance where damage received generates adrenaline, like a short duration on-demand Embrace the Pain.​
  • Skills that use Adrenaline as a resource in a completely different way.
    - Enter a defensive stance that reflects enemy damage, but costs a chunk of Adrenaline each time. Lasts until cancelled or adrenaline hits zero.
    - A skill with no cooldown but uses Adrenaline instead (sort of as mini-initiative).
    - A skill you 'charge up' by holding down / hitting the attack, then unleashing by releasing / pressing again. The longer the charge, the more adrenaline used.​
They need not even be radically new skills; they could just be new effects applied to the same skill, using the same animations (though new animations or at least visual effects would be best so you can read what your opponents are doing in PVP/WvW).

Seems more reasonable to me than an entirely new batch of skills; easier to balance, implement, and maintain the currently existing flavor / playstyle. Dumping in entirely new skill sets just seems like a knee jerk reaction to "I want more cool buttons to press" whining.

Thief definitely needs more weapons.

I see Off-Hand Sword thrown around a lot. I've seen people suggest Staff too, and I actually happen to like that one. It works for the Ninja Turtles, right?

I have a feeling a lot of stuff has been held back because of expansions.

Said on the eve of a huge content patch.

Colin also mentioned a big patch in November, and of course there's Christmas stuff to come as well. They've spent a lot of their time since launch fixing bugs (as expected), but it feels like things have stabilized and we're moving out of that phase and into the awesome post-launch support 'service' they've been talking about.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
What the fuck did they do to the character loading in WvW? I see two enemies in front of me, run up, and all of a sudden its like twenty!
 

Teknoman

Member
Hmm...keep getting connection error every time I try to update. It's been trying to reconnect for the past 10 minutes...so i'm not really sure whats up.
 

Proven

Member
That could easily be the case, but I think the game has a ton of content... until you get to 80. Then it's like "uh, so what do I do now?" I like WVW but the penalties are greater than the reward, and I'm not a fan of dungeons.
This is another thing I don't get. Unless you're being spawn camped, I always make it out of WvW with more money than I came in with. Even when I'm playing solo and rage quit after getting ganked.

Loot, however, is really bad unless you're on siege equipment or running in a small group. I feel like there's a cap in the amount of people that can get a loot bag off of one enemy. Something like the first five people to reach the damage threshold for experience or something. While everyone might get experience, so that low level characters stand a chance, if you're only looking for badges of honor it's less efficient to follow the zerg.
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
That could easily be the case, but I think the game has a ton of content... until you get to 80. Then it's like "uh, so what do I do now?" I like WVW but the penalties are greater than the reward, and I'm not a fan of dungeons.
Really? You completed everything going to up 80? Guess I'm just an oddball. My world completion rate is something like 47% and I've only done one dungeon - AC story. I've been 80 for 2 weeks now.

Granted, I only get to put in 3-4 hours a week now.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
So I'm going to make it my long term goal in this game to get Twilight. I keep running into different recipes on the internet, does anyone know if there's a correct one? Also, do I need to make it on the character that will use it? Or is it account bound?
 
I have 4 crafting principles max..

Armor.
Artificer.
Leatherworking.
Weaponsmith.

Artificer cost the most, 4g, didn't have the mats and didn't feel like gathering it..
 
Loot, however, is really bad unless you're on siege equipment or running in a small group. I feel like there's a cap in the amount of people that can get a loot bag off of one enemy. Something like the first five people to reach the damage threshold for experience or something. While everyone might get experience, so that low level characters stand a chance, if you're only looking for badges of honor it's less efficient to follow the zerg.

I've gotten quite a bit of loot just from hitting people a few times while they're already downed and being finished.

It seems like loot drops less when you're in a big zerg hitting 1-2 people, but in fights between two large groups I still get a decent number of drops. It seems like you just have to get a couple of good shots off on someone to be considered for loot.
 

Proven

Member
I've gotten quite a bit of loot just from hitting people a few times while they're already downed and being finished.

It seems like loot drops less when you're in a big zerg hitting 1-2 people, but in fights between two large groups I still get a decent number of drops. It seems like you just have to get a couple of good shots off on someone to be considered for loot.
That used to be true for me, but lately while I've still been getting the experience, I don't see as much loot from large battles. I feel like I need to lead the charge more...
 

etiolate

Banned
I used to profit from a WvWvW run, but lately I've been lucky to come out even. My bag drops have been few and far between, even though I kill people 10:1 to my deaths.

I wish they changed from loot bag drops to a NPC that keeps track of your kills and then you visit it to receive loot bags and badges.
 
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