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Guild Wars 2 |OT4| The only subscription you need is this thread.
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Coriolanus
Banned
Then you will soon find the joys of having to tell the pugs to "STOP TAKING THE FREAKING LIGHTNING HAMMER".
Also, if you havent tried it yet, turn autotarget off, find a corner, kite a veteran to it, and press 4 while facing the corner and untargetted, then 3.
Should I really refrain from swiping your conjured weapons though? Do eles really believe their optimal rotation is swinging Lightning Hammer until out of charges, then repeating with the spare, then repeating that sequence? If LH is so great (and it is), then wouldn't the best plan be for the ele plus another party member to spam both LHs, then use all of their own cooldown skills until the LHs are available again?
I will remorselessly pick up your conjured weapons until convinced otherwise.
I will remorselessly pick up your conjured weapons until convinced otherwise.
LumpOfCole
Member
i am groot
i am groot
That's awesome. God I cannot wait for that movie!
Kos Luftar
Member
If you do not want to think about Builds too much.
http://www.metabattle.com/
http://www.metabattle.com/
shysaursoft
Member
Hah, their Thief PvE "meta" build just links to the dulfy one.
EDIT: And their Engineer builds are just the current Wolveneer ones. Not much "meta" to this, they're just linking to the "popular" builds.
But it is a convenient resource for people who just want to plug and play, nothing wrong with that.
Odd how many of those links were purple instead of blue even though I've never been to the site.
shysaursoft
Member
The site is just acting as a user-submitted aggregate of whatever builds are currently considered "most optimal" for a specific task. If it means I see more three-kit Engineers running around in Celestial, I'm not complaining.
But I wonder if eventually Anet shouldn't just incorporate this into the game as a "suggestions" tab on the trait screen, once they have save/load in of skills and traits.
But I wonder if eventually Anet shouldn't just incorporate this into the game as a "suggestions" tab on the trait screen, once they have save/load in of skills and traits.
I wouldn't want these builds incorporated into the game itself because (1) it goes against my definition of "metagame," and (2) I'm not convinced all of these builds are optimal or even good.
Sure the tPvP builds are meta because they've been forged from the crucible of competition (and curated continuously on Reddit and elsewhere). But I suspect the PvE builds are questionable and I know the WvW builds are dubious.
Sure the tPvP builds are meta because they've been forged from the crucible of competition (and curated continuously on Reddit and elsewhere). But I suspect the PvE builds are questionable and I know the WvW builds are dubious.
shysaursoft
Member
But *you* don't get to decide what is and isn't meta, only the popular guilds with the fastest dungeon speedclears do.
Though, in all seriousness, I wonder if GAF shouldn't create a list of basic 'here are some solid builds for each class for each game type' lists, to help new players.
You jest but to define a meta we must first decide a metric for success. I don't personally like time as this metric, but I understand why it's so. Thus my real quibble with defining a PvE meta is I doubt their sample sizes and methodologies. Counting Ws and Ls is much cleaner.But *you* don't get to decide what is and isn't meta, only the popular guilds with the fastest dungeon speedclears do.
I'm not against this but it's unnecessary because you can get by with shaky builds for every profession just fine in most of PvE and WvW.
shysaursoft
Member
I find the entire concept of a bunch of people trying to claim what the "meta" is of something, laughable. And I do laugh at it. The entire premise of "meta" used to be about emergent tactics that evolved naturally in tournaments, not "the meta is X because everyone is running X because someone said X is the best way to do it".
Sure, but that's ignoring the point: people will always go google 'best build for engineer for pve' because a) they don't want to bother thinking it up for themselves or b) they assume it's expected of them - and that assumption is fair because look at how many people will scream at you if you're running a weird build and say "just go google how to play properly christ".
I think a GAF Build Guide could be useful as a training/teaching tool, if nothing else.
That burst Ranger seems to be pretty much what I run, only I put 5 points to get Natural Vigor instead of Fortifying Bond. In fractals I have to swap out quickening Zephyr for Stone Signet and trait for cooldown because being invincible for 6 seconds is far too useful. Or maybe I'm too unskilled to go without it. Regular dungeons it's not as needed. I've been running Ranger runes since day 1.
That sustained damage Ranger looks super similar to Brazil's from DnT, except for weapons (Brazil swaps to a greatsword.). I've tried it, I guess I just don't really like Sic em due to pet reliance, and would rather have Signet of the Wild be my damage boost since it also provides stability.
Both swap between sword/axe and sword/warhorn, but generally I like to have range on hand so I'll do axe/horn instead. Obviously staying on sword is more damaging but sometimes you just need range for a few seconds to heal up.
Really surprised their frontline build takes Soften the Fall instead of Shared Anguish, and I think Emphatic Bond isn't as useful as Bark Skin. Looks like the support varient takes bark skin. None of the WvW builds take Muddy Terrain or Entangle, hmm.
That sustained damage Ranger looks super similar to Brazil's from DnT, except for weapons (Brazil swaps to a greatsword.). I've tried it, I guess I just don't really like Sic em due to pet reliance, and would rather have Signet of the Wild be my damage boost since it also provides stability.
Both swap between sword/axe and sword/warhorn, but generally I like to have range on hand so I'll do axe/horn instead. Obviously staying on sword is more damaging but sometimes you just need range for a few seconds to heal up.
Really surprised their frontline build takes Soften the Fall instead of Shared Anguish, and I think Emphatic Bond isn't as useful as Bark Skin. Looks like the support varient takes bark skin. None of the WvW builds take Muddy Terrain or Entangle, hmm.
I'm going to regret engaging on this, but just because people have bastardized the term "metagame" does not mean it lacks value as a concept. Such is the case with many words.
So I googled 'best build for engineer for pve' per your suggestion and found a build guide containing 4 different engi builds. As a new player I would have no idea which one to pick. How would your guide be different? Do certain builds exist as training/teaching tools, or should players just go right to the best build and learn it?
Huge red flags that expose that website as nothing more than "aggregating" the work of others without critical analysis.
shysaursoft
Member
I'm not trying to change the world or create the ultimate solution to 'what build should I play at 80' problem. I'm talking about gaffers helping gaffers, without having to repeatedly answer the 'I just hit 80 as an X what should I try for traits' over and over. Just a central resource of gafguild curated builds that we think are good ideas, with a small explanation why. Yes, it would duplicate a lot of what Dulfy's guides already do, and the billion youtubes, but that's them, and this is this forum, where we help each other.
Or, y'know. Just fuck'em and let them google? I don't really care.
We can just tell everyone in the future that asks in this OT to go to http://www.metabattle.com/ if they have questions.
EDIT: Okay, that sounds a lot harsher than I mean it. I just figured that if people, even here on GAF, were going to go look at sites for 'meta' builds anyway, why not have our own curated list of builds that we think are good for either new players, or new level 80s who aren't familiar with the profession.
Never said it lacked value as a concept. I said the term has been misappropriated and now means something different.
Dog Problems
Banned
If anyone gets a chance, could you invite barkinruday.2613 to the guild? It's someone I met who seems friendly and is looking for a more active guild. They asked if they could join ours.
gamergirl85
Member
Hey that's fine. I didn't want to WP and travel that far again since the vista was right there. =p
Coriolanus
Banned
Yes, eles are better. Reason is a thing called attunement. They will get at the very least +10% damage (+20% if they dumped all of two points in water) above you with it, on top of extra arcane ferocity, and unlike you, they will be severely gimped in damage if deprived of hammers and running hammer spec, whereas you will still be perfectly able to pump out very solid damage with your own weapons. Not only that, the LH is a hammer. How many people run dungeons specced dps hammer?
This only applies to LH, tho. For FGS, bow and the like, use away. Additionally, LH's only become really relevant in fights that do not allow optimal FGS use, for melting reasons.
The optimal rotation isn't as simple as "afk autoattack LH", btw.
Coriolanus
Banned
I roll staff. Too lazy to do the scepter hammer rotation. ;D
hockeypuck
Member
Huh, never knew I wasn't supposed to pick up the hammers. ======* The more you know
I've also never seen this either. Wouldn't you try to place the weapons away from the general combat area, use yours up, go get another, and come back? Especially because FGS can twirlywhirl back into melee.
I make my own builds, they may not be optimal, but they're fun, and that's what matters.
Forgemannnn
Metal Gear GAF
Embrace of Sorrows
check it out.
Complistic
Member
I get upset when my teammates don't pick up my frostbow/LH.
Use them! I can make more.
Use them! I can make more.
its worse when you drop'em IN FRONT OF THEM.
its like " YO, what are you waiting for? an invitation? "
FML. I don't even know how but my drink just spilt everywhere. After logging off I had a sip and thought I put it down on my coaster but I wasn't really paying attention.
I think I placed it on the edge of it, and because the glass I was using was kinda tall, and the coasters edge kinda high it must've given it enough leverage to dive at me. Thankfully it wasn't above my PC! A few bits of paper/letters are ruined, and I'll need a new mouse mat but other than that I was kinda lucky considering how much I spilt.
Anyway it's time for bed because tomorrow is UPDATE DAY!
Clever me.
Anyway it's time for bed because tomorrow is UPDATE DAY!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Spider Queen really needs elementalist
Ok, here's my breakdown of Drake F2 skills. All tests were on heavy golems with zero points in Beastmastery.
Ice, Salamander, and Reef Drakes all share a 250 range cone attack. If all ticks land on 5 targets, that's ~11k total damage. Of course the Salamander and Reef Drakes add burning and confusion damage respectively while Ice brings soft CC. My concern with these has always been the windup- 1.5 seconds, just a quarter short of Killshot. It's literally longer than it takes mobs to walk out of range once activated, but I'm sure with stacking you can land it. However I consider these nonviable for PvP/WvW.
River and Marsh Drakes share a bouncing projectile that strikes up to 3 enemies 5 times each. The River F2 is 600 range and pure damage, for a total of ~10.7k. The Marsh F2 is 900 range and less damage (~6.5k) but brings poison. But most importantly it's much easier to connect with these attacks. I would bring a Marsh Drake if I can ever get a Nomad set for my ranger and go running with the zerg. But for single-target DPS the River Drake is best of all with ~3500 damage.
Ice, Salamander, and Reef Drakes all share a 250 range cone attack. If all ticks land on 5 targets, that's ~11k total damage. Of course the Salamander and Reef Drakes add burning and confusion damage respectively while Ice brings soft CC. My concern with these has always been the windup- 1.5 seconds, just a quarter short of Killshot. It's literally longer than it takes mobs to walk out of range once activated, but I'm sure with stacking you can land it. However I consider these nonviable for PvP/WvW.
River and Marsh Drakes share a bouncing projectile that strikes up to 3 enemies 5 times each. The River F2 is 600 range and pure damage, for a total of ~10.7k. The Marsh F2 is 900 range and less damage (~6.5k) but brings poison. But most importantly it's much easier to connect with these attacks. I would bring a Marsh Drake if I can ever get a Nomad set for my ranger and go running with the zerg. But for single-target DPS the River Drake is best of all with ~3500 damage.
gamergirl85
Member
Only you Braxzy, only you! =p
WATTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Coriolanus
Banned
Hrm, this LH discussion made me curious and now i wanna test a coupla things. Need an ele or warr or guard to hit the mist golems with me.
Specifically, i wanna test how much class traits affect summoned weapons. Wiki sez some do, others don't. Wanna see how far warrior and guardian gs/hammer traits go with them. Any volunteers?
In other news, I wasn't aware that you could craft ever single elemental weapon. Shame about Mjolnir, the hammer, costing +- 1 thou gold to make. New goal get!
Specifically, i wanna test how much class traits affect summoned weapons. Wiki sez some do, others don't. Wanna see how far warrior and guardian gs/hammer traits go with them. Any volunteers?
In other news, I wasn't aware that you could craft ever single elemental weapon. Shame about Mjolnir, the hammer, costing +- 1 thou gold to make. New goal get!
shysaursoft
Member
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